Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 - 12/31/08

[Kermit]

Yee Haw!

Urban Cowboy!

[ldstlou]

ldstlou
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #283 on: December 29, 2008, 10:20:17 PM »
I have real problem with Kermit.
/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.280

Idstlou,
I am not going to do things or say things that have any agenda other then to expose the truth.
I am sorry you choose to interpret what you are told differently, but I do not. I have not taken
anything out of context. I have not violated any agreements. I HAVE given information of a crime
and cover-up to the appropriate individuals. I will not belabor your opinion of me.

I just keep going back to your post about how you "single handily" uncovered the cover-up or something to that affect.  Sounds like a bit of an ego trip to me...at the  expense of others.
I have no idea who the "former admin" is. Don't know either if the "former admin" is still a Freebird or a disgruntled ex-Freebird. I am under the impression that you did agree to confidentiality in regards to what was spoken on the Freebird's board...and if that is true...you DID break a confidentiality agreement.
I forwarded the post by the "former admin" to Kyle and Jug...I will wait for their response thank you.

From your post above:  I have no idea who the "former admin" is. Don't know either if the "former admin" is still a Freebird or a disgruntled ex-Freebird.

The answer is NEITHER.  Not a Freebird anymore.  Not disgruntled.

I am puzzled about your motive for questioning a group of people intent on uncovering the truth of what happened to Natalee.  The Freebirds' mission has been clear - answers for the family and justice for Natalee.  Nothing more, nothing less.

so the person who wrote the letter is no longer a Freebird? Then why state I received this from the Freebirds as though they are indorsing the letter? It said "Received this from Natalee's Freebirds" . So was the letter from Natalee's Freebirds or a former member..that is all I am asking.

[Kermit]

ldstlou.If Jug & Kyle are aware of all of this why bother them with what they already know?Is this strictly about the Confidentiality Agreement?You seem to have a vested  interest in the disemination of the information!Correct me if i'm wrong.

I have stated over and over what it is about for me. The kid busted his butt on a ship looking for Natalee...all of the crew did...and to slander them now..is just plain disrespectful. Like them or not, agree with how the search went or not....that is one thing...but to insinuate that these people were in on a conspiracy with Aruban officials in my mind...in MY opinion...is just wrong. I am entitled to my opinion also.

No one is slandering them.

The truth of what has taken place has been exposed however.
Which means the Aruban's have evidence of what was inside the cage/trap, Kyle admitted he has photos of that and tried to sell them.

[Keepthefaith]

ldstlou.If Jug & Kyle are aware of all of this why bother them with what they already know?Is this strictly about the Confidentiality Agreement?You seem to have a vested  interest in the disemination of the information!Correct me if i'm wrong.

I have stated over and over what it is about for me. The kid busted his butt on a ship looking for Natalee...all of the crew did...and to slander them now..is just plain disrespectful. Like them or not, agree with how the search went or not....that is one thing...but to insinuate that these people were in on a conspiracy with Aruban officials in my mind...in MY opinion...is just wrong. I am entitled to my opinion also.

Kyle's own words are the problem!So he's slandering himself?

[Kermit]

ldstlou
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #283 on: December 29, 2008, 10:20:17 PM »
I have real problem with Kermit.
/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.280

Idstlou,
I am not going to do things or say things that have any agenda other then to expose the truth.
I am sorry you choose to interpret what you are told differently, but I do not. I have not taken
anything out of context. I have not violated any agreements. I HAVE given information of a crime
and cover-up to the appropriate individuals. I will not belabor your opinion of me.

I just keep going back to your post about how you "single handily" uncovered the cover-up or something to that affect.  Sounds like a bit of an ego trip to me...at the  expense of others.
I have no idea who the "former admin" is. Don't know either if the "former admin" is still a Freebird or a disgruntled ex-Freebird. I am under the impression that you did agree to confidentiality in regards to what was spoken on the Freebird's board...and if that is true...you DID break a confidentiality agreement.
I forwarded the post by the "former admin" to Kyle and Jug...I will wait for their response thank you.

From your post above:  I have no idea who the "former admin" is. Don't know either if the "former admin" is still a Freebird or a disgruntled ex-Freebird.

The answer is NEITHER.  Not a Freebird anymore.  Not disgruntled.

I am puzzled about your motive for questioning a group of people intent on uncovering the truth of what happened to Natalee.  The Freebirds' mission has been clear - answers for the family and justice for Natalee.  Nothing more, nothing less.

so the person who wrote the letter is no longer a Freebird? Then why state I received this from the Freebirds as though they are indorsing the letter? It said "Received this from Natalee's Freebirds" . So was the letter from Natalee's Freebirds or a former member..that is all I am asking.

As I read the letter, it stated it was the former administrator.

[crazybabyborg]

I rarely have anything new to add to this thread. I do come to learn new things, and I come because I care about this case.

I have something to say today and it's this:

Who gives a rat's behind about ANYBODY breaking a "confidentiality" when the pursuit of truth as to what happened to Natalee and who is responsible is what's at stake???

If anyone, for any reason, would feel the need to put up a hurdle called "confidential" between the truth and answering those questions, then they have a problem; a BIG one!

No one should be involved in answering those questions who has any reservations about following the truth wherever that leads. Had ALE done that to begin with, this case would have been readily solved and Justice for Natalee would have long ago been attained.

If anyone would withold relevent information, or even possible relevent information, hostage for any reason, then they need to sign up to work for the Aruban authorities. They'll be quite at home there.

That's my opinion.

[jen3560]

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some justice!

[ldstlou]

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's family are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?

In the example above would a confidentiality agreement make any difference to you?  It would not to me.

So the FBI were informed, JQK was informed, Beth was informed according to Kermit. I don't see them going after Kyle...so why is Kermit here on SM going after Kyle and the crew of the Persistence?

[crazybabyborg]

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some justice!

W-E-L-C-O-M-E!!!        If I had a red carpet, I'd roll it out for you!!!

[Keepthefaith]

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some justice!

Thank you Jen as well as th Freebirds.If Kyle has mislead the Freebirds as well as Monkey's.Why and who is continuing to defend him..Kyle is more then welcome to answer questions for himself...Correct me if i'm wrong!TIA

[Tamikosmom]

ldstlou.If Jug & Kyle are aware of all of this why bother them with what they already know?Is this strictly about the Confidentiality Agreement?You seem to have a vested  interest in the disemination of the information!Correct me if i'm wrong.

I have stated over and over what it is about for me. The kid busted his butt on a ship looking for Natalee...all of the crew did...and to slander them now..is just plain disrespectful. Like them or not, agree with how the search went or not....that is one thing...but to insinuate that these people were in on a conspiracy with Aruban officials in my mind...in MY opinion...is just wrong. I am entitled to my opinion also.

Kyle is not a kid.  He is a husband and he is a father who held a professional position on the Persistence.

Lou ... please read Kyles own words.  I have posted them over and over and over again.  It is Kyle and ... only Kyle who insinuates ... nobody else.  Hey ... not only Monkey or on Freebird was on that ship.  It is only Kyle who can offer a perspective.

I only wish Kyle's perspective was not shared with either a private or a public forum.  I wish it had been shared with the FBI and the family immediately upon arriving home to the States from Aruba.

Janet

[ldstlou]

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some justice!

So then you are no longer a Freebird..is that correct? So then to say that your letter is from the "Freebird's"..is that incorrect? Did the current members endorse your letter?

[Kermit]

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's family are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?

In the example above would a confidentiality agreement make any difference to you?  It would not to me.

So the FBI were informed, JQK was informed, Beth was informed according to Kermit. I don't see them going after Kyle...so why is Kermit here on SM going after Kyle and the crew of the Persistence?

Kermit informed Beth. Yes.
Kermit is NOT going after Kyle.
Kermit posted the truth to expose the Aruba cover-up

[Buckeye]

Kermit posted Kyle's words.

During the analysis of Kyle's words, issues have been raised.

Don't shoot the messenger.

[ldstlou]

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some justice!

Thank you Jen as well as th Freebirds.If Kyle has mislead the Freebirds as well as Monkey's.Why and who is continuing to defend him..Kyle is more then welcome to answer questions for himself...Correct me if i'm wrong!TIA

He doesn't want to. You all can call him out every day...he doesn't feel the need to defend himself and frankly I agree with him. If Beth or Dave have questions for him, they know how to contact him. He doesn't owe the Scared Monkeys anything. This is your beef not his. He chooses not to get involved. That is his right and his choice.

[Kermit]

I rarely have anything new to add to this thread. I do come to learn new things, and I come because I care about this case.

I have something to say today and it's this:

Who gives a rat's behind about ANYBODY breaking a "confidentiality" when the pursuit of truth as to what happened to Natalee and who is responsible is what's at stake???

If anyone, for any reason, would feel the need to put up a hurdle called "confidential" between the truth and answering those questions, then they have a problem; a BIG one!

No one should be involved in answering those questions who has any reservations about following the truth wherever that leads. Had ALE done that to begin with, this case would have been readily solved and Justice for Natalee would have long ago been attained.

If anyone would withold relevent information, or even possible relevent information, hostage for any reason, then they need to sign up to work for the Aruban authorities. They'll be quite at home there.

That's my opinion.

Very well stated.

[Keepthefaith]

From where i sit in Seattle ldstlou it seems from my perspective your only problem is the disemination of the information to people other then the Freebirds!Why?And do correct me if i'm wrong.

[truthseeker2]

Isn't that the point......Truthseeker2  "We still have no idea what was in that trap."

Well....it has been MY point from the very beginning.

[ldstlou]

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's family are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?

In the example above would a confidentiality agreement make any difference to you?  It would not to me.

So the FBI were informed, JQK was informed, Beth was informed according to Kermit. I don't see them going after Kyle...so why is Kermit here on SM going after Kyle and the crew of the Persistence?

Kermit informed Beth. Yes.
Kermit is NOT going after Kyle.
Kermit posted the truth to expose the Aruba cover-up

Kermit...come on. IF the Arubans walked away with Natalee...it was Kyle who exposed it not you.

[Keepthefaith]

Isn't that the point......Truthseeker2  "We still have no idea what was in that trap."

Well....it has been MY point from the very beginning.

We'll never know what is in the trap and why?