Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 - 12/31/08

[truthseeker2]

Isn't that the point......Truthseeker2  "We still have no idea what was in that trap."

Well....it has been MY point from the very beginning.

We'll never know what is in the trap and why?

Ask Eduardo Mansur.

[Keepthefaith]

Oh I see what Idstlou is doing.

Gee, in order to do that, why we might have to expose her buddy.

Let me think on it. Better yet, let me sleep on it.

And then I might just expose more of why Isdstlou is trying to protect Kyle.

oh boy...can't wait to see this one. You still haven't answered if the CURRENT members of the Freebirds agree with your actions and opinions.

I resigned.

But I know who is telling you what.
So be sure, I'll sleep on it and I might just expose that on New Years eve.

Kermit... I'll be here!

[Kermit]

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's family are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?

In the example above would a confidentiality agreement make any difference to you?  It would not to me.

So the FBI were informed, JQK was informed, Beth was informed according to Kermit. I don't see them going after Kyle...so why is Kermit here on SM going after Kyle and the crew of the Persistence?

Kermit informed Beth. Yes.
Kermit is NOT going after Kyle.
Kermit posted the truth to expose the Aruba cover-up

Kermit...come on. IF the Arubans walked away with Natalee...it was Kyle who exposed it not you.

How can Kyle expose something he didn't turn over to the proper authorities,and or family in due diligence????

ummmm...I'll say it again...kermit copied and posted Kyle's info...she reiterated what he said...so where's the cover-up if he said it.

John Silvetti had ONLY Aruban divers at the cage site to retrieve the evidence.
Now why is that Idstlou?

My understanding Kermit is they had no choice.

So they knew it was wrong?

[ldstlou]

ldstlou,
Please step back, read what has been said; and review what you are saying.  Please.....and remember what this is all about.  I just think you've lost focus, that's all.

I am just looking for the truth the same as everyone else.
I find Kermit's actions suspicious. I also find the letter written suspicious. Why say it was sent from the Freebirds if it in fact wasn't? Did they endorse it or not.

[Keepthefaith]

Isn't that the point......Truthseeker2  "We still have no idea what was in that trap."

Well....it has been MY point from the very beginning.

We'll never know what is in the trap and why?

Ask Eduardo Mansur.

I'd still like to know that as well Truthseeker2 but,maybe Silvetti and the crew have our answer??One would think Kyle would know.He doesn't want to talk for some reason.

[Kermit]

Oh I see what Idstlou is doing.

Gee, in order to do that, why we might have to expose her buddy.

Let me think on it. Better yet, let me sleep on it.

And then I might just expose more of why Isdstlou is trying to protect Kyle.

oh boy...can't wait to see this one. You still haven't answered if the CURRENT members of the Freebirds agree with your actions and opinions.

I resigned.

But I know who is telling you what.
So be sure, I'll sleep on it and I might just expose that on New Years eve.

Kermit... I'll be here!

LOL

Truth can guide, protect and brings freedom
heh heh
it's going to be good.

[RoxiBalboa]

I get chills from most of what I've read. Thanks to the new "free" members for the added information. Who is it we should be contacting to make this an international incident, and get things happening? I will contact anyone, as will the other monkeys to get things happening!

sing-a-long: ring around the rosie.....
are we going in circles????

OT p.s. Janet, I read your New Year's resolutions, tsk tsk, I've saw you ask for a correction. LOL

[ldstlou]

Oh I see what Idstlou is doing.

Gee, in order to do that, why we might have to expose her buddy.

Let me think on it. Better yet, let me sleep on it.

And then I might just expose more of why Isdstlou is trying to protect Kyle.

oh boy...can't wait to see this one. You still haven't answered if the CURRENT members of the Freebirds agree with your actions and opinions.

I resigned.

But I know who is telling you what.
So be sure, I'll sleep on it and I might just expose that on New Years eve.

Well let me know who it is too Kermit.
God lawd the dramatics. Just spill what you think you got.

[Keepthefaith]

ldstlou,
Please step back, read what has been said; and review what you are saying.  Please.....and remember what this is all about.  I just think you've lost focus, that's all.

I am just looking for the truth the same as everyone else.
I find Kermit's actions suspicious. I also find the letter written suspicious. Why say it was sent from the Freebirds if it in fact wasn't? Did they endorse it or not.

Again ldstlou.Did Kyle Kingman mislead The Freebirds,Monkey's,and or anyone else for that matter?

[texasmom]

Oh I see what Idstlou is doing.

Gee, in order to do that, why we might have to expose her buddy.

Let me think on it. Better yet, let me sleep on it.

And then I might just expose more of why Isdstlou is trying to protect Kyle.

oh boy...can't wait to see this one. You still haven't answered if the CURRENT members of the Freebirds agree with your actions and opinions.

I resigned.

But I know who is telling you what.
So be sure, I'll sleep on it and I might just expose that on New Years eve.

Kermit,
I wish you would just tell it now.  I typed a whole paragraph as to why I wish you would do it now, but I erased that because I know it would offend someone who has lost focus of what we're here for; so can we please just put it all on the table now....so we can move on to what's important here...Justice for Natalee?

[ldstlou]

Ldstlou.....


Again ldstlou.Did Kyle turn over everything he had pertaining to Natalee's search in Due diligence to the family as well as the FBI?Yes or No?

Again.Ldstlou.Don't know if you're seeing it or posting to fast??

this has been asked and answred at good 20 times by now.

[Keepthefaith]

Ldstlou.....


Again ldstlou.Did Kyle turn over everything he had pertaining to Natalee's search in Due diligence to the family as well as the FBI?Yes or No?

Again.Ldstlou.Don't know if you're seeing it or posting to fast??

this has been asked and answred at good 20 times by now.

Yes or No??Care to answer yourself?

[ldstlou]

Oh I see what Idstlou is doing.

Gee, in order to do that, why we might have to expose her buddy.

Let me think on it. Better yet, let me sleep on it.

And then I might just expose more of why Isdstlou is trying to protect Kyle.

oh boy...can't wait to see this one. You still haven't answered if the CURRENT members of the Freebirds agree with your actions and opinions.

I resigned.

But I know who is telling you what.
So be sure, I'll sleep on it and I might just expose that on New Years eve.

Kermit,
I wish you would just tell it now.  I typed a whole paragraph as to why I wish you would do it now, but I erased that because I know it would offend someone who has lost focus of what we're here for; so can we please just put it all on the table now....so we can move on to what's important here...Justice for Natalee?

where supposed to be looking for the truth...so I agree..tell it.

[Buckeye]

You still didn't answer my question. Do the CURRENT Freebirds endorse your letter that was posted "by the Freebirds".           

Let's first get this technically correct.  My letter was posted by Klaas.  Not "by the Freebirds".  My letter was signed by me - not "by the Freebirds".

Now that's straight -
One member didn't want the group's name dragged through all of this by YOU.

Other than that - no problems.

Can you move on now?

Your letter was posted with a heading that said letter from the Freebirds. I am just asking if they endorsed your letter.

The letter was not the first one sent over by the Freebirds.  My guess is that Klaas recognized the delivery method.  Many people post what the "monkeys" say and it doesn't usually pertain to Red. I don't care if the current hidey hole residents endorse the post.  I believe a former Freebird Adm, with first hand knowledge of the situation, shared her/his knowledge. Could we possibly get past how we found out and just get back to dealing with the info??  sheesh

[Kermit]

ldstlou,
Please step back, read what has been said; and review what you are saying.  Please.....and remember what this is all about.  I just think you've lost focus, that's all.

I am just looking for the truth the same as everyone else.
I find Kermit's actions suspicious. I also find the letter written suspicious. Why say it was sent from the Freebirds if it in fact wasn't? Did they endorse it or not.

Idstlou stated: "I am just looking for the truth the same as everyone else.

The ONLY REASON you say you are suspicious of me is because of the false information you are being fed.

Idstlou, I'm not a dummy dog. I can back up what I say.

[bastibro]

No, Janet, it hasn't.  We still have no idea what was in that trap.  That has been my perspective from the very beginning.  That has not changed.  The idea that I like coming to SM to see the same thing posted over and over and over has not changed either.  I have the same goal as every other person who posts at this site.  I just do not get the same level respect.  And...heaven forbid you decide to make me your next target. Why...I shake in my boots.  But, I guess that is the type of thing that makes it all go 'round for some.

Me, as I have stated before, I am an analyst...and a damn good one.  I still do not see any facts indicating there were human remains in that trap.  Are we to assume that as fact because Kyle says so?  From what I can tell from most of the posts here lately...he is not to be believed.  Which is it?  Is he trutworthy or not?  So for me, until it is proven that human remains were found and that those human remains were Natalee's I will keep looking for answers.

Also, as an analyst, I fully understand contract work and the use/non-use of intellectual property.  Kyle may have disseminated that information within violation of a contract, and therefore his azz would be on the line.  If he is wrong, and he may be wrong, he may never be able to work again in his current capacity.  For whatever reason, he chose to do what he did.  I was not there, so I cannot and do not judge his actions. 

I accept the information regading the contents of the trap for what it is...his opinion...nothing more.  Calling him out on a forum day in and day out has not changed any of the known facts about Natalee.  It's all supposition.  I hope that someone has the where with all to get to the bottom of it, like our FBI.  But, they have had this information for a while now and we have not heard a word from them as to any future investigation.  We are only hearing a request for further investigations from the Netherlands.

And I also agree with whoever posted last night....trying to appeal to someone's faith is a personal thing...people can do that in open forums if they like.  It's not something I would do.

Back to lurking and researching......

I a 98% agree !! 

However it`s my opinion to that this ARE human remains(not the thing that looked like a skull)

Maybe.  Have you been able to put that to scale with the 'skull'?  That would be interesting to see.
[/quote]

Yes, i was searching for reasons to exclude, but came to the conclusion that the size proportionally fits to the cage.

The thing`thought to be a skull` i did exclude. A human skull would take almost 1 third of the cage height.

[Rob]

Good Evening,

First, I would like to take a second to acknowledge Peaches and her determination to beat cancer. It was one of the bravest battles I have ever witnessed and I learned a lot from her. She will be sorely missed. My thoughts and prayers are with Mr. Peaches and their lovely daughter. I hope that God grants them the strength they will all need over the remainders of their own lives.

God Bless you Peaches and your family, you are in my prayers.

+++++

I have kinda been biting my tongue on the whole Freebird issue. Yes, I was a Freebird too and know them all. They are some of the best of the best. They are some of the most compassionate, caring and kind people I have ever gotten to know. Jen is a real sweetheart that gave so much of herself over the last few years that words can't really express my gratitude for her efforts. She is to be thanked along with everyone else still there and giving so much of themselves.

If they did not have the forum this info would most likely never have been known. So, there is a reason for everything and a cause and goal brought them together. They have remained true to their stated intent and each other.

When evidence of a crime was discovered, they did the right thing - they exposed it. That's what I have come to expect from such a loyal and devoted group. Their devotion to Natalee is unquestionable.

As, I told you a month or so ago, Kermit was always telling the truth. How do I know? I know because I know what makes Kermit tick and got to know her and her values. Those are some of the staunchest values on any board. When you are true to your own beliefs, well, you are never making a mistake.

+++

Wingnut - good to see you again my friend, happy holidays to you and yours'.

Jen I wish you the best no matter where your heart takes you!

[ldstlou]

ldstlou,
Please step back, read what has been said; and review what you are saying.  Please.....and remember what this is all about.  I just think you've lost focus, that's all.

I am just looking for the truth the same as everyone else.
I find Kermit's actions suspicious. I also find the letter written suspicious. Why say it was sent from the Freebirds if it in fact wasn't? Did they endorse it or not.

Idstlou stated: "I am just looking for the truth the same as everyone else.

The ONLY REASON you say you are suspicious of me is because of the false information you are being fed.

Idstlou, I'm not a dummy dog. I can back up what I say.

whatever Kermit. The dramatics get old. I am out of here. I can't stand your games anymore. Is this about the truth or your ego needing stroked?

[klaasend]

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some justice!

So then you are no longer a Freebird..is that correct? So then to say that your letter is from the "Freebird's"..is that incorrect? Did the current members endorse your letter?

MY MISTAKE - I should have said a former administrator of Freebirds. 

[Kermit]

Oh I see what Idstlou is doing.

Gee, in order to do that, why we might have to expose her buddy.

Let me think on it. Better yet, let me sleep on it.

And then I might just expose more of why Isdstlou is trying to protect Kyle.

oh boy...can't wait to see this one. You still haven't answered if the CURRENT members of the Freebirds agree with your actions and opinions.

I resigned.

But I know who is telling you what.
So be sure, I'll sleep on it and I might just expose that on New Years eve.

Kermit,
I wish you would just tell it now.  I typed a whole paragraph as to why I wish you would do it now, but I erased that because I know it would offend someone who has lost focus of what we're here for; so can we please just put it all on the table now....so we can move on to what's important here...Justice for Natalee?

No.

I'll put it all together so it will open everyone's eyes as to why Idstlou is behaving and asking what she is.
Believe me, it's all because of the information she has been fed.

I do not know Idstlou and certainly have no intention to hurt her feelings when I burst the bubble.
That's my disclaimer so she knows ahead of time. She said she wanted to know the truth and she is only getting what someone wants her to know.