Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 - 12/31/08

[klaasend]

To Klaas.Turkey melt and Taters.I work open to close at one of the family stores on Tuesday and friday's.Get tired of eating the food around the store so don't eat till i get home.That's how i have the grace to be on The forum so often.Run my own show and follow the Monkey's...

Ah, OK 

[wreck]

My opinion --- several monkeys here have been conned. Most of them were "shango" enthusiasts.

yah!

and when the un-conned spoke up
we got the cold shoulder
and flimsy reassurances that those
"in the know" knew more/knew all

hah!

Looking back, posters have come aboard. Seemed to have all the answers. Spoke crypticly, gave vague (yet elaborate) explanations, implied to "be in the know", etc...

Then, they are challenged, and POOF... They disappear. Wonder why? Seems like they serve their purpose, and then vanish into thin air, only to resurface with fresh loads of bullshit.

Facts speak for themselves. Truth is truth. Fiction is fiction.

Does anyone ever get up, walk from their computer, and bang their head against the wall? Sometimes I can't seem to wrap my brain around what is fact and what is fiction.

Was this:
...a contrived plot, full of of drugs, porn videos, secret Lion's Dens, full of Elders, with a subplot of Columbian and Venezuelan druglords, high powered speedboats, casino mobsters. Sprinkle in (various) ponds, chocolate, ants, lighthouses, rock painting crews, Hitler references, mysterious witnesses, etc...

OR

...a group of locals, who spiked a girls drink (as probably done before to "last night" female tourists) seeking to have fun with a disadvantaged and unsuspecting girl. After (unexpected) accidental death, panick ensued and the father (who is known to be trained in the legal profession and has contacts) for advice. Rather than be faced with the negative stigma and bad publicity, a decision was made to dispose of, rather than report, the death. Due to the size and population of the island, and for fear of a black eye to a tourism industry, which masks other money related washing machine industries, close friends (who held prominent positions) went to work and sabotaged the investigation in an attempt to make it simply "go away." When international media descended, and because of lack of experience, they became defensive. Everyone clammed up. Strategies were put in place by high-powered minds to distract, disinform, and disrupt the heat. To this day, they continue to stick to their guns, never giving in to pressure and implications that a cover-up happened.

Is it simple or is it complicated? Ever wonder?

I suspect the latter story. It snowballed from a simple crime. They had NO idea the "Persistence" of one Beth Holloway.

[BUCKSHOT]

Wonder what Kermit thinks of Patrick?

[finngirl]

this isn't easy to say but I'm feelin' froggy
so I'm just gonna leap:

last week or thereabouts I shared
re being duped into joining a private forum

some of that was misconstrued:
especially the part where I said "some" took credit
for the group's research

there were comments that "credit" shouldn't matter
but that wasn't my gripe/focus

if you'd been where I was and you'd been lied to/used ...
you woulda realized the obvious as I/others did:
credit matters very much
to those who present themselves (to the H/T families)
as the big case solvers ...
w/ financial gain/publicity/glory as their goals

I'm not gonna call anyone out
but it appears (to me) that these same shenannigans
are happening again/here/now

I'd love it if all concerned refused any reward/publicity/etc
when we bring the girl home
(which we will)

goooooooooo Kermit!

[truthseeker2]

Goodnight, monkeys.  Gotta work all day tomorrow.  Hopefully things will be really quiet since I have no conference calls scheduled and I can keep up with the forum from the office.

[Keepthefaith]

Goodnight, monkeys.  Gotta work all day tomorrow.  Hopefully things will be really quiet since I have no conference calls scheduled and I can keep up with the forum from the office.

Goodnight Truthseeker2.Still like to know the power structure regardless of where it leads...

[Tamikosmom]

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
 
At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator
Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

[Tamikosmom]

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
10:20 PM

[Keepthefaith]

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
10:20 PM

Goodnight Janet..

[billb's daughter]

OR

...a group of locals, who spiked a girls drink (as probably done before to "last night" female tourists) seeking to have fun with a disadvantaged and unsuspecting girl. After (unexpected) accidental death, panick ensued and the father (who is known to be trained in the legal profession and has contacts) for advice. Rather than be faced with the negative stigma and bad publicity, a decision was made to dispose of, rather than report, the death. Due to the size and population of the island, and for fear of a black eye to a tourism industry, which masks other money related washing machine industries, close friends (who held prominent positions) went to work and sabotaged the investigation in an attempt to make it simply "go away." When international media descended, and because of lack of experience, they became defensive. Everyone clammed up. Strategies were put in place by high-powered minds to distract, disinform, and disrupt the heat. To this day, they continue to stick to their guns, never giving in to pressure and implications that a cover-up happened.

Is it simple or is it complicated? Ever wonder?

Simple makes the most sense. KISS 
The coverup snowballed to where everyone in the snowball chain compromised themselves and the Aruban Dutch feel entitled (how dare anyone/thing question me/us) and now it IS THEM against the truth seekers and truth seekers be damned. The judiciary has always been corrupt. it goes with the territory on aruba. It is so obvious that those in power on aruba control everything and can (and probably will) get away with the murder of Natalee. let the citizens of aruba take the brunt of the fallout (greatly diminished tourism-which the island depends on) while those in control continue their money laundering(banks - casinos)/free zone/pornography ways...That's the FOLLOW the MONEY reasoning that will deny Justice for Natalee.....
AND that is why it is of utmost importance to EXPOSE what transpired during the Persistence search and hopefully force aruba to return Natalee to her family...
JMHO   

[texasmom]

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
10:20 PM

Goodnight Janet!

And 2NJ, and Snoopy!  (I was working on something else for a bit...hope I didn't miss anyone else calling it a night!)

 

[MuffyBee]

billb ~ 

And to all the monkeys headed to the bunkey, good night

[billb's daughter]

Nite to all....KISS..
Happy New Year to all...Natalee will get Justice...only a matter of time

[crazybabyborg]

Buckshot? You asked if anyone ever wondered if it was simple or complicated.

I've not only wondered, I've been on both sides of the issue..........repeatedly!

I've sort of settled into one conclusion. The cover up was complicated. That's it! That's all I feel sure about.   

[klaasend]

Just because someone posts it here do not assume everyone agrees, we are simply taking in all sides so we can determine for ourselves what we want to believe.

Finngirl makes some valid points.  I have trusted Capslock and would still like to believe he is a good guy in all of this.  That said I don't agree with everything Caps says either.

If Kermit is wrong, please feel free to post why with an attempt to back it up with proof. 

With that, I'm calling it a night.

GOODNIGHT ALL!

[texasmom]

Nite to all....KISS..
Happy New Year to all...Natalee will get Justice...only a matter of time

Nite billb!  Good posts!   

[Tamikosmom]

Simple makes the most sense. KISS 

The coverup snowballed to where everyone in the snowball chain compromised themselves and the Aruban Dutch feel entitled (how dare anyone/thing question me/us) and now it IS THEM against the truth seekers and truth seekers be damned. The judiciary has always been corrupt. it goes with the territory on aruba. It is so obvious that those in power on aruba control everything and can (and probably will) get away with the murder of Natalee. let the citizens of aruba take the brunt of the fallout (greatly diminished tourism-which the island depends on) while those in control continue their money laundering(banks - casinos)/free zone/pornography ways...That's the FOLLOW the MONEY reasoning that will deny Justice for Natalee.....
 
AND that is why it is of utmost importance to EXPOSE what transpired during the Persistence search and hopefully force aruba to return Natalee to her family...

JMHO   

Yes!!

billb ... the domino effect in regards to accountability for what happened on the morning of May 30, 2005 as well as the persuing coverup dictates that justice will never be forthcoming for Natalee Holloway from an Aruban or Dutch courtroom.

Pressure has to be brought upon Aruba by the FBI if the family is to be afforded a measure of closure.  The truth regarding the contents of the cage/trap needs to be exposed.

Janet

++++++++

'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/

[Keepthefaith]

Just because someone posts it here do not assume everyone agrees, we are simply taking in all sides so we can determine for ourselves what we want to believe.

Finngirl makes some valid points.  I have trusted Capslock and would still like to believe he is a good guy in all of this.  That said I don't agree with everything Caps says either.

If Kermit is wrong, please feel free to post why with an attempt to back it up with proof. 

With that, I'm calling it a night.

GOODNIGHT ALL!

Goodnight and thanx Klaas.Turkey melt and taters are FANTASTIC..

[crazybabyborg]

Just because someone posts it here do not assume everyone agrees, we are simply taking in all sides so we can determine for ourselves what we want to believe.

Finngirl makes some valid points.  I have trusted Capslock and would still like to believe he is a good guy in all of this.  That said I don't agree with everything Caps says either.

If Kermit is wrong, please feel free to post why with an attempt to back it up with proof. 

With that, I'm calling it a night.

GOODNIGHT ALL!

Goodnight, zoogeeper! Sleep Well, Klaas!

[finngirl]

Does anyone ever get up, walk from their computer, and bang their head against the wall? Sometimes I can't seem to wrap my brain around what is fact and what is fiction.

daily, sometimes hourly

Was this:
...a contrived plot, full of of drugs, porn videos, secret Lion's Dens, full of Elders, with a subplot of Columbian and Venezuelan druglords, high powered speedboats, casino mobsters. Sprinkle in (various) ponds, chocolate, ants, lighthouses, rock painting crews, Hitler references, mysterious witnesses, etc...

OR

...a group of locals, who spiked a girls drink (as probably done before to "last night" female tourists) seeking to have fun with a disadvantaged and unsuspecting girl. After (unexpected) accidental death, panick ensued and the father (who is known to be trained in the legal profession and has contacts) for advice. Rather than be faced with the negative stigma and bad publicity, a decision was made to dispose of, rather than report, the death. Due to the size and population of the island, and for fear of a black eye to a tourism industry, which masks other money related washing machine industries, close friends (who held prominent positions) went to work and sabotaged the investigation in an attempt to make it simply "go away." When international media descended, and because of lack of experience, they became defensive. Everyone clammed up. Strategies were put in place by high-powered minds to distract, disinform, and disrupt the heat. To this day, they continue to stick to their guns, never giving in to pressure and implications that a cover-up happened.

Is it simple or is it complicated? Ever wonder?

a combination of both?

the locale and the careers of some players
complicated an otherwise simple scenario?

locale: corrupt/steamy resort
careers: atty/PvdS and polis/vdStraten

the locale provided the petri dish
and the careers provided the bacteria

the scenario could have been smaller
if the persons involved were blue collar
and the locale didn't involve tourists/casinos/etc

shango's basic story is very simple
when you strip away the elaborate imagery