Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #78

[crazybabyborg]

I'm trying so hard to get to page 95 so I can paste the page warning. I'm going to tell it if this lasts much longer! 

UGGHHHHHH

WTF did I say?????

I need a computer breath alyzer to prevent future incidents!
[/quote]
************************************************************



OK. O/T

We were in really deep discussion in the Natalee thread. The place was packed with posters and the posts were flying with breaking news.

FOM was no where on the thread and hadn’t been on all day.

In the midst of a flurry of maps, theories, and timelines, there appeared one lone post from FOM:

"You are making me so horny...........


Ooops………..wrong forum."


 

[crazybabyborg]

[Lucinda]

<<  snip >>
Still no update here except that the remains are hers.  Does anyone have an update?  Just so sad.  The mother deserves death.  Life in prison is not worth it because we pay the taxes to keep her in jail.  I don't mean to be morbid, but I am sick of keeping all of the criminals alive and we have to pay the tab.  Casey and everyone else.

Maria    Not morbid   I will not go into it ..  but I do agree with you... on the maintenance issues  JMO of course

Thanks oldfart.  I save seen your name on a lot of posts over the years and I really respect you.  I have been reading here for 3+ years since Natalee disappeared.  That's what brought me here.

It is actually much cheaper to keep the criminals alive than to execute them. This is because the appeals process involves a lot of very high-paid people that the state has to pay for, when someone is sentenced to death. Because the death penalty is irreversible, it's got an automatic appeal, so it's a lot more expensive.

Exactly.  Prisons are a lot cheaper than the death penalty because when someone is in prison for their entire lives, their living arrangements are all handled by the lowest bidder, so its nice and cheap.  Much of the work required to house, clothe, and feed the prisoners is done by the prisoners themselves, at wages not even illegal immigrants are prepared to accept.

10 to 20 years of death penalty appeals isn't handled by the lowest bidder.  Its handled by district attorneys who make upwards of $100,000 a year, and public defenders who aren't paid a great deal but still more than most people.  It also requires the services of all kinds of higher-paid employees like stenographers, court clerks, bailiffs, and especially judges.  Juries are paid a small fee per day, and if memory serves the local rate is $9 a day, for 12 people thats $108 per day just for the jury ($3,240 a month, $39,420 a year).  Good or average defense attorneys and public defenders will use whatever kind of delay they can manage, extending the court costs even more and requiring huge annual sums for the juries.

For example, California has the death penalty.  If the death penalty was abolished and all of the California death row inmates were incarcerated for life without parole, the annual cost would be $11.5 million.  The current cost to incarcerate death row inmates on the California death row?  Using conservative estimates, $137 million per year.  Of course, there are many problems with the current California death row system which need fixing, and if they fixed all the problems it would actually cost $232.7 million per year.

Just seeking the death penalty costs more than seeking just life without parole.  Maryland's government recently completed a study where it found that since 1978, when Maryland reenacted the death penalty, the 106 cases in which the death penalty was sought but not handed down by the court cost the state $71 million more than if the cases had just sought life without the possibility of parole, or an average of $669,811.32 just to seek the death penalty.

If you're annoyed about the cost of punishing criminals, abolish the death penalty.  Its the only financially sensible thing to do.

This information (and more besides) on how financially irresponsible the death penalty really is can be found at: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

We do currently have hundreds of innocent people on death row in the US right now, and so it does make sense to have this appeal. If someone's kept for 10 years, then exonerated by DNA evidence, we can release them. But if someone's executed, then exonerated by the DNA evidence, all we can do is apologize to the family, which really doesn't help the dead person at all.

Yes, the laws which make it very hard for the government to execute someone protect everyone.  If you happen to come across a dead body and a gun in the street, accidentally picked up the gun (and covered it with your fingerprints) just as the police arrived, and it turned out that you had been having violent arguments with the victim for years, I think that you'd be very happy that it was very hard for the government to execute someone.

Everyone forgets that the criminal being "coddled" could be themselves, in prison for a crime they didn't commit.  Prison sucks but being murdered by the state for something I didn't do is worse.

Life in prison will be a good, stiff sentence for Casey--especially if she's able to see American Idol and various other TV shows where other people are out there having a good time and throwing parties and getting famous, WITHOUT HER, and she has to just age knowing she'll never have her turn.

(A lot of people think that playing Caylee's voice and putting pictures up in her cell would torment her, but I don't. I think Casey's incapable of those feelings--it's all about her. But what WOULD torment her would be funhouse mirrors in her cell--never being able to really see how she looks, and to know that she's missing out on the parties and the love affairs she killed to be free to have.)

Funhouse mirrors?  Maybe for the next few years or so, but please switch them to regular mirrors in a decade so she can watch herself AGE (and so she can see the bruises she gets from all the mothers in prison (for crimes unrelated to children) who have little children at home).  Make them nice steel mirrors, bolted to the walls, so that she can't smash them or use them as impromptu suicide knives.

Very interesting! Thanks for the good research, eternal0void!

I wonder if women prisoners adopt the same attitude toward child killers as they do in men's prisons? If so, Casey's in for a hard time!

They do, women are more aggresive towards child killers than men are.  Its a known fact, a mother thing.  I hope she gets life without parole, not 15 years or some pathetic sentence like that.  She needs to rot in there, that would be way better than death.  Death row is very secure and isolated from mainstream, so noone can get her.  I didnt know of the costs involved tho, eternal0void, but yeah it makes sense.  Stick her in the mainstream, the big tuff casey, lets see how well you handle prison life.  No partys, no fun, and watch your back 24x7, and I hope you replay in your mind over and over again what horror you inflicted on your baby.    

[friend of monkeys]

I'm trying so hard to get to page 95 so I can paste the page warning. I'm going to tell it if this lasts much longer! 

UGGHHHHHH

WTF did I say?????

I need a computer breath alyzer to prevent future incidents!

OK. O/T

We were in really deep discussion in the Natalee thread. The place was packed with posters and the posts were flying with breaking news.

FOM was no where on the thread and hadn’t been on all day.

In the midst of a flurry of maps, theories, and timelines, there appeared one lone post from FOM:

"You are making me so horny...........


Ooops………..wrong forum."


 
[/quote]


LMAO..it was lunch time and i was at the library..lol..checking SM

I meant to sat i  was hungry......lol

[crazybabyborg]

With that, I'm going to bed. The next thread is unlocked. If someone gets there tonight, I'm making one more post with the link to the new thread and the lock picture. Just quote my next post on page 100 and go to the next thread, OK? Don't do it until page 100!

Thanks!!!!

Sleep Well All! 

[Lucinda]

night ccb

[crazybabyborg]

Caylee's thread #79
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4272.0

[friend of monkeys]

night ccb

nite CBB and Monkeys.

You all ROCK!

Trust this, if anyhing, IT ALL COMES OUT IN THE WASH.

[Fuzzball]

You know, my biggest concern is that Casey could never be free to have, or be around, children again.  While I think she will always be a risk to everyone she comes in contact with, a child in her care (especially one in her custody) would be in a lot of danger - IMO.

I wish we would sterilize child murderers, child molesters, and people who torture or abandon children. They do not need to be parents. And someone like Casey Anthony should not ever be responsible for kids.

[NO1ZMONKEY]

i think the reason dr. g said that the toxicology may come back and not help us is because they know every drug would definitely come up in the hair follice test. Except for chloroform,not only does the body produce it during and after death, it also evaporates from specimens in heat. So imo thats why the tests will be helpless

[Lucinda]

You know, my biggest concern is that Casey could never be free to have, or be around, children again.  While I think she will always be a risk to everyone she comes in contact with, a child in her care (especially one in her custody) would be in a lot of danger - IMO.

I wish we would sterilize child murderers, child molesters, and people who torture or abandon children. They do not need to be parents. And someone like Casey Anthony should not ever be responsible for kids.

Sadly, that wont ever happen.  How was she tho, yelling out to the prison staff, shes going to have another child when she gets out.  A sister for Caylee.  She is a cold blooded murderer, a physcopathic, homicidal manic.  I hate her, I am sorry, but I want to see that smug look on her horse mouth face, get wiped right off.  Knowing her tho, she will try her best to get pregnant again, even in jail, she will be a seducer, shes evil and no two doubts about her. 

[eternal0void]

I am just warning all ... you think your blood was boiling today when the realization set in that the remains were that of Caylee. Wait until the trial when the defense tries to defend Casey with lies.

This is why I stated that I would never be an expert in this case ... its a career killer. These people will be some of the most despised people in America, only closely following behind Bin Laden.

Don't be too sure about that.  David Bruck was the attorney who defended Susan Smith (case info link) (which many of you will remember is the woman who, in 1994, put her two children into the back seat of her car and pushed it into a lake, then tried to blame their disappearance on being kidnapped by a black man) and who successfully kept her from being sentenced to death.  Seems to me the cases are somewhat similar, since Casey killed her daughter and then tried to point the blame to a Hispanic woman, and there's some possibility that the "mental illness" defense may be used in the Casey Anthony trial as well.

Where is David Bruck now? (link)

David has testified before U.S. Congressional committees on death penalty legislation on seven occasions, has presented CLE programs on capital and appellate litigation in more than twenty-five states and U.S. territories, and in 1996 received the John Minor Wisdom Public Service & Professionalism Award from the ABA Section of Litigation.

He has served as Federal Death Penalty Resource Counsel since the inception of the Project in January 1992. He was the 2002 Scholar-in-Residence at Washington & Lee Law School in Lexington, Virginia.

Seems his career didn't suffer at all.  As for his co-counsel, Judy Clarke (who also defended the "Unabomber"), her career didn't suffer either (link):

She is a Past President of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, a Fellow in the American College of Trial Lawyers, and was selected by the National Law Journal in 1998 as one of the top 50 women lawyers in the United States and in 2001 as one of the top women litigators in the U.S.

Dr. Seymour Halleck, the Susan Smith defense's expert psychiatric witness, still does psychiatric research for the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and his many books on psychiatric disorders still sell very well.

Seems to me that any publicity is good publicity, and being a witness in a sensational murder trial is great for defense attorneys and defense expert witnesses.

If Casey Anthony takes the Susan Smith approach to her defense, expect to see at least one defense psychiatric witness saying how mentally disordered she is, and if she really goes whole hog then the state psychiatric witness will declare that Casey "wants to die so she'll hurt her own defense if you put her on the stand" and Casey will become a born-again Christian while in prison.

Also, who is this "Bin Laden" character you're referring to?  What did he do?   

[eternal0void]

<<  snip >>
Still no update here except that the remains are hers.  Does anyone have an update?  Just so sad.  The mother deserves death.  Life in prison is not worth it because we pay the taxes to keep her in jail.  I don't mean to be morbid, but I am sick of keeping all of the criminals alive and we have to pay the tab.  Casey and everyone else.

Maria    Not morbid   I will not go into it ..  but I do agree with you... on the maintenance issues  JMO of course

Thanks oldfart.  I save seen your name on a lot of posts over the years and I really respect you.  I have been reading here for 3+ years since Natalee disappeared.  That's what brought me here.

It is actually much cheaper to keep the criminals alive than to execute them. This is because the appeals process involves a lot of very high-paid people that the state has to pay for, when someone is sentenced to death. Because the death penalty is irreversible, it's got an automatic appeal, so it's a lot more expensive.

Exactly.  Prisons are a lot cheaper than the death penalty because when someone is in prison for their entire lives, their living arrangements are all handled by the lowest bidder, so its nice and cheap.  Much of the work required to house, clothe, and feed the prisoners is done by the prisoners themselves, at wages not even illegal immigrants are prepared to accept.

10 to 20 years of death penalty appeals isn't handled by the lowest bidder.  Its handled by district attorneys who make upwards of $100,000 a year, and public defenders who aren't paid a great deal but still more than most people.  It also requires the services of all kinds of higher-paid employees like stenographers, court clerks, bailiffs, and especially judges.  Juries are paid a small fee per day, and if memory serves the local rate is $9 a day, for 12 people thats $108 per day just for the jury ($3,240 a month, $39,420 a year).  Good or average defense attorneys and public defenders will use whatever kind of delay they can manage, extending the court costs even more and requiring huge annual sums for the juries.

For example, California has the death penalty.  If the death penalty was abolished and all of the California death row inmates were incarcerated for life without parole, the annual cost would be $11.5 million.  The current cost to incarcerate death row inmates on the California death row?  Using conservative estimates, $137 million per year.  Of course, there are many problems with the current California death row system which need fixing, and if they fixed all the problems it would actually cost $232.7 million per year.

Just seeking the death penalty costs more than seeking just life without parole.  Maryland's government recently completed a study where it found that since 1978, when Maryland reenacted the death penalty, the 106 cases in which the death penalty was sought but not handed down by the court cost the state $71 million more than if the cases had just sought life without the possibility of parole, or an average of $669,811.32 just to seek the death penalty.

If you're annoyed about the cost of punishing criminals, abolish the death penalty.  Its the only financially sensible thing to do.

This information (and more besides) on how financially irresponsible the death penalty really is can be found at: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

[eternal0void]

We do currently have hundreds of innocent people on death row in the US right now, and so it does make sense to have this appeal. If someone's kept for 10 years, then exonerated by DNA evidence, we can release them. But if someone's executed, then exonerated by the DNA evidence, all we can do is apologize to the family, which really doesn't help the dead person at all.

Yes, the laws which make it very hard for the government to execute someone protect everyone.  If you happen to come across a dead body and a gun in the street, accidentally picked up the gun (and covered it with your fingerprints) just as the police arrived, and it turned out that you had been having violent arguments with the victim for years, I think that you'd be very happy that it was very hard for the government to execute someone.

Everyone forgets that the criminal being "coddled" could be themselves, in prison for a crime they didn't commit.  Prison sucks but being murdered by the state for something I didn't do is worse.

[eternal0void]

I am just warning all ... you think your blood was boiling today when the realization set in that the remains were that of Caylee. Wait until the trial when the defense tries to defend Casey with lies.

This is why I stated that I would never be an expert in this case ... its a career killer. These people will be some of the most despised people in America, only closely following behind Bin Laden.

Don't be too sure about that.  David Bruck was the attorney who defended Susan Smith (case info link) (which many of you will remember is the woman who, in 1994, put her two children into the back seat of her car and pushed it into a lake, then tried to blame their disappearance on being kidnapped by a black man) and who successfully kept her from being sentenced to death.  Seems to me the cases are somewhat similar, since Casey killed her daughter and then tried to point the blame to a Hispanic woman, and there's some possibility that the "mental illness" defense may be used in the Casey Anthony trial as well.

Where is David Bruck now? (link)

David has testified before U.S. Congressional committees on death penalty legislation on seven occasions, has presented CLE programs on capital and appellate litigation in more than twenty-five states and U.S. territories, and in 1996 received the John Minor Wisdom Public Service & Professionalism Award from the ABA Section of Litigation.

He has served as Federal Death Penalty Resource Counsel since the inception of the Project in January 1992. He was the 2002 Scholar-in-Residence at Washington & Lee Law School in Lexington, Virginia.

Seems his career didn't suffer at all.  As for his co-counsel, Judy Clarke (who also defended the "Unabomber"), her career didn't suffer either (link):

She is a Past President of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, a Fellow in the American College of Trial Lawyers, and was selected by the National Law Journal in 1998 as one of the top 50 women lawyers in the United States and in 2001 as one of the top women litigators in the U.S.

Dr. Seymour Halleck, the Susan Smith defense's expert psychiatric witness, still does psychiatric research for the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and his many books on psychiatric disorders still sell very well.

Seems to me that any publicity is good publicity, and being a witness in a sensational murder trial is great for defense attorneys and defense expert witnesses.

If Casey Anthony takes the Susan Smith approach to her defense, expect to see at least one defense psychiatric witness saying how mentally disordered she is, and if she really goes for the all-out Susan Smith Defense then the state psychiatric witness will declare that Casey "wants to die, so she'll hurt her own defense if you put her on the stand" and Casey will also become a born-again Christian while in prison.

Also, who is this "Bin Laden" character you're referring to?  What did he do?   

P.S. While you may think you're helping justice by demanding that anyone who defends Casey Anthony be boycotted and ostracized, any attempt to influence the case from outside the courtroom will be used by the defense (in the case of a guilty verdict) to help in the appeal or, even worse, declare a mistrial.  It's usually best to just let the legal system do its job by itself.

[eternal0void]

You know, my biggest concern is that Casey could never be free to have, or be around, children again.  While I think she will always be a risk to everyone she comes in contact with, a child in her care (especially one in her custody) would be in a lot of danger - IMO.

I wish we would sterilize child murderers, child molesters, and people who torture or abandon children. They do not need to be parents. And someone like Casey Anthony should not ever be responsible for kids.

Sadly, that wont ever happen.

It is probably a good thing that the government doesn't sterilize anyone for anything (short of necessary surgery to correct a debilitating condition and not directly intended to cause sterility) for the same reason why its great that the death penalty is so hard to implement even if someone has been sentenced to death: both sentences are very permanent and very life changing, and very bad if the government does either one to an innocent person.

How was she tho, yelling out to the prison staff, shes going to have another child when she gets out.  A sister for Caylee.  She is a cold blooded murderer, a physcopathic, homicidal manic.  I hate her, I am sorry, but I want to see that smug look on her horse mouth face, get wiped right off.  Knowing her tho, she will try her best to get pregnant again, even in jail, she will be a seducer, shes evil and no two doubts about her. 

This is looking more and more like the Susan Smith case, which is now even more relevant because Susan Smith has (in the past) successfully managed to persuade two male prison guards to have sex with her in prison (one at a time, not both together), in a bid for her to get pregnant again.

The problem we have in the world today is that, at one time, there was a big push for sterilization as a tool to reduce crime, by sterilizing all criminals and thus preventing any "criminal genes" from being passed along into the general gene pool.  The U.S.A. was unfortunately a big supporter of this movement, titled the Eugenics Movement, and after much of it was disproven there was a huge legal and judicial effort to prevent eugenical ideals from ever gaining strength again.  Among those efforts were court cases in the early part of the 20th century declaring reproduction to be a fundamental human right, not subject to state control, making it almost impossible for the U.S. government to sterilize anyone.

[Fuzzball]

I hope this is okay to ask.  If not, I am sorry.

Does anyone think that the defense is going to be, in part, that Caylee was the result of incest?  If so, would it affect your opinion in anyway and would it matter whether it was George or Lee?  I'm really starting to think that may be Baez's plan for his big unveiling of the story.

No cheekymonkey it would not alter my opinion in the least. 
There is no defense for a Mother that takes her childs life.  IMO

I agree - no matter where a kid comes from it is a gift. If you can not face the kid, then give it up for adoption.

But we know that's what Casey tried to do. And Cindy wouldn't let her. At the hospital they put Caylee into Cindy's arms, and IMO Cindy ought to have adopted her right then and there, no messing about with seeing if a baby would make Casey mature or turn into a more responsible, warm, feeling kind of person.

Agree that there's no excuse for killing a 3-year-old. Not sure how not wanting Caylee to start with, or Caylee being the product of incest (or rape, or both,) mitigates it at all.

[Fuzzball]

I don't think any of us can blame the defense for looking closely at Mr. Kronk.  This is a very unusual circumstance, and he has a big role in it.  A couple of things have come to my mind.  For instance, I wonder if he joined in any of the searches when Tim was there.  If he was so interested in the case, you would think he might have done that.  And especially if there was a search of that area.  You would think he would go there and try to determine if people were looking where he had noticed the bag.  I also wonder if he just saw the bag and thought it was suspicious or if he went closer and smelled an odor.  However, if Caylee was killed in June, and she was left in the heat until August 11th, 12th and 13th, when he was making his calls, would there still have been a terribled smell?  One would think so.

I remember that there had been something like baking soda or something used to lessen a bad smell in the trunk of the car, and I wonder if Casey put some of that in the bag with the body, too.  Still, a neighbor said he smelled a bad smell in July and August.  I just have to wonder why Kronk was so completely convinced that the bag needed to be checked.

I can understand him not looking in the bag if it smelled really bad and was still closed and in one piece at that time.  But surely it was not.  Animals must have gotten to it right away.  So I just do not know how he decided that it was so important.  Of course, all kinds of people decide that all kinds of things are important and phone in tips, hoping to be helpful, and theirs amount to nothing.  His just happened to be on target.

The poster who said he will be investigated is correct.  Both the defense and the press will look into his whole life.  I am sure that LE has already insisted he take a lie detector test. 

If he is an amateur sleuth, there is a lesson here for all amateur sleuths.  DO NOT DO ANYTHING THAT MIGHT COMPROMISE THE INVESTIGATION IN ANY WAY.  I am amazed at how people who have surely watched many crime shows and movies will rush up and touch a dead body or even pick one up as John Ramsey did. 

I know that a great deal of emotion takes over, but my God, most of us would not move an injured person for fear of worsening the injuries so why would anyone pick up a dead child as Mr. Ramsey did, thus completely altering the crime scene.

Same reason Cindy washed the pants and cleaned the car. Because they WANT the crime scene to be compromised and the evidence to be contaminated.

I think Kronk handled it very well. He didn't touch the gray bag he called in about. And when he called in about the black bag he didn't pick it up, he kicked it.

[eternal0void]

I am just warning all ... you think your blood was boiling today when the realization set in that the remains were that of Caylee. Wait until the trial when the defense tries to defend Casey with lies.

This is why I stated that I would never be an expert in this case ... its a career killer. These people will be some of the most despised people in America, only closely following behind Bin Laden.

Don't be too sure about that.

Another member of the Susan Smith defense expert psychiatric witnesses, George Rekers, published a book about the case back in 1995 called "Susan Smith: Victim or Murderer".  It is still selling fairly well, even in its hardcover edition, and Amazon.com only has one copy left with more on order.

I'd publish the link to the Amazon.com book page, but I suspect the gallery would hiss if I did.

[Fuzzball]

I am really curious about Caylee's father now.  The story that he moved out of state and started a family in intriguing, because why would his obit be in the local papers if that was the case, unless his parents lived there, I suppose.  And why would locals have his dna?  I think we are going to get a big surprise about the father.

That will be the next big blockbuster in this case, and it may be bigger than the Kronk story or finding the body.  There is a story there guys, I am certain of it, a story that Cindy does not want told.

BTW, since Cindy is incarcerated, the FATHER, if he is alive, is the next of kin now, not Cindy and George.

Hudsunn, do you really think they're going to tell us who the father is? And when did the story switch from "he's dead," to "he moved out of state?" And why?