Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, Missing 6/16/08 Orlando FL (Remains Found) #83

[Hudsunn]

Conway's statement about complete immunity for the Anthonys is interesting.  He says that they will not say anything that could get them in trouble, but he just wants to be sure.  I suppose he could be protecting them against admitted "inconsistencies" but  I suspect he and they know that the cops and FBI are sick of their behavior and not going to cut them any slack anymore.

[TURBOTHINK]

Hudsunn, good to see you in the cage, I always enjoy reading your posts.

How do the Anthony's sleep at night?  Lots of medication, I'm thinkin'!

I am thinking this will take its toll on either GA or LEE. For some reason I can't shake the feeling one of them is going die.  If this is connected to a much larger criminal enterprise, it may not be by natural causes.

[Sassycat]

Okies.. just want to throw this into the mix, seems as good a place as any..

My oldest son is a classic sociopath, it seems.  Not diagnosed... yet, because he absolutely definitely refuses to see a psych doc.  He's straight up spitting image (in looks and behaviors) of his father, my ex, who also seems to be a classic sociopath.  I kicked my ex to the curb 22 years ago when said son was 6 yrs old.  My oldest and I were abused severely by that pathetic excuse for a man, and it took me 4 years to figure out that I *could* survive on my own with children at my side, and get up enough nerve to have his ass handed to him.  Little did I know at the time just how much my oldest son was abused by his father, not until 8 yrs later when he started spilling some of the truth.  It's a good thing for my ex that he had skipped the state and gone into hiding, cuz I'd be in prison today for (what seems to me to be) justifiable homicide. 

I'm drawn to cases such as this and Stacy Peterson's, etc.  because I'm scared of what and who my son has become.  In some way I'm hoping to learn from these cases, so that I can be even more on the alert for things to watch for in my son.  Scared to death for my grandson, now 2 yrs old, and his mama.  I've already helped her (from 2 hrs away at the time) get herself and grandson out of their house and away from my son, who had just hit her.  The darn girl came back... twice!  I've moved here to be in the midst of the fray, just to protect my grandson, if it comes to that again.  Sigh. 

I'm scared spitless of my oldest son.  Scared of his rage, of what he could do.  Yes I am seeing my own therapist, even tho I am a LCSW myself.  We are working on this very issue.  I'm writing this because I know there are others out there reading, who are in a similiar spot in there offline lives.  We can give each other support in here, giving each other strength.  We can learn from cases like this how to better protect ourselves, warning signs of what to watch for. 

I've already told my therapist, and now I'm telling all y'all... If I ever end up dead or go missing, I sure do hope that Tim Miller from TES is called and you monkeys notified immediately.  I have every confidence that my case would be solved.  My thanks to all of you for being here, for paying attention to every lil detail, for helping countless folks that you may not even be aware of. 

Hugs to you.   I truly feel for you.

My husband's ex (he was only married to her for five years) was also a sociopath.   That woman put him through pure hell.  He was lucky to be able to get rid of her, but not before he stole every dime she had and tried to accuse him of physical abuse.

He was in a high-profile job at the time, and she actually sent letters of his alleged abuse to senators and congressmen in our state, to try to get him fired from his job.    We hired a PI, and found out she had multiple SSNs, had been married four times before she married him (some of the marriages were overlapping), had bank accounts all over the east coast.   She had filed a false workman comp suit - and had been collecting $$ for years.  It was absolutely crazy.   At his divorce hearing, her own two sisters came to testify that she was a nut and a pathelogical liar.

After we were married about 6 years, we found out that someone had changed the beneficiary on his life insurance back to her name (gee, I wonder who)???    I'm not sure what is she capable of, but I keep a watch on her - even after 10 years now).

I feel for anyone dealing directly with a sociopath.    Words cannot describe the hell they put you through.

[Hudsunn]

I think the "menu" had to do with food, as anyone would expect.  I remember Casey mentioning bagels and Cindy saying that Caylee did like bagels with cream cheese.

[TURBOTHINK]

LP said last night on NG that he's sure he will be called to testify on behalf of the prosecution.  I found that strange, as most of what he has to offer would be considered heresay...right??? 

There may be direct conversations he had with others in the family which pertains to their lies. Rob and the woman would have had direct conversations with KC.

[Sassycat]

Okies.. just want to throw this into the mix, seems as good a place as any..

My oldest son is a classic sociopath, it seems.  Not diagnosed... yet, because he absolutely definitely refuses to see a psych doc.  He's straight up spitting image (in looks and behaviors) of his father, my ex, who also seems to be a classic sociopath.  I kicked my ex to the curb 22 years ago when said son was 6 yrs old.  My oldest and I were abused severely by that pathetic excuse for a man, and it took me 4 years to figure out that I *could* survive on my own with children at my side, and get up enough nerve to have his ass handed to him.  Little did I know at the time just how much my oldest son was abused by his father, not until 8 yrs later when he started spilling some of the truth.  It's a good thing for my ex that he had skipped the state and gone into hiding, cuz I'd be in prison today for (what seems to me to be) justifiable homicide. 

I'm drawn to cases such as this and Stacy Peterson's, etc.  because I'm scared of what and who my son has become.  In some way I'm hoping to learn from these cases, so that I can be even more on the alert for things to watch for in my son.  Scared to death for my grandson, now 2 yrs old, and his mama.  I've already helped her (from 2 hrs away at the time) get herself and grandson out of their house and away from my son, who had just hit her.  The darn girl came back... twice!  I've moved here to be in the midst of the fray, just to protect my grandson, if it comes to that again.  Sigh. 

I'm scared spitless of my oldest son.  Scared of his rage, of what he could do.  Yes I am seeing my own therapist, even tho I am a LCSW myself.  We are working on this very issue.  I'm writing this because I know there are others out there reading, who are in a similiar spot in there offline lives.  We can give each other support in here, giving each other strength.  We can learn from cases like this how to better protect ourselves, warning signs of what to watch for. 

I've already told my therapist, and now I'm telling all y'all... If I ever end up dead or go missing, I sure do hope that Tim Miller from TES is called and you monkeys notified immediately.  I have every confidence that my case would be solved.  My thanks to all of you for being here, for paying attention to every lil detail, for helping countless folks that you may not even be aware of. 

Hugs to you.   I truly feel for you.

My husband's ex (he was only married to her for five years) was also a sociopath.   That woman put him through pure hell.  He was lucky to be able to get rid of her, but not before she stole every dime he had and tried to accuse him of physical abuse.

He was in a high-profile job at the time, and she actually sent letters of his alleged abuse to senators and congressmen in our state, to try to get him fired from his job.    We hired a PI, and found out she had multiple SSNs, had been married four times before she married him (some of the marriages were overlapping), had bank accounts all over the east coast.   She had filed a false workman comp suit - and had been collecting $$ for years.  It was absolutely crazy.   At his divorce hearing, her own two sisters came to testify that she was a nut and a pathelogical liar.

After we were married about 6 years, we found out that someone had changed the beneficiary on his life insurance back to her name (gee, I wonder who)???    I'm not sure what is she capable of, but I keep a watch on her - even after 10 years now).

I feel for anyone dealing directly with a sociopath.    Words cannot describe the hell they put you through.

Sorry - fixing my errors.

[Jerseygirl345]

 Some Grounds for Mistrials..

The "manifest necessity" standard has proven amorphous. There is a plethora of circumstances that could warrant a mistrial, including procedural error; misconduct; the illness or injury of a lawyer, judge, or juror that prevents him or her from continuing; or an unexpected event, such as an outburst in the courtroom, that might unfairly influence the jury. Mistrials can occur for more idiosyncratic reasons as well: A West Virginia judge recently declared one because a juror drank beer during the lunch break.

A "hung jury"—when a jury is deadlocked with no hope of coming to an agreement—is also grounds for a mistrial.

Mistrials typically benefit defendants, and defense counsel therefore request them more frequently than prosecutors. Because the prosecution must prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt, situations presented by the passage of time—fading memories, disappearing witnesses, changing testimonies—can be more of a hindrance to the prosecution than to the defense. Moreover, in some instances, a defendant cannot be tried again after a mistrial. The double-jeopardy clause of the Constitution prohibits the state from trying someone for the same crime twice. This clause, which is simply worded yet extremely complicated when applied, can preclude the state from retrying a defendant when a judge has declared a mistrial for reasons that do not rise to the level of "manifest necessity" and the defendant did not request or consent to the mistrial.

 

[Hudsunn]

Thanks for the kind words, lovinlife.  This place is amazing...so many good opinions, such reasonable people, so much information and great research.  It's the best forum I have been on, really.

[BooMonkey]

Wyks, I think there are far more sociopaths and psychopaths walking around that we ever imagine.  I am so sorry for your situation and hope that your son will get some help, if he can be helped, at this stage.  Your husband was one of the more obvious sociopaths.  There seem to be many who can hide their sick minds behind oceans of charm and persuasiveness.  But sooner or later, that lack of empathy for others will express itself.

It seems to me that Baez wanted the body to remain unfound forever if possible, but certainly until after the trial.  If there were no body, it would be harder to convict Casey of killing her, and they would have gone on saying that she was out there somewhere alive and needed to be brought home.  Finding the body presents problems for Baez all around.  I doubt he had anything to do with getting it found.  However, he may have known where it was and hoped it would remain unfound until he could get Casey acquitted.  If found after that, it would be too late because of double jeopardy.  I am sure they delighted in seeing the police chasing cell phone pings near the airport, etc.

Concerning Casey and her family, I really think that Casey wanted to see and talk to her family as long as it was useful to her, but now that they are of no real help to her, I doubt she cares whether she sees them or not.  I don't think she has any great love for her parents, though she may have some bond with Lee.  But since she told Tony Lee abused her, it does not seem she cares that much for him, either. 

I disagree with people who say that Cindy is not the boss of the family.  I think George and Lee cater to her and do what she says.  The only thing that might make them stand up for themselves is the possibility of charges against them. 

I cannot figure out what Cindy is thinking now.  If she has a grain of sense, she knows that Casey killed Caylee to spite her and to punish her.  If she loved Caylee as much as she seemed to, she must be seething with anger toward Casey now.  I would be.  If she is still trying to defend Casey, it must be because there are family secrets that bind them all. 

She sure is keeping a low profile and that is not her nature.  She usually runs to a camera and starts talking ninety miles a minute whenever something happens in the case.  Maybe she is embarrassed about claming Caylee was alive all this time.  Maybe she fears some sort of prosecution of her for misleading police or for outright lying to them.  Maybe she is grieving and just cannot face the world.  Maybe she is afraid that something she says may cause Casey to accuse her or George or Lee of something.  Casey and Baez may well try to throw the others under the bus somehow, by claiming abuse or by suggesting they helped her in some way. 

Casey is spiteful and beligerant.  She will not want to see her parents and brother out making money, going on tv, and living their lives while she is locked up.  And if Cindy starts to praise Caylee, talk about how much she loved Caylee, have a memorial to Caylee, etc., it may anger a jealous Casey.

BTW, when are they going to bury that dear child?

Very good Hudson!! 

[Hudsunn]

Desdemona, Cindy did ask if they could meet with Casey IN PRIVATE.  Maybe she wanted to strangle Casey and did not want it on tape.  LOL  I doubt if anyone would want to convict her for that.  Or maybe she wanted to ask Casey pointblank about certain things and see just how far Casey would go to lie.  Or maybe she wanted to "look into your eyes, Casey" as she said at one jail visit.  Cindy claims she could always tell if Casey was lying by looking into her eyes.  But Baez is smart to keep them apart.  If they started screaming and accusing, it would be on tape.

[Wyks]

Are ya kidding us?  Scared??  Heck no!  We are curious monkeys after all.  heh

<insert pic here of the monkey with nose pressed against the cage bars, trying to see better>    

     Wyks, you really shouldn't set yourself up for such dissapointment.     


[/quote]

       

[BooMonkey]

I just feel so sad because this entire case has become more about money and fame rather than justice for Caylee. The only people really concerned about finding justice for this precious little girl is LE. All of these "high profile" professionals are already counting the dollars they will reap from book deals, movie royalties and interviews.  I don't believe for one minute that any of them truly believe that KC is innocent and has been framed for the murder of her child.  By being a part of the defense team, they will have the inside scoop on the case and this information will be a very valuable asset for them.  I don't even believe they really care about KC.  IMO, they all know she's guilty and are just hopping on the publicity train in order to further their own careers.  How sad!!!

This is why the Ant's are the most hated family in America. No one shed a tear, no one pleaded with "The Nanny" to bring her back, they didn't give TES an item of Caylee's so the dogs could find her quicker. She was a commodity to be bought and sold. Very sad indeed!

[BooMonkey]

Hudsunn, good to see you in the cage, I always enjoy reading your posts.

How do the Anthony's sleep at night?  Lots of medication, I'm thinkin'!

I am thinking this will take its toll on either GA or LEE. For some reason I can't shake the feeling one of them is going die.  If this is connected to a much larger criminal enterprise, it may not be by natural causes.

I think George has already entertained these thoughts with the purchase of his gun. I hope they didn't give it back to him! 

[trimmonthelake]

Okies.. just want to throw this into the mix, seems as good a place as any..

My oldest son is a classic sociopath, it seems.  Not diagnosed... yet, because he absolutely definitely refuses to see a psych doc.  He's straight up spitting image (in looks and behaviors) of his father, my ex, who also seems to be a classic sociopath.  I kicked my ex to the curb 22 years ago when said son was 6 yrs old.  My oldest and I were abused severely by that pathetic excuse for a man, and it took me 4 years to figure out that I *could* survive on my own with children at my side, and get up enough nerve to have his ass handed to him.  Little did I know at the time just how much my oldest son was abused by his father, not until 8 yrs later when he started spilling some of the truth.  It's a good thing for my ex that he had skipped the state and gone into hiding, cuz I'd be in prison today for (what seems to me to be) justifiable homicide. 

I'm drawn to cases such as this and Stacy Peterson's, etc.  because I'm scared of what and who my son has become.  In some way I'm hoping to learn from these cases, so that I can be even more on the alert for things to watch for in my son.  Scared to death for my grandson, now 2 yrs old, and his mama.  I've already helped her (from 2 hrs away at the time) get herself and grandson out of their house and away from my son, who had just hit her.  The darn girl came back... twice!  I've moved here to be in the midst of the fray, just to protect my grandson, if it comes to that again.  Sigh. 

I'm scared spitless of my oldest son.  Scared of his rage, of what he could do.  Yes I am seeing my own therapist, even tho I am a LCSW myself.  We are working on this very issue.  I'm writing this because I know there are others out there reading, who are in a similiar spot in there offline lives.  We can give each other support in here, giving each other strength.  We can learn from cases like this how to better protect ourselves, warning signs of what to watch for. 

I've already told my therapist, and now I'm telling all y'all... If I ever end up dead or go missing, I sure do hope that Tim Miller from TES is called and you monkeys notified immediately.  I have every confidence that my case would be solved.  My thanks to all of you for being here, for paying attention to every lil detail, for helping countless folks that you may not even be aware of. 

You have my support and very willing to listen and help anyway I can, I have really not much experience except a cousin that was a sociopath and is now dead, he commited suicide. I always enjoy your posts and humor. I am very sorry you have to live like this.

I'm in.I repsect your honesty.You can go for years hiding and covering up and then when something terrible happens...people don't get it.
When my previous husband commited suicide years ago it almost destroyed our family.
whether its depression,domestic violence or dealing with any number of social issues,you need friends.
We monkeys aere here for you. 

[Jerseygirl345]

Wyks, I think there are far more sociopaths and psychopaths walking around that we ever imagine.  I am so sorry for your situation and hope that your son will get some help, if he can be helped, at this stage.  Your husband was one of the more obvious sociopaths.  There seem to be many who can hide their sick minds behind oceans of charm and persuasiveness.  But sooner or later, that lack of empathy for others will express itself.

It seems to me that Baez wanted the body to remain unfound forever if possible, but certainly until after the trial.  If there were no body, it would be harder to convict Casey of killing her, and they would have gone on saying that she was out there somewhere alive and needed to be brought home.  Finding the body presents problems for Baez all around.  I doubt he had anything to do with getting it found.  However, he may have known where it was and hoped it would remain unfound until he could get Casey acquitted.  If found after that, it would be too late because of double jeopardy.  I am sure they delighted in seeing the police chasing cell phone pings near the airport, etc.

Concerning Casey and her family, I really think that Casey wanted to see and talk to her family as long as it was useful to her, but now that they are of no real help to her, I doubt she cares whether she sees them or not.  I don't think she has any great love for her parents, though she may have some bond with Lee.  But since she told Tony Lee abused her, it does not seem she cares that much for him, either. 

I disagree with people who say that Cindy is not the boss of the family.  I think George and Lee cater to her and do what she says.  The only thing that might make them stand up for themselves is the possibility of charges against them. 

I cannot figure out what Cindy is thinking now.  If she has a grain of sense, she knows that Casey killed Caylee to spite her and to punish her.  If she loved Caylee as much as she seemed to, she must be seething with anger toward Casey now.  I would be.  If she is still trying to defend Casey, it must be because there are family secrets that bind them all. 

She sure is keeping a low profile and that is not her nature.  She usually runs to a camera and starts talking ninety miles a minute whenever something happens in the case.  Maybe she is embarrassed about claming Caylee was alive all this time.  Maybe she fears some sort of prosecution of her for misleading police or for outright lying to them.  Maybe she is grieving and just cannot face the world.  Maybe she is afraid that something she says may cause Casey to accuse her or George or Lee of something.  Casey and Baez may well try to throw the others under the bus somehow, by claiming abuse or by suggesting they helped her in some way. 

Casey is spiteful and beligerant.  She will not want to see her parents and brother out making money, going on tv, and living their lives while she is locked up.  And if Cindy starts to praise Caylee, talk about how much she loved Caylee, have a memorial to Caylee, etc., it may anger a jealous Casey.

BTW, when are they going to bury that dear child?

I love your post Hudsunn. I wish I could write like you do.. I still think they intended to have 2 services for Caylee one for the public and one private- a private service for Casey to attend.
I am just waiting now for a motion put in by Baazz for Casey to beable to attend Caylee's funeral..

[QuietMonkey]

It doesn't sound nuts at all. I don't know what to think anymore, but my gut is telling me this with the PI and the video, and the three calls the meter man made, then the stumbling upon the remains, this is not good, something very wrong happening with the defense, and Anthonys. All I hope is LE gets to the bottom of this, and soon.

I agree no rose, something is wrong about all of it! I'm really suspicious about alot of this stuff. Really I just don't know what to believe. I just don't think a video "proves" she wasn't there, just proves that it wasn't visible to the camera. But, I think it's very suspicious any PI's were out there filming that area, then the meter reader shows up 4mos later. This is not long after the defense gets the tips. Maybe they got the MR's name from the tips, and someone gave him an anonymous call saying "hey go check it out again" or something to that effect. I don't know, just taking a wild guess about that, but nothing is too strange in this case!!

I didn't hear that Baez picked up the cd of tips ????? or is this something else and I need to get my other hat 

Good point Sea!! I had ASSumed that after all the big deal he made about NOT getting the tips, that he actually did go get them after they were released. I could be very wrong about that. As I said, that was an assumption on my part. Well, I mean, maybe he did get the tips and I read it somewhere, but I honestly can't say I remember reading it anywhere that he did!  Yikes!!   Uggghhh!! I don't know anything anymore. Me a confused Monkey!! Helllllllppppppp!!!!

Better go back to cleaning!! 

[no rose colored glasses]

I think the "menu" had to do with food, as anyone would expect.  I remember Casey mentioning bagels and Cindy saying that Caylee did like bagels with cream cheese.

Yes, Casey said it was her menu, and Cindy mentioning that Caylee liked bagels as well, and Casey seemed put off that Cindy would mention that Caylee liked bagels as well. And I am wondering as well when they will bury or cremate Caylee, but to them there is no hurry. I am also wondering if they haven't already cremated Caylee, it would make sense to have done this over Christmas holidays, but who knows with this bunch of losers.

[trimmonthelake]

Wow Wyks, I know that had to be hard to share. You are caught between a rock and a hard place and my heart goes out to you! You are a brave person to put yourself in the line of fire to protect your DIL and Grandson. I truly hope your DIL wakes up and takes the baby with her. You just make sure you post here everyday and make sure everyone in your life knows your schedule and where you are supposed to be! I will worry about you!! 

Me too Wyks.   

[Anninflorida]

Although it would have been beneficial for JB's case if a body had never been found, we have to remember many people have been convicted of first degree murder with no body ever found.  Now, with a body found and a video to support the fact that the body was not there on a certain date will help him build enough of a defense to place reasonable doubt in a juror's mind.  He can argue that the body was placed there by an unknown person while his client was in jail.  Also, the fact that the cause of death cannot be determined should help his case. If there are no traces of chloroform found and the neck was not broken, that damages prosecutions introduction of the items from the computer searches.  Just IMO, his defense case will be stronger if this video holds up.  Personally, I think this video has been his secret little "ace in the hole" that he has referred to on several occasions.  I imagine that LE is working overtime to put these pieces together right now. The PI has to be able to "sell" the fact that this was a random video recording and not a pre-planned recording. 

[Golden Oldie]

If Baez knew as it appears now where the body was and everyone else did too, they may have "arranged" the entire "finding' of the body. They may have even moved the body so it could be found more easily. I do believe LP when he said the PI found it before, and if that is true, then there are a lot of people who are going to be accessories after the fact and for a murder those are very serious felony charges.


I try to limit myself to only one stupid question a day   so here it goes.  Even tho Baez is KC's attorney and there's the confidentiality thing, isn't there a line drawn where an attorney can be charged with obstruction of justice, such as stated above?  Even just knowing where Caylee's dead body remains were located?