Natalee Case Discussion #788 12/31/08 - 1/01/09

[San]

ldstlou wrote:
Tim Miller wasn't removed from anywhere...are you kidding me? You really think he would allow himself to be removed? He was following up a lead in Nicaragua.
------------------


I'm sorry to say - yes he was.  Along with Dateline.

Dec 30th, Kyle and Tim Miller discussed this issue in detail, but they didn't know how to handle it.  Then Kyle took a nap.  When he got up, Tim and Dateline had been ejected from the boat.

ldstlou, I don't know what fairy tales Kyle and others are now telling you, but Kyle's posts (with IP, date and time) are in their original form from when he posted them.  This item was discussed over several posts.

The Nicarauga thing didn't happen for a few more days after that, IIRC.

Exactly, Jen.  IIRC, Kyle stated that Dec 30th was "crushing" - that Tim Miller and Dateline were REMOVED from the boat.

At who's request would they have been removed from the ship?  By Mos or John Silvetti?  They is all unreal that this could have happened.  Kyle specifically asked us what we thought they should do IF they found Natalee's remains and it was a resounding "Take her remains and leave and bring her home to her family". 

This may have already been answered, just trying to catch up here.

Tim Miller was removed by John Silvetti himself on December 30th.

And it was actually private eye who posed the question about if remains were found - on December 30th

Thanks Jen.  So who was in charge on this ship, John Silvetti or Schaffer?  Who was calling the shots with the Arubans?

John Silvetti was project manager and according to Kyle it was John who talked to the Arubans including Hans Mos.

So was Kyle on board Jan. 7th and did he not attempt to take any pictures of the divers removing the contents of the cage or was he off the ship?

Kyle was on board and so was John Silvetti. According to Kyle, the ROV unit was filming the Aruban divers as they retried the evidence from the cage and they dove from their boat and returned to their boat.

And the pictures of these-Is the FBI and family in possession of these pictures from the ROV?  OR is that the pictures you posted here? 

Yes those are in possession of the family and fbi and john q. kelly.

I stand with the Frog...

With that said, if Silvetti is part of the coverup, why would he allow the the ROV to record the recovery of the evidence? He must of known the ROV was recording the whole thing right? Why take the risk of the tape getting leaked?

Maybe he wanted to insure he wouldn't be doublecrossed.  Would this be called "Insurance".  So much for insurance I say.  But then again I'm a nut.

[Kermit]

DON'T EAT THE OTHER WHITE MEAT

[texasmom]

Well Monkeys ... it is snowing again but ... hubby and I will attempt another treck into the big city.  New Years Day is the time for celebrating in the Japanese tradition so ... a family reunion of sorts on hubby's side of the family is where it is at for those who can make it.  My daughter and family are driving into Vancouver for the party from the Eastern Fraser Valley but ... both sons, DILs and grandson will be a no show ... other plans with inlaws.  I hate sharing.

 

Tomorrow after getting the tree down and putting decorations away ... everything will be back to normal.

 

I love routine.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Janet
11:55 AM PT

 

I hope you have a wonderful day Janet!  I'm preparing a New Year's Day Feast for the family, youngest son requested more dressing like I made for Christmas!  (Gained huge brownie points)  Baking a ham for them, and a large crow for me!    

Happy New Year!

TM, no black eyed peas and cabbage?  We think here that if you
don't have those things on New Year's Day you won't have enough
money all year to keep the wolf from the door.

Magnolia,
I just didn't list all the sides....black eyed peas, corn casserole, boiled cabbage, rolls & cornbread; and cherry/pineapple delight or chocolate pie for dessert.  I would never dare not have my black eyed peas for New Year's Day, and I cook the cabbage too but I'm the only one that will eat it!

[Keepthefaith]

Kermit, has Jossy inserted himself in all this innocently or on purpose?

Still to be determined.

You still have a fighting chance Janet! I'm still open on Jossy as well but can get over how someone in his family doesn't know exactly what happen.JMOO.Jossy or a family memeber could have givin the scenario up a long time ago "IF" they know what happen!I to hope Jossy is a good guy but i'm not leaning that way...

[hotping]

Thank you Patriot.

If I remember correctly and maybe Jen or Winger or Sharon or Angie recall better then I - Kyle said that they didn't know the ROV unit was filming. Kyle took screenshots from it and it is on his computer.

I wonder if Silvetti knew that the ROV was filming the recovery of the trap contents? 

[San]

Well Monkeys ... it is snowing again but ... hubby and I will attempt another treck into the big city.  New Years Day is the time for celebrating in the Japanese tradition so ... a family reunion of sorts on hubby's side of the family is where it is at for those who can make it.  My daughter and family are driving into Vancouver for the party from the Eastern Fraser Valley but ... both sons, DILs and grandson will be a no show ... other plans with inlaws.  I hate sharing.

 

Tomorrow after getting the tree down and putting decorations away ... everything will be back to normal.

 

I love routine.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Janet
11:55 AM PT

 

I hope you have a wonderful day Janet!  I'm preparing a New Year's Day Feast for the family, youngest son requested more dressing like I made for Christmas!  (Gained huge brownie points)  Baking a ham for them, and a large crow for me!    

Happy New Year!

TM, no black eyed peas and cabbage?  We think here that if you
don't have those things on New Year's Day you won't have enough
money all year to keep the wolf from the door.

Magnolia,
I just didn't list all the sides....black eyed peas, corn casserole, boiled cabbage, rolls & cornbread; and cherry/pineapple delight or chocolate pie for dessert.  I would never dare not have my black eyed peas for New Year's Day, and I cook the cabbage too but I'm the only one that will eat it!

Yum....New Years Day isn't a big day in our household.

[Magnolia]

Well Monkeys ... it is snowing again but ... hubby and I will attempt another treck into the big city.  New Years Day is the time for celebrating in the Japanese tradition so ... a family reunion of sorts on hubby's side of the family is where it is at for those who can make it.  My daughter and family are driving into Vancouver for the party from the Eastern Fraser Valley but ... both sons, DILs and grandson will be a no show ... other plans with inlaws.  I hate sharing.

 

Tomorrow after getting the tree down and putting decorations away ... everything will be back to normal.

 

I love routine.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Janet
11:55 AM PT

 

I hope you have a wonderful day Janet!  I'm preparing a New Year's Day Feast for the family, youngest son requested more dressing like I made for Christmas!  (Gained huge brownie points)  Baking a ham for them, and a large crow for me!    

Happy New Year!

TM, no black eyed peas and cabbage?  We think here that if you
don't have those things on New Year's Day you won't have enough
money all year to keep the wolf from the door.

Magnolia,
I just didn't list all the sides....black eyed peas, corn casserole, boiled cabbage, rolls & cornbread; and cherry/pineapple delight or chocolate pie for dessert.  I would never dare not have my black eyed peas for New Year's Day, and I cook the cabbage too but I'm the only one that will eat it!

I am so glad, TM.  I didn't want you to be penniless all year.
I was worried.

[SS]

Kermit - I have spent hours thinking and now, as usual, I have a lot of questions.  Would you please tell us more about the pond and why you think the sneaker and some human remains have been put there.  Do you know who drained the pond in March - was it ALE , Jossy, Ecotech, Silvetti, or nobody?  We were told that 40 - 50 Dutch forensic experts searched the dry pond and the surrounding neighborhood at night under the lights.  Last night the Freebirds were saying that this didn't happen.  If the pond story isn't true, then the pond witness isn't true.  Is the Matty Apt. story true? 

#674 on: Today at 10:40:21 AM   SS
Kermit - I have spent hours thinking and now, as usual, I have a lot of questions.  Would you please tell us more about the pond and why you think the sneaker and some human remains have been put there.  Do you know who drained the pond in March - was it ALE , Jossy, Ecotech, Silvetti, or nobody?  We were told that 40 - 50 Dutch forensic experts searched the dry pond and the surrounding neighborhood at night under the lights.  Last night the Freebirds were saying that this didn't happen.  If the pond story isn't true, then the pond witness isn't true.  Is the Matty Apt. story true?
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4328.msg607178#msg607178

 
#926 on: December 03, 2008, 12:03:25 AM   SS
Speaking of Imelda's shoes brings a question to mind about Urine's shoes.  The pond witness saw him walking without one shoe.  Did he specify if Urine was missing a right shoe or a left shoe?  Supposedly there was a bloody shoe in Urine's closet that Paulass could have disposed of several days later.  Can we determine if it's a right shoe or a left shoe in the cage?  This could possibly clear up all of these shoes, especially since there are reports that one of Urine's shoes was also found in Monserat pond.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564821#msg564821

ACCORDING TO CAPS
March 8, 2008 CAPS POSTED - "I hope tomorrow we will have the final links into a final resolution about the pond. This coming week is THE DAY.
Me and J & W and the C's are all in agreement now that it must be there.
scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2680.560

FEB 28th - CAPS posts at SM that he is going to go there at 9:00 The sneaker is there

Nov. 20, 2008 -
 VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Did the -- did -- was there ever any follow-up to see whether or not your witness had information that was truly helpful? Did Hans Mos, even though he didn't believe him -- did he at least assign someone to go out and investigate and look at that pond area?

HOLLOWAY: No, he didn't. You know, we had asked him to. And in fact, we had planned to go excavate the pond ourselves, and these hurricanes came through and one came close to Aruba and filled the pond back up with water. It's still our plan to go back. I think Hans Mos and I discussed, you know, Natalee's not in the pond, but we believe that, you know, he could possibly find a tennis shoe, maybe her driver's license or even some of Natalee's clothing, which would help lead into, you know, the timeline. And also, this witness implicates Paulus van der Sloot. So if that's the case, you know, that needs to be done.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455069,00.html


ACCORDING TO KYLE
May 16 - Kyle posted: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains. The witness claims to have seen a muddy Joran coming out of the Monserat pond after disposing of her body.
<snip>
The 40+ investigators brought in from Holland never stepped foot in the pond


ACCORDING TO JOHN SILVETTI]b]
John Silvetti's email to Kyle: The Polis did not drain that pond and they did not search it, period!

ACCORDING TO JOSSY
#915 on: June 04, 2008, 09:42:53 PM   *******

I am confused just about one thing..Jossy said he didn't know anything about the search at Montserat Pond,except for a rumor from a witness about Joran in the area..We all saw the pictures..We all heard what OE and Caps said,,WTF? That Pond did not drain by itself and remove a top layer of soil 10-20 feet across in one section by itself. You can fool some of the people some of the time,but you cant fool us any of the time.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2879.msg387020#msg387020

ACCORDING TO HOTSHOT - source for CAPS
Hotshot posted:
CAPS knows Silvetti from me  Silvetti did do the pond and then they wouldnt let him back in after all the maps were made of the pond.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg553102#msg553102

BACK in July 11, 2006, 05:39:05 PM »
Hotshot: "I just feel those ponds that "WONT" be searched is a place that needs to be.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=63.msg13147#msg13147


John did go back to work with CAPS 2 times that I know of, to Aruba, about the Monstart pond.  He was with CAPS the whole time,
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555976#msg555976

Kermit - thanks so much.  I think I am even more confused than I was before.  From what you have just showed us, the Monserat Pond wasn't searched according to Kyle and John Silvetti.  Jossy doesn't appear to have any information about the pond being searched.  If I recall, even Renfro at the time was saying that the pond was drained and searched.   I know, though, that we were told in Shango that the Dutch dogs had arrived at customs, 40-50 Dutch forensic investigators were there, the pond was drained, photographs were taken, chains were put up, and the neighborhood around the pond was also searched.  We were told that the pond was drained and searched because of specific things that Kyle had identified with the side scan sonor.  Much of this took place at night and the lights from the soccer field were left on.  We have been given hints that a sneaker and unspecified human remains were found and taken by ALE.  We were shown a photograph of areas that were examined in the pond.

Am I losing my mind or does none of this add up???? 

I'm sorry, I have to edit what Renfro said.  I believe she was saying on RU that the pond was NOT drained and searched.

[Edward]

Kermit, has Jossy inserted himself in all this innocently or on purpose?

Still to be determined.

from day 1 ? ..on purpose.

[texasmom]

Thanks for your concern Magnolia, hopefully I'm covering those bases; if it happens it won't be because I didn't have my black eyed peas and cabbage!

 

[Patriot]

Thank you Patriot.

If I remember correctly and maybe Jen or Winger or Sharon or Angie recall better then I - Kyle said that they didn't know the ROV unit was filming. Kyle took screenshots from it and it is on his computer.

I wonder if Silvetti knew that the ROV was filming the recovery of the trap contents? 

Maybe he was a double agent? Expose the coverup, bring closure to the family, and make millions selling the tape all at the same time?

[Patriot]

Thank you Patriot.

If I remember correctly and maybe Jen or Winger or Sharon or Angie recall better then I - Kyle said that they didn't know the ROV unit was filming. Kyle took screenshots from it and it is on his computer.

I wonder if Silvetti knew that the ROV was filming the recovery of the trap contents? 

I can't believe I'm tying to defend the Persistence.

I just want to believe so bad that this was for NH and not something else.

Maybe he was a double agent? Expose the coverup, bring closure to the family, and make millions selling the tape all at the same time?

[Lifesong]

Kermit - thanks so much.  I think I am even more confused than I was before.  From what you have just showed us, the Monserat Pond wasn't searched according to Kyle and John Silvetti.  Jossy doesn't appear to have any information about the pond being searched.  If I recall, even Renfro at the time was saying that the pond was drained and searched.  I know, though, that we were told in Shango that the Dutch dogs had arrived at customs, 40-50 Dutch forensic investigators were there, the pond was drained, photographs were taken, chains were put up, and the neighborhood around the pond was also searched.  We were told that the pond was drained and searched because of specific things that Kyle had identified with the side scan sonor.  Much of this took place at night and the lights from the soccer field were left on.  We have been given hints that a sneaker and unspecified human remains were found and taken by ALE.  We were shown a photograph of areas that were examined in the pond.

Am I losing my mind or does none of this add up???? 

IMHO, believing that requires pre-assuming that ALE & the Dutch are interested in solving, or at least investigating, this case.   

That's just not the ALE/Dutch involvement that I'm familiar with.   

SS, I think your math skills are accurate,    and you are *not* losing your mind! 

[Kermit]

Kermit - I have spent hours thinking and now, as usual, I have a lot of questions.  Would you please tell us more about the pond and why you think the sneaker and some human remains have been put there.  Do you know who drained the pond in March - was it ALE , Jossy, Ecotech, Silvetti, or nobody?  We were told that 40 - 50 Dutch forensic experts searched the dry pond and the surrounding neighborhood at night under the lights.  Last night the Freebirds were saying that this didn't happen.  If the pond story isn't true, then the pond witness isn't true.  Is the Matty Apt. story true? 

#674 on: Today at 10:40:21 AM   SS
Kermit - I have spent hours thinking and now, as usual, I have a lot of questions.  Would you please tell us more about the pond and why you think the sneaker and some human remains have been put there.  Do you know who drained the pond in March - was it ALE , Jossy, Ecotech, Silvetti, or nobody?  We were told that 40 - 50 Dutch forensic experts searched the dry pond and the surrounding neighborhood at night under the lights.  Last night the Freebirds were saying that this didn't happen.  If the pond story isn't true, then the pond witness isn't true.  Is the Matty Apt. story true?
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4328.msg607178#msg607178

 
#926 on: December 03, 2008, 12:03:25 AM   SS
Speaking of Imelda's shoes brings a question to mind about Urine's shoes.  The pond witness saw him walking without one shoe.  Did he specify if Urine was missing a right shoe or a left shoe?  Supposedly there was a bloody shoe in Urine's closet that Paulass could have disposed of several days later.  Can we determine if it's a right shoe or a left shoe in the cage?  This could possibly clear up all of these shoes, especially since there are reports that one of Urine's shoes was also found in Monserat pond.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564821#msg564821

ACCORDING TO CAPS
March 8, 2008 CAPS POSTED - "I hope tomorrow we will have the final links into a final resolution about the pond. This coming week is THE DAY.
Me and J & W and the C's are all in agreement now that it must be there.
scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2680.560

FEB 28th - CAPS posts at SM that he is going to go there at 9:00 The sneaker is there

Nov. 20, 2008 -
 VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Did the -- did -- was there ever any follow-up to see whether or not your witness had information that was truly helpful? Did Hans Mos, even though he didn't believe him -- did he at least assign someone to go out and investigate and look at that pond area?

HOLLOWAY: No, he didn't. You know, we had asked him to. And in fact, we had planned to go excavate the pond ourselves, and these hurricanes came through and one came close to Aruba and filled the pond back up with water. It's still our plan to go back. I think Hans Mos and I discussed, you know, Natalee's not in the pond, but we believe that, you know, he could possibly find a tennis shoe, maybe her driver's license or even some of Natalee's clothing, which would help lead into, you know, the timeline. And also, this witness implicates Paulus van der Sloot. So if that's the case, you know, that needs to be done.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455069,00.html


ACCORDING TO KYLE
May 16 - Kyle posted: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains. The witness claims to have seen a muddy Joran coming out of the Monserat pond after disposing of her body.
<snip>
The 40+ investigators brought in from Holland never stepped foot in the pond


ACCORDING TO JOHN SILVETTI]b]
John Silvetti's email to Kyle: The Polis did not drain that pond and they did not search it, period!

ACCORDING TO JOSSY
#915 on: June 04, 2008, 09:42:53 PM   *******

I am confused just about one thing..Jossy said he didn't know anything about the search at Montserat Pond,except for a rumor from a witness about Joran in the area..We all saw the pictures..We all heard what OE and Caps said,,WTF? That Pond did not drain by itself and remove a top layer of soil 10-20 feet across in one section by itself. You can fool some of the people some of the time,but you cant fool us any of the time.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2879.msg387020#msg387020

ACCORDING TO HOTSHOT - source for CAPS
Hotshot posted:
CAPS knows Silvetti from me  Silvetti did do the pond and then they wouldnt let him back in after all the maps were made of the pond.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg553102#msg553102

BACK in July 11, 2006, 05:39:05 PM »
Hotshot: "I just feel those ponds that "WONT" be searched is a place that needs to be.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=63.msg13147#msg13147


John did go back to work with CAPS 2 times that I know of, to Aruba, about the Monstart pond.  He was with CAPS the whole time,
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555976#msg555976

Kermit - thanks so much.  I think I am even more confused than I was before.  From what you have just showed us, the Monserat Pond wasn't searched according to Kyle and John Silvetti.  Jossy doesn't appear to have any information about the pond being searched.  If I recall, even Renfro at the time was saying that the pond was drained and searched.   I know, though, that we were told in Shango that the Dutch dogs had arrived at customs, 40-50 Dutch forensic investigators were there, the pond was drained, photographs were taken, chains were put up, and the neighborhood around the pond was also searched.  We were told that the pond was drained and searched because of specific things that Kyle had identified with the side scan sonor.  Much of this took place at night and the lights from the soccer field were left on.  We have been given hints that a sneaker and unspecified human remains were found and taken by ALE.  We were shown a photograph of areas that were examined in the pond.

Am I losing my mind or does none of this add up???? 

I'm sorry, I have to edit what Renfro said.  I believe she was saying on RU that the pond was NOT drained and searched.

Here is CAPS take on it
8. OM give instruction to clean up the Pond but, the Santarosa group did not clean it up, since the ground was still muddy and it was posponed but then the rain came and is now full to the brim. Got new pictures.
9. the pond is now offlimited by a chain across the drive way entrance.

10. spoke to Selvetty and asked a lot of question...
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838#msg564838

[Patriot]

Thank you Patriot.

If I remember correctly and maybe Jen or Winger or Sharon or Angie recall better then I - Kyle said that they didn't know the ROV unit was filming. Kyle took screenshots from it and it is on his computer.

I wonder if Silvetti knew that the ROV was filming the recovery of the trap contents? 

I can't believe I'm tying to defend the Persistence.

I just want to believe so bad that this was for NH and not something else.

Maybe he was a double agent? Expose the coverup, bring closure to the family, and make millions selling the tape all at the same time?

Sorry, messed up the quote... Back to lurking.

I can't believe I'm tying to defend the Persistence.

I just want to believe so bad that this was for NH and not something else.

[Kermit]

Kyle to RED at SM:
I am the one who made those screen captures from live ROV footage.
You foolishly thought they were taken from the footage on Dateline!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2660.msg357379#msg357379

[Kermit]

From Kyle: THis is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit - thanks so much.  I think I am even more confused than I was before.  From what you have just showed us, the Monserat Pond wasn't searched according to Kyle and John Silvetti.  Jossy doesn't appear to have any information about the pond being searched.   If I recall, even Renfro at the time was saying that the pond was drained and searched.  I know, though, that we were told in Shango that the Dutch dogs had arrived at customs, 40-50 Dutch forensic investigators were there, the pond was drained, photographs were taken, chains were put up, and the neighborhood around the pond was also searched.  We were told that the pond was drained and searched because of specific things that Kyle had identified with the side scan sonor.  Much of this took place at night and the lights from the soccer field were left on.  We have been given hints that a sneaker and unspecified human remains were found and taken by ALE.  We were shown a photograph of areas that were examined in the pond.

Am I losing my mind or does none of this add up???? 

SS ... I could not comprehend why there was no media attention encompassing Monserat Pond search.

As I have said when CAPS submitted his initial posts ... it is my contention that CAPS placed himself on the SM forum or ... was placed by higher ups to distract from the Persistence undertaking ... an undertaking that had discovered a cage/trap on the ocean floor that could hold the remains of Natalee Holloway.

At this period in time ... I do believe that Jossy was in the dark regarding any wrongdoing encompassing the Persistence undertaking.  At this point in time there had not been a connection with CAPS and John Silvetti..

Also ... I do not believe at this period of time that Kyle was an active participatant in regards to any wrongdoing ... just a concerned *******.

Apparently Kyle Kingman's intentions were to report to the family/FBI his suspicions regarding the happening encompassing the Persistence undertaking when he returned from Aruba.  However ... there appears there was a change of heart and ... self-serving interests was where it was at.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

[Kermit]

From Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.
Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

[Kermit]

Kyle stated: "The bags were deliberately placed there after the divers sampled the contents. The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off. "