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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #788 12/31/08 - 1/01/09  (Read 212427 times)
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Kermit
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« Reply #840 on: January 01, 2009, 04:11:32 PM »

Jan 30 - Caps emails Dave "To get Natalee Body you have to come to Aruba and arrange for some large Pumps that can drain a small pond. It has an odd shape.

January 30 - I started to look at the case of Natalee on Dec 22, 2007 and I wrote a research report that was send to the FBI
I send it to klaasend for review and that's how I got here. The results was a place that everyone overlooked.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg333988#msg333988

Feb 27 - Sonar used on Pond
February 28, 2008, 07:24:57 PM
My C.S.I Degree from the University of Cryptologic consist of Simian 101, Simian 102, and Strategic Cryptology science given by Prof. Clyde Burk.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg357022#msg357022

CONTENTS INSIDE THAT CAGE:
I was convinced about the object being a skull in the Dec 29th dive.What I do know is that there is blue fabric found on the 7th of Jand a piece of blue tarp. This is reluctantly confirmed by Richardson and Mos.

CAPS:
John state the cage was empty. it was full of these broken plastic bags that shows on the cam like skull,
 but he said to me it is the water doing tricks when picture was taken.

He thinks also it is a postoffice. When I told him the story about the cage, he also understand now some things that he could not have question about. Like why is the Panter allways parked over the spot while there is notting anymore in he cage.


The meeting end at 5:00 pm and was very good.



By December 21, the search team had an accurate model cage and was able to drop it into the water and obtain a sonar signature of the cage.
http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

Tim Miller also continued to believe the body was in the ocean.

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html


Red posted to Kyle in response to Kyles allegations regarding the pictures: "The pictures are, according to the FBI of a crab trap and nothing to do with Natalee Holloway. NO DNA!!! So how could it possible be interfering with an investigation!!! Quit the drama! "

If the trap was of no relation to Natalee's body being found then why the sudden accusations and upset at Red thinking
he did something that harmed "their investigation"?



the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only.
<snip>
the FBI gave them to Dave H

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047#msg360047





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Kermit
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« Reply #841 on: January 01, 2009, 04:14:36 PM »

FROM CAPS:
 
February 10, 2008 10:42:33 PM
Subject: Taking matters in Our oun Hands.


Dear friend who is seeking the truth and Family

Since January 1st, 2008, I have said that they never went to the beach, The body of Natalee was deposit in an Murky Pool in Aruba. I have established a group that is willing to start on the project of retrieving the body. I have contacted Dave, via Email and Phone and it is amazing that he is not returning my Emails and Calls. I saw him all over the TV and CABLE channels but does he has a plan to come to Aruba ?.
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iris44
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« Reply #842 on: January 01, 2009, 04:26:52 PM »

Johan's post on the previous thread regarding the dive company from Rotterdam's analysis of the ROV pictures seems pretty convincing, but there has not been much discussion about it.  Does anyone else find their analysis  fairly convincing that there was no skull in the cage?  Maybe Kyle was scamming everyone and just trying to make money off selling the pics (which he knew were not a body) to the networks.  If that is true, that could be why he did not send the info to the family and the FBI.   Maybe the networks wouldn't buy the pics because they also new it was not a body.
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bastibro
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« Reply #843 on: January 01, 2009, 04:37:33 PM »

Johan's post on the previous thread regarding the dive company from Rotterdam's analysis of the ROV pictures seems pretty convincing, but there has not been much discussion about it.  Does anyone else find their analysis  fairly convincing that there was no skull in the cage?  Maybe Kyle was scamming everyone and just trying to make money off selling the pics (which he knew were not a body) to the networks.  If that is true, that could be why he did not send the info to the family and the FBI.   Maybe the networks wouldn't buy the pics because they also new it was not a body.

Hi Iris, i am convinced that there was no human skull in the cage. However i do think there were human remains there(hipsocket, buttbones).
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #844 on: January 01, 2009, 04:40:01 PM »

The finger is still pointing at Aruba and those involved in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  It doesn't matter who or how many...they have the ability to solve this case. 

Bags and a cage may be important, was there DNA testing of any remains or samples?  Natalee may still be out there, somewhere in one of the other targets.

The finger is still shining on Aruba.    Twisted Evil

imho
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klaasend
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« Reply #845 on: January 01, 2009, 04:55:37 PM »

Kyle to RED at SM:
I am the one who made those screen captures from live ROV footage.
You foolishly thought they were taken from the footage on Dateline!


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2660.msg357379#msg357379

I was gone for a bit and just got back.  To be clear, Kyle is referring to the picture that Robin allowed to be posted at BNH.
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Anna
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« Reply #846 on: January 01, 2009, 04:56:59 PM »

>We are currently in the dry season and have not had rain for well over two months. The pond you are referring to has dried up. The information that that pond or any other pond was drained lately, is not based on the truth.<

The above I received on June 10 directly from the Office of OM.  No one drained the pond.  It is just seasonally dry. 
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Anna
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« Reply #847 on: January 01, 2009, 05:04:34 PM »

If you go back to the very first photos posted of the pond, the one of the two pipes is labeled INLETS.  Not outlets.  They are for draining the area around the pond into it and not out as they are also shown to be well above the water line.

I posted about this at the time but of course it was totally ignored.  You don't drain from a high point, etc.

And around this time, there was in fact a private search being conducted but was for Jose Tromp and had nothing to do with Natalee.

There were no 40 Dutch investigators.



I always wondered why we were being told otherwise.

.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #848 on: January 01, 2009, 05:10:45 PM »

Johan's post on the previous thread regarding the dive company from Rotterdam's analysis of the ROV pictures seems pretty convincing, but there has not been much discussion about it.  Does anyone else find their analysis  fairly convincing that there was no skull in the cage?  Maybe Kyle was scamming everyone and just trying to make money off selling the pics (which he knew were not a body) to the networks.  If that is true, that could be why he did not send the info to the family and the FBI.   Maybe the networks wouldn't buy the pics because they also new it was not a body.

Hi Iris, i am convinced that there was no human skull in the cage. However i do think there were human remains there(hipsocket, buttbones).

Hi Bastibro-  indulge me for a moment.  Please take a look at the pictures from 12/29 and then look at pictures from 1/7 when the objects are in the ziplock bags.  Does the object believed to be a skull on the 29th have the same appearance as the object believed to be a skull on 1/7.  They look very different to me.  Could something have been changed between 12/29 and 1/7?
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Anna
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« Reply #849 on: January 01, 2009, 05:14:48 PM »

Once a chain of custody is broken, there is no way to repair it.  Even if this were taken to an international court, there would be no way to prove anything ALE said was not so.

And they would just contend that they sent to the FBI everything they found.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Nut44x4
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RIP Grumpy Cat :( I will miss you.


« Reply #850 on: January 01, 2009, 05:16:43 PM »

REMINDER for those who may want to watch again >>

The Final Hours of Natalee Holloway: E! News Special

Tue, Dec 30, 10:00 AM 11 AM ETRun Time: 60 min.

The last days before Natalee Holloway's disappearance are explored.

Tue 12/30 10:00 AM-----11AM ET
Wed 12/31 12:00 AM-----1PM ET
Sat 1/3 5:00 PM-------6AM ET
Sun 1/4 8:00 AM------ 9AM ET
http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCProgram.do?pgmId=SH011191060000

hat tip Faith @ hftm
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RIP Grumpy Cat :( I will miss you.


« Reply #851 on: January 01, 2009, 05:18:40 PM »

http://mysite.verizon.net/lls.fm1/natalee.mp3

Lyrics by Ericka Harvey:

"NATALEE"

I know your out there, somewhere
I can feel your presence
Pulling me, closely
Now even more than ever
I promise, to find you
I will never stop until I do

Cause everytime my heart beats
I want to cry
And everytime I take a breath
I long for you by my side
Needing just to hold you if even for awhile
Someway, somehow….Natalee where are you now?

Lord can you hear me, calling
Seeking out your face
To see you, shine through
Every cold dark place
I pray for and wait for
You to take me in your sweet embrace

Chorus ...
Someway, somehow...Oh Lord stay here with me now!

Bridge:
Oh my precious child be still and know
I’m holding on to hope and I won’t let go
I need to have you here with me
This is my prayer…this is my plea

Chorus
Oh I need you with me now

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 JUSTICE 4 NATALEE in 2009
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One who doesn't trust is never deceived...

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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #852 on: January 01, 2009, 05:20:28 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372252#msg372252

Whiskeygirl posted:

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #500 on: April 08, 2008, 08:41:12 PM » 

Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BFN chat  -

The crew of the Persistence also did their own investigation while on Aruba.  They spoke with LE.  Someone asked what they thought of the investigators, and John noted that they didn't meet with any of the original investigators.  It's a new group working the case and they want the case solved.  He did not comment on the originals, as they never met them or worked with them.  They investigated old and new tips, psychics, nutcases, and all kinds of possibilities.  When on land, they took the time to investigate many things.  (I don't remember all the specifics, this would make a nice follow-up question) 

From what I remember, it seems like they looked at the stories that have been floating around for over two years from a "feet on the ground" perspective.  They noted that ALE has a number of possibilities still under consideration.  (my summary - the usual suspects, they just don't know what/how it happened)

Someone mentioned that when JVDS videos came out, there was a lot of interest in the mangroves at the fishermens huts.  Someone asked how many of the huts around the island had mangroves near them?  Could it have been a different set of fishermen huts?  Dave mentioned that mangroves are all over the island.

The beach at the lighthouse was brought up.  I remember pictures of some lower cliff/beach by the lighthouse, that may have had trees, it had a parking lot.  The beach area did not look like it was in the line of site from the upper area, it was secluded.  I don't remember where I saw that picture.
====================

Of the fishermen huts, this comes from Joran.  Could a trap have been stolen from the huts by the hotels, and the mangrove have been from another hut/beach area? 

The topic of the strike came up.  I was not aware of how many people were on strike.  It's not just police and air traffic controllers, but a lot of government employees.  Hopefully the strikers returned to work on Monday.  They haven't had a raise since the late 1990's. 
============

John mentioned that the Dutch/Euro people thought they were searching for oil when they started.  This brought up mention of RU, and what that site is about.  Also mentioned that the Dutch map people asked for their data so they could update their maps of the island data.
 
 
 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Nut44x4
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RIP Grumpy Cat :( I will miss you.


« Reply #853 on: January 01, 2009, 05:22:15 PM »

Chain of custody was broken EARLY ON ... there was a 'chain', but it was in the custody of ALE and every ounce went to what my mother used to call 'File 13'. Each and every time ANYTHING came to light.......it was 'taken care of.'
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« Reply #854 on: January 01, 2009, 05:27:35 PM »

Once a chain of custody is broken, there is no way to repair it.  Even if this were taken to an international court, there would be no way to prove anything ALE said was not so.

And they would just contend that they sent to the FBI everything they found.

I agree.We'll never know if it was or wasn't Natalee.Why?Because Silvetti was up to something.JMOO
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #855 on: January 01, 2009, 05:38:48 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756

March 13, 2008

Posts by Private Eye:

Quote
Unfortunately, those trusted with the evidence of the investigation were not good stewards of the evidence. Evidence has been destroyed, search activities delayed with no site protection accomplished by the authorities, and interrogations have been stopped at key points and the person being interrogated allowed to be counseled by parents and attorneys, and interrogations have been stopped just short of key questions being asked when the flow of good information was beginning to come out.

Prisoners being isolated have been furnished cell phones and communication has been allowed to occur between locked up and the free.

Do I think psychics are the answer? No.

But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that  regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history
.

Quote
I don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
nimrod
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« Reply #856 on: January 01, 2009, 05:52:18 PM »

Johan's post on the previous thread regarding the dive company from Rotterdam's analysis of the ROV pictures seems pretty convincing, but there has not been much discussion about it.  Does anyone else find their analysis  fairly convincing that there was no skull in the cage?  Maybe Kyle was scamming everyone and just trying to make money off selling the pics (which he knew were not a body) to the networks.  If that is true, that could be why he did not send the info to the family and the FBI.   Maybe the networks wouldn't buy the pics because they also new it was not a body.


Bingo!!

I've never seen one thing in that cage that looks like human remains to me.. I agree with you that "someone" could be trying to capitalize on a failed mission in the search for Natalee.
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bastibro
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« Reply #857 on: January 01, 2009, 05:59:10 PM »

Johan's post on the previous thread regarding the dive company from Rotterdam's analysis of the ROV pictures seems pretty convincing, but there has not been much discussion about it.  Does anyone else find their analysis  fairly convincing that there was no skull in the cage?  Maybe Kyle was scamming everyone and just trying to make money off selling the pics (which he knew were not a body) to the networks.  If that is true, that could be why he did not send the info to the family and the FBI.   Maybe the networks wouldn't buy the pics because they also new it was not a body.


Bingo!!

I've never seen one thing in that cage that looks like human remains to me.. I agree with you that "someone" could be trying to capitalize on a failed mission in the search for Natalee.

Well, what do you think this is?


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jen3560
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« Reply #858 on: January 01, 2009, 06:00:53 PM »



Did Kyle ever describe the protocol in terms of who Silvetti would speak with in terms of the ALE.Was it typically Mos or was it Richardson?Still curious as to Comemencia.He always seems to be around but seldom talked about.He's a little elusive!Thanx Jen.

The only people Kyle ever mentioned were Mos and Richardson.  He never did provide the names to us about any other ALE who were involved - at any stage.

That's when he started to clam up - when we asked him for other names, specifically of who was on board, and who the divers were.
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« Reply #859 on: January 01, 2009, 06:04:14 PM »

keepthefaith,

you are correct.  John Silvetti was the Project Lead (along with Tim Trahan and Tim Miller).

By the time jan 7 rolled around - the ONLY Project Lead left aboard was John Silvetti.

So even Tim Trahan was not on board Jan. 7th?  Where did he go?  So did anyone have footage of the Jan. 7th dive at all?  If not then Silvetti did his job well and betrayed the family completely.  Has anyone asked Jossy about his son and what he has to say about all of this?  Or is that why Jossy has become so quiet lately?  I like Jossy but (sorry) I have always had a rather funny feeling about his motives in all this.  Mostly is appears more political than anything.

I honestly don't recall if Kyle ever told us where Tim Trahan went - perhaps some of the other birdies could answer that one.

The footage of both the Dec 30 and Jan 7 dives were in a "safe place" that "only two people have access to - Silvetti, and a project manager of Silvetti's".  according to Kyle.

He did give us the name of that PM, but I don't recall it - again, maybe one of the other birdies can answer that.

But I did specifically ask Kyle if that PM was Shaefer - and was told no, then he gave us the guy's name.

So no - that footage, along with the log books, never left the hands of Silvetti once the Persistence was back home (that we knew of).

Except, of course, for what Kyle had on his computer.
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