Natalee Case Discussion #788 12/31/08 - 1/01/09

[wingnut]

Never any doubt in my mind that what was found in that trap were human remains. Natalee or not (I do think it was her), someone was in that cage/trap. No doubt ... right billb?   

I do as well. If the "remains" were not Natalee -- there would be no reason to be secretive or cover-up.

I agree! 

Kyle referred to the contents as REMAINS.  Not once, not twice - but over and over and over.

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #363 on: March 20, 2008, 02:36:39 AM »

Kyle said: "Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case.  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample"

Oceanexploration: "I never said there were no human remains"
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360330#msg360330


Kyle: "I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains

« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »

Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125

Thanks, Kermie.  See - this is what I was talking about, Anna.  Part of the contents of that bag look like Natalee's top - but others disagree.

[wingnut]

Oops, I should have said THIS in my post above:


Part of the contents of that bag look like Natalee's top TO ME

[Kermit]

Kyle said it was Blue denim-like fabric. Possible denim skirt
other possible fabric..unknown from the video what it is
Piece of blue tarp found 15-30 feet away from the trap opening - suggest scavenging.

[Anna]

OK, just for speculation, let's say Police Chief vdS is involved in hiring someone to dispose of remains.  The ones doing the disposal just happen to pick up his cap and toss it in the trap along with remains, etc. as insurance that he will never implicate them.

I know that is over-thinking but the thought has occurred to me many times.  Hard not to run wild with the things that could be.

.

There was never discussion of a cap.  There was blue denim-like fabric, and a blue tarp which was found outside the cage.

Well, I see what I see regardless of whether it was discussed or not.


.

Fair enough.  I see a denim skirt, and where I see pieces of Natalee's top - others don't.

In the fish trap, this cap is not where the skirt would be and where it is with the super-imposed Natalee over the contents.  It is where her chest would have been.  And not under sand as we were told the skirt fabric was.  I think they are two very different items.

But it is just my take on it and what I see.  Appears the bill of the cap has had a couple of bites taken out of it but the emblem still appears to have a cross  on it.

.

[wreck]

I think Caps' most questionable statement is that Natalee was "cut up" in several pieces. He had to explain why only "some" of her remains would be found in the pond.

[billb's daughter]

Never any doubt in my mind that what was found in that trap were human remains. Natalee or not (I do think it was her), someone was in that cage/trap. No doubt ... right billb?   

I do as well. If the "remains" were not Natalee -- there would be no reason to be secretive or cover-up.

Nut, Wreck...I'm convinced there were remains in the cage primarily because of Tim Miller's reaction which prompted his 99.9% sure phone call to Dave. Then you add Kyle's own words here and on Freebirds, exposed by Kermit and backed up by multiple birdies...pretty convincing I'd say. I also strongly believe the remains are those of Natalee; otherwise, i think pos Mos were have revealed the contents of the cage..Hey, they could have explained away any other remains than Natalee was a result of an fishing boat accident involving a crew member or whatever else could reasonable fit the cage contents..
Some have suggested Kyle may have deliberately manipulated the secrecy behind the recovery efforts to promote his selling the photos for big bucks, but I think that's remote. I may be wrong of course, but as Janet likes to say: Logic dictates..........
JMHO..

To be clear. I DO believe Kyle tried to sell the photos. I DON'T believe Kyle tried to make potential buyers think the photos contained Natalee's remains....

[SS]

I have had a very interesting thought, but maybe some of you might think I've lost it.  Kermit said that she had IPs for Caps from Aruba, NY, and Paris.  This seems unusual to me for someone who John Silvetti claimed was unemployed.  Do you suppose that Caps could be some kind of an agent, like CIA or something?

[texasmom]

TxMom, Here that cabbage wouldn't cut it, too pale.  We have to have REAL greens as in turnip, collard, mustard or my personal fav a mixture of those three plus kale and spinach.  I like to think that will bring a mixture of denominations.

Speaking of collards, those Arubans really seem to love those, don't they, with so many collard houses!  Tee hee hee!

,

I loved turnips and collards as a girl in Mississippi!  Haven't had a taste for them in years though.

Dinner was delicious!  I'm miserable!  

Collard houses!  

[Kermit]

bastibro it seems you and Kyle agree.

Kyle said: “The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of
 vertebrae.”

[Keepthefaith]

Did the Freebirds come up with an opinion based on their research of how the cage,and or Natalee got out there.I think you started to touch on it Kermit but don't remember if it was followed up on.The Gottenbo's??

Bump

[Kermit]

Kyle said: “I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form.
Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.


The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

[Anna]

Did the Freebirds come up with an opinion based on their research of how the cage,and or Natalee got out there.I think you started to touch on it Kermit but don't remember if it was followed up on.The Gottenbo's??

Bump

Or the Colombians supposedly in the tapes TJ Ward has?  I want to hear those tapes as I have been hearing about them forever.

.

[Kermit]

Kyle said: “In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand.
- Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

[Anna]

Kyle said: “I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form.
Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.


The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

Yes but the cap is on where the chest of Natalee would be per this diagram.  So how did the cap wind up in the evidence bag as the skirt I wonder?  It was on the chest area.

Just one of many things that make me have headache about those photos.

.

[Keepthefaith]

Did the Freebirds come up with an opinion based on their research of how the cage,and or Natalee got out there.I think you started to touch on it Kermit but don't remember if it was followed up on.The Gottenbo's??

Bump

Or the Colombians supposedly in the tapes TJ Ward has?  I want to hear those tapes as I have been hearing about them forever.

.

Me too.Rob says Greta has them!She probably won't play them until the Human trafficking angle plays out.JMOO

[billb's daughter]

Never any doubt in my mind that what was found in that trap were human remains. Natalee or not (I do think it was her), someone was in that cage/trap. No doubt ... right billb?   

I do as well. If the "remains" were not Natalee -- there would be no reason to be secretive or cover-up.

Nut, Wreck...I'm convinced there were remains in the cage primarily because of Tim Miller's reaction which prompted his 99.9% sure phone call to Dave. Then you add Kyle's own words here and on Freebirds, exposed by Kermit and backed up by multiple birdies...pretty convincing I'd say. I also strongly believe the remains are those of Natalee; otherwise, i think pos Mos were have revealed the contents of the cage..Hey, they could have explained away any other remains than Natalee was a result of an fishing boat accident involving a crew member or whatever else could reasonable fit the cage contents..
Some have suggested Kyle may have deliberately manipulated the secrecy behind the recovery efforts to promote his selling the photos for big bucks, but I think that's remote. I may be wrong of course, but as Janet likes to say: Logic dictates..........
JMHO..

To be clear. I DO believe Kyle tried to sell the photos.

edited....I keep typing to much!

[Kermit]

Did the Freebirds come up with an opinion based on their research of how the cage,and or Natalee got out there.I think you started to touch on it Kermit but don't remember if it was followed up on.The Gottenbo's??

Bump

I think the FACES of EVIL document lays out the timeline, which was if I remember correctly used by the RV Persistence at some point.

[Keepthefaith]

Did the Freebirds come up with an opinion based on their research of how the cage,and or Natalee got out there.I think you started to touch on it Kermit but don't remember if it was followed up on.The Gottenbo's??

Bump

I think the FACES of EVIL document lays out the timeline, which was if I remember correctly used by the RV Persistence at some point.

Thanx.Will search for it!

[wreck]

Did the Freebirds come up with an opinion based on their research of how the cage,and or Natalee got out there.I think you started to touch on it Kermit but don't remember if it was followed up on.The Gottenbo's??

Bump

I think the FACES of EVIL document lays out the timeline, which was if I remember correctly used by the RV Persistence at some point.

refresh my memory on the "FOE" document, please

[blah]

OK, just for speculation, let's say Police Chief vdS is involved in hiring someone to dispose of remains.  The ones doing the disposal just happen to pick up his cap and toss it in the trap along with remains, etc. as insurance that he will never implicate them.

I know that is over-thinking but the thought has occurred to me many times.  Hard not to run wild with the things that could be.

.

There was never discussion of a cap.  There was blue denim-like fabric, and a blue tarp which was found outside the cage.

That "blue denim" looks more like a baseball type hat than a blue denim skirt