Natalee Case Discussion #788 12/31/08 - 1/01/09

[jen3560]

Remember Hotshot (Kathy Drenga) just recently told the monkeys that it was HER who directed Caps (and the witness) to Silvetti.
 
Could this REALLY be the first sign to prove the suspicions that Silvetti gave something from that trap to be put in the pond?  Shoe?  Skull? - speculation.

thanks for bumping that ldstlou.

Speculation being the key word there, I believe.  No accusations like you have suggested.

[ldstlou]

Maybe is crap, but didn't Kyle himself raise the issue of Silvetti's loyalties which I believe is why he's in hot water.

Yes, he certainly did.  He told us in no uncertain terms that he felt Silvetti's intentions began as honorable - but that his focus shifted.

Also that Silvetti didn't want to question ALE about their insistence the cage was "not relevant" for fear of ruining newly made friendships and contacts.  Because Silvetti had plans to open an office on the island and do business in S America and Aruba.

FWIW - Kyle also never, ever believed in this whole pond witness thing, until the very end when we were wanting to publish our document containing the cage images and Kyle's words.

Then all of a sudden he says the pond witness is "credible", and Silvetti is, after all, "trustworthy".

I took that with a whole dumptruck of salt.

AND, as I recall - his sudden "about face" came out of nowhere.  After he had been absent from the forum for, ummm, two months or so?  We were like WTF?

wingnut, see this is what irks me...you tell half truths for your own agenda. He was gone for 2 months because he was on a ship in Egypt for crying out loud...why make it out to be anything more than it was?

[klaasend]

If people think it's a diversion why not speak up and explain why?No one has!I'll wait to hear why this is a diversion..Anyone???Please explain the diversion to the slow people who are not in the know so to speak.TIA

Keepthefaith...Not sure why you don't get it...Ado did, probably because you are so busy trying to stir up the damn pot with your posts. And boy have you made a lot of them since November 18th...there is that darn date again...Oh My!

Happy New Year's!

Please explain of what significance November 18, 2008 has?  KeeptheFaith has been a member of SM for over a year now.

[Keepthefaith]

If people think it's a diversion why not speak up and explain why?No one has!I'll wait to hear why this is a diversion..Anyone???Please explain the diversion to the slow people who are not in the know so to speak.TIA

Keepthefaith...Not sure why you don't get it...Ado did, probably because you are so busy trying to stir up the damn pot with your posts. And boy have you made a lot of them since November 18th...there is that darn date again...Oh My!

Happy New Year's!

I'm Simply not as Knowledgable as some but to insinuate i'm stirring up the pot is pretty unfortunate.Personnally attacking me doesn't bother me!I don't know what the diversion is?I'm stirring the pot From Seattle,in my store,for what reason.Please do explain my motivation Mum??

Mum????

[truthseeker2]

. . John Silvetti moved the contents of the trap to the pond and was working with the ALE to hide evidence that was in that trap.

Now what in the world could be the reason for Silvetti to do that?!
Who is buying that crap

Not me.  This is where some credibility began to wear thin.  imho.

Truthseeker2.As you are an analyst and i am not.Please explain as to why i shouldn't believe Kermit??No one as of yet has refutted with any clarity as to why anyhting Kermit is saying is untrue..

Well, what I see in the implication appears to be a supposition.  To analyze a supposition you need some level of fact in order to continue to support it. 

An example would be:

"I saw John Silvetti actually remove evidence from the trap"  "The next time I saw that evidence it was being placed into the pond".  Or even better "Thanks to a tip by an Aruban citizen evidence was found in the pond and testing indicates that the evidence had previously been in sea water"

You see, an eyewitness to this could establish the fact or the evidence having actually been located in the pond would help too.

Now, in the absence of any facts, I do not mean posts about how many ponds were discussed, or whether or not someone may have posted about a feeling they had, it is often helpful to focus on the result of the said conspiracy in order to prove a conspiracy ever existed.

So what were the results of this supposed conspiracy?  Did anyone find the evidence that they 'conspired' to move to a pond that is not even a pond anymore?  I don't think so.

Now we have two possible conclusions:
1.There was no conspiracy to move the evidence to a pond
2.Silvetti, ALE, CAPS, (and any others that may have been implicated in the possible conspiracy) truly suck at conspiring.

(Just between us, CAPS should have settled on one of the other ponds that wasn't as likely to dry up so quickly.     )

[bastibro]

Klaasend,
Might Dana be interested in interviewing Tim Miller or John Silvetti about the retrieval of the contents of the cage?
Linda

Wow, that would solve a lot, to hear their story would give answers to a lot of the Monkey questions.
Also a huge bunch of rumours could be ruled out.

[SunnyinTX]

Please fill me in on the latest with URINE...he is in Laos??

[ldstlou]

Remember Hotshot (Kathy Drenga) just recently told the monkeys that it was HER who directed Caps (and the witness) to Silvetti.
 
Could this REALLY be the first sign to prove the suspicions that Silvetti gave something from that trap to be put in the pond?  Shoe?  Skull? - speculation.

thanks for bumping that ldstlou.

Speculation being the key word there, I believe.  No accusations like you have suggested.

I say slander.

[truthseeker2]

Mum,

I pop on every few days to catch up. I used to get involved with the discussions but for some time now, it seems to me, not much headway is being made. And I think the reason is the diversions that occur. It's as if someone or several people are watching SM and every so often they determine SM is on to something and they implement a diversion. Whoever he, she, or they are, they must be very satisfied with their most recent endeavor what with all the terse posts of late among the SMer's.

I agree with your comment "As far as I can see this cage business is the diversion".

My own opinion is; No body no case + incinerator operator suicide = no body. JMO

Ado

Your post reminds me of this:

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the monkeys with cold water. After awhile, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result. Pretty soon, when any monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it.
Now, turn off the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. Again, replace a third original monkey with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four monkeys that beat him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

After replacing the fourth and fifth original monkeys, all the monkeys which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? Because that's the way things are, now…

How insulting of you

Me?  This is a very old adage, Klaas.  It is applicable to many things.  And, yes it can reflect human behavior as well.  Sorry you found it insulting.  I didn't make up.

[Ree]

. . John Silvetti moved the contents of the trap to the pond and was working with the ALE to hide evidence that was in that trap.

Now what in the world could be the reason for Silvetti to do that?!
Who is buying that crap

You state it wasn't found, but who looked?  CAPS was alluding the remains in these ponds, but has there actually been a credible search?  IIRC the original allegation was Silvetti was interested in hiding evidence in the cage to cover up his real motives for the ocean scan.  I know nothing about ocean scans and searching for oil, but I do know Kyle questioned his motives until he found out shooting off his mouth in a private forum could come back to bite him in the ass.

Not me.  This is where some credibility began to wear thin.  imho.

Maybe is crap, but didn't Kyle himself raise the issue of Silvetti's loyalties which I believe is why he's in hot water.

Ree, that statement that implies Silvetti and the ALE conspired to move evidence to another location...and oh, let me think here...uh...they moved it, but no one found where they moved it, which was to a pond that CAPS finally decided on after several attempts to pick a a proper pond to move it to, so that his witness would be giving the correct information to place Joran at that decided upon pond...with the transplanted evidence, that even now has not been 'found'....maybe they are waiting for Mum and Lala's to come to Aruba and find that transplanted evidence that we all know is in the third pond.

Sheesh.  I'm sorry, but that implication just doesn't strike me as plausible.

Yep, unbelieveble. Someone who would bring on such a story i found not credible anymore.

[ldstlou]

Klaasend,
Might Dana be interested in interviewing Tim Miller or John Silvetti about the retrieval of the contents of the cage?
Linda

a voice of reason. I think that is a terrific idea!

[klaasend]

Maybe is crap, but didn't Kyle himself raise the issue of Silvetti's loyalties which I believe is why he's in hot water.

Yes, he certainly did.  He told us in no uncertain terms that he felt Silvetti's intentions began as honorable - but that his focus shifted.

Also that Silvetti didn't want to question ALE about their insistence the cage was "not relevant" for fear of ruining newly made friendships and contacts.  Because Silvetti had plans to open an office on the island and do business in S America and Aruba.

FWIW - Kyle also never, ever believed in this whole pond witness thing, until the very end when we were wanting to publish our document containing the cage images and Kyle's words.

Then all of a sudden he says the pond witness is "credible", and Silvetti is, after all, "trustworthy".

I took that with a whole dumptruck of salt.

AND, as I recall - his sudden "about face" came out of nowhere.  After he had been absent from the forum for, ummm, two months or so?  We were like WTF?

wingnut, see this is what irks me...you tell half truths for your own agenda. He was gone for 2 months because he was on a ship in Egypt for crying out loud...why make it out to be anything more than it was?

It appears Kyle had internet access while he was in Egypt, or at least it looks that way from his blog:

http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/

http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

[Ree]

. . John Silvetti moved the contents of the trap to the pond and was working with the ALE to hide evidence that was in that trap.

Now what in the world could be the reason for Silvetti to do that?!
Who is buying that crap

You state it wasn't found, but who looked?  CAPS was alluding the remains in these ponds, but has there actually been a credible search?  IIRC the original allegation was Silvetti was interested in hiding evidence in the cage to cover up his real motives for the ocean scan.  I know nothing about ocean scans and searching for oil, but I do know Kyle questioned his motives until he found out shooting off his mouth in a private forum could come back to bite him in the ass.

Not me.  This is where some credibility began to wear thin.  imho.

Maybe is crap, but didn't Kyle himself raise the issue of Silvetti's loyalties which I believe is why he's in hot water.

Ree, that statement that implies Silvetti and the ALE conspired to move evidence to another location...and oh, let me think here...uh...they moved it, but no one found where they moved it, which was to a pond that CAPS finally decided on after several attempts to pick a a proper pond to move it to, so that his witness would be giving the correct information to place Joran at that decided upon pond...with the transplanted evidence, that even now has not been 'found'....maybe they are waiting for Mum and Lala's to come to Aruba and find that transplanted evidence that we all know is in the third pond.

Sheesh.  I'm sorry, but that implication just doesn't strike me as plausible.

Yep, unbelieveble. Someone who would bring on such a story i found not credible anymore.

Sorry, I botched that post.  You state it wasn't found, but who looked?  CAPS was alluding the remains in these ponds, but has there actually been a credible search?  IIRC the original allegation was Silvetti was interested in hiding evidence in the cage to cover up his real motives for the ocean scan.  I know nothing about ocean scans and searching for oil, but I do know Kyle questioned his motives until he found out shooting off his mouth in a private forum could come back to bite him in the ass.

[wingnut]

Maybe is crap, but didn't Kyle himself raise the issue of Silvetti's loyalties which I believe is why he's in hot water.

Yes, he certainly did.  He told us in no uncertain terms that he felt Silvetti's intentions began as honorable - but that his focus shifted.

Also that Silvetti didn't want to question ALE about their insistence the cage was "not relevant" for fear of ruining newly made friendships and contacts.  Because Silvetti had plans to open an office on the island and do business in S America and Aruba.

FWIW - Kyle also never, ever believed in this whole pond witness thing, until the very end when we were wanting to publish our document containing the cage images and Kyle's words.

Then all of a sudden he says the pond witness is "credible", and Silvetti is, after all, "trustworthy".

I took that with a whole dumptruck of salt.

AND, as I recall - his sudden "about face" came out of nowhere.  After he had been absent from the forum for, ummm, two months or so?  We were like WTF?

wingnut, see this is what irks me...you tell half truths for your own agenda. He was gone for 2 months because he was on a ship in Egypt for crying out loud...why make it out to be anything more than it was?

Half truth implies Half lie.  I don't appreciate that.  I didn't imply anything other than that he didn't believe the witness, was gone for two months and came back with a completely different point of view.  Please do not put words in my mouth. 

[Keepthefaith]

If people think it's a diversion why not speak up and explain why?No one has!I'll wait to hear why this is a diversion..Anyone???Please explain the diversion to the slow people who are not in the know so to speak.TIA

Keepthefaith...Not sure why you don't get it...Ado did, probably because you are so busy trying to stir up the damn pot with your posts. And boy have you made a lot of them since November 18th...there is that darn date again...Oh My!

Happy New Year's!

Please explain of what significance November 18, 2008 has?  KeeptheFaith has been a member of SM for over a year now.

Mum??

[jen3560]

Maybe is crap, but didn't Kyle himself raise the issue of Silvetti's loyalties which I believe is why he's in hot water.

Yes, he certainly did.  He told us in no uncertain terms that he felt Silvetti's intentions began as honorable - but that his focus shifted.

Also that Silvetti didn't want to question ALE about their insistence the cage was "not relevant" for fear of ruining newly made friendships and contacts.  Because Silvetti had plans to open an office on the island and do business in S America and Aruba.

FWIW - Kyle also never, ever believed in this whole pond witness thing, until the very end when we were wanting to publish our document containing the cage images and Kyle's words.

Then all of a sudden he says the pond witness is "credible", and Silvetti is, after all, "trustworthy".

I took that with a whole dumptruck of salt.

AND, as I recall - his sudden "about face" came out of nowhere.  After he had been absent from the forum for, ummm, two months or so?  We were like WTF?

wingnut, see this is what irks me...you tell half truths for your own agenda. He was gone for 2 months because he was on a ship in Egypt for crying out loud...why make it out to be anything more than it was?

No - if you had read my letter, you would understand a bit better.

Kyle was "gone" for the most part since approximately MAY.

The final two months of that (Aug and Sept) was when he was out of the country.

No half truths in wingnut's post at all.

My follow up post to hers was just to point out what Kyle had been doing, and for whom, before his immediate about face regarding Silvetti and this witness.

[truthseeker2]

Please fill me in on the latest with URINE...he is in Laos??

Yes, the louse is in Laos.  Hanging out at some bars that appear to attack tourists.  (Some things never change)

[ldstlou]

Maybe is crap, but didn't Kyle himself raise the issue of Silvetti's loyalties which I believe is why he's in hot water.

Yes, he certainly did.  He told us in no uncertain terms that he felt Silvetti's intentions began as honorable - but that his focus shifted.

Also that Silvetti didn't want to question ALE about their insistence the cage was "not relevant" for fear of ruining newly made friendships and contacts.  Because Silvetti had plans to open an office on the island and do business in S America and Aruba.

FWIW - Kyle also never, ever believed in this whole pond witness thing, until the very end when we were wanting to publish our document containing the cage images and Kyle's words.

Then all of a sudden he says the pond witness is "credible", and Silvetti is, after all, "trustworthy".

I took that with a whole dumptruck of salt.

 After he had been absent from the forum for, ummm, two months or so?  We were like WTF?

wingnut, see this is what irks me...you tell half truths for your own agenda. He was gone for 2 months because he was on a ship in Egypt for crying out loud...why make it out to be anything more than it was?

It appears Kyle had internet access while he was in Egypt, or at least it looks that way from his blog:

http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/

http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

yep, and it appears to me as though he was focused on the task at hand.

[klaasend]

Klaasend,
Might Dana be interested in interviewing Tim Miller or John Silvetti about the retrieval of the contents of the cage?
Linda

a voice of reason. I think that is a terrific idea!

Email Dana with the suggestion:

dana@scaredmonkeys.com

[Magnolia]

Remember the 35 to 50 Dutch investigators.who were sent from Holland.
Both Kyle and Caps mentioned that and no one else saw hide nor hair of them.
What was that about?