Gaza/Israel

[jjayinthemorning]

I would add that membership in the nuclear club is growing and highly desired by many groups and nations.  Once the Genie is out of the bottle...

And of course in the Pentagon this is discussed. Our national defense includes plans to deal with this situation. Hopefully the new president will have the balls to do the right thing as Commander in Chief.

[nicnic]

someone seems to be brainwashed with fear.



but this 'muslims taking over the world' is such total B.S.
just look at who has military bases all over the world including the middle-east: it is the U.S. There are currently FOBs in Iraq,Afghanistan,and Kuwait. These don't typically count as military bases persay..
they are guest of all kinds of shady non-democratic islamists dictatorships. who is taking over the world now??Why do you think it is, that the U.S. has become a guest of these 3 middle eastern countries? It couldn't be that any time there is any drama in the world, the world looks to the U.S. for help, financially, and with military means? To me, this is a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation.
and then to think that 'muslims are plotting to take over the world', is just ridiculous.
It is also pretty naive to think that there are not plots to take over the world planned, tried, organized,negotiated, DAILY in this world. I'm not talking about Stewie from the family guy..I'm talking about real people. real govts, real politicians. There ARE people who DO want to take over the world. need an example? HITLER. it has happened before, It can happen again. It has been happening since the beginning of time.

Furthermore, I'm not putting my trust blindly in Obama because he was tough on Pakistan during the campaign. I mean, seriously? He has no experience when it comes to threats of this magnitude. period.
I hope I have not misread here, but it seems that you believe these threats are some kind of guise, a falsehood, a trick on the American people. This isn't Wag The Dog. Islamic terrorists have been using destructive tactics ( bombs) on American's for 30 years. 911 wasn't the first, which I believe in itself proves we should be more careful at our airports,in our governments,schools,etc.. but the naacp and what-have-you are too worried about political correctness.but that's a whole other topic i guess. LOl.

[WhiskeyGirl]

I would add that membership in the nuclear club is growing and highly desired by many groups and nations.  Once the Genie is out of the bottle...

And of course in the Pentagon this is discussed. Our national defense includes plans to deal with this situation. Hopefully the new president will have the balls to do the right thing as Commander in Chief.

I remember a few years back that American troops were sent into battle without the basics needed to do the job.  Frantic calls from loved ones to raise money for bullet proof vests, night vision goggles, and armor.  Why?  Troops left unprepared.  Apparently the commander in chief was not aware that troops were not ready for battle. 

I remember bake sales to raise money and requests to visit private military resellers in the hopes of picking up some bargains with those same bake sale dollars.  Lives depended on homemade brownies.

Why would you have a military and not fund it?  Why not have it prepared? 

Some of my generation, from what I remember, talked about being a cool neutral country like Canada.  In my mind, cool, neutral, and capable of defending itself...

I'm thinking today that some would like to see the United States left defenseless.  Some I've listened to believe that if we don't fire on them, they won't fire back.  The globe is filled with them.  They're everywhere.  Some of them don't like us.  Some of them are crazy.  We have crazies too, but I like to imagine 'we' keep track of the crazies among us.

History is filled with people who took the first steps of violence and those that were unprepared for the marching armies.

I am also inclined to believe the military masks the unemployment problem in this country--keeping the numbers artificially low.  Young people I know leaving the military can't find a job.  Young people I know 'volunteer' for the military because they can't find a job, or because their family cannot afford advanced education. 

I don't know what the answers are.  I do think life in the US will be challenging in the years to come.  We had a big warning on 9/11 and the followup is on its way.  It doesn't have to be an airplane, there are any number of possibilities. 

What is the best way to prepare?  Have a plan.  Be ready to flee your home and collect your loved ones along the way.  I think the government should be ready with evacuation centers, radiation pills, gas masks, and a comprehensive response.  Educate the public about dangers in the real world.

We have doctors without borders that go everywhere.  How does anyone fight terrorists without borders?

jmho

[jjayinthemorning]

What is the best way to prepare?  Have a plan.  Be ready to flee your home and collect your loved ones along the way.  I think the government should be ready with evacuation centers, radiation pills, gas masks, and a comprehensive response.  Educate the public about dangers in the real world.

jmho

Yes, and the government may not be able to help you. Like Katrina, they could very wrll be overwhelmed and you are on your own.

[jjayinthemorning]

Update: Jordan and Lebanon have also fired rockets since the escalation. This is to make sure that this defense by Israel continues until Iran is involved. Also to buy time until Obama is in office and can announce that Israel stands alone and the US will not become involved in this conflict.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Update: Jordan and Lebanon have also fired rockets since the escalation. This is to make sure that this defense by Israel continues until Iran is involved. Also to buy time until Obama is in office and can announce that Israel stands alone and the US will not become involved in this conflict.

I don't think Israel will stand alone.  Isn't Rahm Emanuel a supporter of Israel?  Aren't there a few others on the Obama team as well?

Emanuel was named to the Board of Directors for the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation ("Freddie Mac") by then President Bill Clinton in 2000. His position paid him $31,060 in 2000 and $231,655 in 2001.[28] During the time Emanuel spent on the board, Freddie Mac was plagued with scandals involving campaign contributions and accounting irregularities.[29] The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) later accused the board of having "failed in its duty to follow up on matters brought to its attention." Emanuel resigned from the board in 2001 when he ran for congress.[30]

Moskal also charged that Emanuel had dual citizenship with Israel and had served in the Israeli Army.[31] Emanuel did not serve in the Israeli army, but was a civilian volunteer assisting the Israel Defense Forces for a short time during the 1991 Gulf War, repairing truck brakes in one of Israel's northern bases with Sar-El.[32][33]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel

I am sure future historians will see all kinds of conspiracies, plotting, and such in the time from 1995 to may 2020.

jmho

[WhiskeyGirl]

JJ, here is one link about Gaza and the Obama cabinet -

Humankind has not changed much in the past 150 years or so. Genocidal starvation seems to be a favorite political tool for heartless oppressors, people infected with malignant arrogance. For nearly two years now, the Zionist Israeli government has been starving out the 1.5 million Palestinians of Gaza. It has set up a blockade against the area of Gaza, allowing nothing in and nothing out—an open-air concentration camp. Gaza is the most populous place on earth, and one of the most impoverished. Throughout the blockade, life saving medicine, food, gas and other necessities have been severely limited.

And then on November 5th the Israelis sealed off the borders completely, pushing Gazans to the brink of disaster. Banks collapsed, further dragging Gazans into poverty. Nearly 50% of Gazans at the time were unemployed and workers were not been paid since the 19th of November.

Richard Falk, a UN representative for human rights in occupied Palestinian territory has called this blockade of Gaza a crime against humanity. Falk was arrested upon landing in Tel Aviv in the third week of December. He was kept in a disgusting, crowded cell over night before being deported to his native California. He has reported, however, that about 46% of Gazan children suffer from acute anemia and 18% have stunted growth. 75% of all Gazans suffer from some degree of malnutrition.

The US government and American politicians have defended, zealously, the holocaust in Gaza. President Bush said that he understands “Israel’s right to protect itself.” The White House spokesman said: “the United States understands that Israel needs to take actions to defend itself.” He also blamed Hamas for the massacre: “In order for the violence to stop, Hamas must stop firing rockets into Israel…”

Democrat Majority Leader Harry Reid has said: “What the Israelis are doing is very important…” The supposedly progressive Democrats, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, House Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Howard Berman and others all support Israel in this massacre, couching it in terms of “defense.”

For those who are waiting for January 20th for some sort of magical change, well, dream on. Obama has appointed for himself a rabidly Zionist administration—Rahm Emanuel, Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden are just a few. He has remained rather quiet about the Gaza holocaust, only making an extremely ambivalent comment. But his senior advisor David Axelrod said that Obama understood Israel’s urge to respond to Hamas. Axelrod also reminded the public about Obama’s statements while in Israel (on his visit he ignored the Palestinians completely) in July 2008 when he said: “If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I’m going to do everything in my power to stop that. I would expect Israelis to do the same thing.” As Palestinian activist Ali Abunimah said in a recent article, “This allegedly post-racial president appears fully invested in the racist worldview that considers Arab lives to be worth less than those of Israelis and in which Arabs are always the ‘terrorists’.”

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/the-great-hunger/

I am certain oil will become a weapon and that is one reason Obama has decided on an "energy independent" program.

Has there been an ardent search for the 'people' responsible, or just devastation to those that reside on a piece of land, comparison with the criticism from Obama and others of Bush and the US involvement of Iraq and the torture. 

Are bombs a kind of torture?  Do bombs target just buildings?  Buildings owned or lived in by the guilty?  Do bombs blowup just the guilty?  Or perhaps they catch a few innocent people along the way?  Are people afraid of bombs?  Do they fear being blown to bits?  Caught off guard?  Picking the remains of their children off the ground?

I don't think there is any human long term solution to what is going on in the Middle East. 

I don't think anyone knows who used the first weapon, or when exactly that was.

I don't think anyone will ever know who fires the last shot.

Do I think it's possible 'someone' will use nuclear weapons?  Yes, I do.  Not sure who.  It's one of those things that in the end, does it matter who fired first?  Who retaliated?  FMR - it affects everyone.  The world is a much smaller place than it was 200 years ago.  The winds of change blow everywhere and affect everyone.  It's anyone's guess what kind of winds blow in with the Obama administration. 

Will it be a sweet wind?

jmho

[jjayinthemorning]

The tricky part about nuclear war now is that it's not like it was 50 years ago. Pakistan will use nukes when the war with India breaks out... soon. Iran will use nukes. That means there will be fall out. Most will be in the Middle East and Southeast Asia. That's where the majority of the world population is. More then 4 billion people. Will also lead to diseases and other reprocussions.
Then Iran will release dirty bombers in the US and we will have our own hazmat clean up to deal with. Some cities will be uninhabitable but we have lots of free space so it will just be an inconvenience.

It's unfortunate that we can't live in peace. Hope we survive.

[WhiskeyGirl]

The tricky part about nuclear war now is that it's not like it was 50 years ago. Pakistan will use nukes when the war with India breaks out... soon. Iran will use nukes. That means there will be fall out. Most will be in the Middle East and Southeast Asia. That's where the majority of the world population is. More then 4 billion people. Will also lead to diseases and other reprocussions.
Then Iran will release dirty bombers in the US and we will have our own hazmat clean up to deal with. Some cities will be uninhabitable but we have lots of free space so it will just be an inconvenience.

It's unfortunate that we can't live in peace. Hope we survive.

I do expect some nuclear/radiation/gas/bomb/other destruction events in the near future in the U.S. 

I did some basic preparation for Y2K, but don't feel like getting ready this time.  Will I want to survive?  What's left?  I think I'm to old to be a post-apocalypse pioneer. 

I do think fallout will be a problem.  The few nuclear leaks/accidents in the past are just a small indication of what is to come.  Wind spreads everything.  I am reminded of those studies on pollution and how it spreads around the globe.  No use cleaning up the U.S., much of our increasing pollution now comes from Asia. 

A few leaks/accidents left radiation all over, what would large scale use of nuclear bombs leave behind?  How many of those nukes will reach North and South America?  Africa?  Europe? 

I don't know that the global population will ever live in peace.  I don't know that they/we will ever get along.  Couldn't we just politely ignore those we don't like and move on?  Pretend they don't exist for a while?  Maybe let a few generations pass?  Send out kids away to get a different perspective on life?  A wider world view?

[jjayinthemorning]

The tricky part about nuclear war now is that it's not like it was 50 years ago. Pakistan will use nukes when the war with India breaks out... soon. Iran will use nukes. That means there will be fall out. Most will be in the Middle East and Southeast Asia. That's where the majority of the world population is. More then 4 billion people. Will also lead to diseases and other reprocussions.
Then Iran will release dirty bombers in the US and we will have our own hazmat clean up to deal with. Some cities will be uninhabitable but we have lots of free space so it will just be an inconvenience.

It's unfortunate that we can't live in peace. Hope we survive.

I do expect some nuclear/radiation/gas/bomb/other destruction events in the near future in the U.S. 

I did some basic preparation for Y2K, but don't feel like getting ready this time.  Will I want to survive?  What's left?  I think I'm to old to be a post-apocalypse pioneer. 

I do think fallout will be a problem.  The few nuclear leaks/accidents in the past are just a small indication of what is to come.  Wind spreads everything.  I am reminded of those studies on pollution and how it spreads around the globe.  No use cleaning up the U.S., much of our increasing pollution now comes from Asia. 

A few leaks/accidents left radiation all over, what would large scale use of nuclear bombs leave behind?  How many of those nukes will reach North and South America?  Africa?  Europe? 

I don't know that the global population will ever live in peace.  I don't know that they/we will ever get along.  Couldn't we just politely ignore those we don't like and move on?  Pretend they don't exist for a while?  Maybe let a few generations pass?  Send out kids away to get a different perspective on life?  A wider world view?

When Chernobyl victims were given potassium iodide it helped save lives. You can buy some on ebay. It fills the thyroid so that radiation won't seep in and that is how radiation kills.
I don't think the world will be like Mad Max in aftermath. It won't be like a Soviet US nuclear war, instead it will be some short range nukes and dirty bombs that won't extend more than 20 miles.
There was a book I read a long time ago where 2 guys travelled after a nuclear war and there were still pockets that were unaffected. The ME and AQ doesn't have enough nukes to level the US, they can only do some substantial damage equal to 10 Katrinas. Of course our FEMA wouldnt' be able to handle that. Further the panic and PTS that result will be more devastating than the actual nukes.
At this point it's smart to make emergency kits. One for food and water, one for wounds, one for PTS, one for electrical shortage, and one for longer term survival.
I've been through hurricanes Hugo and Andrew, it was a warzone for months... and it took years to rebuild. Survival will be like camping... for a long time.

[jjayinthemorning]

And it begins again. And it will continue.

[LouiseVargas]

I hope I will be taken out during the first wave.

[WhiskeyGirl]

And it begins again. And it will continue.

When will it end?

I recall reading many years ago about all the Jewish Pioneers, settling a land and all the wonderful things that bloomed in the desert.

When I was older, I saw some thought provoking documentaries on public television. 

In a nutshell - When Israel was created, the powers that be wanted to do a good thing.  They gave land to a persecuted group of people and waved good-bye. 

Problem?  Other people already lived on that land.  Did they have the opportunity to vote to create Israel?  Anyone ask for their permission?  Not that I am aware of.

This is a story that has been repeated for thousands of years.  Take something that does not belong to you.  Sometimes, the newcomers/invaders outnumber the indigenous peoples, sometimes the original people start to outnumber the newcomers/invaders and bad things happen (Ireland is another example, Indians in the U.S. too).

People have wondered, what are the Jews going to do when they are outnumbered by the Palestinians?  When Israel is no longer a Jewish religion government?  Palestinians take control?

I find it interesting that the Obama health plan for America sounds a lot like the program they have in Israel. 

http://www.gov.il/FirstGov/TopNavEng/Engoffices/EngMinistries/EngHealth/

The retirement plan to take your 401k and other retirement programs promoted by Theresa G. sounds a lot like the Israeli retirement system too.

Read up on the social welfare system...lots of similar items.

Is the U.S. being set up for a new Exodus out of the Holy Land? 

Is Israel the best model for the U.S.?

Whatever happened to promoting a sound financial system in the U.S.?  Take back the monetary system from the Federal Reserve.  Is the Federal Reserve being well run?

What happens to terror is the U.S. becomes the new/next Israel?

Will Obama's change be good for all the people who've worked hard in the U.S. and put some money away for the future?  Or, will all the 'spoils' go to people who chose not to save for the future?

Based on the example of Social Security, is the Federal Government a good money manager?  Does the government take their responsibility seriously?

Sometimes, it's not the obvious enemy, it's the one that tears you apart from the inside.

Instead of a country with religious freedom and tolerance, it seems like the U.S. has chosen to persecute/intimidate/ridicule anyone who expresses a religious preference - those that cling to their religion.  If some haven't noticed, it starts at the top.

just my humble opinions

[WhiskeyGirl]

We need to talk about Israel

Claws - ALR Blog | April 04, 2007 | 32 Comments

Lynne Segal

“WHAT do you love about Israel?” our critics ask. It is a hostile question, designed to undermine the basis of our organisation, Independent Jewish Voices, launched in Britain in February.

Jews like to see themselves as a disputatious people; it’s the nub of endlessly recycled Jewish jokes. Yet the laughter stops in the blink of an eyelid once discussion turns to Israel. IJV wants the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to be addressed in terms of general principles of human rights and social justice, with agreements reached in accordance with international law. Our most passionate critics besmirch us with accusations of self-hatred, betrayal, anti-Semitism.

Jews generally have always prided themselves on traditions of commitment to principles of justice, equality and free speech. Yet, such principles are automatically shut out by some self-affirming Jews, observant or secular, never to be aired in the light of day, when heads turn to the starkest human rights violations visible throughout 40 years of Israel’s illegal expansion into, rule over or enclosure of, East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip

Genuinely fearing that his country today poses more of a danger than a sanctuary for Jews, Israeli journalist Akiva Eldar said a few years ago: "It is much easier to claim that the entire world is against us than to admit that the state of Israel, which arose as a refuge and a source of pride for Jews, has not only turned into a place less Jewish and less safe for its citizens, but has become a genuine source of shameful embarrassment to Jews who choose to live outside its borders." (Haaretz, November 3, 2003.)

He exaggerates. Many diasporic Jews are also adept at turning potential shame into anger; the greater the condemnation, the fiercer the anger. Talking about Israel, there remains an ever-increasing defensiveness on the one hand, and ever-growing despair on the other. There are only occasional glimmers of hope among Jews seeking a resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is to expand what we see as that glimmer of hope that IJV was formed.

read more here and the comments (wide range of views) -

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/alr/index.php/theaustralian/comments/alr00405

Any ideas?

[WhiskeyGirl]

After the Gaza slaughter

James Dorsey February 04, 2009

Conflict between Israelis and Palestinians has become a fixture of the Middle East. Israelis can live with that as long as they retain military superiority and American backing, and are able to instil the fear of God in their opponents. Israeli leaders take Hizbollah's decision not to broaden the last Gaza war with rocket attacks on Israel as evidence that their strategy is still valid.

Many Palestinians and Arabs have lost faith in the feasibility of the two-state solution involving a Palestinian state alongside Israel. They despair in the wake of the Gaza war and 21 years of failed peacemaking based on Palestinian concessions to Israel. They see no alternative to the two-state solution beyond continued resistance and steadfastness that offer little prospect for building normal, prosperous lives.

If there is a sliver of hope, it may lie in demography. Demographics could constitute a greater threat to Israel than Palestinian rockets or terrorism, and may be the wrench to break the cycle of death and destruction.

read the rest here -
http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=11344

[jjayinthemorning]

When will it end?
 

It will end when a higher power steps in... in a big way.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Perhaps the new administration could spread around an idea from the pre-election speeches - something about clinging to guns and religion.

A speech suggesting their problems were due to clinging to guns and religion...

I wonder if that would help?

[jjayinthemorning]

One of the most important things to know about Islam is that they don't think "Western". And to be able to understand Islam in it's own language helps to understand this enemy.

dar ul Islam is a place that forbids Western thinking. We are not welcome there.