Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, Missing 6/16/08 Orlando FL (Remains Found) #84

[rmcalo]

Rick already shared something very telling. He told us that his own niece pulled a train in December 2005.

This means either: a) he knew first-hand. b) He had the kind of relationship with Casey that she would tell him that, but not that she was pregant? c) for some reason the guys involved would tell this 50-year-old man about the good time they had with his niece...and he believed them.  d) Cindy told him. e) He made it up.

NONE of these things points to a healthy family here.  In fact, all of them point to a family where the men are just casually abusive of the women, and where the women lie to make the family seem normal while the men laugh about it.

For those who aren't sure what "pulled a train" means, it's having sex with one guy right after another.  Could be willingly or forced. 

Ok.. this kind of behavior from Casey would not surprise me in the least.. however, why the hell would she share this with Cindy? Lee, maybe.. but would he tell his parents?    I'm curious how Rick would know this, if it's even true.

When I first heard about Rick saying this, I assumed that Rick was just sort of "putting two and two together" about KC's pregnancy. Her due date was in September (but Caylee came early, in August), and I thought Rick was saying that basically KC must have pulled a train back in December (ie, going back 9 months) because she apparently didn't know who the father was. However, I didn't realize he actually said December ***2005*** (and Caylee was born in 2005, so that would make my theory wrong). Is that what he said, 2005?

[jjayinthemorning]

Usually the aggressor is the older party. I'm curious why your friend thought Casey would be the aggressor here. MOST of the time it is the man initiating it, and always it's the younger party submitting to the older because they think they have to. It rolls downhill.

Usually, right? I agree. But there's something unusual in this case. Because if it is the abused daughter usually they will tell everyone once they are safe. Maybe that time hasn't come yet, she seems to be getting cozy in jail and making it a safe place, IIRC she even said she's safer there on NG last night. Thus a confession coming soon.

But if she was the aggressor George is going to try to divert the attention elsewhere. Ultimately he will be busted as the perv but men are raped too. That was my only point in all that. I forget that men get raped. Sure it's usually male on male.

As for the "train" thing. ewww. She was sexually active and maybe wanted to lessen the odds of getting pregnant with her dad if she had sex with someone else right away with younger faster sperm swimmers.

[Golden Oldie]

While I see Casey being the aggressor in a sexual situation, whether she "seduced" her father or not, George is STILL sick for falling for her "seduction".  He still is an evil man for molesting his daughter, because he should know better, even if Casey is an adult.


2.) Are we suggesting there is proof now that Casey was molested? And hold the phone. that SHE seduced her own father? 

What I was trying to refer to was that I've never heard anything that substantiates KC and GA having any type of physical relationship whether or not it was seduction or molesting.

[anothermonkey]

You're right--that idea about LE leaving the body there was absurd. I thought maybe they could done those studies on the spot, right where she was, but it's very unlikely. This case is messing with my head.

Re: Tim & LP--I had never heard of him before this case. It seemed to me that he was always calling off searches because of money, and always talking about how much he was losing, etc... Understand I only saw him in this case, and not in any of the hundreds of other cases he's been involved in.

NONE of that fight made any sense to me, because how in the hell could Tim emerge from the river with the skull, if the skull wasn't there in the river? I've always wondered why LP was so certain it was in the river, and Tim was so certain it wasn't, and I think there's way more to that conversation than either man is saying. JMO.

ITA.  I still can't get over him saying that on national TV.  Just too much! 

[Fuzzball]

there is no proof of incest on anyone's part.....and I just don't even get in the discussion about it. Until I see  some proof....not supposition or theory or plain old bullcrap I am not going down that road.

ITA Sunny. We are forgetting what a sociopath is. They lie about everything to their advantage. They read people and become what they need in order to take something from that person. They are sexually promiscuous. Sex for KC was just another tool in her arsenal. She used it to her advantage to make people do things for her and give her what she needed. If she was feeling that the guy might be pulling away, bring out one of the big guns, incest, yes that will make them feel sorry for me and not abandon me, at least for now until I have found a suitable replacement for them!    Never, did she ever think it would get back to Lee or George that she said that. Even if it did she would lie. I for one am not giving her one damn inch of an excuse for her behavior. She is who she is and has always been that way.

I don't think incest excuses her killing Caylee. But it's the classic profile for "mothers who kill," and so probably that's part of who she is. Doesn't change the fact that she is a sociopath. Maybe she was trying to get something from Jesse by telling him that, but she's the one who left him, not the other way around. The other time she said it, for sure it was to get sympathy. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Fuzzball]

While I see Casey being the aggressor in a sexual situation, whether she "seduced" her father or not, George is STILL sick for falling for her "seduction".  He still is an evil man for molesting his daughter, because he should know better, even if Casey is an adult.


2.) Are we suggesting there is proof now that Casey was molested? And hold the phone. that SHE seduced her own father? 

What I was trying to refer to was that I've never heard anything that substantiates KC and GA having any type of physical relationship whether or not it was seduction or molesting.

You're right, Golden Oldie. It's all sheer speculation. Sorry if I've talked about it like it's fact when it's not really.

[Golden Oldie]

If LP had anything credible to say or "inside info" then I would think LE would be forcing him to keep his mouth shut.  And I also think LP is smart enough to not say anything that would hurt the case against Casey.  Or at least I would hope so.

I take what he says with a grain of salt.

I agree with you Leroy...I like watching (listening) to LP talk...I wish he could elaborate a bit more on some of his theories but he gets cut off by NG constantly...

I don't see how anything he says can hurt this case..it's just chatter on a talk show.. one thing I like about him being part of this whole thing, is that it keeps the story in the media, I think LP has more to do with that than anyone else....

When he organized the Econ River search..poles were taken on this and other web sites and IIRC 95% percent wanted him to do it..now many of those same people are bashing him for it..go figure. IMO, further search of that river was a valid idea, Tim did a side scan of it but the sonar cannot see under the muck..also by Tims own statements..bodies have been found even after the cav. dogs cleared the area.. as it turns out, Caylee's remains were not in the river..or out by the airport. I do think, had Fay not flooded the area, TES most likely would have found the remains as they are the "best of the best" at doing so.

Thank you, you little hottie, for clearing all of this up.  I've found some of today's comments/speculations, very frustrating.    

[Anninflorida]

Deep inside, I feel that KC will confess...probably just before this case is ready to go to trial.  I think that may be the reason JB has not asked to have the trial moved.  Maybe she's holding out a bit longer in an attempt to take "mommy dearest" down with her.  I can see KC confessing in order to get a lighter sentence, based on the fact that she was tormented by CA.  I don't think KC will be willing to go down alone and take all of the responsibility for this one.  Who knows???  Maybe she is waiting to see if CA will roll over and rat her out if an immunity deal is offered. If that happens, what would prevent KC from trying to frame CA for Caylee's murder?  She could say that CA was the one doing all of these computer searches in an attempt to frame KC.  I just believe that KC will try to retaliate against anyone that has not cooperated with her. This could all be part of the reason she's had no visits from the Ants.....maybe she has already been telling JB to look at CA.

[SunnyinTX]

there is no proof of incest on anyone's part.....and I just don't even get in the discussion about it. Until I see  some proof....not supposition or theory or plain old bullcrap I am not going down that road.

ITA Sunny. We are forgetting what a sociopath is. They lie about everything to their advantage. They read people and become what they need in order to take something from that person. They are sexually promiscuous. Sex for KC was just another tool in her arsenal. She used it to her advantage to make people do things for her and give her what she needed. If she was feeling that the guy might be pulling away, bring out one of the big guns, incest, yes that will make them feel sorry for me and not abandon me, at least for now until I have found a suitable replacement for them!    Never, did she ever think it would get back to Lee or George that she said that. Even if it did she would lie. I for one am not giving her one damn inch of an excuse for her behavior. She is who she is and has always been that way.

casey never mentioned anything about GA abusing her ....only lee...and IMO that is a LIE...just another in her long list.....you are so right when you say she never thought that would get out...she is evil and diabolical and so is her attorney. I listened to NG lst night....I swear if I had to detectives coming down on me there is no way I could have been so unemotional...I know I would have been in tears. Even caught and faced with her lies...she was like...SO????  Hell her parents have confronted her with lies and theft in the past and obviously given her pass after pass...so in her mind why shouldn't the police??? 

[KarmaRoundUp]

Listen to the last 911 tape from the house, the one where Cindy tells about the smell in the car, and she becomes hysterical.  She then is asked to get Casey on the phone, and then listen to Cindyin the background.  Unfortunately, when these tapes were transcribed, the transcriptionist did not transcribe that part, but you can hear it.

Good point. Histronic Personality Disorder. She's also got Dellusional Disorder. These can lead to abusive behavior to the children. Those behaviors originate with fear and are passed on from generation to generation. In many cases of child abuse the youngest are murdered.

Good morning, monkeys and guests!   

Cindy certainly seems to have a list personality disorders tucked up under her belt.  And yes, many of the behaviors do get passed on to future generations, in one form or another.  Casey seems to be a mini Cindy, only far worse. 

Interesting to me is observing how these things happen in the different generations.  And while none of it excuses Casey for what she most likely has done to Caylee, it does help to explain how things ended up so very badly in that family, with Caylee taking the brunt of it all. 

What I'd like to know is how Cindy got the way she is!  We haven't heard much about her parents, their behaviors and relationship.  Oddly enough, of the three women (mother, grandmother, g.grandmother) Cindy's mother (from what little we do know) seems to be the most emotionally healthy.  Yet it's true that first impressions can be deceiving.  It very likely could be that Cindy may be a mini Shirley. 

Would love for Rick to share more about the family and its inner-workings.  Only to help in understanding Cindy, which in turn, helps in understanding Casey.  If anything, am betting the defense will go for the emotionally-abused angle, PTSD, NPD and whatever other initials that Casey most likely has. 

And again I say, none of this 'excuses' Casey.   

So Baez can try, but doubt that it will fly.  Cuz I have a whole slew of initials, as many do, based on the experiences of our childhood, etc.  None of us (to our knowledge) have handled things with our children in such cold, calculating, cruel ways.  A greater majority (even while perhaps handing down personality disorders to some degree), manage to somehow 'go the opposite way' in dealing with our children.  Makes for fascinating casework study, if you're into that kind of thing.   
   

Rick already shared something very telling. He told us that his own niece pulled a train in December 2005.
This means either: a) he knew first-hand. b) He had the kind of relationship with Casey that she would tell him that, but not that she was pregant? c) for some reason the guys involved would tell this 50-year-old man about the good time they had with his niece...and he believed them.  d) Cindy told him. e) He made it up.

NONE of these things points to a healthy family here.  In fact, all of them point to a family where the men are just casually abusive of the women, and where the women lie to make the family seem normal while the men laugh about it.

Does anyone know where I can read that Rick said Casey pulled a train with some guys?

[jjayinthemorning]

I don't think incest excuses her killing Caylee. But it's the classic profile for "mothers who kill," and so probably that's part of who she is. Doesn't change the fact that she is a sociopath. Maybe she was trying to get something from Jesse by telling him that, but she's the one who left him, not the other way around. The other time she said it, for sure it was to get sympathy. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

It will matter to decide premeditation and if a jury would feel sympathy for Casey's conditions. Incest would immediately move Casey from the Villian to the Damsel with the jury being the rescurer and the sentence would be lighter. I wouldn't want to see that.

Maybe that's why LE is trying to get charges against the Ants so they can't be the Damsels in this case either.

All very interesting. Thank you all for great conversation!

[BooMonkey]

I don't blame any of the men/boys for what they might have said to KC regarding Caylee being at their apartments or not wanting female children. They are young and stupid and know not what they say. They are just being young men, and trying to sound cool or get a rise out of KC. We forget that KC was looking up all those things like neck breaking, chloroform and household weapons months before dating Tony. She had getting rid of Caylee on her mind long before that relationship started. IMO things were getting too claustrophobic for her regarding Caylee's care. She wanted to be free of the responsibility yet retain some control over Cindy. What to do? I think the huge fight between Cindy and KC just happened to be the straw that broke the camels back. Maybe KC had a different scenario planned for Caylee's demise, but Cindy pushed the wrong button and KC sprung into action.

It's like they say to practice what you would do in a threatening situation, go over and over in your mind what you will do if someone tries to attack you. You play it out and test each scenario to see what works best for you. She had been thinking about killing Caylee and when the time came, and she was backed into a corner, no problem, done and over. On to Blockbusters!
 

[Sassycat]

Rick already shared something very telling. He told us that his own niece pulled a train in December 2005.

This means either: a) he knew first-hand. b) He had the kind of relationship with Casey that she would tell him that, but not that she was pregant? c) for some reason the guys involved would tell this 50-year-old man about the good time they had with his niece...and he believed them.  d) Cindy told him. e) He made it up.

NONE of these things points to a healthy family here.  In fact, all of them point to a family where the men are just casually abusive of the women, and where the women lie to make the family seem normal while the men laugh about it.

For those who aren't sure what "pulled a train" means, it's having sex with one guy right after another.  Could be willingly or forced. 

Ok.. this kind of behavior from Casey would not surprise me in the least.. however, why the hell would she share this with Cindy? Lee, maybe.. but would he tell his parents?    I'm curious how Rick would know this, if it's even true.

hmmm.  Maybe Lee told Rick, himself!    Maybe Rick saw some photos???

Another act that these kids are doing (I have girls KC's age and they tell me what's going on with that age group), is a girl will do two guys at once.  (one in the front and one in the rear).   They have some special name for it, but I can't recall what it is called.

[Fuzzball]

On July 3rd, CA wrote that "My Caylee is Missing", in her Myspace page.  Come on.... she knew something... oh and I am sure she recanted that too, just like the 911 call. 

She supposedly went to Universal that day, also, to look for Caylee. But "missing' isn't "dead." She thought Casey was leaving Caylee with friends, and probably hoped that by asking "who now is looking out for the little angel?" she'd get an e-mail from one of the friends, and perhaps be able to go see Caylee that way.

[no rose colored glasses]

I don't remember Rick saying pulling a train comment, I would like to see the comment also. I didn't even know what that meant until somebody said a few pages back. I guess I'm more naive than I thought.

[Sea Searcher]

For what it's worth -   I like both Tim and LP.   I actually felt sad that there was a rif between the two men.   

I had donated to TES.  Then, LP kept asking people on NG to send donations to TES, so I donated again.   I think LP was sincerely trying to help TES receive more donations.   Fans of LP did donate to TES after he asked!

I never heard LP ask for one dime.   But, I guess he's getting "his" from the media - and the interviews.   As far as his theories, I find his views interesting, but I always decide for myself if I believe what he is saying.  Sometimes I do, sometimes, I don't.

I felt sick when I learned that people were demanding their money back from TES when Tim pulled out of Orlando.  To me, that was just plain WRONG.   I sat in Murt's van and heard people say they wanted TES to refund them for the bottled water and pizzas that were bought.   That was also WRONG.

Both men have their strengths and weaknesses.  They are just men.    I like both of them.

Well said ! 

[Anninflorida]

Can anyone else see KC trying to blame the computer searches on CA?  She could say that CA was going to try and get custody of Caylee and  did all of this to set her up.  I just can't see KC allowing herself to be the only one that pays for this crime.  LP has stated that he thinks LA was the one responsible for searching the sex sites, looking for escort services in cities when he traveled.  So, if LA admits he did part of the searches, that will help the defense prove others had access to the computer.  NG seems to think those computer searches and the chloroform in the car will be the main things that will tie this case up for the prosecution but I can see defense poking lots of holes, if they can prove others in the house had access to this computer on the dates searches were made. 

[higherhopes]

Hey everybody.....just and ideal but I wonder if there isnt more to the JP Chatt rumor than what we thought and if this could be where the money for Casey's dream team is coming from......YOU NEVER KNOW.......
JP Chatts family is very wealthy… His father is Joseph Chatt and he is the Chairman of CaribEx worldwide…(In Puerto Rico) Joseph chatt Jr is the President of Caribbean.. Madeline Chatt (JP’s sister) is the Business Development and DR ops manager in Florida…I heard this is the Chatt’s business… I think I reqad that gross sales or profit was 87 million (need to find that link)
Also please note: there is a Cyndy Baez that also works there as a Billing/Inventory Control Specialist….. could she be kin to Jose?

This is all very interesting HH, thank you.  Am thinking there is MUCH more to the JP Chatt story.  Whatever it may be, it certainly was hushed up in a fast hurry!!  That just makes me think there's something that somebody doesn't want known publically, which makes me even more suspicious.  It seems to me that they've tiptoed around the whole thing with JP Chatt, whatever it may be.
 

Thank You, and I have found out that JP had left PR in 2002 to come to Florida, dont know yet if he had met Casey back then but he was in Orlando back then.............I think its as good a possibility as anything else and then the Cyndy Baez that works for his fathers comp. would explain where Baez came from if I can find that connection.

[anothermonkey]

hmmm.  Maybe Lee told Rick, himself!    Maybe Rick saw some photos???

Another act that these kids are doing (I have girls KC's age and they tell me what's going on with that age group), is a girl will do two guys at once.  (one in the front and one in the rear).   They have some special name for it, but I can't recall what it is called.

Death Penalty.   

[anothermonkey]

Hey everybody.....just and ideal but I wonder if there isnt more to the JP Chatt rumor than what we thought and if this could be where the money for Casey's dream team is coming from......YOU NEVER KNOW.......
JP Chatts family is very wealthy… His father is Joseph Chatt and he is the Chairman of CaribEx worldwide…(In Puerto Rico) Joseph chatt Jr is the President of Caribbean.. Madeline Chatt (JP’s sister) is the Business Development and DR ops manager in Florida…I heard this is the Chatt’s business… I think I reqad that gross sales or profit was 87 million (need to find that link)
Also please note: there is a Cyndy Baez that also works there as a Billing/Inventory Control Specialist….. could she be kin to Jose?

This is all very interesting HH, thank you.  Am thinking there is MUCH more to the JP Chatt story.  Whatever it may be, it certainly was hushed up in a fast hurry!!  That just makes me think there's something that somebody doesn't want known publically, which makes me even more suspicious.  It seems to me that they've tiptoed around the whole thing with JP Chatt, whatever it may be.
 

Thank You, and I have found out that JP had left PR in 2002 to come to Florida, dont know yet if he had met Casey back then but he was in Orlando back then.............I think its as good a possibility as anything else and then the Cyndy Baez that works for his fathers comp. would explain where Baez came from if I can find that connection.

Could be true, but why wouldn't Casey - or hell, why wouldn't CINDY- try to get money from these people for child support?  If we can find this info out via a Google search, why wouldn't Casey have known full well what family she was screwing herself into?