Natalee Case Discussion #789 1/1/09 - 1/3/09

[2NJSons_Mom]

Quantico is a Marine Corp Base that houses among other things the FBI academy.

So were these agents onboard from the regular FBI which is in Washington, DC, or from Bardados?  There are some lab facilities at Quantico but the forensic samples in the plastic bags were only in the ALE dive boat was my understanding from Kyle's posts.

Just following along, here, Anna....my thoughts were along the same lines.

[ldstlou]

If Kyle had his doubts about what the ALE were doing (pulling off a cover up) and the FBI was getting daily updates then why didn't Kyle go to the FBI instead of Freebirds with his concerns?

And that is my question

Guess we will not get that answer. Seems they are gone again.

I have not gone and I am not "they". Kyle did speak of his concerns to the FBI.

[wreck]

I've said my peace. I have explained over and over why I am "defending Kyle"and the embers of the Persistence. I have had all my questions answered by Jug and Kyle and taken a hell of a lot of heat for sharing my opinions. Again, I think Tim Miller could answer a lot of these questions and his word would be trusted.

Tim was kicked off the boat Dec. 30th.

[Magnolia]

Kyle is a liar.  We have seen that right here about little things.
The guy in the red shirt was not Silvetti.  He didn't know who
the diver was. etc.

He is just throwing things out there now to try to create some
doubt.

The thought that Americans who were suppose to be on a
mission to try to find Natalee's remains, betrayed her so totally
sickens me.

[ldstlou]

LDSTLOU,
Again, I think you have failed to follow EVERY detail and words of Kyle himself. Kyle has stated that John S. had NO interest in the trap -- in fact he told Kyle "to never bring up the trap" again! Kyle told Freebirds that John S. has NEW business dealings in Aruba. Beth's brother (private eye) was flabbergasted to find out about the Jan. 7th pics in MARCH! That is NOT IMMEDIATELY. Kyle had no responsibilty to turn over ALL pics????? Well, he sure had responsibility to SELL the pics in February!

John did not believe Natalee was in that trap. They had other targets they had located and he wanted to focus on the other targets that were possibilites. Remember, they identified quite a few other possible targets that they were eager to look into. It wasn't because he was hiding anything in the trap, he felt they had eliminated the possibility that it was Natalee and wanet to get to other possibilities.

Eager to look into, so eager they begged for donations one day while they were packing to leave at the same time. 

I always thought they left abruptly because of the Chavez issues. 

that was my understanding too. Again, the best source to find out the answer would be Tim. I have said that for over a month now.

[Blue Moon]

If Kyle had his doubts about what the ALE were doing (pulling off a cover up) and the FBI was getting daily updates then why didn't Kyle go to the FBI instead of Freebirds with his concerns?

And that is my question

Lou, I am sorry.  Maybe Kyle should be addressing these questions.  You are putting yourself in a very tough situation.  My prospective is I cannot understand why the FBI or the family were not given the pictures of the ROV retrieval from the Jan. 7th dive by ALE.

Guess we will not get that answer. Seems they are gone again.

I have not gone and I am not "they". Kyle did speak of his concerns to the FBI.

[billb's daughter]

I am going to venture into this little thing here.  (gosh, I hope I don't regret it)

What I understand ldstlou to be saying here is that there was a protocol on the ship where things were turned over to the FBI as they were developed and Kyle was not the one on the ship that was assigned to do that.

Am I right, ldstlou?

that is my understanding

So what you are saying is that the FBI was there on the ship the entire time including January 7th and they saw the pictures.

So if they saw these pictures what is the big deal.

Is it because Kyle released information he should not have.

I am not sure what you are asking me? What is the big deal to me?

Surely you aren't trying to tell us the FBI was physically aboard the Persistence on Dec. 29th to Jan 7th?!?

Well, they wouldn't have to be onboard to receive the data.  It's quite easy to encrypt and transmit data.

This sure seems to be going in a circle and I'll be darned as to the reason why....
But, as stated, FBI didn't have to be onboard to receive the ROV videos, so why wasn't the ROV videos encrypted and transmitted the day they were made? I'm sure the FBI would not set up a protocol that only insisted screen captures were sent daily without covering or excluding videos....That wouldn't make any sense....
Kyle pretty much painted the picture that he knew the ROV video was not sent to FBI or family. He stated he was trying to strike a deal for financial gains....When Freebirds discovered that Kyle had not sent the ROV video in September 2008 they cut ties with him on advice of legal consul....Kermit exposed it along with help from Freebirds....
Pretty clear to me.....

From what I understood in the earlier posts, it was not Kyle's function to do that.  He had things he provided as assigned and the ROV images were assigned to someone else to provide.  My question earlier was, if it wasn't assigned to him to do, how would Kyle know if it was done or not?

Ok...maybe not kyle's function on jan 7th when the ROV Video was made.
At some point after that, Kyle was trying to sell the ROV Video for financial gains...he did not turn the ROV video over to proper authorities, although he must have had the video if he was trying to sell it. An ethical dilemma perhaps? Wasn't the stated purpose of the persistence  to find Natalee? They campaigned for funds from public and private donors...By not turning the potential evidence of remains that Kyle, in his own words believed he had, over to the proper authorities, at least worrisome? 
Maybe the only opportunity that Natalee's family ever had to gain Natalee's remains were thwarted by the action/inaction of those on the persistence. I find that immoral, unconscionable, and, at a minimum, obstruction of justice..for an American citizen, Natalee Holloway. Recovering Natalee's remains WERE the mission of the persistence!

[hotping]

Kyle is a liar.  We have seen that right here about little things.
The guy in the red shirt was not Silvetti.  He didn't know who
the diver was. etc.

He is just throwing things out there now to try to create some
doubt.

The thought that Americans who were suppose to be on a
mission to try to find Natalee's remains, betrayed her so totally
sickens me.

I agree! 

[Keepthefaith]

LDSTLOU,
Again, I think you have failed to follow EVERY detail and words of Kyle himself. Kyle has stated that John S. had NO interest in the trap -- in fact he told Kyle "to never bring up the trap" again! Kyle told Freebirds that John S. has NEW business dealings in Aruba. Beth's brother (private eye) was flabbergasted to find out about the Jan. 7th pics in MARCH! That is NOT IMMEDIATELY. Kyle had no responsibilty to turn over ALL pics????? Well, he sure had responsibility to SELL the pics in February!

John did not believe Natalee was in that trap. They had other targets they had located and he wanted to focus on the other targets that were possibilites. Remember, they identified quite a few other possible targets that they were eager to look into. It wasn't because he was hiding anything in the trap, he felt they had eliminated the possibility that it was Natalee and wanet to get to other possibilities.

Eager to look into, so eager they begged for donations one day while they were packing to leave at the same time. 

I always thought they left abruptly because of the Chavez issues. 

that was my understanding too. Again, the best source to find out the answer would be Tim. I have said that for over a month now.

How can you ask the guy about thing's that happened when he wasn't even there!

[iris44]

I think we need Kermit, Jen, or wingnut to come back and re-state the timelines as they know it.

I think we need Tim Miller to explain it to us.

Tim Miller was not on the persistence when the ROV video was taken on jan 7...John S. put him off the ship on Dec 30th....

No but I am sure Tim could answer if the FBI were involved. I am sure he could answer what the protocol was in turning over footage. I am sure he could answer if he was removed from the Persistence. I am sure he could answer if he felt John Silvetti was involved in a cover-up with the FBI. I think those answers would go a long way right now.

Ldstlou, you have convinced me.  Your explanations sound straightforward and credible. 

[ldstlou]

I've said my peace. I have explained over and over why I am "defending Kyle"and the embers of the Persistence. I have had all my questions answered by Jug and Kyle and taken a hell of a lot of heat for sharing my opinions. Again, I think Tim Miller could answer a lot of these questions and his word would be trusted.

Tim was kicked off the boat Dec. 30th.

ok, in one breath posters call Kyle a liar...in another they take his word that Tim was kicked off. It is clear Kyle's views have changed throughout the endeaver, just as ours have changed over the past almost 4 years. Why not ask Tim Miller if he was kicked off?

[Blue Moon]

If Kyle had his doubts about what the ALE were doing (pulling off a cover up) and the FBI was getting daily updates then why didn't Kyle go to the FBI instead of Freebirds with his concerns?

And that is my question

I have not gone and I am not "they". Kyle did speak of his concerns to the FBI.

Lou, I am sorry.  Maybe Kyle should be addressing these questions.  You are putting yourself in a very tough situation.  My prospective is I cannot understand why the FBI or the family were not given the pictures of the ROV retrieval from the Jan. 7th dive by ALE.

Guess we will not get that answer. Seems they are gone again.

(correction on my last post)

[Keepthefaith]

I am going to venture into this little thing here.  (gosh, I hope I don't regret it)

What I understand ldstlou to be saying here is that there was a protocol on the ship where things were turned over to the FBI as they were developed and Kyle was not the one on the ship that was assigned to do that.

Am I right, ldstlou?

that is my understanding

So what you are saying is that the FBI was there on the ship the entire time including January 7th and they saw the pictures.

So if they saw these pictures what is the big deal.

Is it because Kyle released information he should not have.

I am not sure what you are asking me? What is the big deal to me?

Surely you aren't trying to tell us the FBI was physically aboard the Persistence on Dec. 29th to Jan 7th?!?

Well, they wouldn't have to be onboard to receive the data.  It's quite easy to encrypt and transmit data.

This sure seems to be going in a circle and I'll be darned as to the reason why....
But, as stated, FBI didn't have to be onboard to receive the ROV videos, so why wasn't the ROV videos encrypted and transmitted the day they were made? I'm sure the FBI would not set up a protocol that only insisted screen captures were sent daily without covering or excluding videos....That wouldn't make any sense....
Kyle pretty much painted the picture that he knew the ROV video was not sent to FBI or family. He stated he was trying to strike a deal for financial gains....When Freebirds discovered that Kyle had not sent the ROV video in September 2008 they cut ties with him on advice of legal consul....Kermit exposed it along with help from Freebirds....
Pretty clear to me.....

From what I understood in the earlier posts, it was not Kyle's function to do that.  He had things he provided as assigned and the ROV images were assigned to someone else to provide.  My question earlier was, if it wasn't assigned to him to do, how would Kyle know if it was done or not?

Ok...maybe not kyle's function on jan 7th when the ROV Video was made.
At some point after that, Kyle was trying to sell the ROV Video for financial gains...he did not turn the ROV video over to proper authorities, although he must have had the video if he was trying to sell it. An ethical dilemma perhaps? Wasn't the stated purpose of the persistence  to find Natalee? They campaigned for funds from public and private donors...By not turning the potential evidence of remains that Kyle, in his own words believed he had, over to the proper authorities, at least worrisome? 
Maybe the only opportunity that Natalee's family ever had to gain Natalee's remains were thwarted by the action/inaction of those on the persistence. I find that immoral, unconscionable, and, at a minimum, obstruction of justice..for an American citizen, Natalee Holloway. Recovering Natalee's remains WERE the mission of the persistence!

 

[Anna]

Is Tim Miller's ulcer still bleeding?  I don't think that he should even be asked to vouch for things happening when he was not even aboard.  He would have absolutely no way of knowing who sent what to whom.

[Keepthefaith]

Is Tim Miller's ulcer still bleeding?  I don't think that he should even be asked to vouch for things happening when he was not even aboard.  He would have absolutely no way of knowing who sent what to whom.

 

[ldstlou]

LDSTLOU,
Again, I think you have failed to follow EVERY detail and words of Kyle himself. Kyle has stated that John S. had NO interest in the trap -- in fact he told Kyle "to never bring up the trap" again! Kyle told Freebirds that John S. has NEW business dealings in Aruba. Beth's brother (private eye) was flabbergasted to find out about the Jan. 7th pics in MARCH! That is NOT IMMEDIATELY. Kyle had no responsibilty to turn over ALL pics????? Well, he sure had responsibility to SELL the pics in February!

John did not believe Natalee was in that trap. They had other targets they had located and he wanted to focus on the other targets that were possibilites. Remember, they identified quite a few other possible targets that they were eager to look into. It wasn't because he was hiding anything in the trap, he felt they had eliminated the possibility that it was Natalee and wanet to get to other possibilities.

Eager to look into, so eager they begged for donations one day while they were packing to leave at the same time. 

I always thought they left abruptly because of the Chavez issues. 

that was my understanding too. Again, the best source to find out the answer would be Tim. I have said that for over a month now.

How can you ask the guy about thing's that happened when he wasn't even there!

I think Tim could answer whether he was "removed" from the Persistence or not.

[Keepthefaith]

I stand with the Frog,Jen,Wingnut,as well as Angie...

[klaasend]

http://www.nd.nl/artikelen/2009/januari/02/pvv-er-brinkman-uit-zijn-kritiek-op-zaak-holloway

Brinkman PVV'er from his criticism of Holloway case Published: 03 January 2009 05:00, last updated: 02 January 2009 21:43

by Dick Hofland

PVV-MP Hero Brinkman. | Nederlands Dagblad photo / Jaco Klamer
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
THE HAGUE - The Holloway case in terms of PVV MP Hero Brinkman-to carelessly examined. During the visit of a delegation he dives in the case, but he also criticized the new management structure in the Antilles.



MP Hero Brinkman of the PVV appears next week in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway case. During the visit of a parliamentary delegation to the West, he speaks in the Advocate of the missing American teenager, several policemen and some former members of the Public Ministry. ,, The research is so fucked up.''

What can you do what Peter R. de Vries can not?
,, I wish that the case was a cover it. Because that likely to happen now. Peter R. de Vries has updated me about everything and I've read about the case, so I am well prepared. And I agreed that I tell him everything I know to do.''

What do you discover?
,, The Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes has been corrupt, but in this case I think he speaks the truth. Croes has suggested that the father of Joran van der Sloot in Aruba and the police were very good friends. That police chief said that he would have the son of his best friend could not continue. That explains why the investigation only after ten days was set in motion, while four hours after the disappearance of Natalee Joran already clear that there was closely involved.,,

You are also plans for the new governance structure of the West on such matters. Are not you afraid that you Antilles hence the cabinet hunts.
,, I say what I think and I see what happens. I'm starting Monday at the table with various people I have accused of corruption. I do not know how they will approach me, but I'm still welcome.''

What are you going to blame the West?
,, There is an agreement that the Netherlands seventy percent of the debt charity, and that control over administration and justice. That seems good, but what does the island of Curacao was the first council done? The private pension supplemented with 1.3 million euros. This is an geneerde form of self-enrichment which the dog does not eat bread.''

,, I foresee that in the West as quickly as possible the money would have to be as fast as possible to them. The negotiations on the constitutional changes are, unfortunately, wrong place. We ought to agree that they may make no new debt.''

[Anna]

Kyle is the one who said not only was Tim Miller removed but that he had become considered a "liability" was the word Kyle used.

He is the one who said that, not SM.

[ldstlou]

If Kyle had his doubts about what the ALE were doing (pulling off a cover up) and the FBI was getting daily updates then why didn't Kyle go to the FBI instead of Freebirds with his concerns?

And that is my question

I have not gone and I am not "they". Kyle did speak of his concerns to the FBI.

Lou, I am sorry.  Maybe Kyle should be addressing these questions.  You are putting yourself in a very tough situation.  My prospective is I cannot understand why the FBI or the family were not given the pictures of the ROV retrieval from the Jan. 7th dive by ALE.

Guess we will not get that answer. Seems they are gone again.

(correction on my last post)

And it is my belief they were.
Kyle is called a liar by many posters here...so why bother having him here?
I never attempted to speak for Kyle, I have attempted to say why I don't believe members of the Persistence were involved in a cover-up.