Natalee Case Discussion #789 1/1/09 - 1/3/09

[truthseeker2]

http://www.nd.nl/artikelen/2009/januari/02/pvv-er-brinkman-uit-zijn-kritiek-op-zaak-holloway

Brinkman PVV'er from his criticism of Holloway case Published: 03 January 2009 05:00, last updated: 02 January 2009 21:43

by Dick Hofland

PVV-MP Hero Brinkman. | Nederlands Dagblad photo / Jaco Klamer
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
THE HAGUE - The Holloway case in terms of PVV MP Hero Brinkman-to carelessly examined. During the visit of a delegation he dives in the case, but he also criticized the new management structure in the Antilles.



MP Hero Brinkman of the PVV appears next week in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway case. During the visit of a parliamentary delegation to the West, he speaks in the Advocate of the missing American teenager, several policemen and some former members of the Public Ministry. ,, The research is so fucked up.''

What can you do what Peter R. de Vries can not?
,, I wish that the case was a cover it. Because that likely to happen now. Peter R. de Vries has updated me about everything and I've read about the case, so I am well prepared. And I agreed that I tell him everything I know to do.''

What do you discover?
,, The Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes has been corrupt, but in this case I think he speaks the truth. Croes has suggested that the father of Joran van der Sloot in Aruba and the police were very good friends. That police chief said that he would have the son of his best friend could not continue. That explains why the investigation only after ten days was set in motion, while four hours after the disappearance of Natalee Joran already clear that there was closely involved.,,

You are also plans for the new governance structure of the West on such matters. Are not you afraid that you Antilles hence the cabinet hunts.
,, I say what I think and I see what happens. I'm starting Monday at the table with various people I have accused of corruption. I do not know how they will approach me, but I'm still welcome.''

What are you going to blame the West?
,, There is an agreement that the Netherlands seventy percent of the debt charity, and that control over administration and justice. That seems good, but what does the island of Curacao was the first council done? The private pension supplemented with 1.3 million euros. This is an geneerde form of self-enrichment which the dog does not eat bread.''

,, I foresee that in the West as quickly as possible the money would have to be as fast as possible to them. The negotiations on the constitutional changes are, unfortunately, wrong place. We ought to agree that they may make no new debt.''

I wonder if what I have bolded is translated properly?  Within 4 hours?  Could he be talking about the 4:00 am pickup of Joran by Paulus? Or, 4 hours after she was reported missing by the chaperone?

Wasn't Joran supposedly telling other students at school that Natalee drowned?  If she died at 3 or 4 a.m., Joran was at school by 8 am or so; that would be around 4 hours.

True.  Since he mentioned the polis and the friendship with Paulus I was just wondering if Paulus had contacted Van Der Sloot that morning and there is evidence of that Brinkman is aware of to prove it.  That would be quite a piece of evidence!!

[Tamikosmom]

LDSTLOU,
Again, I think you have failed to follow EVERY detail and words of Kyle himself. Kyle has stated that John S. had NO interest in the trap -- in fact he told Kyle "to never bring up the trap" again! Kyle told Freebirds that John S. has NEW business dealings in Aruba. Beth's brother (private eye) was flabbergasted to find out about the Jan. 7th pics in MARCH! That is NOT IMMEDIATELY. Kyle had no responsibilty to turn over ALL pics????? Well, he sure had responsibility to SELL the pics in February!

John did not believe Natalee was in that trap. They had other targets they had located and he wanted to focus on the other targets that were possibilites. Remember, they identified quite a few other possible targets that they were eager to look into. It wasn't because he was hiding anything in the trap, he felt they had eliminated the possibility that it was Natalee and wanet to get to other possibilities.

Janet..
This comment is what i find interesting.How could or did John Silvetti come to this conclusion and how would Ldstlou know this??Just a question...

According to Kyle Kingman ... John Silvetti had no interest in the contents of the trap/cage.  Justice for Natalee, closure for her family and ... accountability to those who dontated to the undertaking ... were not a consideration.  Silvetti had a self-serving motivation to look the other way as the enemy took possession of what could have been Natalee Holloway's remains.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off

[Blue Moon]

TexasMom, was that picture of the woman you just posted the one in the boat deceased that appeared in an Aruban newspaper? How sad that respect for her wasn't shown.  She appears to be a gift to society to be cherished not flashed before the world to see her last moment on earth.

[iris44]

I think we need Kermit, Jen, or wingnut to come back and re-state the timelines as they know it.

I think we need Tim Miller to explain it to us.

Tim Miller was not on the persistence when the ROV video was taken on jan 7...John S. put him off the ship on Dec 30th....

No but I am sure Tim could answer if the FBI were involved. I am sure he could answer what the protocol was in turning over footage. I am sure he could answer if he was removed from the Persistence. I am sure he could answer if he felt John Silvetti was involved in a cover-up with the FBI. I think those answers would go a long way right now.

Ldstlou, you have convinced me.  Your explanations sound straightforward and credible. 

    How are her explanations any more credible than any one elses?  Because she spoke with Kyle or Jug?

Just my opinion.  I'm not basing it on who she got the info from, just that the info seems to make sense.  I'm just not buying the conspiracy theories about the Persistence crew.  The Freebirds believed everything Kyle said and based their theories on his words, and if Kyle mislead them, the conclusions they drew cannot be correct.

[2NJSons_Mom]

LDSTLOU,
Again, I think you have failed to follow EVERY detail and words of Kyle himself. Kyle has stated that John S. had NO interest in the trap -- in fact he told Kyle "to never bring up the trap" again! Kyle told Freebirds that John S. has NEW business dealings in Aruba. Beth's brother (private eye) was flabbergasted to find out about the Jan. 7th pics in MARCH! That is NOT IMMEDIATELY. Kyle had no responsibilty to turn over ALL pics????? Well, he sure had responsibility to SELL the pics in February!

John did not believe Natalee was in that trap. They had other targets they had located and he wanted to focus on the other targets that were possibilites. Remember, they identified quite a few other possible targets that they were eager to look into. It wasn't because he was hiding anything in the trap, he felt they had eliminated the possibility that it was Natalee and wanet to get to other possibilities.

Janet..
This comment is what i find interesting.How could or did John Silvetti come to this conclusion and how would Ldstlou know this??Just a question...

According to Kyle Kingman ... John Silvetti had no interest in the contents of the trap/cage.  Justice for Natalee, closure for her family and ... accountability to those who dontated to the undertaking ... were not a consideration.  Silvetti had a self-serving motivation to look the other way as the enemy took possession of what could have been Natalee Holloway's remains.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off

If OE didn't have diarrhea of the mouth through the internet, we would not be discussing any of this right now.  Whether his intentions were legitimate intially or not, it doesn't matter.  He created the cosmic WTF, imo.  Why?

Sorry to tag this on to your post, Janet, but I am heading out for the night...I hope...last night was not a good sleep night.

Will see you all later.  G'nite for now.

[wreck]

I think we need Kermit, Jen, or wingnut to come back and re-state the timelines as they know it.

I think we need Tim Miller to explain it to us.

Tim Miller was not on the persistence when the ROV video was taken on jan 7...John S. put him off the ship on Dec 30th....

No but I am sure Tim could answer if the FBI were involved. I am sure he could answer what the protocol was in turning over footage. I am sure he could answer if he was removed from the Persistence. I am sure he could answer if he felt John Silvetti was involved in a cover-up with the FBI. I think those answers would go a long way right now.

Ldstlou, you have convinced me.  Your explanations sound straightforward and credible. 

    How are her explanations any more credible than any one elses?  Because she spoke with Kyle or Jug?

Just my opinion.  I'm not basing it on who she got the info from, just that the info seems to make sense.  I'm just not buying the conspiracy theories about the Persistence crew.  The Freebirds believed everything Kyle said and based their theories on his words, and if Kyle mislead them, the conclusions they drew cannot be correct.

So why would Kyle "mislead" Freebirds? 

[iris44]

http://www.nd.nl/artikelen/2009/januari/02/pvv-er-brinkman-uit-zijn-kritiek-op-zaak-holloway

Brinkman PVV'er from his criticism of Holloway case Published: 03 January 2009 05:00, last updated: 02 January 2009 21:43

by Dick Hofland

PVV-MP Hero Brinkman. | Nederlands Dagblad photo / Jaco Klamer
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
THE HAGUE - The Holloway case in terms of PVV MP Hero Brinkman-to carelessly examined. During the visit of a delegation he dives in the case, but he also criticized the new management structure in the Antilles.



MP Hero Brinkman of the PVV appears next week in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway case. During the visit of a parliamentary delegation to the West, he speaks in the Advocate of the missing American teenager, several policemen and some former members of the Public Ministry. ,, The research is so fucked up.''

What can you do what Peter R. de Vries can not?
,, I wish that the case was a cover it. Because that likely to happen now. Peter R. de Vries has updated me about everything and I've read about the case, so I am well prepared. And I agreed that I tell him everything I know to do.''

What do you discover?
,, The Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes has been corrupt, but in this case I think he speaks the truth. Croes has suggested that the father of Joran van der Sloot in Aruba and the police were very good friends. That police chief said that he would have the son of his best friend could not continue. That explains why the investigation only after ten days was set in motion, while four hours after the disappearance of Natalee Joran already clear that there was closely involved.,,

You are also plans for the new governance structure of the West on such matters. Are not you afraid that you Antilles hence the cabinet hunts.
,, I say what I think and I see what happens. I'm starting Monday at the table with various people I have accused of corruption. I do not know how they will approach me, but I'm still welcome.''

What are you going to blame the West?
,, There is an agreement that the Netherlands seventy percent of the debt charity, and that control over administration and justice. That seems good, but what does the island of Curacao was the first council done? The private pension supplemented with 1.3 million euros. This is an geneerde form of self-enrichment which the dog does not eat bread.''

,, I foresee that in the West as quickly as possible the money would have to be as fast as possible to them. The negotiations on the constitutional changes are, unfortunately, wrong place. We ought to agree that they may make no new debt.''

I wonder if what I have bolded is translated properly?  Within 4 hours?  Could he be talking about the 4:00 am pickup of Joran by Paulus? Or, 4 hours after she was reported missing by the chaperone?

Wasn't Joran supposedly telling other students at school that Natalee drowned?  If she died at 3 or 4 a.m., Joran was at school by 8 am or so; that would be around 4 hours.

True.  Since he mentioned the polis and the friendship with Paulus I was just wondering if Paulus had contacted Van Der Sloot that morning and there is evidence of that Brinkman is aware of to prove it.  That would be quite a piece of evidence!!

Seems very possible Paulus contacted VDS early that morning.  Geez, they should have no problem prosecuting Joran now with all this evidence!

[texasmom]

Quantico is a Marine Corp Base that houses among other things the FBI academy.

So were these agents onboard from the regular FBI which is in Washington, DC, or from Bardados?  There are some lab facilities at Quantico but the forensic samples in the plastic bags were only in the ALE dive boat was my understanding from Kyle's posts.

Just following along, here, Anna....my thoughts were along the same lines.

Someone from Quantico could be a Marine, lol. 


Marine Corps Base Quantico
It's called the "Crossroads of the Marine Corps," and during its 80 year tenure on the approximately 100 square miles of land located along the western bank of the Potomac River, Marine Corps Base Quantico has been a training site for Marines and a birthing place of Marine Corps concepts.

The Marine Corps Base provides functional support for the overall Quantico mission including the provision of personnel administration, facilities, logistics, financial security, safety, public information, legal, base operations, training, administration, morale, welfare and recreation support for organic and tenant organizations.

Didn't Dompig train at Quantico?? Maybe HE was on board the Persistence!

That's really a scary thought!    

[texasmom]

TexasMom, was that picture of the woman you just posted the one in the boat deceased that appeared in an Aruban newspaper? How sad that respect for her wasn't shown.  She appears to be a gift to society to be cherished not flashed before the world to see her last moment on earth.

Yes, I believe it's the same woman.  Very sad.   

[cajun miracle]

It is now 2009 and I thank all of you for allowing me to be a part of the Monkey cage. Since Red has said that things WILL be happening, I ask all of you to just have patience and then we will have answers. We are here because we all care about Natalee and her family. Many of the recent posts are very confusing but I still have faith that justice will be won. We all must keep asking questions and searching for the truth.

God Bless all of you for caring.
Cajun Miracle

[truthseeker2]

http://www.nd.nl/artikelen/2009/januari/02/pvv-er-brinkman-uit-zijn-kritiek-op-zaak-holloway

Brinkman PVV'er from his criticism of Holloway case Published: 03 January 2009 05:00, last updated: 02 January 2009 21:43

by Dick Hofland

PVV-MP Hero Brinkman. | Nederlands Dagblad photo / Jaco Klamer
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
THE HAGUE - The Holloway case in terms of PVV MP Hero Brinkman-to carelessly examined. During the visit of a delegation he dives in the case, but he also criticized the new management structure in the Antilles.



MP Hero Brinkman of the PVV appears next week in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway case. During the visit of a parliamentary delegation to the West, he speaks in the Advocate of the missing American teenager, several policemen and some former members of the Public Ministry. ,, The research is so fucked up.''

What can you do what Peter R. de Vries can not?
,, I wish that the case was a cover it. Because that likely to happen now. Peter R. de Vries has updated me about everything and I've read about the case, so I am well prepared. And I agreed that I tell him everything I know to do.''

What do you discover?
,, The Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes has been corrupt, but in this case I think he speaks the truth. Croes has suggested that the father of Joran van der Sloot in Aruba and the police were very good friends. That police chief said that he would have the son of his best friend could not continue. That explains why the investigation only after ten days was set in motion, while four hours after the disappearance of Natalee Joran already clear that there was closely involved.,,

You are also plans for the new governance structure of the West on such matters. Are not you afraid that you Antilles hence the cabinet hunts.
,, I say what I think and I see what happens. I'm starting Monday at the table with various people I have accused of corruption. I do not know how they will approach me, but I'm still welcome.''

What are you going to blame the West?
,, There is an agreement that the Netherlands seventy percent of the debt charity, and that control over administration and justice. That seems good, but what does the island of Curacao was the first council done? The private pension supplemented with 1.3 million euros. This is an geneerde form of self-enrichment which the dog does not eat bread.''

,, I foresee that in the West as quickly as possible the money would have to be as fast as possible to them. The negotiations on the constitutional changes are, unfortunately, wrong place. We ought to agree that they may make no new debt.''

I wonder if what I have bolded is translated properly?  Within 4 hours?  Could he be talking about the 4:00 am pickup of Joran by Paulus? Or, 4 hours after she was reported missing by the chaperone?

Wasn't Joran supposedly telling other students at school that Natalee drowned?  If she died at 3 or 4 a.m., Joran was at school by 8 am or so; that would be around 4 hours.

True.  Since he mentioned the polis and the friendship with Paulus I was just wondering if Paulus had contacted Van Der Sloot that morning and there is evidence of that Brinkman is aware of to prove it.  That would be quite a piece of evidence!!

Seems very possible Paulus contacted VDS early that morning.  Geez, they should have no problem prosecuting Joran now with all this evidence!

I don't know if that is what he meant, but that statement sure made me wonder.  Red said things were happening...

[klaasend]

I think we need Kermit, Jen, or wingnut to come back and re-state the timelines as they know it.

I think we need Tim Miller to explain it to us.

Tim Miller was not on the persistence when the ROV video was taken on jan 7...John S. put him off the ship on Dec 30th....

No but I am sure Tim could answer if the FBI were involved. I am sure he could answer what the protocol was in turning over footage. I am sure he could answer if he was removed from the Persistence. I am sure he could answer if he felt John Silvetti was involved in a cover-up with the FBI. I think those answers would go a long way right now.

Ldstlou, you have convinced me.  Your explanations sound straightforward and credible. 

    How are her explanations any more credible than any one elses?  Because she spoke with Kyle or Jug?

Just my opinion.  I'm not basing it on who she got the info from, just that the info seems to make sense.  I'm just not buying the conspiracy theories about the Persistence crew.  The Freebirds believed everything Kyle said and based their theories on his words, and if Kyle mislead them, the conclusions they drew cannot be correct.

Since Kyle was the spokesperson for the Persistence search, as proven in the blog he maintained to keep people updated on the progress, why would KYLE then intentionally give false information to those in the Freebird forum?  Why should we not believe Kyle's own words to be true?  Or is he a liar?

[iris44]

I think we need Kermit, Jen, or wingnut to come back and re-state the timelines as they know it.

I think we need Tim Miller to explain it to us.

Tim Miller was not on the persistence when the ROV video was taken on jan 7...John S. put him off the ship on Dec 30th....

No but I am sure Tim could answer if the FBI were involved. I am sure he could answer what the protocol was in turning over footage. I am sure he could answer if he was removed from the Persistence. I am sure he could answer if he felt John Silvetti was involved in a cover-up with the FBI. I think those answers would go a long way right now.

Ldstlou, you have convinced me.  Your explanations sound straightforward and credible. 

    How are her explanations any more credible than any one elses?  Because she spoke with Kyle or Jug?

Just my opinion.  I'm not basing it on who she got the info from, just that the info seems to make sense.  I'm just not buying the conspiracy theories about the Persistence crew.  The Freebirds believed everything Kyle said and based their theories on his words, and if Kyle mislead them, the conclusions they drew cannot be correct.

So why would Kyle "mislead" Freebirds? 

Could be millions of reasons!  People lie to me constantly (but then, I'm an auditor). The only ones I can catch consistently are my own family members!  And sometimes my kids can still fool me. (One's a cop, he's really good!)

[Blue Moon]

It is now 2009 and I thank all of you for allowing me to be a part of the Monkey cage. Since Red has said that things WILL be happening, I ask all of you to just have patience and then we will have answers. We are here because we all care about Natalee and her family. Many of the recent posts are very confusing but I still have faith that justice will be won. We all must keep asking questions and searching for the truth.

God Bless all of you for caring.
Cajun Miracle

Your frog looks like it is saying "Ribbet, Ribbet".

And you are right we all are here for Natalee and true Justice for her and her family.

[truthseeker2]

Could be millions of reasons!  People lie to me constantly (but then, I'm an auditor). The only ones I can catch consistently are my own family members!  And sometimes my kids can still fool me. (One's a cop, he's really good!)

  Yikes!  Of the IRS variety???

[wreck]

Iris:

Could be millions of reasons!  People lie to me constantly (but then, I'm an auditor). The only ones I can catch consistently are my own family members!  And sometimes my kids can still fool me. (One's a cop, he's really good!)

I'm not doubting he COULD lie - I'm asking WHY would he?? Who/what does that serve?

[billb's daughter]

I think we need Kermit, Jen, or wingnut to come back and re-state the timelines as they know it.

I think we need Tim Miller to explain it to us.

Tim Miller was not on the persistence when the ROV video was taken on jan 7...John S. put him off the ship on Dec 30th....

No but I am sure Tim could answer if the FBI were involved. I am sure he could answer what the protocol was in turning over footage. I am sure he could answer if he was removed from the Persistence. I am sure he could answer if he felt John Silvetti was involved in a cover-up with the FBI. I think those answers would go a long way right now.

Ldstlou, you have convinced me.  Your explanations sound straightforward and credible. 

    How are her explanations any more credible than any one elses?  Because she spoke with Kyle or Jug?

Just my opinion.  I'm not basing it on who she got the info from, just that the info seems to make sense.  I'm just not buying the conspiracy theories about the Persistence crew.  The Freebirds believed everything Kyle said and based their theories on his words, and if Kyle mislead them, the conclusions they drew cannot be correct.

So why would Kyle "mislead" Freebirds? 

Could be millions of reasons!  People lie to me constantly (but then, I'm an auditor). The only ones I can catch consistently are my own family members!  And sometimes my kids can still fool me. (One's a cop, he's really good!)

iris44....good to know...if i am every audited by the irs....I hope you are the auditor....

[iris44]

I think we need Kermit, Jen, or wingnut to come back and re-state the timelines as they know it.

I think we need Tim Miller to explain it to us.

Tim Miller was not on the persistence when the ROV video was taken on jan 7...John S. put him off the ship on Dec 30th....

No but I am sure Tim could answer if the FBI were involved. I am sure he could answer what the protocol was in turning over footage. I am sure he could answer if he was removed from the Persistence. I am sure he could answer if he felt John Silvetti was involved in a cover-up with the FBI. I think those answers would go a long way right now.

Ldstlou, you have convinced me.  Your explanations sound straightforward and credible. 

    How are her explanations any more credible than any one elses?  Because she spoke with Kyle or Jug?

Just my opinion.  I'm not basing it on who she got the info from, just that the info seems to make sense.  I'm just not buying the conspiracy theories about the Persistence crew.  The Freebirds believed everything Kyle said and based their theories on his words, and if Kyle mislead them, the conclusions they drew cannot be correct.

Since Kyle was the spokesperson for the Persistence search, as proven in the blog he maintained to keep people updated on the progress, why would KYLE then intentionally give false information to those in the Freebird forum?  Why should we not believe Kyle's own words to be true?  Or is he a liar?

What I have to remind myself when I can't figure out why someone is doing something, is that most people have their own agenda in mind.  There are some good people, but most I deal with in the business world are looking out for Numero Uno!  It's as simple as that.

[Blue Moon]

I think we need Kermit, Jen, or wingnut to come back and re-state the timelines as they know it.

I think we need Tim Miller to explain it to us.

Tim Miller was not on the persistence when the ROV video was taken on jan 7...John S. put him off the ship on Dec 30th....

No but I am sure Tim could answer if the FBI were involved. I am sure he could answer what the protocol was in turning over footage. I am sure he could answer if he was removed from the Persistence. I am sure he could answer if he felt John Silvetti was involved in a cover-up with the FBI. I think those answers would go a long way right now.

Ldstlou, you have convinced me.  Your explanations sound straightforward and credible. 

    How are her explanations any more credible than any one elses?  Because she spoke with Kyle or Jug?

Just my opinion.  I'm not basing it on who she got the info from, just that the info seems to make sense.  I'm just not buying the conspiracy theories about the Persistence crew.  The Freebirds believed everything Kyle said and based their theories on his words, and if Kyle mislead them, the conclusions they drew cannot be correct.

So why would Kyle "mislead" Freebirds? 

Could be millions of reasons!  People lie to me constantly (but then, I'm an auditor). The only ones I can catch consistently are my own family members!  And sometimes my kids can still fool me. (One's a cop, he's really good!)

iris44....good to know...if i am every audited by the irs....I hope you are the auditor....

Me too Iris.  (Note to Klaasend-NEVER give out my email address to Iris.  thanks)
 

[texasmom]

billb