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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #789 1/1/09 - 1/3/09  (Read 225416 times)
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No Body...No Tourism aruba! Bring Natalee Home!


« Reply #940 on: January 03, 2009, 03:18:20 PM »

To add to the maritime confusion, there is also a Dutch Marine presence in the area.  Not sure which the Panther/Panter belonged to after all this time.
I was going to ask the same thing, but the forum crashed for me! Is the Panter/Panther Aruban or is it Dutch owned?
The link I posted on page 46 of this thread describes the three coast guard ships:
http://books.google.com/books?id=5iDJCTRvNjEC&pg=PA503&lpg=PA503&dq=aruban+coast+guard&source=web&ots=8jQZk7mKKa&sig=MU5LhehZUFa-Mg0zq4tADw-AKjc&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPA503,M1
The Panter, Jaguar, and Poema...
The Panter was the one I believe Rob pointed out in the aru-bay videos...I think Auruba makes payments to the Royal Netherlands Navy for the ships/and-or Dutch crewmembers that work on the ships along with Aruban sailors..there was a front page post on SM this past June about the payments:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/06/24/will-the-coast-guard-send-aruba-to-collections-aruba-behind-in-payments/
The part about dutch sailors augmenting the aruban sailors is on the first link above....
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #941 on: January 03, 2009, 03:18:55 PM »

So, if there were no human remains in that cage and ALE knows it, because they retrieved the contents on the 7th, why waste time vacuuming the sand?  Didn't we recently here it was shells or coral?

I cannot comprehend why Kyle Kingman and John Silvetti were attempting to cut a deal with the major networks in regards to a discovery that was not related to the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

THE NETWORKS


Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing. The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S. I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship.
 
The next step:

I will soon propose a meeting with Beth and other family members, myself, Tim Trahan, Peter DeVries, and whomever else necessary to go over the ROV video, contents, and case status. I would like a couple people very familiar with the case documents also present to help connect dots during the meeting. I would prefer meeting towards the end of April or mid-May to allow adequate time for things to shake themselves out if is going to. If necessary, I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level. We met in mid-Feb about this already. The question becomes timing, who needs to be there, and whether or not it's covered by the press. I prefer not, but it may be useful. DeVries doesn't need to be there in my opinion but he's good for ratings and helps ABC be cooperative if needed.



And it wasn't Kyle's job to turn over anything to the FBI,he wasn't the one in charge of turning things over,yadda,yadda,yadda...Seems to me he was in knee deep with everything...
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« Reply #942 on: January 03, 2009, 03:24:25 PM »


It's all Natalee's family wanted from the beginning.  It's the PRIME FACTOR in the efforts, and the main reason this has continued.  I hope Aruba has realized it . . . finally.

One good thing is that the activities surrounding the cage/trap indicate Natalee was not completely destroyed.  Even if they are trying to snooker us (once again) it won't work without the actual remains verified by the FBI.

This is a very hopeful sign, imo.
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« Reply #943 on: January 03, 2009, 03:38:24 PM »

Correct. The Panter is a Dutch Coast Guard patrol cutter
NAACGC Panter P811
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« Reply #944 on: January 03, 2009, 03:40:33 PM »


It's all Natalee's family wanted from the beginning.  It's the PRIME FACTOR in the efforts, and the main reason this has continued.  I hope Aruba has realized it . . . finally.

One good thing is that the activities surrounding the cage/trap indicate Natalee was not completely destroyed.  Even if they are trying to snooker us (once again) it won't work without the actual remains verified by the FBI.

This is a very hopeful sign, imo.

Yes, it is.  We've seen hopeful signs before that haven't materialized; but, Aruba has had plenty of time to assess their miscalculations.  Maybe this time they will choose more wisely.

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« Reply #945 on: January 03, 2009, 03:41:10 PM »

O/T

Just found the link to the article about Schaefer.  Just posting so I don't lose it again:


January 4, 2008

Until Underwater Expeditions can get a hold of their own boat, Schaefer is financing expeditions on other boats. One such expedition is currently out in Caribbean waters off Aruba looking for the remains of Natalee Holloway, an Alabama high school senior whose 2005 disappearance became a media sensation.

We are also going to explore some sunken shipwrecks — for treasure,” Stovall said.

These expeditions are an interesting part of this investment, but not very profitable, Stovall said. The charter tour operations should make Underwater Expeditions break even, at least, he said.

“Louis believes that having fun in work is bigger and better than money,” Stovall said. “This isn’t a have-to business.”


http://www.fishcoastaltexas.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8368.html
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« Reply #946 on: January 03, 2009, 03:45:07 PM »


It's all Natalee's family wanted from the beginning.  It's the PRIME FACTOR in the efforts, and the main reason this has continued.  I hope Aruba has realized it . . . finally.

One good thing is that the activities surrounding the cage/trap indicate Natalee was not completely destroyed.  Even if they are trying to snooker us (once again) it won't work without the actual remains verified by the FBI.

This is a very hopeful sign, imo.

Yes, it is.  We've seen hopeful signs before that haven't materialized; but, Aruba has had plenty of time to assess their miscalculations.  Maybe this time they will choose more wisely.


I wished I shared your optimism, but just who is going to make Aruba turn over what they have? Those who are guilty of the cover-up won't ever reveal what they have. I cannot expect to ever see "justice" for Natalee, but I do expect the truth to be exposed to the world. Aruba will have to live with their shame.
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« Reply #947 on: January 03, 2009, 03:45:15 PM »

The problem for some here is that they take ONE sentence and analyze it to death. In order to comprehend what Kermit, Jen etc. are telling us, you need to step back and look at the whole picture. Each statement by Kyle alone is "defensible" -- NOT, however when you look at the whole picture and in the proper time table.

Excuse me, wreck, but the whole picture has not been presented.  With all due respect, I am just as capable of comprehending as any other monkey.  Re: Natalee Case Discussion #789 1/1/09 -
« Reply #713 on: Today at 02:55:36 AM »and I hope you do not mind of I ask for it.  If it cannot be provided, then I will still question the conclusions.  Not agree or disagee, just question. 

Stepping back is good advice, maybe, for all of us.

Truth, with all due respect, this information has been posted repeatedly.  You have been here, you know this.  It is great to question, but why question something that has been stated so many times over.  You are capable of going back and reading these posts like all the rest of us.  They are there.  Do you want us to drag them back out to prove that single post of Kermits? 

KY, actually the complete context of that particular statement has not been posted here.  I have been quietly watching for it.

But, I'm stepping back.  One line of discussion here and this is not the only thing I am interested in. 

Truth Actually, the complete context of that particular statement HAS been posted here.

Please go back to this link ...........Re: Natalee Case Discussion #789 1/1/09 -
« Reply #713 on: Today at 02:55:36 AM »


Read the above reply #713 and  #714, #715, #716 and #717.  You must have missed this, as I believe this answers your question.

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« Reply #948 on: January 03, 2009, 03:50:38 PM »

O/T

Just found the link to the article about Schaefer.  Just posting so I don't lose it again:


January 4, 2008

Until Underwater Expeditions can get a hold of their own boat, Schaefer is financing expeditions on other boats. One such expedition is currently out in Caribbean waters off Aruba looking for the remains of Natalee Holloway, an Alabama high school senior whose 2005 disappearance became a media sensation.

We are also going to explore some sunken shipwrecks — for treasure,” Stovall said.

These expeditions are an interesting part of this investment, but not very profitable, Stovall said. The charter tour operations should make Underwater Expeditions break even, at least, he said.

“Louis believes that having fun in work is bigger and better than money,” Stovall said. “This isn’t a have-to business.”


http://www.fishcoastaltexas.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8368.html

Thanks for that Buckeye.  I remember the sunken treasures being an interest.  But, I don't believe for a minute that Schaeffer believes that having fun in work is bigger and better than MONEY!!!   

 
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« Reply #949 on: January 03, 2009, 03:51:14 PM »

Out for a bit.BBL..
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« Reply #950 on: January 03, 2009, 03:54:16 PM »

O/T

Just found the link to the article about Schaefer.  Just posting so I don't lose it again:


January 4, 2008

Until Underwater Expeditions can get a hold of their own boat, Schaefer is financing expeditions on other boats. One such expedition is currently out in Caribbean waters off Aruba looking for the remains of Natalee Holloway, an Alabama high school senior whose 2005 disappearance became a media sensation.

We are also going to explore some sunken shipwrecks — for treasure,” Stovall said.

These expeditions are an interesting part of this investment, but not very profitable, Stovall said. The charter tour operations should make Underwater Expeditions break even, at least, he said.

“Louis believes that having fun in work is bigger and better than money,” Stovall said. “This isn’t a have-to business.”


http://www.fishcoastaltexas.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8368.html

Thanks for that Buckeye.  I remember the sunken treasures being an interest.  But, I don't believe for a minute that Schaeffer believes that having fun in work is bigger and better than MONEY!!!   

 
Fun puts bread on the table!!!   
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« Reply #951 on: January 03, 2009, 03:58:15 PM »

Wreck

 

Fun has never put food on my table................usually just takes away from table!

But I'm up for it, anywho!
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« Reply #952 on: January 03, 2009, 03:58:41 PM »

I wished I shared your optimism, but just who is going to make Aruba turn over what they have? Those who are guilty of the cover-up won't ever reveal what they have. I cannot expect to ever see "justice" for Natalee, but I do expect the truth to be exposed to the world. Aruba will have to live with their shame.


I don't have much optimism either, wreck.  Maybe those tapes of Colombians will implicate Paulus in hiring pros for disposal of remains or even tell where?  We don't even know for sure if Natalee was in that fish trap or not and appears now we will just have to take the word of ALE that they did in fact turn over all they had which is very hard to believe.

I think the reason it took so long for Richardson to send to the FBI was he was waiting for results locally himself before sending to be sure nothing of Natalee was being sent.  Wanted the answers before posing the question.  So they knew they were safe to send to FBI.

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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

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« Reply #953 on: January 03, 2009, 04:03:17 PM »

To add to the maritime confusion, there is also a Dutch Marine presence in the area.  Not sure which the Panther/Panter belonged to after all this time.
I was going to ask the same thing, but the forum crashed for me! Is the Panter/Panther Aruban or is it Dutch owned?
The link I posted on page 46 of this thread describes the three coast guard ships:
http://books.google.com/books?id=5iDJCTRvNjEC&pg=PA503&lpg=PA503&dq=aruban+coast+guard&source=web&ots=8jQZk7mKKa&sig=MU5LhehZUFa-Mg0zq4tADw-AKjc&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPA503,M1
The Panter, Jaguar, and Poema...
The Panter was the one I believe Rob pointed out in the aru-bay videos...I think Auruba makes payments to the Royal Netherlands Navy for the ships/and-or Dutch crewmembers that work on the ships along with Aruban sailors..there was a front page post on SM this past June about the payments:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/06/24/will-the-coast-guard-send-aruba-to-collections-aruba-behind-in-payments/
The part about dutch sailors augmenting the aruban sailors is on the first link above....

P811 Panter (1999) , Patrol Vessels for the Caribbean. Officially, not from the navy, but the Coast Guard Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.
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« Reply #954 on: January 03, 2009, 04:04:43 PM »

Janet, I too, need an EDIT button.  For goodness sakes, I have messed up my earlier post.  2NJ    Would you please fix my post, the one addressed to Truth.  I accidently messed up his quote within the quote stack and I'm sure he doesn't want me putting words in his mouth ...

Bad enough words come out of mine!! 

I think I messed up because my head hurts.  It spun around so much last night, I felt like Linda Blair.... just needed some green pea soup to complete my act.

 
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« Reply #955 on: January 03, 2009, 04:05:53 PM »

The problem for some here is that they take ONE sentence and analyze it to death. In order to comprehend what Kermit, Jen etc. are telling us, you need to step back and look at the whole picture. Each statement by Kyle alone is "defensible" -- NOT, however when you look at the whole picture and in the proper time table.

Excuse me, wreck, but the whole picture has not been presented.  With all due respect, I am just as capable of comprehending as any other monkey.  Re: Natalee Case Discussion #789 1/1/09 -
« Reply #713 on: Today at 02:55:36 AM »and I hope you do not mind of I ask for it.  If it cannot be provided, then I will still question the conclusions.  Not agree or disagee, just question. 

Stepping back is good advice, maybe, for all of us.

Truth, with all due respect, this information has been posted repeatedly.  You have been here, you know this.  It is great to question, but why question something that has been stated so many times over.  You are capable of going back and reading these posts like all the rest of us.  They are there.  Do you want us to drag them back out to prove that single post of Kermits? 

KY, actually the complete context of that particular statement has not been posted here.  I have been quietly watching for it.

But, I'm stepping back.  One line of discussion here and this is not the only thing I am interested in. 

Truth Actually, the complete context of that particular statement HAS been posted here.

Please go back to this link ...........Re: Natalee Case Discussion #789 1/1/09 -
« Reply #713 on: Today at 02:55:36 AM »


Read the above reply #713 and  #714, #715, #716 and #717.  You must have missed this, as I believe this answers your question.



713 - This is the only post that statement appeared in the list of posts you have there.  I still do not see the actual question that prompted that response.  Which question was it?  (His name is misspelled on one?)  And one instance doesn't have a date.  Was that included on the 11 Feb 2008 date and again on March 18th?  Either way, I don't think this is the topic I need to be involved with anymore.  I'll just stay out of it.  But thanks for pointing this out.  I had already seen it though.

FEB:
Kyle: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: "I should clarify that the footage proceeds (if sold) wouldn't even have covered the cost of the project, but it would have helped.


11 Feb 2008 - Kyle asks for donations for the Persistence to continue the search. They are out of funds.


Kyle: "Klye:  I did not give the information to the FBI and I'm unaware of anyone relaying the possibility to them.

February 27 there is a side sonar search of the pond. Kyle said it was to rule out one of the ponds that had never been searched
February 27 Caps uses a shango post to give the directions to the pond
FEBRUARY 29 LAWSUIT ANNOUNCED ON SCHAEFFER'S COMPANY BY A LAW FIRM IN LOUISIANA
http://au.us.biz.yahoo.com/iw/080229/0368776.html



MAR 1. The RV Persistence announced it was returning and needed funds
MARCH 1, 2008 - KYLE POSTS AT SM THEY FLY OUT OF ARUBA TOMORROW

Kyle: "Kyle: I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana"

March 18th Kyle stated: "I did not give the information to the FBI and I'm unaware of anyone relaying the possibility to them. I"

March 20th Kyle stated: "I prefer moving forward with the evidence I have access and knowledge about and using that as a can opener. Once the can is open, the worms are revealed."



Kyle: The next step:
I will soon propose a meeting with Beth and other family members, myself, Tim Trahan, Peter DeVries, and whomever else necessary to go over the ROV video, contents, and case status. I would like a couple people very familiar with the case documents also present to help connect dots during the meeting. I would prefer meeting towards the end of April or mid-May to allow adequate time for things to shake themselves out if is going to. If necessary, I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level. We met in mid-Feb about this already. The question becomes timing, who needs to be there, and whether or not it's covered by the press. I prefer not, but it may be useful. DeVries doesn't need to be there in my opinion but he's good for ratings and helps ABC be cooperative if needed.

May 19, 2008: "KYLE: "I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana. I had some stuff on my hard drive, but not those logs with the names. The logs and other information are in an unknown secure location. Only two people know that location and I am not one of them. I know better not even to ask about it, especially now."
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« Reply #956 on: January 03, 2009, 04:06:28 PM »

So, if there were no human remains in that cage and ALE knows it, because they retrieved the contents on the 7th, why waste time vacuuming the sand?  Didn't we recently here it was shells or coral?

I cannot comprehend why Kyle Kingman and John Silvetti were attempting to cut a deal with the major networks in regards to a discovery that was not related to the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

THE NETWORKS


Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing. The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S. I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship.
 
The next step:

I will soon propose a meeting with Beth and other family members, myself, Tim Trahan, Peter DeVries, and whomever else necessary to go over the ROV video, contents, and case status. I would like a couple people very familiar with the case documents also present to help connect dots during the meeting. I would prefer meeting towards the end of April or mid-May to allow adequate time for things to shake themselves out if is going to. If necessary, I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level. We met in mid-Feb about this already. The question becomes timing, who needs to be there, and whether or not it's covered by the press. I prefer not, but it may be useful. DeVries doesn't need to be there in my opinion but he's good for ratings and helps ABC be cooperative if needed.



And it wasn't Kyle's job to turn over anything to the FBI,he wasn't the one in charge of turning things over,yadda,yadda,yadda...Seems to me he was in knee deep with everything...

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle stated: "No one else has access or copies of the photos or footage. All fingers point back to me when this leaks."

 

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« Reply #957 on: January 03, 2009, 04:08:36 PM »

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY ADVIL?  WHISKEY?  TEQUILLA?  MORPHINE?  ANYTHING?
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« Reply #958 on: January 03, 2009, 04:11:08 PM »

The TV networks were aware of the blue fabric in the trap in mid-February, but the family did not know until March! 
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« Reply #959 on: January 03, 2009, 04:16:10 PM »

The FBI shared pics of trap from Dec. 29th (the ones Kyle says HE sent them) with Dave and Robin. The FBI didn't share the pics from Jan.7th because THEY NEVER HAD THEM!. If Kyle was the one to send the De. 29th pics to the FBI -- why didn't he also send the Jan. 7th pics? He certainly had them (to SELL) in February.
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