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Author Topic: Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, Missing 6/16/08 Orlando FL (Remains Found) #85  (Read 321093 times)
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perriwinkle
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« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2009, 11:19:29 PM »

you know, they keep saying that this case is a circumstantial case.  But how can they say that with all the evidence WE have seen, not counting what we haven't?  Just because KC was not caught on film at Target actually killing her baby?  Call me stupid but how can they keep saying that? 

Exactly, especially with the evidence in her trunk and a phantom nanny.

Yes.  I have also heard that they can't actually connect her with anything in relation to the killing.  THE CAR????!!!????  And the fact that she was the last person seen with her daughter.

I am sure I saw this on JVM.  Say what you want, I think I could host that show. 
1.  I have much better hair.  (sorry but it is true)

and drum roll please.....

2.  I actually kow about the case   
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« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2009, 11:19:34 PM »

you know, they keep saying that this case is a circumstantial case.  But how can they say that with all the evidence WE have seen, not counting what we haven't?  Just because KC was not caught on film at Target actually killing her baby?  Call me stupid but how can they keep saying that? 
Probably because "they" don't know the evidence that LE has.  This is not a circumstantial case; there is a lot of hard evidence.  LE has done their job well and not released this yet.  We'll hear it at trial.  I think those that are calling this a circumstantial case are simply trying to entice viewers to their media.
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BooMonkey
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« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2009, 11:19:55 PM »

hello everyone 

G'day Lucinda!!! I just missed you this morning!!! 
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QuietMonkey
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« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2009, 11:21:21 PM »

Casey's Closet, Caylee's Room Searched

Monday, December 22, 2008 – updated: 9:29 am EST January 1, 2009
ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- WFTV has learned crime scene investigators stripped Caylee Anthony's room and then raided Casey's closet during a recent search of the home.

Crime scene investigators have confiscated boxes of items from the Anthony home two times in the past week.

Sources tell Eyewitness News last Thursday, investigators were focused on Caylee Anthony. They took her clothes, shoes and her toys.

Over the weekend, another search warrant was executed and investigators came back for Casey Anthony's belongings. They took more of Caylee's clothes, five to eight pairs of Casey's shoes and her clothes as well.

Hi Adoraboo! Yes I see what you're thinking about the "raiding the closet". It does sound kind of funny. I didn't actually think of it that way till you said it though. You are a silly Monkey sometimes!
 
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perriwinkle
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« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2009, 11:21:25 PM »

I can't believe I made..I have the flu so I have been mostly lurking today,it hurts to type. (I don't care what my mom says, it's the FLU) Anyhow, does anyone know about the sunshine laws that can help me. They are by far the most liberal I have ever seen. How do they distinguish what can be released under that law vrs what is held until trial? If they have to have everything to the defense before trial, surely that doesn't mean that everyone sees everything they (LE) has before trial, does it?

Hey Cutie,

GREAT QUESTION!!!

i wish i had the answer....

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We could learn a lot from crayons...

some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors, but they all exist very nicely in the same box.
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« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2009, 11:22:13 PM »

you know, they keep saying that this case is a circumstantial case.  But how can they say that with all the evidence WE have seen, not counting what we haven't?  Just because KC was not caught on film at Target actually killing her baby?  Call me stupid but how can they keep saying that? 
Probably because "they" don't know the evidence that LE has.  This is not a circumstantial case; there is a lot of hard evidence.  LE has done their job well and not released this yet.  We'll hear it at trial.  I think those that are calling this a circumstantial case are simply trying to entice viewers to their media.
Amen,  we will be surprised when the trial starts at what cards LE is holding...........
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BooMonkey
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« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2009, 11:23:06 PM »

you know, they keep saying that this case is a circumstantial case.  But how can they say that with all the evidence WE have seen, not counting what we haven't?  Just because KC was not caught on film at Target actually killing her baby?  Call me stupid but how can they keep saying that? 

Circumstantial evidence is a collection of facts that, when considered together, can be used to infer a conclusion about something unknown. Circumstantial evidence is usually a theory, supported by a significant quantity of corroborating evidence. Corroboration is normally supplied by one or more expert witnesses who provide forensic evidence.

Compared to direct evidence

If a witness testifies that the defendant was seen entering a house, then screaming was heard, then the defendant was seen leaving, carrying a bloody knife, that is circumstantial evidence; if a witness testifies that he/she actually saw the defendant stabbing the victim, that is direct evidence. Similarly, if a videotape is entered into evidence showing the defendant entering the house, stabbing the victim, and leaving the house, that too is circumstantial evidence.

Applications of circumstantial evidence

The two areas of importance are criminal and civil cases where direct evidence is lacking. Forensic evidence is often crucial in establishing the truth of a matter, especially when corroborated by independent tests. Expert evidence is usually needed to prove forensic conclusions.

Criminal Law

Circumstantial evidence is used in criminal courts to establish guilt or innocence through reasoning.

The distinction between direct and circumstantial evidence is important because, with the obvious exceptions (the immature, incompetent, or mentally ill), nearly all criminals are careful to not generate direct evidence[clarification needed], and try to avoid demonstrating criminal intent. Therefore, to prove the mens rea levels of "purposely" or "knowingly," the prosecution must usually resort to circumstantial evidence. The same goes for tortfeasors in tort law, if one needs to prove a high level of mens rea to obtain punitive damages. In addition, circumstantial evidence -- such as fingerprint evdience -- is usually the best available evidence to support an inference as to the facts of the case.

One example of circumstantial evidence is the behavior of a person around the time of an alleged offense. If someone was charged with theft of money, and was then seen in a shopping spree purchasing expensive items, the shopping spree might be regarded as circumstantial evidence of the individual's guilt.

Forensic evidence

Other examples of circumstantial evidence are fingerprint, blood analysis or DNA analysis of the evidence found at the scene of a crime. These types of evidence may strongly point to a certain conclusion when taken into consideration with other facts, but if not directly witnessed by someone when the crime was committed, they are still considered to be circumstantial in nature. However, when proved by expert witnesses, they are usually sufficient to decide a case especially in the absence of any direct evidence. Owing to the development in forensic methods, old undecided case (or cold cases) are frequently resolved.

A popular misconception is that circumstantial evidence is less valid or less important than direct evidence. This is only partly true: direct evidence is popularly, but mistakenly, considered more powerful, while in fact many successful criminal prosecutions often rely largely or entirely on circumstantial evidence, and civil charges are frequently based on circumstantial or indirect evidence. Indeed, the common metaphor for the strongest possible evidence in any case -- the 'smoking gun' -- is in fact an example of proof based on circumstantial evidence. Similarly, fingerprint evidence, videotapes, sound recordings, photographrs, and many other examples of physical evidence that support the drawing of an inference, i.e., circumstantial evidence, are considered the strongest possible evidence.

In practice, circumstantial evidence has an advantage over direct evidence in that it is more difficult to suppress or fabricate. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously inaccurate at times, and many persons have been convicted on the basis of perjured or otherwise mistaken testimony. Good strong circumstantial evidence can be a far more reliable basis on which to make a determination of guilt. It should be noted that circumstantial evidence normally requires a witness, such as the police officer who found the evidence, or an expert who examined it, to lay the foundation for its admission. This witness, sometimes known as the sponsor or the authenticating witness, is giving direct (eye-witness) testimony, and could present credibility problems in the same way that any eye witness does.

Much of the evidence against Timothy McVeigh was circumstantial, for example. Speaking about McVeigh's trial, University of Michigan law professor Robert Precht said, "Circumstantial evidence can be, and often is much more powerful than direct evidence". [1] The recent Scott Peterson trial was based heavily on circumstantial evidence.

However, there is sometimes more than one logical conclusion inferable from the same set of circumstances. In cases where one conclusion implies a defendant's guilt and another their innocence, the 'benefit of the doubt' principle would apply. Indeed, if the circumstantial evidence suggests a possibility of innocence, the prosecution has the burden of disproving that possibility.

Civil law

Circumstantial evidence is also used in civil courts to establish or deny liability. It is usually the most common form of evidence, especially in product liability cases, and road traffic accidents for example. Forensic analysis of skid marks can frequently allow a reconstruction of the accident to be made. By measuring the length of such marks and using dynamic analysis of the car and road conditions at the time of the accident, it is usually found that drivers under-estimate the speed at which they were travelling. Forensic science and forensic engineering are both common methods used in civil cases, just as much as in criminal cases.
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"but before I can live with other folks I've got to live with myself.  The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." -Atticus Finch
Lucinda
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« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2009, 11:23:06 PM »

hello everyone 

G'day Lucinda!!! I just missed you this morning!!! 

aww    thanks everyone for the hellos back.  I have windows open in here trying to keep up still 
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perriwinkle
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« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2009, 11:23:24 PM »

you know, they keep saying that this case is a circumstantial case.  But how can they say that with all the evidence WE have seen, not counting what we haven't?  Just because KC was not caught on film at Target actually killing her baby?  Call me stupid but how can they keep saying that? 
Probably because "they" don't know the evidence that LE has.  This is not a circumstantial case; there is a lot of hard evidence.  LE has done their job well and not released this yet.  We'll hear it at trial.  I think those that are calling this a circumstantial case are simply trying to entice viewers to their media.

Agreed.  I can't stand the show I heard it on.  Blech
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We could learn a lot from crayons...

some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors, but they all exist very nicely in the same box.
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« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2009, 11:24:21 PM »

hello everyone 

Welcome back!  You left this morning before I had a chance to say hi!

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QuietMonkey
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« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2009, 11:24:50 PM »

hello everyone 

G'day Lucinda!!! I just missed you this morning!!! 

aww    thanks everyone for the hellos back.  I have windows open in here trying to keep up still 

Good luck with that. I've spent hours trying to catch up sometimes. Sometimes it's just impossible and I skip ahead. 
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« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2009, 11:25:29 PM »

Actually, many people are cashing in on this case, from Nancy Grace to Clint House (who knows nothing significant) to the PI's and anyone else who can sell an interview or media article.  Why did the newspaper say that LE "raided" Casey's closet?  Because that is a word full of connotative meaning and will attract more attention than using a word like "searched."  For the same reason they printed that LE "stripped" Caylee's room.  We know that LE can only remove items specifically stated in the search warrant.  However, these words might arouse more interest, so the paper loads their articles and hopes to sell more papers.  Follow the money.
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BooMonkey
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« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2009, 11:25:52 PM »

Casey's Closet, Caylee's Room Searched

Monday, December 22, 2008 – updated: 9:29 am EST January 1, 2009
ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- WFTV has learned crime scene investigators stripped Caylee Anthony's room and then raided Casey's closet during a recent search of the home.

Crime scene investigators have confiscated boxes of items from the Anthony home two times in the past week.

Sources tell Eyewitness News last Thursday, investigators were focused on Caylee Anthony. They took her clothes, shoes and her toys.

Over the weekend, another search warrant was executed and investigators came back for Casey Anthony's belongings. They took more of Caylee's clothes, five to eight pairs of Casey's shoes and her clothes as well.

Hi Adoraboo! Yes I see what you're thinking about the "raiding the closet". It does sound kind of funny. I didn't actually think of it that way till you said it though. You are a silly Monkey sometimes!
 

Hey Quiet, you are quiet sparklie yourself!! 
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"but before I can live with other folks I've got to live with myself.  The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." -Atticus Finch
wendiw8780
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« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2009, 11:26:17 PM »

i still think someone was trying awfully hard to find Caylee by her 3rd b-day.
Aug 8th-Casey refuses to see her brother on a previousley scheduled jail visit
Aug 9th-Caylee's 3rd b-day
Aug 10th-Casey refuses to see parents
Aug 11th-Casey's brother, Lee cancels a scheduled visit-1st CALL FROM METER READER
Aug 12th-2nd CALL FROM METER READER
Aug 13th-3rd CALL FROM METER READER
Aug 14th-Casey accepts visit from parents
Aug 15th-A dect. with the osco tells Fox news that all future jailhouse visits will be withheld "due to a criminal investigative excemption"
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perriwinkle
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« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2009, 11:26:18 PM »

Thanks for the great info Boo!  I am hoping the the forensics evidence in combo with this circumstantial evidence makes for a in and out jury! 

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« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2009, 11:27:13 PM »

I can't believe I made..I have the flu so I have been mostly lurking today,it hurts to type. (I don't care what my mom says, it's the FLU) Anyhow, does anyone know about the sunshine laws that can help me. They are by far the most liberal I have ever seen. How do they distinguish what can be released under that law vrs what is held until trial? If they have to have everything to the defense before trial, surely that doesn't mean that everyone sees everything they (LE) has before trial, does it?

Hey Cutie,

GREAT QUESTION!!!

i wish i had the answer....


Here is a start:

http://myfloridalegal.com/sunshine

In Florida, every person has been granted the Constitutional right to inspect or copy any public record with some exemptions, and the Sunshine Law provides a right of access to government proceedings at both the state and local levels. These essential laws afford citizens of our state the ability to see behind the curtain of government and remain involved in the processes that affect their lives. Without this access there is little accountability, and accountability is vital for good government.

About the Sunshine Law and Public Records Law
Frequently Asked Questions About Florida's Open Government Laws
View and Search Government-in-the-Sunshine Manual
Download an abridged version of the Government-in-the-Sunshine Manual
How to obtain a published copy of Government-in-the-Sunshine Manual
The Attorney General's Office plays a key role in keeping Florida's government open to all Floridians. The office is charged with mediating disputes involving access to public records and provides a mediation program to that effect - a resource which can be requested by any member of the public and was put into action more than 75 times in 2007. The mediation program involves an impartial individual who encourages and facilitates the resolution of a dispute involving access to public records. The mediators assist the participants in fostering joint problem-solving and exploring settlement alternatives. By allowing parties to resolve issues in an informal mediation process, we prevent expensive and time-consuming litigation which is often not an option for a citizen who is merely trying to hold his or her government accountable and responsible for its actions.

Members of local government entities or law enforcement agencies seeking to resolve public records issues may contact the Attorney General's Office at 850-245-0197.
Consumers seeking mediation may contact the Attorney General's Office at 850-245-0204.
More information about the Attorney General's Open Government Mediation Program
Public Records Law Guide for Law Enforcement Agencies
Request Public Records from the Attorney General's Office
Anyone seeking public records may also call 850-245-0140.
Attorney General McCollum has also launched the Government Accountability Project (GAP) whose objective is to encourage state and local government entities to be proactive in providing Florida's citizens the information and records they need to hold government accountable. The first phase of the GAP study involved a content analysis of the web sites of the 67 counties and school districts in Florida to determine the types of public records currently available online. Phase Two, now underway, includes collaborating with local government entities to increase access to records not readily available, and exploring new technologies to reach out to the people of Florida to find out what they want their government to have available to them.

Learn more about the Government Accountability Project here.


Additional Information:
First Amendment Foundation
Brechner Center for Freedom of Information
Governor's Office of Open Government
Florida Statutes - Chapter 119
Florida Statutes - Chapter 286
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BooMonkey
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« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2009, 11:28:13 PM »

Actually, many people are cashing in on this case, from Nancy Grace to Clint House (who knows nothing significant) to the PI's and anyone else who can sell an interview or media article.  Why did the newspaper say that LE "raided" Casey's closet?  Because that is a word full of connotative meaning and will attract more attention than using a word like "searched."  For the same reason they printed that LE "stripped" Caylee's room.  We know that LE can only remove items specifically stated in the search warrant.  However, these words might arouse more interest, so the paper loads their articles and hopes to sell more papers.  Follow the money.

Very true. Same as that stupid article that accused Jesse Grund of being Caylee's killer then said nothing in the body of the article about it. 
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"but before I can live with other folks I've got to live with myself.  The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." -Atticus Finch
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« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2009, 11:28:27 PM »

Bearly ~  Please check the un-sticky link to this thread     
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Lucinda
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« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2009, 11:29:09 PM »

hello everyone 

Welcome back!  You left this morning before I had a chance to say hi!



Hi Bearly, and you are right QM 
off topic, i just heard the news about John travoltas son, how sad 
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« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2009, 11:29:33 PM »

That was a great post on circumstantial evidence Boo and really appreciated. Are you still taking meds that give you a false sense of well being? I am. It is the only good thing about this FLU!! Are reading this mom, it's the FLU..Given the information you have provided, I am confused why every lawyer says the same thing!!! It had be believing that according to American law, circumstantial evidence was almost as weak as hearsay! Your post helps a great deal.
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