Natalee Case Discussion #790 1/3/09 - 1/6/09

[Anna]

Seems at least that part of the beach was pretty busy that night...yet the beach area of the Marriott did not produce one witness that put Joran and Natalee there.  Hmm.

Funny the fishermen didn't see the MB'ers frollicking in their birthday suits 
Steve Croes saw 2 men and a girl who was screaming.
Joran said nobody was on the beach.

I thought Joran eventually said he saw a "black couple" maybe as he was leaving and thought maybe they would help Natalee.

[AZSunny]

Actually, as I remember this Blonde, and I followed the case pretty closely, is that she was last seen by her family sleeping on the balcony of their cabin at like 3 am in the morning. She left her cigarettes outside on the balcony table.  She had hung around the band members during the cruise. But as far as anyone was aware, her family saw her sleeping on the balcony as the last visual. 

Sorry, this was regarding Amy...

[klaasend]

It appears that Greta is in her studio tonight and not in Aruba.  Her Greta LiveWire is in the studio:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/live.html?stream=1

[WhiskeyGirl]

Does anyone know the terms under which the U.S. FOB station is allowed to operate out of Aruba?  Were these terms negotiated with the Dutch, the Arubans or both?  When is this up for renewal?

I was just recalling the only word from Bachus after the interview with the Arubans when Greta asked him what they were unhappy about.  He said, "Wiretaps."  I have always wondered if by any chance they are the ones who overheard phone conversations perhaps even that early morning or later involving Paulus and van der Straten or any civilians involved at all. 

Perhaps the terms of the agreement called for not eavesdropping on Aruban civilians as the purported reason would be to monitor S. America with Uncle Hugo receiving special attention.

Has this come up for renewal in recent times by any chance?  I can see this base as being very important from this aspect and a reason not to rock the boat.  More so than any single shipment of cocaine, etc.  And National Security trumps everybody.

I don't know about the FOB station.  What I've always wondered about is the link to porn and drugs.

There have been quite a few global efforts regarding porn.  Surveying the creation, transmission, and extent of how it uses the internet.  Were any of these global efforts monitoring Aruba?  The web sites that were linked to the case at that time?  Is it possible porn involving Natalee was uploaded and sits in a case file somewhere?  Perhaps Aruba was a 'small potatos' kind of place and not a target.  Is there a global agency with porn uploads from Aruba the night Natalee went missing?  Maybe records of downloads as well?  Records of those porn sites like "Bangbus"?

[jen3560]

Janet,

I never could figure that one out, to tell you the truth.

I personally researched the copyrights - and no one involved with the Persistence had registered any.

Then also there is the little gem of Shaefer having RESIGNED his position from the company - so he no longer "owned" anything anyway.

I think Kyle just didn't fully understand that.

But according to Kyle - Shaefer DID sell the rights to those images.  LOL - rights he didn't even own.

[jen3560]

It appears that Greta is in her studio tonight and not in Aruba.  Her Greta LiveWire is in the studio:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/live.html?stream=1

So does that mean the Aruban media who announced it was wrong?

[klaasend]

It appears that Greta is in her studio tonight and not in Aruba.  Her Greta LiveWire is in the studio:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/live.html?stream=1

So does that mean the Aruban media who announced it was wrong?

Maybe a bad translation?  Maybe Greta and Beth are DUE to arrive??  I really don't know.  I'm going to watch the beginning of Greta and see if she says anything.

[cajun miracle]

It appears that Greta is in her studio tonight and not in Aruba.  Her Greta LiveWire is in the studio:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/live.html?stream=1

Thanks Klaas. I really was looking forward to her bringing up Natalee. Darn!

[Anna]

It appears that Greta is in her studio tonight and not in Aruba.  Her Greta LiveWire is in the studio:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/live.html?stream=1

Thanks Klaas. I really was looking forward to her bringing up Natalee. Darn!

I waited all day for this!   

I'm telling ya, you can't believe anything they say at all.

What about her and Beth conspiring their media attack and all that!


Well, maybe she didn't have time to travel and get the material back to do a program tonight?   I want to SEE something actually happening.

[Poochy]

Seems at least that part of the beach was pretty busy that night...yet the beach area of the Marriott did not produce one witness that put Joran and Natalee there.  Hmm.

Funny the fishermen didn't see the MB'ers frollicking in their birthday suits 
Steve Croes saw 2 men and a girl who was screaming.
Joran said nobody was on the beach.

I thought Joran eventually said he saw a "black couple" maybe as he was leaving and thought maybe they would help Natalee.

I must have missed that lie pouring out of his pie hole.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Seems at least that part of the beach was pretty busy that night...yet the beach area of the Marriott did not produce one witness that put Joran and Natalee there.  Hmm.

Funny the fishermen didn't see the MB'ers frollicking in their birthday suits 
Steve Croes saw 2 men and a girl who was screaming.
Joran said nobody was on the beach.

I thought Joran eventually said he saw a "black couple" maybe as he was leaving and thought maybe they would help Natalee.

I think "black couple" was from the book, my memory may be wrong.  In the GVS interview, Joran suggests that the beach was a busy place -

VAN DER SLOOT: If you drive by right by the last Marriott Hotel so we took a left and you can drive right to the end of the road there and we stopped there, so you're basically still at the hotel and that's where — where we got out of the car and I told Deepak that "I'll call you later to pick me up" and he said "OK," and he left and we walked on the beach.

And, I mean there were people there. There were couples there on the beach as well. I mean we walked by other couples. It's not — that beach is — it's a very busy beach. There's a lot of people there even at nighttime.

VAN DER SLOOT: Well, we got at the beach. We walked up. I took off my shoes. We walked to the — to the ocean and that's where we sat down as well. That's where I left my shoes and then we started walking. And I asked her, you know, let's — we can walk toward your hotel because there were a lot of people there too. And she wanted to walk the other way, so towards the — starting to go towards the lighthouse.

And, so we started walking — walking in that direction, more towards the fisherman's hut and, yes, we were holding hands, talking and kissing, just having a good time.

VAN SUSTEREN: Other people walking on the beach?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, there was — the time that I started walking the other direction there was only one couple that I walked by because most of them were at the actual Marriott Hotel. At that (INAUDIBLE), there was only one couple that I actually walked by.

VAN SUSTEREN: When you left her that night, were there any people around who might have seen something? You make the plea for people to come forward. Did you see anybody in the immediate area?

VAN DER SLOOT: No, that's exactly what I said. I mean, there were couples there on the beach. I mean, you know, please, come forward. You know, talk to the police. There was a couple that walked by when we were there on the beach. I mean, it's not — it's not like it's a deserted beach. It's a crowded area where there's a lot of people. You know, just come forward and talk to the — you know, tell the police everything you know. It's just very important.

Lots of people.  I've always wondered why the lighthouse would be a landmark for someone walking on the beach near the hotel.  Can the lighthouse be seen from that beach area?  Why mention lighthouse at all?

Any of these folks come forward?

[klaasend]

Right now on Greta they are talking about Jett Travolta.  So Greta is definately still in her office tonight.  That doesn't mean that she couldn't be in Aruba tomorrow just not there today.

[Tamikosmom]

I am not sure but ... the way I comprehend ... there are legal issues why the Natalee's Freebirds could not expose the Persistence deception through the usual means of  documentation.  Maybe this same legality prevents the family from exposing the truth.

The Persistence undertaking was a private venture and ... the owner Louis Shaeffer owns the copywrite to the ROV images.  The legality of publishing Kyle's own words submitted under a confidentiality agreement to an internet forum ... words exposing the suspicious happenings that may have been the finale to the great Aruban coverup ... may be an issue.

In other words ... if the Persistence story is ever to be told ... it will be told by Louis Shaeffer from the perspective of John Silvetti.

IMO.

Maybe one of our Monkey Freebirds could expand.

Janet.   

Here's what's funny about that Janet.  NO ONE had  registered copyrights on ANY of the images Kyle shared with us - at least not by the time Kermit posted them here.

But the threat of civil litigation was just as real.  Freebirds would have had to spend big bucks to defend ourselves - while we would have prevailed in a court of law, due to the verbiage in our TOS - the defense of it would have been very costly.

So now there is an option of suing individually - but I'd get a kick out of what grounds any such suit might be brought forth.  When the few don't have to worry about putting the many in potential litigious jeopardy - it's then a no holds barred situation. 

I'd also get a kick out of any potential lawsuit once the filing attorney got ahold of our TOS. 

Jen

Hi Jen

If Kermit/Kyle is not implying in the following quote that Louis Shaeffer has the rights to the ROV images ... what is being implied.

Janet
______


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
« Reply #544 on: December 19, 2008, 06:52:12 PM »

PERHAPS KYLE VIOLATED THE COPYRIGHT HIMSELF

Kyle said: "She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing. The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S. I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship."
 
The next step:
I will soon propose a meeting with Beth and other family members, myself, Tim Trahan, Peter DeVries, and whomever else necessary to go over the ROV video, contents, and case status. I would like a couple people very familiar with the case documents also present to help connect dots during the meeting. I would prefer meeting towards the end of April or mid-May to allow adequate time for things to shake themselves out if is going to. If necessary, I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level. We met in mid-Feb about this already. The question becomes timing, who needs to be there, and whether or not it's covered by the press. I prefer not, but it may be useful. DeVries doesn't need to be there in my opinion but he's good for ratings and helps ABC be cooperative if needed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg592533;topicseen#msg592533

Quite the little producer Kyle is.  This was a staged production to him and he was handling this very well.

Blue Moon

When Kyle Kingman approached the Natalee's Freebirds ... I honestly believe it was with the honorable intentions of seeking assistance in how to go about exposing to the family/FBI ... not only the second set of ROV images but ... also his story encompassing the troubling chain of custody in regards to the the contents of the cage ... the contents of the cage that in all probability ... according to Kyle's own words ... could have held the remains of Natalee Holloway.

However ... somewhere along the way Kyle had a change of heart.  Maybe the ongoing professional connection to John Silvetti had something to do with it.  Maybe dollar signs had something to do with it when his attempts to make deals with major networks is considered.

Nevertheless ... it was too late to successfully backtrack from his intial intentions.  He had already revealed on the Natalee's Freebirds' forum everything regarding the apparent deception of the Persistence undertaking as well as the second set of ROV images.

Did Kyle Kingman honestly believe that a group of researchers who only objective for congregating on a private site was to expose the corrupt investigation that was preventing justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway would remain silent when ... the family was thisclose to possibly bringing their beloved home to rest on American soil.

IMO

Janet

[Blue Moon]

Right now on Greta they are talking about Jett Travolta.  So Greta is definately still in her office tonight.  That doesn't mean that she couldn't be in Aruba tomorrow just not there today.

It doesn't look like Greta's normal set.  Could she be filming from somewhere else?

[klaasend]

Right now on Greta they are talking about Jett Travolta.  So Greta is definately still in her office tonight.  That doesn't mean that she couldn't be in Aruba tomorrow just not there today.

It doesn't look like Greta's normal set.  Could she be filming from somewhere else?

Entirely possible

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

I never could figure that one out, to tell you the truth.

I personally researched the copyrights - and no one involved with the Persistence had registered any.

Then also there is the little gem of Shaefer having RESIGNED his position from the company - so he no longer "owned" anything anyway.

I think Kyle just didn't fully understand that.

But according to Kyle - Shaefer DID sell the rights to those images.  LOL - rights he didn't even own.

Thanks Jen.

Considering his position as owner of the Persistence ... maybe Shaefer paid the wages and ... therefore was entitled to the rights of everything discovered on that undertaking ... whether it was oil related or ... Natalee Holloway related.

Kyle claimed that Shaefer had the rights and ... Kyle claims that Shaefer sold the rights.  Yet ... a search does not reveal confirmation.

 

Good Night Jen.  Good Night Monkeys.  Good Night Zookeepers.

Janet

++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle : "She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing. The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S. I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship."

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

[Anna]

Greta usually covers Natalee the very last thing so I shall watch and hold out hope of at least a mention until her program ends.

[Blue Moon]

Janet,

It appears to me that in order to sell these ROV clips/film that it had to be built up so others would buy into it.  This is sensationalism at it's best.  It is one thing to put all this in a documentary but before doing that you have to have Beth buy into it.  How can you get her to buy into it unless you go to a group of people who you know Beth would trust? Enter the Freebirds.  He used them to build this up so she would accept what we are seeing in the cage and make sure she is not caught off guard by it when it airs.  Sure he wanted her to know ahead of time.  It would have been devastating to have her see this on t.v. and not know about it ahead of time.  It was being setup just like it was on Peter DV's broadcast of Beth seeing the film and watching her reaction before the world.  Bad taste in my opinion.  Maybe Kyle was used by someone higher up but the fact is Beth HAD to know about this ahead of time before a documentary could be sold to one/more tv stations. (JMO)

[Blue Moon]

No, Greta is live.  She has 2 on camera guests.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

It appears to me that in order to sell these ROV clips/film that it had to be built up so others would buy into it.  This is sensationalism at it's best.  It is one thing to put all this in a documentary but before doing that you have to have Beth buy into it.  How can you get her to buy into it unless you go to a group of people who you know Beth would trust? Enter the Freebirds.  He used them to build this up so she would accept what we are seeing in the cage and make sure she is not caught off guard by it when it airs.  Sure he wanted her to know ahead of time.  It would have been devastating to have her see this on t.v. and not know about it ahead of time.  It was being setup just like it was on Peter DV's broadcast of Beth seeing the film and watching her reaction before the world.  Bad taste in my opinion.  Maybe Kyle was used by someone higher up but the fact is Beth HAD to know about this ahead of time before a documentary could be sold to one/more tv stations. (JMO)

I am thinking ... I am thinking.

 

Thanks Blue Moon.

Maybe a Monkey Freebird will respond.

Janet