Natalee Case Discussion #790 1/3/09 - 1/6/09

[SS]

Police and the Prosecutor’s Office on Aruba are still conducting an investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Yet we are approaching the end of this lengthy investigation and are busy with the last two leads. Now we are still busy I would like to add this: if you have relevant information, no matter how small or uninteresting it may seem, please notify my Office or the Police here on Aruba.


Perhaps we should start to flood the ALE email with the details of all the things that we have uncovered over the past three and a half years.

[texasmom]

If what they found was a hermit crab, they would have told the boat people, especially since they all thought it was a skull.  No way would they have bagged up crabs for forensics...or if they did...they would have sent them to the FBI.


Police and the Prosecutor’s Office on Aruba are still conducting an investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Yet we are approaching the end of this lengthy investigation and are busy with the last two leads. Now we are still busy I would like to add this: if you have relevant information, no matter how small or uninteresting it may seem, please notify my Office or the Police here on Aruba.

How can Mos say this...ask for people to come forward...then like the pond witness and the old girlfriend...say that the statements can't be used because they came forward so late???
 


I would like the names and an itemized list of the 10 million...including the tourism fees for those transfered from tourism to justice to help "solve" the case.  How much of the budget was marketing...including internet posters????


Was there anything said, in the 24 ora talk about the cage not being the one Joran talked about??  Did anyone hear that??

Buckeye,
I'd like to see itemized expense list that adds up to the 10 million too.

I have not talked to Caps since my lunch break, but I would say that the "Joran" in regards to the cage could very well have just been a mistake.  He was very kind to type some of what he was hearing in a the very short window of time that I had.  I hope my explanation will at least be considered.  Hopefully we will have a full transcript soon enough.  I requested the information, so I would hate to discourage someone who provided it from ever doing it again.  I just copied and pasted to get it here quickly.  It could have even been my mistake.  I will go back and check on that and post if I find that to be the case.   

Texasmom - the press release was posted a couple pages back, in English, from Gretawire

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4344.msg614811#msg614811

Thanks Klaas.  I saw that and I think I read all of it.  I thought it might not be the full transcript because someone mentioned that Mos said Greta was writing a book; and the "King of Aruba" comment.  I'll go back and read again.  

[truthseeker2]

Every time Mos speaks it's like they are killing Natalee all over again. The insensitivity and self consciousness of this little POS is like an assault.

I mean there aren't many degrees of separation from Joran to Paulus to Jan and to Hans are there? The sickest group of people ever assembled...

Inbred.

You said it, Frank.  I read the English version of that statement and was completely amazed at the way he rationalized some of the decisions not the investigate some of the leads.  I don't know how any one could view him as a legitimate Prosecutor

[Blue Moon]

I sure hope John Q. Kelly has something up his sleeves right about now.  These POS people in Aruba (Mos for one) is make a laughing stock of the United States and they are using Natalee to do it.  Like Robots always said - I HATE THEM ALL.

[RoxiBalboa]

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/
Aruba Prosecutor HANS MOSS: Sitting on his proverbial _______
by Greta Van Susteren


I just finished reading Aruba prosecutor’s 5 page press release below…and this is what stands out: he has initiated ZERO! I had no idea that they were sitting around waiting for everyone else to solve the case for them!

According to the 5 pages, he essentially sits in his office waiting for everyone to bring things to him….whether it be the Holloway family diggging up leads, looking for witnesses…Dutch TV Peter DeVries….Tim Miller and Equsearch…the Ship the Persistence or ON THE RECORD at 10pm…..

according to Moss, he just sits there!  Why isn’t he initiating any part of this investigation?

What affirmative investigation has he done? Would it not be nice if he showed some - just some - initiative? rather than waiting for everyone else? yes, sitting on one’s proverbial ….(you fill in the blank)

At least the rest of us are trying…

[klaasend]

Texasmom - good point.  That is the official press release but Mos may have said more in the press conference.

[Tamikosmom]

When arriving back in the States ... if Kyle Kingman had gone directly to the FBI/family with his concerns/suspicions regarding the Persistence undertaking ... with the second set of ROV images ... rather than sharing it all on a private forum .... rather than attempting to make deals with major networks ... maybe ... just maybe ... Natalee Holloway's remains could currently be resting on American soil and ... the family could possibly have had had a measure of closure this past Christmas ... the fourth Christmas of not knowing.

Janet

______


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric

Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: Schafer is sue crazy.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

Kyle: I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Klye: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

kyle: Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder.

Kyle: The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off

Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.  Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Kyle: THis is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand

Kyle: I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

Klye:  I did not give the information to the FBI and I'm unaware of anyone relaying the possibility to them.

Klye: I havn't spoken to Beth and don't plan to personally.


+++++++++


THE ROV IMAGES

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618
 
 
Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »

Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621


+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - OCEANEXPLORATION

JANUARY 26, 2008

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457;topicseen#msg332457
 

MARCH 19, 2008

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857;topicseen#msg366857

 
PRIVATE EYE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

[Blonde]

http://tinyurl.com/8o59mc

"Costs research Holloway case more than 10 million dollars'

ORANGE CITY -- The investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway is one of the most expensive criminal investigations of life in the world ever made. This is the main Aruban prosecutor Hans Mos said Tuesday at a press conference in Aruba.
"Keep a blow to the arm, but I estimate that the investigation more than 10 million dollars (around 7.5 million euros) took," said Moss.
"I dare the United States to-day with an equally expensive investigation into a life offense for the day to come. This took hands with money. Netherlands sent investigators who had to stay, and also F16 aircraft. "

In the pressconference Mos a.o. explains why the court didn't agree with the arrest of Joran after the DeVries/VdEems-tapes.
He gives a month by month insight in the investigation after the DV/VdE tapes. Amongst which investigations into Daury (he is now in a US prison for drug-dealings), into the beachtelephone. Joran was heared again and some 20 other witnesses into Jorans shoe, Daury, and so on.
The Pond-witness was heared, the pond was not investigated by the OM but later by the Persistance crew.
And a lot more stuff.

The latest investigation into what Croes has said is not an OM investigation but from the Procureur Generaal.

That's what I've picked up.

Persistence?What pond?

THE pond, LOL.

The pond that caps first said would be moko, then it was montanja.............then out of thin air comes a witness, and now all of a sudden it's the Monserrat pond.

THE pond that was drained/not drained........searched/not searched, LOL.

The pond was never drained - it dried up on its own

The pond was never searched by ALE - that was done while John Silvetti was back in Aruba for one of his many trips.  The one where he met with caps, at his home.

Jen are we talking about this dried up pond?

[Keepthefaith]

What someone should have done is hold up all the pictures of the cage contents at the press conference,with the pictures of Mos and Richardson on the Persistence and said."What about this MR. MOS".He would have Sh_t himself...

[2NJSons_Mom]

[Buckeye]

Thank texasmom.

I hope the actual conference did mention Joran and the trap....but it's easy to miss things or miss hear thing when trying to transcribe.  I've never understood how our transcribers can get stuff posted so well....

[texasmom]

Private Eye, if you are still here....PLEASE tell us your thoughts!

[texasmom]

Thank texasmom.

I hope the actual conference did mention Joran and the trap....but it's easy to miss things or miss hear thing when trying to transcribe.  I've never understood how our transcribers can get stuff posted so well....

I agree Buckeye.  When I have tried to transcribe, there are always parts I usually have to rewind and listen again several times to get it right.

[Tamikosmom]

Police and the Prosecutor’s Office on Aruba are still conducting an investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Yet we are approaching the end of this lengthy investigation and are busy with the last two leads. Now we are still busy I would like to add this: if you have relevant information, no matter how small or uninteresting it may seem, please notify my Office or the Police here on Aruba.


Perhaps we should start to flood the ALE email with the details of all the things that we have uncovered over the past three and a half years.

 

Why?  It will only get filed in that bottomless evidence drawer ... never to be seen again.

I can only imagine that the bottomless evidence drawer is where where Mickey John's official statement is in regards to what Deepak revealed to him while they were detained together in June, 2005.

Janet

++++++


Former Aruba Suspect Alleges Plot!
Wednesday, June 29, 2005

MICKEY JOHN, FORMER SUSPECT: ... He (Deepak) said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy's father, they sit and made up the story.

VAN SUSTEREN: The father, too?

JOHN: All of them. They made up...

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he specifically say — Deepak specifically say to you the father was part of that?

JOHN: Deepak told me that he and the family sit down and they made up the story.

VAN SUSTEREN: So family and not father?

JOHN: Well, I don't know who the family consists of. But I know the father was involved, according to him.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161044,00.html

[Tamikosmom]

Jen's words say it all.

Janet

+++++++++

jen3560
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #788 12/31/08 -
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2008, 04:36:13 PM 

KeeptheFaith and Janet,

After we discovered this information had been withheld from US authorities, we contacted legal counsel, and were advised to keep our distance from Persistence crew members and benefactors - that is when and why Kyle was banned.

That occurred the end of September.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4328.msg605250#msg605250


klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
 
At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator
Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

BUMPED

[bastibro]

Press Release from Mos - may have already been posted:

Press Anouncement

Ladies and gentlemen!

The Public Prosecutors Office Aruba and the Aruban Police Force would like to give you an updated summary about the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Why? Three reasons

First of all there is the fact that a few months ago, based on the results of the investigation, the estimate was that the investigation could be ended by the end of 2008. More specifically I am referring to the re-opened investigation into the suspect in this case, Joran van der Sloot, against whom the criminal investigation was restarted after the broadcast of a Peter R. de Vries investigation last February. Because that program caused a new stream of information, this information first has to be examined which will take at least another few months.

Secondly, about six weeks ago an interview with Joran van der Sloot was broadcasted on an American cable news Channel. In this interview Joran tells a completely new version of the alleged facts that occurred concerning the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Before showing the interview and in the days after the show the Aruban Prosecutors Office and the Aruban Police were alleged to be corrupt and unwilling to investigate possible leads in this case. We find it fit to address those allegations today.

The third reason is that my Office and the Police Department would like to urge all people that have information about things that have occurred on May 30th 2005 or about persons that are or might be involved in this case, whatever that information may be, to hand that information over to the Police or to the Public Prosecutors Office.

For a good understanding of the facts I would like to take you back to December 18th 2007. It was on that day that the three suspects in this case got official notice from my Office that the criminal investigation into their possible involvement in this case was ended. This did not mean that the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway also ended. On the contrary. That investigation never stopped. If new information or evidence would come up, the criminal investigation against any suspect in this case could be re-opened. This is possible as long as the statute of limitations does not prohibit this.

No one could imagine at that time that within a month from that decision this Office was confronted with the information that Dutch crime investigator Peter R de Vries had made secret camera shots of Joran van der Sloot talking about the case against a civilian under cover. After my Office got the tapes and before the actual broadcast of the Peter R. de Vries program, on our request the criminal investigation against Joran was re-opened by the investigating judge.

At the same time the investigation was fully operational again and had as a main goal to find as much corroborating evidence as possible of what Joran van der Sloot had told the under cover. The judge was asked to approve the third consecutive custody of Joran van der Sloot. The investigating judge against whose decision this Office lodged an appeal at the Common Court of Appeal in Curacao denied this approval. The Court of Appeal upheld the investigating judges’ decision, thus disabling Police to re-arrest Joran van der Sloot.

It is proper to take another look at the Court of Appeals’ decision. The Court of Appeal took into account the footage that was handed over by Peter de Vries as well as all the old investigative results of over nearly 3 years of investigation. Weighing whether there was enough new serious material, evidence (necessary to be able to put one into custody) the Court decided that the new elements that Joran had told the under cover were not corroborated by “objective facts”. On top of that the Court considered the fact that the suspect already had argued that there are objective facts that contradict the new elements that were told by him to the under cover. The fact that Joran has supplied the Police with a motive for his lying behavior and the fact that he has admitted that he often is not telling the truth, makes, according to the Court of Appeal, that the self incriminating new statements of Joran are devaluated.

In short: there is no corroborating evidence for the new self incriminating statements of Joran and the value of these statements is undermined by his own statement about his credibility.

What does the Court’s decision imply when we take a closer look?
1.    After an extensive and intensive investigation, the contents of the Police file combined with the new statements of Joran, does not hold enough evidence necessary to pass the threshold for a third consecutive term of pretrial custody.
2.    Logical conclusion from the above mentioned must be, that the evidence that we do have in the extensive files, is not enough to convict this suspect.

For that reason this Office has made the gathering of these “objective facts” that can serve as evidence against the main suspect it’s primary goal for the investigation from that point on.

What the Police and this Office have done:

•    Already on January 22nd 2008, the day after Peter de Vries had shown the tapes to the Public Prosecutor and the Police, the investigation into the person called “Daury” was started. Finally a person called Daury R. was identified and it turned out that he probably was involved in drug trafficking activities (as had been told by Joran). Because of that and following his own TV-appearance on 20-20, he was arrested in the USA on the suspicion of international drug trafficking. He is currently detained in the USA.

In fact, in the confession tapes of Peter R de Vries Urine did say Daury Davens, not Rodriquez.

[memphis]

It is the ocean Johan.I understand!I would expect sea life to be there.So from what i understand you believe the Rotterdam dive versus Kyle's own words?

EXACTLY!!!

Kyle Kingman's supporters do not get it.

Either Kyle's own words reveal the truth regarding the troubling happenings encompassing the Persistence undertaking or ... Kyle is the grandfather of all liars.
Which is it?

Janet

This is an excellent point, Tamikosmom.
Either he was scamming and lying to the Freebirds or he's lying now.
Why recover so carefully and methodically a bunch of sea urchins and rocks? What are the chances that ANY material would be in a crap trap to test?

[texasmom]

   I shouldn't have asked Private Eye to talk to us, I think he left.  Sorry....

[2NJSons_Mom]

Remembering Aruba's habit of making announcements or releasing suspects on our holidays made me realize that today is celebrated by some as the feast of the Epiphany or Little Christmas.   

[Tamikosmom]

   I shouldn't have asked Private Eye to talk to us, I think he left.  Sorry....

texasmom ... I may have scared him off when I said Hi and ... gave him one of my big hug.  I just might have squeezed him too hard but ... I was sooo excited to see him.

 

You would think I would have learned.  The words of my 5 year old grandson ... "Mama, can you just give me two little hugs instead of a big one."

Janet