Natalee Case Discussion #790 1/3/09 - 1/6/09

[texasmom]

We're not giving up Natalee!  We're going to keep the pressure on until they give you back to your family!

[sharon]

And they haven't rushed back to check the 100-200 add'l targets that Kyle posted about here in March, '08. 

^5

Thank you.

If you were Dave or Beth -- and REALLY thought Natalee might still be in one of those 100+ targets -- what would you have done over the past 9 months??

Stay silent?    Stop trying to raise funds to find your daughter?   

Beth and Dave would probably be learning to scuba dive themselves is they REALLY thought that Natalee might be in one of the other 'viable' targets (iirc -- these targets were deemed 'viable' only after ROV dives).

How do we know that no one from Aruba hasn't already 'checked out' the other locations. We NEVER got a straight answer as to where that information was retained. FIrst we were told 'it was safe'...then we were told 'all documentation NH related stripped from the Persistence'. Where is it??

Logic tells me that Beth and Dave do not believe that Natalee is in any of the other 'targets'.

Why not????


AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES!!!Justice for Natalee Holloway

[sharon]

Kermit, I would bet that the postoffices are still active.  The Dutch marines stationed on Aruba and on the ships like the Pantera are active in the drug trade.  The marines who have been caught and shipped back to Netherlands were most likely challenging the status quo.  This is all in the media reports from the past few years.  It's their dirty little (not so) secret.

Good to see you AZLady!!!!

I've been missing you -- was hoping you'd post your 'definitions' again.      Certainly could have used them yesterday 

[sharon]

It and everybody smell to me right now, too.

How did all these people become so intertwined?

No, we don't know for sure that Natalee was indeed in that trap -- but there sure as been a hell of a lot attention by several people for a cage containing nothing but "plastic".

Ain't that the truth!

And they haven't rushed back to check the 100-200 add'l targets that Kyle posted about here in March, '08. 

NO, not a peep. (I think the family knows it is futile as well )

And Schaeffer was trying to sell ROV footage to the networks so he could recoup the cost of this trip. 

Schaeffer's troubles started before the search, and I've thought that he used the search to save himself more than Natalee.   I could be wrong but that is what I have been thinking for some time.  I guess it's due to my work experience and being privy to what owners do to keep things 'afloat', especially a privately owned business. 

Yes. IMO.

Now........the question I still can't find the answer to.......how did this business deal get brokered?

I think that you, me and klaas are seeing this the same way 

[Blonde]

Kermit!!!I'm going crazy with the Mansur Family....

The Cuntrera-Caruana clan had links with another Aruban bank: the Interbank.
<snip>
An amount of money is deposited cash at a bank and the bank lends the money back: now there is a clean and legitimate source of earnings. This is how you launder money basically.

The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family.

company-ownership or real estate property could well be hidden through the construction of Aruban off-shore limited liability companies offering strong secrecy provisions.
<snip>
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba

Paulus “ has worked as an attorney for the Aruban judicial system for court prosecutors. PAULUS then was given a different assignment: the government wanted him to only set up contracts.
http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/extra/pvds.htm


Eric Mansure’s sister-in-law is Jan van der Straaten’s secretary. (p.153 Dave Holloway).
Paulus Van Der Sloot was in the Prosecutors office/ substitute judge, Van Der Straaten is Police Superintendent/Police Commissioner working under Paulus.

Thanx Kermit!How could they not know?

Theres a whole lot more, but I would rather wait to divulge that.

I have all the time in the world 

I just took the time to read the article on the Mansur family (see Kermits link above).  Thought it was interestint also that Eric Mansur's sister-in-law was Jan Van der Straaten's secretary also.

When Kermit says the Interbank is owned by the Mansur family does this include Jossy also.  I know he has other brothers who have lots of problems with convictions and such in the past but is Jossy considered a part owner of the Interbank?

Aruban Connections
Five members of the Aruban Mansur Family, viz. Mr. Elias F. Mansur, Mrs. Damia M. de Cuba-Mansur, Mr. Luis E. Mansur, Mr. Miguel J. Mansur and Mrs. Sarah E. Arends-Mansur, have raised objections against general references in the following chapter to the Mansurs or the Mansur family. In their opinion these references may be understood as including them and thereby implicating them in alleged wrongdoing they have never committed.
The author is of the opinion that such references to a large family will not be misunderstood as including each and every member of the family. However, in case this opinion should prove incorrect, the author points out that he regrets such misunderstanding and that he did not intend said references to implicate all members of the family.

The Cuntrera-Caruana clan had links with another Aruban bank: the Interbank. The bank granted a credit to the Cuntrera company "Investeringen Tweehonderd en Tien" for 1.8 million Aruban guilders (approximately one million dollars). Why the Cuntreras who own several investment companies in Venezuela needed the loan is unknown.

One could speculate, however, this was a 'loan-back' operation to launder money. An amount of money is deposited cash at a bank and the bank lends the money back: now there is a clean and legitimate source of earnings. But there is no proof, no one ever looked really into the relations of the bank with the Sicilian mafiosi. The letter of credit was issued before the mafia connections of the clan became officially known on the island. This did not stop the bank from keeping the Cuntreras as clients. During Operation Wiseguy the undercover DEA agents were asked to wire money for a shipment of hashish on the account of Alfonso Cuntrera at the Interbank.

The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family. The Mansurs made their fortune as cigarette manufacturers and in the import-export business. With a licence of Philip Morris, they are the major suppliers of Marlboros in the Caribbean basin. The Mansurs sponsor the best baseball team – Aruba's national sport – the Marlboro Red Tigers as well as the AVP party of Prime Minister Henny Eman. They own the biggest hotel and time-sharing complex, La Cabana, with its inevitable casino. And they have a couple of import-export businesses in the Free Trade Zone.

Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". "When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government,"says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, "their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government. And you may guess how they make that kind of money”."Jossy Mansur is not impressed claiming that accusing people of drug trafficking and money laundering "has become a political tool to discredit them”." (75) Jossy Mansur acts as the family's mouthpiece, Ruben and the elder Alex are the patriarchs, and Elias 'Don' Mansur is the family's whizz-kid. Elias graduated at Notre Dame University, and was Minister of Economic Affairs in Eman's first cabinet. As representative for the Free Trade Zone entrepreneurs in a mixed Dutch-Aruban commission he has to recommend measures to tighten regulations in the FTZ to prevent money laundering and contraband, together with Dutch government officials. (76)

More and more the name Mansur turns up in money laundering cases. Alex and Eric Mansur were indicted in Puerto Rico in August 1994. (77) President Clinton specifically mentioned the Mansur's when he put Aruba on the list of Major Illicit Drug-transit Countries in December 1996. Although no member of the family was actually indicted in the La Costa case, the name Mansur is frequently is found in the files which were seized at Habibe's home on Aruba.
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba

[Buckeye]

Awhile back, someone had commented that Jossy never showed the Dompig recording.  Here is a link to the youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymSWgZm6ivo

[KYcat]

  Blonde I can't believe you posted the "Aruban Connections" snip from that article at the same time I was reading it.  I have been going back and reading some of OE's earlier posts and came across this article.  Read it last night and have been going back over it this morning.  Very long, but very interesting

Just sayin' Great Minds Think Alike   

Hope you are feeling better.  Don't you hate being sick around the holidays.  Not fair.

[klaasend]

O/T ScaredMonkeys now on Facebook  

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Scared-Monkeys/43226152429

[Nut44x4]

   cool

[klaasend]

http://www.awe24.com/

Someone took a body from a crypt?   

[texasmom]

http://www.awe24.com/

Someone took a body from a crypt?   

Could that be the one I posted about that the police took from the funeral to do another autopsy on?

[Blue Moon]

http://www.awe24.com/

Someone took a body from a crypt?   

Wonder where that ideal came from?

[klaasend]

Texasmom - I'm not sure if it's the same one

[klaasend]

Hotshot just emailed this to me from Jossy.  Hotshot is having problems logging in, I have no idea why as she is not banned. 

From Jossy:

No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.
Take care
 
Jossy

[texasmom]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4340.msg610408#msg610408

This is what I posted a few days ago about the lady whose body was taken from the funeral.  (Or that's what I think it says anyway)

Article in tomorrow's Awe Mainta.  I'm hoping Cageman or Sandy Leiva (or anyone who can) will tell us more about what it says.  My interpretation is that the 55 year old woman's body was taken back for further review (another autopsy?) by law enforcement from her funeral. 

http://awemainta.com/home/

1/3/2009 Awe Mainta

Papiamentu translation:

entrante today free!!!

curpa during burial confisca everybody owing to stay babuca yesterday tardi, after cu had ceremonia of burial, as the.o. respons in catholic santa ana at north, for after compaña the difunto for his ultimo lugar of rest, for fiscal of ministerio publico owing to let confisca the cadaver.

Papiamentu translation:

first of close kelder yesterday tardi fiscal owing to confisca cadaver of fayecida

everybody owing to stay babuca yesterday tardi, after cu had ceremonia of burial, as the.o. respons in catholic santa ana at north, for after compaña the difunto for his ultimo lugar of rest, for fiscal of ministerio publico owing to let confisca the cadaver. the presentenan not owing to like the form of proceder here mucho y even owing to demanda of wanted see documento pakico ministerio publico wanted confisca cadaver of the madam, beatrix stella rua-correa of 55 year, that owing to fayece day 30 of december ultimo. the presentenan even owing to deal of stroba police of haci his trabao y after of menasa they cu will actua cu hand duro, t’e polisnan self have to owing to carga the box bek p’e car of funeraria. awemainta buscando informacion of vocero of ministerio publico, the unique informacion cu we can owing to achieve is, cu have one investigacion is tumando lugar. y for determina cause exact of dead of the fayecida, sra. beatrix stella rua-correa, have to owing to let confisca the cadaver for after haci one autopsia of acuerdo cu ley.pero for of hendenan cu conoce the fayecida, they're achieve the caso here very odd, because sra. beatrix stella rua-correa have assure more of 7 year bad y at cama. pesey all denuncia cu can have haci for her.o. bisiñanan is completamente false. question is stay, cu after of haci the autopsia, for cual not have day still, will have another ceremonia the.o. respons for bury the difunto?

[texasmom]

Hotshot just emailed this to me from Jossy.  Hotshot is having problems logging in, I have no idea why as she is not banned. 

From Jossy:

No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.
Take care
 
Jossy

Thanks Klaas and Hotshot.

[Blue Moon]

Hotshot just emailed this to me from Jossy.  Hotshot is having problems logging in, I have no idea why as she is not banned. 

From Jossy:

No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.
Take care
 
Jossy

Still leaves me with more questions than answers.  Not a mention at all of the contents of the cage and what was removed according to the pictures we witnessed.  Not much was added by this statement.  His son was on board the whole time but not a mention or denial of what went on with that cage.

[Blue Moon]

I do thank Hotsot and Jossy for trying to make a statement concerning these pictures taken from the ROV.

[texasmom]

Hotshot just emailed this to me from Jossy.  Hotshot is having problems logging in, I have no idea why as she is not banned. 

From Jossy:

No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.
Take care
 
Jossy

Why was he on the ship everyday is my first question?

Still leaves me with more questions than answers.  Not a mention at all of the contents of the cage and what was removed according to the pictures we witnessed.  Not much was added by this statement.  His son was on board the whole time but not a mention or denial of what went on with that cage.

[texasmom]

Hotshot just emailed this to me from Jossy.  Hotshot is having problems logging in, I have no idea why as she is not banned. 

From Jossy:

No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.
Take care
 
Jossy

Still leaves me with more questions than answers.  Not a mention at all of the contents of the cage and what was removed according to the pictures we witnessed.  Not much was added by this statement.  His son was on board the whole time but not a mention or denial of what went on with that cage.

Sorry Blue Moon, posted that last one in the middle of yours I think!   

Why was he on the ship everyday is my first question?