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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #790 1/3/09 - 1/6/09  (Read 243695 times)
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #520 on: January 05, 2009, 05:55:46 PM »


Just calm down.  Take a very deep breath.  Now direct your focus off of your Robert visualization and ... back on the Natalee Holloway case.

 

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #521 on: January 05, 2009, 05:58:55 PM »

O.K. women, time to settle down.

And there were a couple of men tooting their horns....
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Anna
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« Reply #522 on: January 05, 2009, 05:59:07 PM »

Peter R deVries is a very handsome man.

He's not half as handsome as I am... 


Ah, so you say but how are we to know!

 

 


You probably won't believe me if I tell you I look like this guy (seeing Tamikosmom talk about Cindy Crawford)

http://tinyurl.com/7phb4g

So let's forget it.... 

Richard Gere is only a 5 but Peter R is a 10!

 
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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Keepthefaith
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« Reply #523 on: January 05, 2009, 06:00:51 PM »

STRATEGIC TASK FORCE

Mr. Olindo Koolman (Senior Advisor)
Mr. Jaap Beaujon (Advisor)
Mr. Serge Mansur (ATIA)
Mr. Greg Peterson (ATIA)
Mr. Jorge Pesquera (AHATA)
Mr. Jeff Lesker (AHATA)
Mr. Alfonso Riveroll (AHATA)
Ms. Myrna Jansen (ATA)
Mr. Rob Smith (Aruba Hospitality & Security Foundation)
Mr. Bill Carson (Banking Sector/AHATA)
Mr. Edwin Roos (Chamber of Commerce)
Mr. Ruben Trappenberg (Aruba Government)
Mr. Eric Brete (Aruba Government)

This is SUCH an interesting list of people.

The Mansur family!

Serge Mansur/Strategic task force
Eduardo Mansur/Search and Rescue
Jossy Mansur/Diario

Is it just me or is there a problem with this?Throw a Banana at me monkey's if i'm crazy....

Well the name does keep cropping up doesn't it.


I need a refresher on the Aruban law (?) about any information that is publicly disclosed becomes ineligible for use in trial....

err.... or something like that.

I keep thinking about that when I think of Jossy. 

Can anyone go back over that for me?

TIA!!


Great questions!Anyone know?
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« Reply #524 on: January 05, 2009, 06:00:52 PM »

Will somebody give me some cliff notes or something!!  I have only recently been able to get back to the cage.  Been working like a crazy person for a year.  I was in the Caylee thread and someone mentioned something about Nat.  And what about the Persistance?  TIA
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« Reply #525 on: January 05, 2009, 06:02:06 PM »

Max was lost on Aruba on 5-12-2004 no investigation ! nothing !

Max Devries would have been 18 years old now



Max and his Dad George









Just over one year later Natalee goes missing.  What was going on with the month of May in Aruba?  SoulBeach?  Or something else?

http://www.aruba.com/calendar/view_entry.php?id=329&date=20040530

SOUL BEACH MUSIC FESTIVAL 2004
Description: SOUL BEACH MUSIC FESTIVAL 2004
Date: Sunday, May 30, 2004 
Repeat Type: Wednesday, May 26, 2004  -  Monday, May 31, 2004 (every Day



...follow the music.....


Found a post about a missing girl in a town called Dordrecht. Turned out she had been taken after a concert by a band called http://www.dicemen.net/

Coincidentally, posts by a Shango seem to refer to this band by name:

http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html

Unfortunately most search results are in Dutch!

Posted by: COLUMBO | Saturday, December 10, 2005 at 05:14 PM

Thank You Poochy...I for One find this Very Interesting! 
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
JuJu
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« Reply #526 on: January 05, 2009, 06:03:01 PM »

O.K. women, time to settle down.

And there were a couple of men tooting their horns....

I don't wnat a man that is tooting his own horn 
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Regrets, I've had a few......
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WWW
« Reply #527 on: January 05, 2009, 06:03:17 PM »


Just calm down.  Take a very deep breath.  Now direct your focus off of your Robert visualization and ... back on the Natalee Holloway case.

 

Janet


ROFL . . take that Robert
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #528 on: January 05, 2009, 06:05:45 PM »

STRATEGIC TASK FORCE

Mr. Olindo Koolman (Senior Advisor)
Mr. Jaap Beaujon (Advisor)
Mr. Serge Mansur (ATIA)
Mr. Greg Peterson (ATIA)
Mr. Jorge Pesquera (AHATA)
Mr. Jeff Lesker (AHATA)
Mr. Alfonso Riveroll (AHATA)
Ms. Myrna Jansen (ATA)
Mr. Rob Smith (Aruba Hospitality & Security Foundation)
Mr. Bill Carson (Banking Sector/AHATA)
Mr. Edwin Roos (Chamber of Commerce)
Mr. Ruben Trappenberg (Aruba Government)
Mr. Eric Brete (Aruba Government)

This is SUCH an interesting list of people.

The Mansur family!

Serge Mansur/Strategic task force
Eduardo Mansur/Search and Rescue
Jossy Mansur/Diario

Is it just me or is there a problem with this?Throw a Banana at me monkey's if i'm crazy....

Well the name does keep cropping up doesn't it.


I need a refresher on the Aruban law (?) about any information that is publicly disclosed becomes ineligible for use in trial....

err.... or something like that.

I keep thinking about that when I think of Jossy. 

Can anyone go back over that for me?

TIA!!


That is one of the great mysteries of Aruban/Dutch law.  Something related to privacy.

Over the years, I've wondered...no jury, just a "professional" prosecutor and judge, so why would publicity even matter?

Why would public disclosure of facts have any standing in the case?

I also recall that the right to lie, or be less than truthful also extends to lawyers and what they may choose to reveal about the case to the public or media.  

It's a system hidden behind closed doors.  Any accountability?  Any review?

jmho
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« Reply #529 on: January 05, 2009, 06:06:52 PM »

Peter R deVries is a very handsome man.

He's not half as handsome as I am... 


Ah, so you say but how are we to know!

 

 


You probably won't believe me if I tell you I look like this guy (seeing Tamikosmom talk about Cindy Crawford)

http://tinyurl.com/7phb4g

So let's forget it.... 

Richard Gere is only a 5 but Peter R is a 10!

 

I forgot to say: RG in his best years!

OK Goodnight you all. I'm off to bed now. It's going to be a cold night over here in the NL's: -15˚ C to -20˚ C [= F 5˚ to -4˚ ? ]
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wreck
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« Reply #530 on: January 05, 2009, 06:09:46 PM »

I'm cautiously optimistic. Red said "the stars are aligning", Steve Holloway's "message", and the mere fact Beth is in Aruba make me hopeful that something is pre-negotiated here. I do not think Beth would ever go to Aruba again without a "guarantee".
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AZSunny
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« Reply #531 on: January 05, 2009, 06:18:23 PM »

Peter R deVries is a very handsome man.

He's not half as handsome as I am... 


Ah, so you say but how are we to know!

 

 


You probably won't believe me if I tell you I look like this guy (seeing Tamikosmom talk about Cindy Crawford)

http://tinyurl.com/7phb4g

So let's forget it.... 

Richard Gere is only a 5 but Peter R is a 10!

 

I will take either one Anna.   
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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #532 on: January 05, 2009, 06:20:40 PM »

Will somebody give me some cliff notes or something!!  I have only recently been able to get back to the cage.  Been working like a crazy person for a year.  I was in the Caylee thread and someone mentioned something about Nat.  And what about the Persistance?  TIA

You can look here for info on the Persistence...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0
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R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck. - Magnolia
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« Reply #533 on: January 05, 2009, 06:20:53 PM »

I'm cautiously optimistic. Red said "the stars are aligning", Steve Holloway's "message", and the mere fact Beth is in Aruba make me hopeful that something is pre-negotiated here. I do not think Beth would ever go to Aruba again without a "guarantee".

Me too wreck.  Please please let this be it.  Justice for Natalee and to bring her home.

I know we've been through this so many times, and the last time I promised myself that I would never get too hopeful, but I can't help it.  For some reason this time feels different.
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memphis
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« Reply #534 on: January 05, 2009, 06:23:05 PM »

I'm cautiously optimistic. Red said "the stars are aligning", Steve Holloway's "message", and the mere fact Beth is in Aruba make me hopeful that something is pre-negotiated here. I do not think Beth would ever go to Aruba again without a "guarantee".

Me too wreck.  Please please let this be it.  Justice for Natalee and to bring her home.

I know we've been through this so many times, and the last time I promised myself that I would never get too hopeful, but I can't help it.  For some reason this time feels different.

I with ya - cautiously, though.
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Poochy
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« Reply #535 on: January 05, 2009, 06:27:31 PM »

Max was lost on Aruba on 5-12-2004 no investigation ! nothing !

Max Devries would have been 18 years old now



Max and his Dad George









Just over one year later Natalee goes missing.  What was going on with the month of May in Aruba?  SoulBeach?  Or something else?

http://www.aruba.com/calendar/view_entry.php?id=329&date=20040530

SOUL BEACH MUSIC FESTIVAL 2004
Description: SOUL BEACH MUSIC FESTIVAL 2004
Date: Sunday, May 30, 2004 
Repeat Type: Wednesday, May 26, 2004  -  Monday, May 31, 2004 (every Day



...follow the music.....


Found a post about a missing girl in a town called Dordrecht. Turned out she had been taken after a concert by a band called http://www.dicemen.net/

Coincidentally, posts by a Shango seem to refer to this band by name:

http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html

Unfortunately most search results are in Dutch!

Posted by: COLUMBO | Saturday, December 10, 2005 at 05:14 PM

Thank You Poochy...I for One find this Very Interesting! 

 

I'm sure you read all about Max on his website. What always intrigued me was the guy who befriended him - and caused him to go missing. And this man introduced another guy as his 'adopted son', and both were the airport with minimal amount of luggage - not the amount one would take if staying for a week at the H.I. When I googled that guy's name I found an interesting 'accident' in the USA where a motorcyclist got sandwiched between two trucks, and a guy w/the same exact name as the last person seeing Max was driving one of them.

makes one wonder if they trade people for $ to pay off their gambling debts...

Dicemen  --what an interesting name for a band... they must like to gamble I guess.... they must like Aruba because not many islands have casinos/gambling. Wonder if they were in Aruba in 2005 for the SBMF.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #536 on: January 05, 2009, 06:28:57 PM »

Will somebody give me some cliff notes or something!!  I have only recently been able to get back to the cage.  Been working like a crazy person for a year.  I was in the Caylee thread and someone mentioned something about Nat.  And what about the Persistance?   TIA

THE DECEPTION OF THE PERSISTENCE UNDERTAKING

The undertaking of the Persistence appears to have been a self-serving endeavor on the part of John Silvetti to locate Natalee Holloway's remains for the sole purpose of assisting to provide a FINALE TO THE ARUBAN COVERUP.
 
Kyle Kingman, was on board the Persistence in an official capacity for the entire search effort.  Following the retrieval of the contents of the cage/trap ... this young man had concerns.

Along with ROV images of the cage/trap that had not been turned over to the ALE and ... his heartfelt concerns ... Kyle returned to the United States with the intention of turning the ROV images of the cage/trap over to the FBI and/or the family of Natalee Holloway as well as sharing his concerns.  Unfortunately ... Kyle had a change of heart and began negotiating with major networks for the rights to the ROV images.

When Kyle's analysis of the ROV images is considered ... it appeared that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been inside the trap/cage.  However ... considering the ALE retrieved the contents and ... the crew of the Persistence were not participants to the recovery process ... were not participants to the chain of command ... there is no conclusive proof.

The FBI as well as Beth Holloway have recently been in receipt of the ROV images.  However ... NOBODY involved in the Persistence search effort were involved in this initiative.

If Natalee Holloway's remains were in that cage/trap ... it must be exposed.  Justice for an eighteen year old American and ... closure for her family demands it.

'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005


JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/

Janet

++++++++++
 
 
KYLE KINGMAN POSTS - NATALEE'S FREEBIRDS' FORUM

Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric

Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: Schafer is sue crazy.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

Kyle: I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further.

Klye: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

kyle: Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder
 
 
KYLE KINGMAN'S POST - THE SCARED MONKEYS' FORUM

oceanexploration: "We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.    The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE."
 
 
BROTHER OF BETH HOLLOWAY'S POST - THE SCARED MONKEYS' FORUM

Private Eye: "If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed."
 
 
THE ROV IMAGES

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618
 
 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »

Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621
 
++++++++++
 
Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
Greater New York City Area


Current
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
 
Past
Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
 
Education
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick
 
Industry
Oil & Energy
 
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464
 
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #537 on: January 05, 2009, 06:30:39 PM »

More than one instance of assault of tourist on Buses!   

1/5/2009 Bondia

http://bondia.com/




Papiamentu translation:

oranjestad – eye attentive of one police at civil owing to conduci at detencion of three young sospecha of owing to atraca-horta two tourist yesterday evening. for more or less 9.30 of night alarma owing to wordo beat for patruyanan is alerto for one tercel blanco numera a-38747 in cual will have three young. they're wordo sospecha of owing to atraca one tourist near of parada of bus at beach. while cu police is provided that busca of the sospechosonan here, alarma is wordo beat alrededor of 11’or of night for another abstraction casi in the same style near of paseo herencia. the modus operandi is cu the ladronnan owing to descend tire of two car of huur, sperando cual is arrive first. the first tourist cu owing to arrive y constata cu the tirenan owing to wordo descend, owing to achieve “ayudo” of one of the sospechosonan. at same instant, one of the another sospechosonan owing to arrive, ranca bag of the tourist y they owing to descend at water. one taxista cu owing to see thing cu owing to happen, owing to beat alarma close police. one rato after central of police is wordo avisa door of one colega of they civil, cu past owing to see the tercel provided that cuestion fast one parillada at ponton. at once owing to send refuerso policial y so owing to succeed detene all three sospechoso. seems cu already they owing to come y drink in the restaurant y owing to pay cu dollars. the caso is under investigacion come across

1/5/2009 Bondia Page 18a

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
johan555
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hay welkom here !!!


« Reply #538 on: January 05, 2009, 06:32:15 PM »

Max was lost on Aruba on 5-12-2004 no investigation ! nothing !

Max Devries would have been 18 years old now



Max and his Dad George









Just over one year later Natalee goes missing.  What was going on with the month of May in Aruba?  SoulBeach?  Or something else?

http://www.aruba.com/calendar/view_entry.php?id=329&date=20040530

SOUL BEACH MUSIC FESTIVAL 2004
Description: SOUL BEACH MUSIC FESTIVAL 2004
Date: Sunday, May 30, 2004 
Repeat Type: Wednesday, May 26, 2004  -  Monday, May 31, 2004 (every Day



...follow the music.....


Found a post about a missing girl in a town called Dordrecht. Turned out she had been taken after a concert by a band called http://www.dicemen.net/

Coincidentally, posts by a Shango seem to refer to this band by name:

http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html

Unfortunately most search results are in Dutch!

Posted by: COLUMBO | Saturday, December 10, 2005 at 05:14 PM

Thank You Poochy...I for One find this Very Interesting! 

 

I'm sure you read all about Max on his website. What always intrigued me was the guy who befriended him - and caused him to go missing. And this man introduced another guy as his 'adopted son', and both were the airport with minimal amount of luggage - not the amount one would take if staying for a week at the H.I. When I googled that guy's name I found an interesting 'accident' in the USA where a motorcyclist got sandwiched between two trucks, and a guy w/the same exact name as the last person seeing Max was driving one of them.

makes one wonder if they trade people for $ to pay off their gambling debts...

Dicemen  --what an interesting name for a band... they must like to gamble I guess.... they must like Aruba because not many islands have casinos/gambling. Wonder if they were in Aruba in 2005 for the SBMF.

Yes that older man was stalking Max and his mother

you said :  When I googled that guy's name I found an interesting 'accident' in the USA where a motorcyclist got sandwiched between two trucks, and a guy w/the same exact name as the last person seeing Max was driving one of them.

can you post that info or give a link ?
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

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Anna
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« Reply #539 on: January 05, 2009, 06:32:17 PM »

At the risk of being accused of continuing the semi off topic discussion of the attractiveness of Peter R de Vries, I would like to note that apparently he does dive as well.




For whatever that might be worth in this regard.

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