Natalee Case Discussion #791 1/6/09 - 1/9/09

[pinkbanana]

I thought Brinkman did great with his interview.  His English is more than sufficient.

Same for Peter R de Vries.  And while Peter is a hottie, Brinkman is no slouch.  He is causing Monkeys to spend extra time on our hair and make up as well.

I understand Peter was nervous about interviews in English but we Americans are not at all critical of that.  I find both totally understandable.

Unfortunately, Mos also has excellent English.  He is not so much of a hottie, however, so he is not forgiven.   

When they are a hottie, the accent is just cute as can be, lol.  But we can understand exactly what they are saying and they do an excellent job.  With de Vries, I might not always be listening anyway, just looking!

 

We know Anna.

 

Janet

++++++


Anna
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #790 1/3/09 -
« Reply #498 on: January 05, 2009, 08:23:16 PM »

Peter R deVries is a very handsome man.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4344.msg613281#msg613281

Well, Greta usually posts a transcript the next day that one can read without all the "distractions" and get a better idea of what was said.


 

Anna, that first post was funny  thank you.

pb

[Anna]

Aruba reminds me of Islamists who say they will cut off your head if you say they are violent.

Brete is saying he will arrange for his thugs to beat up Brinkman for saying he has thugs, etc. LOL!

And Rudy Croes wants Brinkman slapped or hit in the head for saying Aruba is corrupt and possibly not well suited for the Common Court location.

Then to prove their maturity, the accuse a member of Parliament of stealing a wine glass.

All done with a straight face, I might add.

[Anna]

Still getting lots of coverage:


 
Natalee Holloway Investigation Could End Soon; Prosecutors Appeal for Information
FOX 29 Lake Charles Wed, 07 Jan 2009 2:56 AM PST
Aruban prosecutors said Tuesday their investigation into the 2005 disappearance of U.S. teenager Natalee Holloway is nearing the end and appealed for anyone with information to come forward. 

Actress Amy Gumenick chosen to play Mountain Brook's Natalee Holloway in made-for-TV movie
Birmingham News Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:52 PM PST
Movie based on book by Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway 

Aruba prosecutor: End is near in Holloway case
NBC 15 Mobile Wed, 07 Jan 2009 5:50 AM PST
Aruban prosecutors say their investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway is nearing the end. They're appealing for anyone with information to come forward. 

Holloway Case Apparently Near End
WTOK-TV Meridian Wed, 07 Jan 2009 8:58 AM PST
Aruban prosecutors say their investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway is nearing the end. 

High price but no results in Holloway case
Radio Netherlands Wed, 07 Jan 2009 4:21 AM PST
Aruba's chief public prosecutor claims the police investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway was one of the most expensive homicide investigations of all time - but the case has still not been solved. 

Aruba prosecutor: End is near in Holloway case
Grand Forks Herald Tue, 06 Jan 2009 6:40 PM PST
Aruban prosecutors said Tuesday their investigation into the 2005 disappearance of U.S. teenager Natalee Holloway is nearing the end and appealed for anyone with information to come forward. Advertisement: DIAMONDS & DESIGNS Check out our post-holiday savings! 

Natalee Holloway Investigation Could End Soon
Fox News Tue, 06 Jan 2009 7:10 PM PST
Chief Prosecutor Hans Mos said his office still needs "at least another few months" to investigate statements made by the only remaining suspect, Joran van der Sloot, during a hidden-camera interview which was broadcast on Dutch television last year. 
 

[klaasend]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_51238.php

Oduber Croes behavior would not explain
7 Jan, 2009, 14:41 (GMT -04:00)

ORANGE CITY - The Aruban Prime Minister Nelson Oduber wants the Parliamentary Discussion Kingdom (POK) not go on 'behavior' of his Justice Minister Rudy Croes. Croes has family visits because "very low turnout, as Monday the reason was that the POK before the opening was almost suspended.

Especially the Dutch parliamentarians wanted Croes questions about his position on the required seat of the Common Court of Justice and in particular its uitalting on the case of Natalee Holloway. Croes said that, during the early phase of the investigation into the missing girl has been tampered with. Dutch MPs suspected that the arrival of the Dutch-PVV MP Hero Brinkman led for the cancellation.

"I am not come to explanations about the actions of a minister," replied Prime Minister Oduber. "Immediately I hear fellow politicians of the MEP to ask for words that politicians from the Netherlands every day, to explain. Regarding the Holloway case, I have publicly stated that we are cooperating with the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles and the U.S.. I hope for a final decision will be taken and that the Minister of Justice rather than a declaration. Until the investigation is completed, we must wait and see. "

What the Prime Minister or damage, as a Dutch parliamentarian as Brinkman Aruba on American television is black. "Everywhere you have bad people in the Netherlands, but you can not let people suffer from one's evil intentions. Article 36 of the Statute says that we help each other and offer assistance, not that we Aruba international black. I regret that. "

[klaasend]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_51237.php

Starting Holloway case re-examined
7 Jan, 2009, 14:39 (GMT -04:00)
 
ORANGE CITY - Attorney General Rob Pietersz has a "fact finding" into the words that Justice Minister Rudy Croes was on the initial phase of the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. That spokeswoman Angela Ann of the Public Prosecutor (OM) confirmed.

In early December Minister Croes said in an interview that the Dutch investigator Jan van der Straten significantly impeded shortly after the disappearance of the American girl in May 2005. In an interview, the Minister Van der Straten time have heard it said: "I can not call my friend Paul." Croes finds it suspicious that there is much traffic between Paul van der Sloot - the father of suspect Joran - and study Van der Straten. Van der Straten would be a second police team deployed, just after Natalees disappearance. "That was the flexible team, a team that is used during carnival," said Croes. He said a new investigation to the role of Van der Straten and van der Sloot. The Dutch State Secretary Ank Bijleveld-Schouten (Kingdom) after the accused claimed that Minister Croes directly whether his statement was true.

Further announcements are not made during the investigation, spokeswoman Angela indicated. "Only when the investigation is completed, its results will be published in outline. It is still hard to predict when that will be. "

  See also 'Holloway investigation is still months'

[SS]

http://www.depers.nl/binnenland/275196/Nieuw-onderzoek-Holloway-zaak.html

Landsrecherche is doing the investigation into the initial investigation.

Considering Landrecherche is the Aruba Police Internal Investigations Department (Aruba) ... would this not be a conflict of interest when it is considered that the perception is that the coverup in the Natalee Holloway investigation reached far  beyond Jan Vander Straaten ... it reached to all levels of the Aruban Aministration.

My understanding is the Landrecherche has had an ongoing role in working with the ALE and investigating aspects the Natalee Holloway case and ... for 3 1/2 years has come up with zilch.

Unless the FBI are invited to investigate the Aruban investigation ... I contend it is just another Dog and Pony Show.

Janet

++++++++

no sovereign country is ever going to let a foreign bureau from outside their jurisdiction investigate their police force.
imagine for a moment the FBI letting themselves investigated by a foreign bureau.
that only could happen when one country occupies another.

so the FBI is never going to be invited to investigate. maybe a supporting role, but never a leading role.
and the FBI don't even wants that. they've got enough on their hands at home.
because the next day they've got hundreds of demands to investigate other cases in foreign countries.
and rightly so because if foreign bureaus of investigation will start investigating eachother it will result in one big mess without justice ever done. endless lawsuits about jurisdictions, double jeopardy and much more.

Brinkman wants the Rijksrecherche to investigate the investigation.
that's a possible option because it is within the jurisdiction of the Kingdom.
but as of now there is not enough political support for that. but that is shifting slowly in the good direction.

Isn't this one of the main functions of Interpol?  Corruption of police organizations?  They have a whole division devoted to just that.

The Bahamas often turn investigations over to the U.S. when our citizens are involved.  Case in point, the recent death of John Travolta's son Jett.

This has happened many times and with many islands in the Caribbean when there is a death of U.S. citizen.

Aruba is the only one I can remember blocking the FBI from any participation at all.  We have come to expect very different behavior from friends and allies in the region.

I have wondered for quite some time if Caps is connected to Interpol or CIA.

[Treehouse]

The investigation into the girl disappeared in 2005 is one of the most expensive investigation ever into a life offense. "Keep a blow to the arm, but I estimate that the investigation more than 10 million dollars (17.5 million florin) took," said Moss. "I dare the United States to-day with an equally expensive investigation into a life offense for the day to come. This took hands full of money. Netherlands sent F16s and detectives who were here to stay. "

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

So was it worth it? Was it worth paying 10 million dollars to protect the individuals responsible for Natalee's disappearance? Did 10 million dollars solve Aruba's problems? Did America forget about Natalee? DID YOU SPEND YOUR FLORINS WISELY?

What, exactly, is the worth of an entire island's reputation?

All that money and no justice for Natalee.

This is really poor fiscal management, Mr. Mos.

[SS]

5 out of the 10 million:

Briesen: Among all challenges we’ve faced, including airlift, US economy slowdown, gas prices etc, this particularly has taken up our time and resources. Everybody got involved in this case. [b]People from the tourism department have been moved to the justice department [/b]to help solve the disappearance. This incident has kept us ‘hostage’ for more than a year. In 2006, we even launched an ad campaign worth $5 M in the US to counter the negative broadcast.

http://www.eturbonews.com/865/us-still-drives-business-aruba-after-holloway-case-closed

Tourism people moved to the justice department!

Yup!!  And that happened within the first week!  I wonder how much more of their $10 million dollars was spent on the salaries of these folks?

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007/03/task-force-fueled-negative-postings.html

TASK FORCE FUELED NEGATIVE POSTINGS
 

Aruba Pledged to Help the Family - Instead, They Did All They Could to Bury Them With Their Daughter


The apparent corruption and collusion within the Aruban government and tourism industry began very early in the case of missing Natalee Holloway. The following will show these forces at work a mere 6 days after Natalee fell victim to her perpetrators on the island of Aruba.

Do you know what Serge Mansur's relationship is to Jossy Jen?TIA

Serge is Jossy's nephew.  He is the son of Alex Elias Manusr, Sr., Jossy's brother.

[texasmom]

hmmm...

Bondia Aruba 1/7/2009

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3461&Itemid=1

venezuela dejado for avisa of boramento for gas in cercania of aruba

wednesday, 07 january 2009 oranjestad - venezuela owing to stay without take contacto or sikiera avisa the netherlands on boramento for gas in cercania of aruba. this owing to come fast during the pok, cu is tumando luga at aruba. as is conoci, recientemente venezuela owing to ehecuta pruebanan for busca one mine of gas new, serca of awanan teritorial of aruba. according one acuerdo of boundary old among the netherlands y venezuela, the is custumber cu the paisnan is informa another of boramento for gas in areanan cu is stick at territory of another. if have one situation cu one mine of gas is happen for territory of another y cu can afecta the medio ambiente marino, have to close one acuerdo for determina medidanan al respecto. first minister oduber owing to informa the parlamentarionan, cu have one mision of representantenan of the netherlands y aruba cu is bayendo venezuela for busca more claridad of the asunto. acolyte of parliament dutch for cda, jan schinkelshoek owing to comenta cu : “esaki is genuinely one asunto of kingdom. here venezuela y kingdom dutch is touch cu another. the is one actividad of boundary cu can have efecto for aruba, specialmente if have cos is bay robez in the buskeda, for cual motibo will can have azeta cu after can soil the beachnan of aruba y cause damage big for turism y medio ambiente.” schinkelshoek owing to tell cu the have all intencion for ask about minister for asuntonan exterior of kingdom maxime verhagen if the mision for venezuela owing to succeed, y if have motibo for continua cu one another accion at the netherlands self. the member of parliament owing to show cu already camba beachnan of aruba owing to stay afecta for motibo cu tankeronan petrolero of venezuela was soil the awanan in cercania of we island. come across

[caesu]

hmmm...

Bondia Aruba 1/7/2009

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3461&Itemid=1

venezuela dejado for avisa of boramento for gas in cercania of aruba

wednesday, 07 january 2009 oranjestad - venezuela owing to stay without take contacto or sikiera avisa the netherlands on boramento for gas in cercania of aruba. this owing to come fast during the pok, cu is tumando luga at aruba. as is conoci, recientemente venezuela owing to ehecuta pruebanan for busca one mine of gas new, serca of awanan teritorial of aruba. according one acuerdo of boundary old among the netherlands y venezuela, the is custumber cu the paisnan is informa another of boramento for gas in areanan cu is stick at territory of another. if have one situation cu one mine of gas is happen for territory of another y cu can afecta the medio ambiente marino, have to close one acuerdo for determina medidanan al respecto. first minister oduber owing to informa the parlamentarionan, cu have one mision of representantenan of the netherlands y aruba cu is bayendo venezuela for busca more claridad of the asunto. acolyte of parliament dutch for cda, jan schinkelshoek owing to comenta cu : “esaki is genuinely one asunto of kingdom. here venezuela y kingdom dutch is touch cu another. the is one actividad of boundary cu can have efecto for aruba, specialmente if have cos is bay robez in the buskeda, for cual motibo will can have azeta cu after can soil the beachnan of aruba y cause damage big for turism y medio ambiente.” schinkelshoek owing to tell cu the have all intencion for ask about minister for asuntonan exterior of kingdom maxime verhagen if the mision for venezuela owing to succeed, y if have motibo for continua cu one another accion at the netherlands self. the member of parliament owing to show cu already camba beachnan of aruba owing to stay afecta for motibo cu tankeronan petrolero of venezuela was soil the awanan in cercania of we island. come across

that's about Venezuela drilling for oil close to Aruba without notification.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article1117419.ece/Venezuela_verzuimt_melden_gasboringen_bij_Aruba

[texasmom]

1/7/2009 Bondia Front Page

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

[texasmom]

hmmm...

Bondia Aruba 1/7/2009

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3461&Itemid=1

venezuela dejado for avisa of boramento for gas in cercania of aruba

wednesday, 07 january 2009 oranjestad - venezuela owing to stay without take contacto or sikiera avisa the netherlands on boramento for gas in cercania of aruba. this owing to come fast during the pok, cu is tumando luga at aruba. as is conoci, recientemente venezuela owing to ehecuta pruebanan for busca one mine of gas new, serca of awanan teritorial of aruba. according one acuerdo of boundary old among the netherlands y venezuela, the is custumber cu the paisnan is informa another of boramento for gas in areanan cu is stick at territory of another. if have one situation cu one mine of gas is happen for territory of another y cu can afecta the medio ambiente marino, have to close one acuerdo for determina medidanan al respecto. first minister oduber owing to informa the parlamentarionan, cu have one mision of representantenan of the netherlands y aruba cu is bayendo venezuela for busca more claridad of the asunto. acolyte of parliament dutch for cda, jan schinkelshoek owing to comenta cu : “esaki is genuinely one asunto of kingdom. here venezuela y kingdom dutch is touch cu another. the is one actividad of boundary cu can have efecto for aruba, specialmente if have cos is bay robez in the buskeda, for cual motibo will can have azeta cu after can soil the beachnan of aruba y cause damage big for turism y medio ambiente.” schinkelshoek owing to tell cu the have all intencion for ask about minister for asuntonan exterior of kingdom maxime verhagen if the mision for venezuela owing to succeed, y if have motibo for continua cu one another accion at the netherlands self. the member of parliament owing to show cu already camba beachnan of aruba owing to stay afecta for motibo cu tankeronan petrolero of venezuela was soil the awanan in cercania of we island. come across

that's about Venezuela drilling for oil close to Aruba without notification.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article1117419.ece/Venezuela_verzuimt_melden_gasboringen_bij_Aruba

Thanks caesu!   

[Ree]

Does anybody have Jossy's email to ask about a copy of the article concerning the bones turned in to Diario?

[Blonde]

Mansur v. Orseck

    Third District Court of Appeal State of Florida, July Term, A.D. 2008

    Docket Number available at www.versuslaw.com
    Citation Number available at www.versuslaw.com
    
October 29, 2008

JOSSY MANSUR AND SERGE MANSUR, AS PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ESTATE OF ALEX MANSUR, APPELLANTS,
v.
PODHURST ORSECK, P.A., KATHERINE W. EZELL AND ROBERT C. JOSEFSBERG, APPELLEES.

An Appeal from the Circuit Court for Miami-Dade County, Michael A. Genden, Judge. Lower Tribunal No. 06-4602.

Koch & Trushin and Bradley H. Trushin and Daniel L. Koch (Fort Lauderdale), for appellants.

Josephs Jack and Susan S. Lerner and Nicole I. Sieb, for appellees.

The opinion of the court was delivered by: Salter, J.

Before GERSTEN, C.J., and COPE and SALTER, JJ.

Jossy Mansur and Serge Mansur, as Personal Representative of the Estate of Alex Mansur,*fn1 appeal a final summary judgment denying their legal malpractice claims against Podhurst Orseck, P.A., Katherine Ezell, and Robert Josefsberg. The question presented below and here is whether the appellants were at any time "clients" of the law firm and its partners. We conclude that genuine issues of fact were shown to exist regarding that question, and thus that the summary judgment should not have been entered.

Background

Ruben Mansur retained Podhurst Orseck to protect his interest, and the interest of three of his brothers (including the two appellants, Jossy and Alex Mansur), in certain Miami-Dade County real estate. The retention as counsel, fee arrangement, and scope of the engagement were not reduced to writing. Podhurst Orseck and its lawyers (collectively, "firm") had represented several members of the Mansur family over a course of some twenty years.

Through a network of offshore and local companies and a trust, the members of the Mansur family controlled a multi-million dollar piece of property on Dodge Island. Ruben and the three brothers for whom he spoke each had (through the intermediary entities) a one-eighth undivided interest in the property, and so did four other Mansur siblings who were estranged from Ruben's group. The latter group, however, was in control of the entity holding title to the real estate in question, so that Ruben and his group were essentially outsiders looking in. Initially, Ruben Mansur asked the firm to investigate a rumored sale of the property.

On April 14, 2003, the firm wrote to the property manager to request information about the sale. The letter began, "This firm represents Ruben Mansur," but also stated "I have also been advised that Messrs. Alex, Jossey [sic] and Miguel Mansur, each of whom similarly have 1/8th beneficial interests in the property, are also desirous of receiving this information."

The firm then found that the property was in foreclosure by a foreign bank, Interbank Aruba. The firm prepared a May 2003 memorandum for Ruben discussing legal options to address his desire "to be certain that he and his brothers Alex, Jossy and Miguel all receive their respective one-eighth shares of any proceeds of such sale." After consultation with Ruben, the firm filed a motion seeking leave for Ruben Mansur to intervene and a proposed cross-claim in the Interbank Aruba foreclosure action. The motion and proposed cross-claim stated that Ruben was acting "on behalf of himself and three brothers," but he did not designate appellants Alex or Jossy Mansur as movants, proposed intervenors, or cross-plaintiffs. Ruben Mansur's supporting affidavit stated that he was "authorized to represent my brothers Alex Elias Mansur, Jossy M. Mansur, and Miguel Jose Mansur, each of whom also are ultimate beneficiaries of one-eighth interests in the subject property." It is undisputed that Ruben Mansur had actual authority to represent the brothers.

In October 2003 a second foreclosure action was commenced against the Dodge Island property by TotalBank. TotalBank named Ruben Mansur, Alex Mansur, Jossy Mansur, and others as defendants,*fn2 and served summonses on Ruben, Alex, Jossy, and Miguel in care of their "authorized agent," a firm attorney. The firm promptly advised counsel for TotalBank in a letter:

I can and do accept service for Ruben. Alex is recently deceased and I have no authority from his estate, nor do I know who his representatives are. While my client, Ruben Mansur, had verbal authority from his brothers to seek to intervene in the Interbank matter, it does not at this point extend to our representation in the TotalBank foreclosure action.

At Ruben's request, the firm prepared a memo which he could distribute to his three brothers to explain the options in both foreclosure cases. The memo summarized the status of the Interbank Aruba and TotalBank foreclosure cases, and it recited that Ruben Mansur had asked the firm to "write something that [Ruben] could send to Jossy, Miguel, and Alex's sons to explain the status of each case and the options available to us." (Emphasis added). Other parts of the memo clearly reflect communications to the appellants:

Counsel for TotalBank called to tell me that the title insurance company had picked up on the record of our motion to intervene in the Interbank suit and that for that reason they are requiring that TotalBank serve each of you with the complaint. She asked if we could accept service on your behalf. . . . .

Consequently, Ruben has given us permission to accept service on his behalf. We can do that for each of you or we can decline and leave them to try to serve you in Aruba. . . . . After you have had an opportunity to review this and talk about it among yourselves, [we] will be happy to discuss it with you further if it would be helpful.

(Emphasis added).

At some point, the firm spoke with Alex Mansur by telephone about the litigation "to explain to him that in conjunction with Ruben after looking at all of the alternatives, we felt that the course of action we were taking was the best we could do and offered the best chance at seeing that there was - that there were funds left from which they might ultimately recover their claimed interests."

By March of 2004, the corporate owner of the property was nearing a sale transaction that would satisfy both of the foreclosing lenders and produce additional proceeds. Interbank prepared a stipulation providing for the entry of an agreed form of final judgment of foreclosure if the sale did not eventuate by a deadline. The stipulation, which was sent to the firm for review, included a special consent provision, joinder, and signature lines for Ruben, Alex, Jossy, and Miguel Mansur. It stated:

Ruben Mansur, Alex Elias Mansur, Jossy Mansur and Miguel Jose Mansur (collectively, "the Mansurs") hereby join in this stipulation and expressly consent to its terms. The Mansurs acknowledge and stipulate that they have no claims or defenses against Interbank relating to the Mortgage, the Property, the Judgment, or this stipulation. The Mansurs further acknowledge and stipulate that the Mortgage is valid and that they have no claim individually to the Property.

The document also provided that all notices to the four brothers would be care of the law firm. Ruben and his three brothers signed on their respective signature lines.

When the firm returned the stipulation to Interbank's attorney, the attorney acknowledged receipt in a letter that began, "I have received a copy of the stipulation executed by your Mansur clients." And finally, in June 2004, the corporate owner of the property closed the sale and paid off the Interbank and TotalBank mortgages without providing notice to the firm. A firm attorney sent a letter to the attorney for the corporate owner expressing concern that the corporate owner "does not intend to live up to its obligations to the four Mansur brothers we represent." (Emphasis added).

When efforts in Florida to collect any surplus proceeds from the sale failed, the appellants (and Ruben and Miguel Mansur) filed the circuit court action alleging professional negligence by the appellees.

Analysis

Establishment of the attorney-client relationship--and thus the attachment of the concomitant rights and duties of each side to the relationship--does not require a written agreement or evidence that fees have been paid or agreed upon.*fn3 The Florida Supreme Court has said that the test for an attorney-client relationship "is a subjective one and hinges upon the client's belief that he is consulting a lawyer in that capacity and his manifested intention is to seek professional legal advice. However, this subjective belief must . . . be a reasonable one." The Fla. Bar v. Beach, 675 So. 2d 106, 109 (Fla. 1996) (citation and internal quotation marks omitted). See also Gonzalez v. Chillura, 892 So. 2d 1075, 1077 (Fla. 2d DCA 2004); Dean v. Dean, 607 So. 2d 494, 497 (Fla. 4th DCA 1992).

As summarized by the Restatement (Third) of the Law Governing Lawyers (2000):

§ 14. Formation Of A Client-Lawyer Relationship

A relationship of client and lawyer arises when:

(1) a person manifests to a lawyer the person's intent that the lawyer provide legal services for the person; and either

(a) the lawyer manifests to the person consent to do so; or

(b) the lawyer fails to manifest lack of consent to do so, and the lawyer knows or reasonably should know that the person reasonably relies on the lawyer to provide the services; or

(2) a tribunal with power to do so appoints the lawyer to provide the services.

Because this is an appeal from a summary judgment, we read the summary judgment record in the light most favorable to the appellants, as the nonmoving parties. See Moore v. Morris, 475 So. 2d 666, 668 (Fla. 1985).

In this case, the firm initially filed pleadings in the Interbank Aruba case on behalf of Ruben Mansur, stating that he was authorized to represent the interests of his three brothers in the matter. The firm then sent a memorandum describing the status of the two foreclosure cases in October 2003 and certain steps that might affect the interests of all four brothers in those cases (accepting service on their behalf, for example, so that they would become active defendants in the TotalBank case; or withdrawing the motion to intervene in the Interbank Aruba case, so that TotalBank would drop the appellants as defendants). A few months later, the firm sent out the stipulation for settlement with provisions for the consent and joinder of the appellants, and providing that notices for the brothers would be sent to the firm. The appellants' belief that they were clients receiving legal advice is also corroborated by the letter from the firm to counsel for the property owner referring to that entity's "obligations to the four Mansur brothers we represent." That belief was also shared by the attorney for Interbank Aruba, who returned the document executed by "your Mansur clients" to the appellees.

Based on these facts in the circuit court record, the motion for summary judgment should not have been granted. The firm's own correspondence referred to "the four Mansur brothers we represent." Viewed in their totality, the documents support a conclusion that the test for the attorney-client relationship was satisfied, and that the firm undertook the representation of Ruben Mansur both on his own behalf and on behalf of the brothers he had the authority to represent.

Another way to consider the issue is to ask this question: would a court have sustained a claim of attorney-client privilege asserted by Alex or Jossy Mansur if they had been subpoenaed to produce a copy of the October 16, 2003, memo? Although the memo was addressed to Ruben Mansur, it was expressly written as something he "could send to Jossy, Miguel and Alex's sons to explain the status of each case and the options available to us." The memo invited each of the four Mansurs to make a decision to authorize or decline the acceptance of service, and the last paragraph anticipated that each of the brothers would review it, talk about it among themselves, and then call the appellees with any further questions. It seems clear that a claim of attorney-client privilege by Alex or Jossy Mansur would have been sustained as to that memorandum. See Samuel v. Shands Teaching Hosp. & Clinics, Inc., 984 So. 2d 627, 628 (Fla. 1st DCA 2008).

We express no opinion regarding the merit, or lack of merit, of the appellants' claims of professional negligence. But on the narrow question considered below, whether or not the appellants have created a genuine issue regarding a material fact, we are required to reverse as to these two appellants. Moore, 475 So. 2d at 668; Berkow v. Isaevna, 983 So. 2d 1242 (Fla. 3d DCA 2008); Model Rules of Prof'l Conduct Scope ¶ 17 (2004) ("Whether a client-lawyer relationship exists for any specific purpose can depend on the circumstances and may be a question of fact.").

Reversed and remanded for further proceedings.

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:mLqkQ3WqZIsJ:fl.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%255CFL%255C2008%255C20081029_0007840.FL.htm/qx+Serge+Mansur's+relationship+is+to+Jossy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

[Blue Moon]

The investigation into the girl disappeared in 2005 is one of the most expensive investigation ever into a life offense. "Keep a blow to the arm, but I estimate that the investigation more than 10 million dollars (17.5 million florin) took," said Moss. "I dare the United States to-day with an equally expensive investigation into a life offense for the day to come. This took hands full of money. Netherlands sent F16s and detectives who were here to stay. "

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

So was it worth it? Was it worth paying 10 million dollars to protect the individuals responsible for Natalee's disappearance? Did 10 million dollars solve Aruba's problems? Did America forget about Natalee? DID YOU SPEND YOUR FLORINS WISELY?

What, exactly, is the worth of an entire island's reputation?

All that money and no justice for Natalee.

This is really poor fiscal management, Mr. Mos.

You stated that very well Treehouse.  It was their choice to spend that money protecting Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoe brothers. If they  had solved this in the first day of Natalee's disappearance then they would have saved a bundle of money.

[texasmom]

1/7/2009 Bondia

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

[texasmom]

1/7/2009  Bondia

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_51237.php

Starting Holloway case re-examined
7 Jan, 2009, 14:39 (GMT -04:00)
 
ORANGE CITY - Attorney General Rob Pietersz has a "fact finding" into the words that Justice Minister Rudy Croes was on the initial phase of the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. That spokeswoman Angela Ann of the Public Prosecutor (OM) confirmed.

In early December Minister Croes said in an interview that the Dutch investigator Jan van der Straten significantly impeded shortly after the disappearance of the American girl in May 2005. In an interview, the Minister Van der Straten time have heard it said: "I can not call my friend Paul." Croes finds it suspicious that there is much traffic between Paul van der Sloot - the father of suspect Joran - and study Van der Straten. Van der Straten would be a second police team deployed, just after Natalees disappearance. "That was the flexible team, a team that is used during carnival," said Croes. He said a new investigation to the role of Van der Straten and van der Sloot. The Dutch State Secretary Ank Bijleveld-Schouten (Kingdom) after the accused claimed that Minister Croes directly whether his statement was true.

Further announcements are not made during the investigation, spokeswoman Angela indicated. "Only when the investigation is completed, its results will be published in outline. It is still hard to predict when that will be. "

  See also 'Holloway investigation is still months'

I do believe it was just a little more than Jan Vander Straaten being overhead "I can not call my friend Paul." is the reason that there may have been a conflict of interest.

It appears the Jan Vander Straaten/Paulus van der Sloot calls that Rudy Croes alluded to have become a non issue.

Janet

+++++

AUGUST, 2006

Eric Zaandam - President Police Union, Aruban television 8/28/06

Now, information are coming out that Jan v/d Straatten was indeed investigated and had telephone conversations with people about the case that he should not have contacts with, or even talk about the case.


Rudy Croes - Minister of Justice - Top 95 radio 8/28/06

Aruban Minister of Justice Mr. Rudy Croes, in relationship with the Natalee Holloway investigation, revealed a very serious information in direction of Van der Straaten.

Minister Croes revealed that he knows about various telephone calls of Van der Straaten and that he, the minister, knows with whom Van der Straaten was talking to ...

<snipped>

Natalee and her family deserve justice, and we will not let up until they have it!
Natalee’s Freebirds

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.msg287560;topicseen#msg287560

[Tamikosmom]

Also off-island was Minister of Justice Hyacintho Croes, who would have presented his thoughts concerning the future of the Common Court of Justice for the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba, which is expected to be located in Oranjestad. Atacho said Croes had clearly indicated that he had serious problems with the manner in which Dutch delegate Hero Brinkman had referred to island of Aruba in the Kingdom and international press.

Atacho further stated that as guests on the island of Aruba, the members of the Netherlands Antilles delegation were refraining from entering the Brinkman issue.

“Basically it is a discussion between the Aruban and Dutch delegations and as the Netherlands Antilles delegation we are not a part of that. We have already said that if Mr. Brinkman believes all the comments he has been making, he should go to the Prosecutor’s Office so that they can be dealt with. But Mr. Brinkman has chosen not to do that and so we leave it at that,” Atacho said.

He said the Netherlands Antilles delegation would continue to make use of all consultations between kingdom partners to discuss topics of common interest that would benefit the people of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. “We will leave this whole matter of Mr. Brinkman as what it is, a soap drama,” Atacho said.

http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/l196/atachol196.html

PVV leader wants to know
about security for Brinkman

THE HAGUE/ORANJESTAD--Leader of the Party for Freedom PVV Geert Wilders on Tuesday demanded quick answers from the Dutch Government about Monday’s incident in Aruba whereby PVV Member of Parliament Hero Brinkman was threatened. He asked what The Hague planned to do about protecting Brinkman.

Wilders wanted to know whether Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende and Justice Minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin had taken notice of the threat against Brinkman, specifically if they had been informed that Aruba’s Chief of Protocol Eric Brete had told Brinkman that he would ‘arrange’ for the Member of Parliament to be beaten up. “Do you share my view that this threat is absolutely unacceptable?” asked Wilders.

“Have you also taken notice of a statement by Aruba’s Justice Minister (Rudy Croes, ed.) who said that ‘Brinkman deserved a smash in the face? Do you share my view that a statement like this by a minister to a member of Dutch Parliament is not tolerable and should be denounced by the Dutch Government?”

“In doing so,” Wilders later told Dutch media, “he is behaving like the Idi Amin of Aruba…”

“If the Arubans lay even one finger on Brinkman I will personally travel to Venezuela to beg for Chavez to take over this corrupt medieval Aruban gang,” Wilders added.

Wilders asked whether the Dutch Government was willing to demand the immediate resignation of Aruba’s Minister of Justice and to discontinue relations with Aruba’s “mafia government” until the minister in question has done so. Wilders referred to Croes as a “dangerous fool.” The MP further asked whether the Dutch Government was willing to take immediate measures to guarantee Brinkman’s safety in Aruba.

Brinkman is one of the members of the Dutch delegation currently visiting the island in connection with the Parliamentary Consultation of the Dutch Kingdom POK, in which all three Parliaments in the Kingdom participate. POK was almost cancelled on Monday after four members of the Aruban cabinet cancelled their speeches at POK.

Instead, Prime Minister Nel Oduber, Rudy Croes, Ramon Lee of Sports and Culture, and Nilo Swaen of Finance sent top civil servants to represent them. The Dutch delegation, feeling disrespected, objected to this move. According to Chairperson of Aruba’s Parliament Mervin Wyatt-Ras this objection almost led to a cancellation of POK.

After many hours of delay, POK kicked off with the opening ceremony. Dutch delegation leader Willibrord van Beek of the liberal democratic VVD party in his opening made some critical remarks. He deplored the replacement of ministers with high level civil servants.

“It concerns a political debate that you want to have as a politician with the responsible persons in government,” he said. In the end, Prime Minister Oduber and Minister Swaen still agreed to address POK.

He also regretted the fact that the agenda point about the Common Court of Justice was dropped. “The Dutch delegation regrets this because we would very much have liked to have had a debate with Minister of Justice Rudy Croes on the matter. It is something on the mind of many Arubans right now.”

The Dutch delegation leader also touched on the issue concerning Brinkman and said that the manner in which the delegations conducted themselves throughout the week is not only a matter of words, but behaviour.

“As parliamentarians we would like to debate each other on an equal level and in a respectful manner.” Van Beek said.

Van Beek also distanced both himself and the Dutch delegation from coverage of the skirmish between Brinkman and Brete which took place yesterday.

“Whether it is true or not; I do not want anything to do with it,” Van Beek “Politicians are charged with controlling themselves as they debate and they are often engaged in debating and exchanging arguments. In politics you have neither friends nor enemies, only supporters and detractors and so we must ensure that we do not give people, especially younger ones, the impression that if there are matters you cannot resolve through debate; then you resolve them through physical violence. This year is to be the year of the parliaments. Up to this point we have seen the negotiations which have taken place between governments and government delegations. The draft legislation is in place and now the parliaments will have their say. We are now entering the decision-making phase where you will actually see democracy blossom.” POK ends on Friday.

http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/l196/wilderl196.html

My youngest son's Dutch American FIL keeps up with the politics of his beloved homeland.  He is under the impression that the Geert Wilders and Hero Brinkman may not be politically correct but ... they speak the truth regarding so many controversial issues.  He is on the email list of each of these politicians.

Janet

[texasmom]

1/7/2009 Bondia

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2