Natalee Case Discussion #791 1/6/09 - 1/9/09

[Tamikosmom]

'afternoon monks

Jen ~ Can you tell me if the Freebirds are still in existence, or has the entire group folded?

Also, do you and Kermit have additional information that you have not divulged regarding the cage?

Thanks, and if you cannot answer, I understand.

This is somewhat of a driveby, but I'll be back later today.
I've been studying in the Persistence thread. 

Hi memphis.

No - Freebirds have not folded.  There are still people there to protect what needs protecting.

I believe all of the high points surrounding the cage and its contents have been divulged - Kyle posted with us starting last March, so there are lots of posts from him.  Mostly peripheral stuff is all that's left, I believe.

But - as Monkeys start pointing out more and more things that could tie into other information Kyle gave us - I'm sure that will come forward as well.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: No one else has access or copies of the photos or footage. All fingers point back to me when this leaks.

'when this leaks'...yet, he protests...    

I've wondered all day if this remark was overlooked or not particularly on topic. 

Nonetheless, I still read on and continue to research.  I am still thinking about Sharon's post about who brokered the Persistence search. 

Sacrificial donors who were scammed into beliving they were financially supporting an undertaking that had everything to do with justice for Natalee Holloway.

Then there were the potential benefits that would be forthcoming to John Silvetti if he would only cooperate in the finale to the great Aruban coverup.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Janet, I don't know that I am convinced there were sacrificial donors who were scammed...birds of a feather....maybe yes, maybe no....and how do you know if they were scammed....?????????????

Going to sleep.

Kyle Kingman's own words tell me that I was scammed by the outreach for donations to underwrite the costs of the Persistence undertaking.

Janet

[SS]

I thought Aruba doesn't get Fox channel so why were they so worried about what Hero b. said on there.  His prepared statement failed him.  He looked and acted "STUPID".

And don't you know he's spent all day writing and practicing his "speech" and seeing himself with visions of grandeur!

I see him with the azzhat.

CBB - the Valentine avatars are beautiful.  You do such nice work.

[crazybabyborg]

Butt, Butt, Bluemoon?

I don't know who's azz it is!!!   

Eeewwwwww!

 

Maybe it belongs to this guy:

Now THAT moon should be BLUE!!!   

Hi Muffy!!   


I get so worked up when I hear Aruban "authorities" take the defensive route on this case. The game's been up for a long time, and they aren't fooling anyone anymore.

[crazybabyborg]

Thank you SS. It's nice to hear because I like making them. I've been trying to hide out in there to finish the avatar thread, but I can't resist news of Natalee. Caylee's heating up too.

In a weird way, I'm so proud of Natalee. Look what she has brought to light, and who knows what she has prevented by perhaps someone making a decision NOT to vacation in Aruba because of her case.

[Tamikosmom]

And I'm glad Dave changed his phone number.  I've said all along too many people are calling this family, MOO

I agree Klaas.  With this second hand info about Dave and the Persistence talk can Red or even you clarify if this subject is now off limits here on the board?  If so I think we need to know especially if it is causing Dave so much problems.  However, I have to condemn all the people who were calling him so much that he felt compelled to change his phone number.  Thanks.

Sorry but just because Hotshot claims Dave is fed up with the talk about Kyle and the Persistence does not mean we will stop looking at all that has transpired in this case.  I also don't believe for a minute that DAVE has the time to read here at SM.  Far more likely people are calling him and telling him things.  I'm very sorry that DAVE is bothered by all these people.  There is no need to call Dave or Beth about what people are discussing in forums unless it is something that will bring Natalee home.

I do not believe for one minute that Jug Twitty and Dave Holloway have been recipients of a comprised list of Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the troubling aspects of the Persistence endeavor ... the troubling aspects that imply that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been retrieved by those who have behind the coverup that has denied justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005 ... retrieved while John Silvetti turned the other way.

Beth Holloway has been informed and ... she has afforded permission to the Natalee's Freebirds to expose all that Kyle Kingman has revealed.

Janet

+++++++

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
 
At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

[texasmom]

1/8/2009 Awe Mainta Pg 26

http://awemainta.com/home/



Papiamentu translation:

thief is try enter in bedroom of tourist tuesday for 2.30 of madruga, asistencia of police owing to wordo ask at one highrise hotel, where one tourist owing to achieve one man stop in his balcon. n’e sitio police is talk cu the tourist muher owing to.a.naci at u.s.a. of 23 year, that is tell police cu past owing to see one man stop in his balcon, hour cu the was sit is see television. by cu the tourist owing to bark he owing to spanta y owing to core bay. but past tourist owing to give polisnan descripcion of he cu is color dark, cabey largo rastra. according the tourist is of 3 trip end the week here, cu he is come stop in his balcon. the is tell also cu past owing to lose one laptop in his bedroom. n’e instant ey, not had not had personal of seguridad at keep trahando n’e hotel.

[crazybabyborg]

I thought that letter should have settled things, Tamikosmom. I had it settled in my mind before that, but I thought the letter was confirmation. Thanks for bringing it forward.   

[Tamikosmom]

I thought that letter should have settled things, Tamikosmom. I had it settled in my mind before that, but I thought the letter was confirmation. Thanks for bringing it forward.   

When it is imply over and over again by those who uphold Kyle that Kermit should never have revealed Kyle Kingman's words that were posted at the Natalee's Freebird's site ... Beth Holloway is being underminded and ... that makes me angry.

Beth Holloway?  Kyle Kingman?

The choice was made on May 30, 2005 ... 2 1/2 years prior to Kyle Kingman entering the scenario.

Janet.

[texasmom]

I thought that letter should have settled things, Tamikosmom. I had it settled in my mind before that, but I thought the letter was confirmation. Thanks for bringing it forward.   

When it is imply over and over again by those who uphold Kyle that Kermit should never have revealed Kyle Kingman's words that were posted at the Natalee's Freebird's site ... Beth Holloway is being underminded and ... that makes me angry.

Beth Holloway?  Kyle Kingman?

The choice was made on May 30, 2005 ... 2 1/2 years prior to Kyle Kingman entering the scenario.

Janet.

I agree Janet.   

[Tamikosmom]

I thought that letter should have settled things, Tamikosmom. I had it settled in my mind before that, but I thought the letter was confirmation. Thanks for bringing it forward.   

When it is imply over and over again by those who uphold Kyle that Kermit should never have revealed Kyle Kingman's words that were posted at the Natalee's Freebird's site ... Beth Holloway is being underminded and ... that makes me angry.

Beth Holloway?  Kyle Kingman?

The choice was made on May 30, 2005 ... 2 1/2 years prior to Kyle Kingman entering the scenario.

Janet.

I agree Janet.   

Thanks CBB and texasmom.

My heart has been heavy since ready Hotshot's post.  I had to say what was on my heart.

Janet

[crazybabyborg]

I thought that letter should have settled things, Tamikosmom. I had it settled in my mind before that, but I thought the letter was confirmation. Thanks for bringing it forward.   

When it is imply over and over again by those who uphold Kyle that Kermit should never have revealed Kyle Kingman's words that were posted at the Natalee's Freebird's site ... Beth Holloway is being underminded and ... that makes me angry.

Beth Holloway?  Kyle Kingman?

The choice was made on May 30, 2005 ... 2 1/2 years prior to Kyle Kingman entering the scenario.

Janet.

Well said. I kept reading comments about "confidences" etc. and I kept looking to see where I was. This is Natalee we are talking about here, and if anyone, anywhere, has information or even possible information relevant to her case, then the "confidences" have no bearing at all, IMO. Step up and speak plainly!

[BUCKSHOT]

'afternoon monks

Jen ~ Can you tell me if the Freebirds are still in existence, or has the entire group folded?

Also, do you and Kermit have additional information that you have not divulged regarding the cage?

Thanks, and if you cannot answer, I understand.

This is somewhat of a driveby, but I'll be back later today.
I've been studying in the Persistence thread. 

Hi memphis.

No - Freebirds have not folded.  There are still people there to protect what needs protecting.

I believe all of the high points surrounding the cage and its contents have been divulged - Kyle posted with us starting last March, so there are lots of posts from him.  Mostly peripheral stuff is all that's left, I believe.

But - as Monkeys start pointing out more and more things that could tie into other information Kyle gave us - I'm sure that will come forward as well.

Does everyone at Freebirds know exactly what happened to NH? All details that night, etc...?
Just curious...

No - I don't think so.  We have not seen any more evidence from that night than everyone else has.  Most have formed the same opinion based on the facts as to how she met her demise - but some do maintain differing opinions on that.

The series we did called In The Face of Evil details what we believe to have been the time, method, and means of the disposal of her remains the following night.  Cell phone towers played a big part in being able to put that together, along with the other facts, of course.

Those cell tower records lend very good support to the position of that cage, btw.

Care to share anything so as to compare notes, sort of, with what the Monkeys have?

[AZLady]

I thought that letter should have settled things, Tamikosmom. I had it settled in my mind before that, but I thought the letter was confirmation. Thanks for bringing it forward.   

When it is imply over and over again by those who uphold Kyle that Kermit should never have revealed Kyle Kingman's words that were posted at the Natalee's Freebird's site ... Beth Holloway is being underminded and ... that makes me angry.

Beth Holloway?  Kyle Kingman?

The choice was made on May 30, 2005 ... 2 1/2 years prior to Kyle Kingman entering the scenario.

Janet.

Well said. I kept reading comments about "confidences" etc. and I kept looking to see where I was. This is Natalee we are talking about here, and if anyone, anywhere, has information or even possible information relevant to her case, then the "confidences" have no bearing at all, IMO. Step up and speak plainly!

I'm still trying to digest all this, but it does seem to me that the letter sent to Klaas by Natalee's Freebirds clarifies and verifies the conclusion we have come to here regarding Kyle's posts and the Persistence's betrayal of Natalee's remains.  I don't understand how a thinking person could rant about betrayal or confidences when Kyle's own words told us what happened.  This is just ignoring what is in front of you and distracting by waving your arms and shouting out unrelated verbiage.  Sounds a bit Aruban-esque to me.

[klaasend]

The Freebird's In the Face of Evil begins with part 1 and continues through to part 6

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.msg290150#msg290150

[klaasend]

GOODNIGHT ALL!

[texasmom]

1/7/2009
 
Fox On the Record

Greta:   Corrupt as hell, that is how Hero Brinkman, a member of the Dutch Parliament describes the island of Aruba.  Brinkman is on the island demanding answers in the Natalee Holloway case.  Brinkman told us last night he had been threatened by Eric Brete.  Brete is an aide to the Aruban Prime Minister.  Now according to Brinkman, Brete actually threatened to beat him up.  This is a picture of the two men the day of the alleged confrontation.  Brete joins us by phone to respond to the allegations.  So Eric what happened?

Brete:  Good evening Greta, I'd like to thank you for having me on your program.  And thank you for the opportunity to wish you and all the people of America a happy and prosperous New Year.  Greta..

Greta:  Thank you sir.

Brete:  You are very welcome.  Greta, we are Arubians and we are very peace loving people. My wife is American and so are my two children.  And our hearts go out to the Holloway family.  But I need you to understand; that I have to defend the people of Aruba.  And we will not accept anyone insulting us.  Mr. Brinkman needs to understand also that he does not have the right to blame Arubians for something that we can't control.  And we will not sit still and let him slander our island.  Greta, you need to understand and know that from the beginning of the investigation it has been a Dutch suspect, a Dutch father and mother, a Dutch investigator, a Dutch prosecutor; and a Dutch judge.  How can Brinkman come to Aruba and say Arubians and his police, the politicians, and the people are corrupt.  Maybe he has to look in his own back yard.  Listen, Hans Mos he is working very hard to bring some light or resolve this case. He is a very honorable and respectable person.  And I think he will come to a conclusion and (?) of this case.  Now what happened that morning.

Greta:   Can you just quickly tell me because we're running way out of time.  Did you threaten him or not?

Brete:  No I did not threaten him.  I told him that he...came into the building and he insulted the Prime Minister and he walked back out.  And I followed him and I told him that if he can call us corrupt how about...hello...

Greta:   Yes, go ahead sir.

Brete:  Yes, if he can call us corrupt how about all the stuff that goes on in Holland with the...I can't hear you...

Greta:  I can hear you sir.  So you're saying Holland is corrupt?

Brete:   I'm saying that there is...I'm not saying Holland is corrupt.  My point that I want to bring to you and to all the listeners..the.... people tonight is that you cannot call somebody corrupt because one thing went bad.  In Holland....

Greta:   Alright, we've got to go sir and I hope you'll come back....I hear the music...so I've got to go and I'd love to have you back. I hope you'll come back sir.  Eric, thank you.

[Anna]

Thanks, TXMom,

I fell asleep before Greta got to the Aruban news.  Good to know what was said.  Exactly as expected and I don't think anyone has claimed the people of Aruba are corrupt, but their elected officials.  And appointed ones as well.

Including the people of Aruba is to incite defensiveness in them and to get them to close rank against Brinkman.  Same as saying Greta and Beth were in Aruba to launch an offensive.  Turns out they are not even there!

And it is certainly not just one thing when everybody from the cop on the corner right up through the judiciary assist in a cover up and refusal to account for our citizen.

[Keepthefaith]

And I'm glad Dave changed his phone number.  I've said all along too many people are calling this family, MOO

I agree Klaas.  With this second hand info about Dave and the Persistence talk can Red or even you clarify if this subject is now off limits here on the board?  If so I think we need to know especially if it is causing Dave so much problems.  However, I have to condemn all the people who were calling him so much that he felt compelled to change his phone number.  Thanks.

Sorry but just because Hotshot claims Dave is fed up with the talk about Kyle and the Persistence does not mean we will stop looking at all that has transpired in this case.  I also don't believe for a minute that DAVE has the time to read here at SM.  Far more likely people are calling him and telling him things.  I'm very sorry that DAVE is bothered by all these people.  There is no need to call Dave or Beth about what people are discussing in forums unless it is something that will bring Natalee home.

I do not believe for one minute that Jug Twitty and Dave Holloway have been recipients of a comprised list of Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the troubling aspects of the Persistence endeavor ... the troubling aspects that imply that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been retrieved by those who have behind the coverup that has denied justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005 ... retrieved while John Silvetti turned the other way.

Beth Holloway has been informed and ... she has afforded permission to the Natalee's Freebirds to expose all that Kyle Kingman has revealed.

Janet

+++++++

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
 
At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

If anybody has a problem with the information we're talking about i think Janet's post CLEARLY states that BETH was,is,and always will be consulted first regarding any information that may be discussed.I trust Scared Monkey's,Red,Klaas,San,2nj,as well as the rest of the Mod's to do there Job.With all due respect please let them do it.I stand with Kermit,Jen,Wingnut,as well as Angie who've brought this information forward.If i've left anyone out.Sorry!To attempt to control what people talk about is the problem in my opinion!

KEEPTHEFAITH


JUSTICE FOR NATALEE

[Keepthefaith]

Day four of arrest week is now upon us.I'm still waiting for the arrest of the Major Player!2 days left.Will a Major player be arrested?

[texasmom]

Thanks, TXMom,

I fell asleep before Greta got to the Aruban news.  Good to know what was said.  Exactly as expected and I don't think anyone has claimed the people of Aruba are corrupt, but their elected officials.  And appointed ones as well.

Including the people of Aruba is to incite defensiveness in them and to get them to close rank against Brinkman.  Same as saying Greta and Beth were in Aruba to launch an offensive.  Turns out they are not even there!

And it is certainly not just one thing when everybody from the cop on the corner right up through the judiciary assist in a cover up and refusal to account for our citizen.

You're welcome Anna!

The statements by Eric Brete sounded very "scripted" in my opinion.  I also found it interesting how when he began to say certain things...he suddenly couldn't hear Greta...lol.  I think maybe he didn't want to stick his foot in too deep...again JMO.