Natalee Case Discussion #791 1/6/09 - 1/9/09

[Keepthefaith]

TM.There is a article in Bon Dia with a picture of Serge Mansur and has Hero Brinkmans name in it.Can you bring it over as you are the best at it?TIA

[texasmom]

TM.There is a article in Bon Dia with a picture of Serge Mansur and has Hero Brinkmans name in it.Can you bring it over as you are the best at it?TIA

Today's issue?  What page?  I'm looking at what I have saved too.  I'll be glad to post it for you.

[texasmom]

TM.There is a article in Bon Dia with a picture of Serge Mansur and has Hero Brinkmans name in it.Can you bring it over as you are the best at it?TIA

Today's issue?  What page?  I'm looking at what I have saved too.  I'll be glad to post it for you.

Found it KTF....it'll be here shortly!

[Keepthefaith]

TM.There is a article in Bon Dia with a picture of Serge Mansur and has Hero Brinkmans name in it.Can you bring it over as you are the best at it?TIA

Today's issue?  What page?  I'm looking at what I have saved too.  I'll be glad to post it for you.

Found it KTF....it'll be here shortly!

Thanx TM.Wonder what it says?

[texasmom]

TM.There is a article in Bon Dia with a picture of Serge Mansur and has Hero Brinkmans name in it.Can you bring it over as you are the best at it?TIA

[Keepthefaith]

Is this a new website TM?

http://www.sergemansur.com/

[texasmom]

TM.There is a article in Bon Dia with a picture of Serge Mansur and has Hero Brinkmans name in it.Can you bring it over as you are the best at it?TIA

Today's issue?  What page?  I'm looking at what I have saved too.  I'll be glad to post it for you.

Found it KTF....it'll be here shortly!

Thanx TM.Wonder what it says?

I'm not good with translating at all!  I think probably something about Rudy Croes needing to control his emotions...maybe think more before he speaks; but that's just me....may not be correct!

I think I recall seeing another article somewhere concerning the same comment that is the headline of this article.  I'm looking for it, if I can find it and run it through the translator I'll bring it over.  Not that it will help much, lol.   

[iris44]

And I'm glad Dave changed his phone number.  I've said all along too many people are calling this family, MOO

I agree Klaas.  With this second hand info about Dave and the Persistence talk can Red or even you clarify if this subject is now off limits here on the board?  If so I think we need to know especially if it is causing Dave so much problems.  However, I have to condemn all the people who were calling him so much that he felt compelled to change his phone number.  Thanks.

Sorry but just because Hotshot claims Dave is fed up with the talk about Kyle and the Persistence does not mean we will stop looking at all that has transpired in this case.  I also don't believe for a minute that DAVE has the time to read here at SM.  Far more likely people are calling him and telling him things.  I'm very sorry that DAVE is bothered by all these people.  There is no need to call Dave or Beth about what people are discussing in forums unless it is something that will bring Natalee home.

I do not believe for one minute that Jug Twitty and Dave Holloway have been recipients of a comprised list of Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the troubling aspects of the Persistence endeavor ... the troubling aspects that imply that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been retrieved by those who have behind the coverup that has denied justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005 ... retrieved while John Silvetti turned the other way.

Beth Holloway has been informed and ... she has afforded permission to the Natalee's Freebirds to expose all that Kyle Kingman has revealed.

Janet

+++++++

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
 
At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

If all this Persistence/Kyle conspiracy theory stuff is the real deal, why is the family, the media, etc. not jumping all over it?  The more I read all Kyle's "statements" the more he reminds of when my son was 14 and had his own website.  I think Kyle the ocean exploring geek has a little make believe world going on, and you're all going along for the ride.  If nobody has any real evidence here (no, Kyle's words are not evidence), I think it's time to get off this subject, especially if it is hurting the family.  I would bank on the fact that the family, DeVries, Tim Miller, Greta, etc. all have a better idea of the real facts of the case than Kyle does.  Re-read the end of Beth's book for her theory, re-watch the Dateline show and see the dedication on the faces of everyone working together on the Persistence.  This Kyle stuff is nothing but conspiracy theory.  You are losing some of the smartest monkeys because most of you are locked onto this one theory, and some are being mean to those who oppose "the" theory!  And aren't the snarky posts talking about other posters off-topic? 

[texasmom]

Is this a new website TM?

http://www.sergemansur.com/

Looks like it was started in 2007.  More information about it at this link:

http://www.whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sergemansur.com%2F&tld=com

[Keepthefaith]

Is this a new website TM?

http://www.sergemansur.com/

Looks like it was started in 2007.  More information about it at this link:

http://www.whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sergemansur.com%2F&tld=com

Thanx TM.It was started June 18th of 2008.Must hit the hay.Goodnight and we'll see what tomorrow holds!

[Keepthefaith]

Is this a new website TM?

http://www.sergemansur.com/

Looks like it was started in 2007.  More information about it at this link:

http://www.whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sergemansur.com%2F&tld=com

Thanx TM.It was started June 18th of 2008.Must hit the hay.Goodnight and we'll see what tomorrow holds!

This is where i got that.Goodnight!

http://www.caribmedia.com/caribmedia/home.do

[texasmom]

Is this a new website TM?

http://www.sergemansur.com/

Looks like it was started in 2007.  More information about it at this link:

http://www.whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sergemansur.com%2F&tld=com

Thanx TM.It was started June 18th of 2008.Must hit the hay.Goodnight and we'll see what tomorrow holds!

http://www.whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sergemansur.com%2F&tld=com

[whois.melbourneit.com]

Domain Name.......... sergemansur.com
  Creation Date........ 2007-11-27
  Registration Date.... 2007-11-27
  Expiry Date.......... 2009-11-27
  Organisation Name.... Serge L. Mansur
  Organisation Address. Ponton 8
  Organisation Address.
  Organisation Address. Oranjestad
  Organisation Address. n/a
  Organisation Address. n/a
  Organisation Address. ARUBA

Admin Name........... Domain Administration
  Admin Address........ P.O. Box 68
  Admin Address........
  Admin Address........ Oranjestad
  Admin Address........ none
  Admin Address........ none
  Admin Address........ ARUBA
  Admin Email.......... domains@caribmedia.com
  Admin Phone.......... 297 583 4144
  Admin Fax............

Tech Name............ Domain Administration
  Tech Address......... P.O. Box 68
  Tech Address.........
  Tech Address......... Oranjestad
  Tech Address......... none
  Tech Address......... none
  Tech Address......... ARUBA
  Tech Email........... domains@caribmedia.com
  Tech Phone........... 297 583 4144
  Tech Fax.............
  Name Server.......... ns1.secure.net
  Name Server.......... ns2.secure.net

[texasmom]

If all this Persistence/Kyle conspiracy theory stuff is the real deal, why is the family, the media, etc. not jumping all over it?  The more I read all Kyle's "statements" the more he reminds of when my son was 14 and had his own website.  I think Kyle the ocean exploring geek has a little make believe world going on, and you're all going along for the ride.  If nobody has any real evidence here (no, Kyle's words are not evidence), I think it's time to get off this subject, especially if it is hurting the family.  I would bank on the fact that the family, DeVries, Tim Miller, Greta, etc. all have a better idea of the real facts of the case than Kyle does.  Re-read the end of Beth's book for her theory, re-watch the Dateline show and see the dedication on the faces of everyone working together on the Persistence.  This Kyle stuff is nothing but conspiracy theory.  You are losing some of the smartest monkeys because most of you are locked onto this one theory, and some are being mean to those who oppose "the" theory!  And aren't the snarky posts talking about other posters off-topic?

Beth IS FAMILY, the information was given to her; she gave permission for it to be released.  It doesn't take a very "smart" monkey to READ that.  It has been stated many, many, many times. 

Klaas and the mods here decide what is off topic or not.  I'll trust them to take care of that.   

Really curious as to who the "smartest" monkeys are that we've lost!  But then again, that would just be your opinion....right?

 

[texasmom]

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!!!

[texasmom]

Goodnight Mere and 8 guests!   

[texasmom]

Johan, you always slip in right when I'm saying goodnight!  You were not up there when I looked before posting.  Didn't want you to think I left you out!

Have a great day!

 

[johan555]

Johan, you always slip in right when I'm saying goodnight!  You were not up there when I looked before posting.  Didn't want you to think I left you out!

Have a great day!

 

are you afraid of me ? 

[johan555]

If all this Persistence/Kyle conspiracy theory stuff is the real deal, why is the family, the media, etc. not jumping all over it?  The more I read all Kyle's "statements" the more he reminds of when my son was 14 and had his own website.  I think Kyle the ocean exploring geek has a little make believe world going on, and you're all going along for the ride.  If nobody has any real evidence here (no, Kyle's words are not evidence), I think it's time to get off this subject, especially if it is hurting the family.  I would bank on the fact that the family, DeVries, Tim Miller, Greta, etc. all have a better idea of the real facts of the case than Kyle does.  Re-read the end of Beth's book for her theory, re-watch the Dateline show and see the dedication on the faces of everyone working together on the Persistence.  This Kyle stuff is nothing but conspiracy theory.  You are losing some of the smartest monkeys because most of you are locked onto this one theory, and some are being mean to those who oppose "the" theory!  And aren't the snarky posts talking about other posters off-topic? 


[/quote]

Peter don't believe in the persistece /cage  theory .
To hide a  body  in a cage would not really smart. And i think the "brain" (Paul) Is smart .
For me is dead certain that Joran is not the brain because he has no brains
Every lawyer has a theory about the perfect crime and how to hush up evidence .
I think every lawyer is a bit obsessed/sick like a fireman likes fire .
And certainly not if the item is a drug post and that place near the shipwreck is a dive spot .
You also need very experienced divers because the cage is 30 meters deep .
I don't think the cage was used, but that she was buried somewhere in Aruba.
Anyone can have his/her own  theory but don't attack people (with a group)if they think different.
It has turned out differently from what I had expected here because for me is important to stay on speaking terms .
When it is allowd to attack posters you make them mouthdead and they quit.
I was attacked last week (i' don't mention names ) because i have another theory ?
Can i have that or is that forbidden ?

[Hotshot]

Sorry but just because Hotshot claims Dave is fed up with the talk about Kyle and the Persistence does not mean we will stop looking at all that has transpired in this case.  I also don't believe for a minute that DAVE has the time to read here at SM.  Far more likely people are calling him and telling him things.  I'm very sorry that DAVE is bothered by all these people.  There is no need to call Dave or Beth about what people are discussing in forums unless it is something that will bring Natalee home.
He was, and does read here, and so does brother Steve.

Beth Holloway has been informed and ... she has afforded permission to the Natalee's Freebirds to expose all that Kyle Kingman has revealed Beth is a very good woman, don't get me wrong, but what is OK with her doesn't mean the rest of the family is OK with it.  The movie coming out is one of those things.  Dave soesn't want the lifetime movie.  He says enough is enough, "Thats my little girl".


iris44
If all this Persistence/Kyle conspiracy theory stuff is the real deal, why is the family, the media, etc. not jumping all over it?  The more I read all Kyle's "statements" the more he reminds of when my son was 14 and had his own website.  I think Kyle the ocean exploring geek has a little make believe world going on, and you're all going along for the ride.  If nobody has any real evidence here (no, Kyle's words are not evidence), I think it's time to get off this subject, especially if it is hurting the family.  I would bank on the fact that the family, DeVries, Tim Miller, Greta, etc. all have a better idea of the real facts of the case than Kyle does.  Re-read the end of Beth's book for her theory, re-watch the Dateline show and see the dedication on the faces of everyone working together on the Persistence.  This Kyle stuff is nothing but conspiracy theory.  You are losing some of the smartest monkeys because most of you are locked onto this one theory, and some are being mean to those who oppose "the" theory!  And aren't the snarky posts talking about other posters off-topic?  
Exactly what I was thinking, but was afraid to say.

I want to thank all who are saying prayers for my family, and I didnt come here to argue.  I too am glad Dave changed his number, and feel way too many have called him.  I feel like I lost a good friend not being able to chat with him. I too hope this time around they get closure...I am off to a days worth of wakes/funerals now, but I feel I am the lucky one.  At least I get to say a real good-bye, the Holloways don't.  Hey Lisa, Good morning!

[San]

And I'm glad Dave changed his phone number.  I've said all along too many people are calling this family, MOO

I agree Klaas.  With this second hand info about Dave and the Persistence talk can Red or even you clarify if this subject is now off limits here on the board?  If so I think we need to know especially if it is causing Dave so much problems.  However, I have to condemn all the people who were calling him so much that he felt compelled to change his phone number.  Thanks.

Sorry but just because Hotshot claims Dave is fed up with the talk about Kyle and the Persistence does not mean we will stop looking at all that has transpired in this case.  I also don't believe for a minute that DAVE has the time to read here at SM.  Far more likely people are calling him and telling him things.  I'm very sorry that DAVE is bothered by all these people.  There is no need to call Dave or Beth about what people are discussing in forums unless it is something that will bring Natalee home.

I do not believe for one minute that Jug Twitty and Dave Holloway have been recipients of a comprised list of Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the troubling aspects of the Persistence endeavor ... the troubling aspects that imply that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been retrieved by those who have behind the coverup that has denied justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005 ... retrieved while John Silvetti turned the other way.

Beth Holloway has been informed and ... she has afforded permission to the Natalee's Freebirds to expose all that Kyle Kingman has revealed.

Janet

+++++++

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
 
At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

If all this Persistence/Kyle conspiracy theory stuff is the real deal, why is the family, the media, etc. not jumping all over it?  The more I read all Kyle's "statements" the more he reminds of when my son was 14 and had his own website.  I think Kyle the ocean exploring geek has a little make believe world going on, and you're all going along for the ride.  If nobody has any real evidence here (no, Kyle's words are not evidence), I think it's time to get off this subject, especially if it is hurting the family.  I would bank on the fact that the family, DeVries, Tim Miller, Greta, etc. all have a better idea of the real facts of the case than Kyle does.  Re-read the end of Beth's book for her theory, re-watch the Dateline show and see the dedication on the faces of everyone working together on the Persistence.  This Kyle stuff is nothing but conspiracy theory.  You are losing some of the smartest monkeys because most of you are locked onto this one theory, and some are being mean to those who oppose "the" theory!   And aren't the snarky posts talking about other posters off-topic? 

People have a choice on what they want to believe.  Nothing is set in stone because we don't have all the facts.  I read the posts and decide what I want to believe.  If certain members chose to leave because I don't believe in their "theory" than that is their problem not mine.  I don't like to be told what I should believe and what I shouldn't.  We are comparing words that were said on two sites.  This all started because a member decided to post at two different places.  When the words are compared there are conflicting stories.  A poster comes on here and says they believe Kyle and he was telling the truth.  That is their choice just like it is my choice to believe Kermit.

Aren't the same people locked into their own theory.  Some are obsessed with a certain theory and want us to play along with a riddle someone posted way back in June 2005.  I don't like riddles and I don't feel like playing along.  But that same poster has the right to believe what they want.  You will never see of post of mine bashing them for believing in what they want.

For the record I was not mean until they got mean.  When I see people being disrespectful to SM then I have a right to defend it.

Because a person does not like what a certain poster says or believes in then just skip the post and move on.  But no they came on here to fight instead.  And they are still fighting and doing things behind the scenes to manipulate people.  I would even say some are even vicious.