Natalee Case Discussion #792 1/9/09 - 1/13/09

[Tamikosmom]

What`s that with you and Kyle Janet?
Are you in love with the guy or what

What is with Kyle??

bastibro ... I am very angry with Kyle Kingsman.  I cannot comprehend why you are not also angry?

In his own words ... Kyle revealed happenings while on board the Persistence which implied that there was a possibility that the last chance for Natalee Holloway to brought home to rest on American soil was forever lost.  Nevertheless ... Kyle failed to report to the FBI or share with the family upon his return to the United States.

bastibro ... put yourself in the place of Natalee Holloway's family.  If there was a possibility that the remains of your loved one could have been in that trap/cage ... would you not be distraught over the chain of custody that Kyle Kingman observed first hand and ... would you not be angry at Kyle Kingsman in his participation of furthering a cover up agenda through his lack of action.

I will not give up on this topic.  Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closure for her long-suffering family dictates that pressure needs to be brought on Aruba to reveal the contents of the cage/trap.

Janet

+++++++


'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/


'The Abrams Report' for July 1
updated 7:47 a.m. PT, Wed., July. 6, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER:  We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She deserves it, and everyone knows it, Martin, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/

[2NJSons_Mom]

Have you seen this one already . . ?

http://www.youtube.com/user/romekresina

Whoa....he's psychic and is fighting demons...Sinner on the back of his shirt....just the thing that would make Beth board a plane to Canada??  I don't think so.

 

[Magnolia]

Actually Private Eye posted here for a very long time before the Persistence endeavor and his last post was the end of June 2008.  I know he became a member at Freebirds too at some point.  But he was posting at SM under a different nickname in 2005 and 2006. 

Klaas - Not trying to bite the hand that feeds me LOL, but PI is not now, nor has he ever been a member at the Freebirds forum. 

Thanks, I assumed he was based on what some others had said.  So he knew information about what was in the trap from other sources than Freebirds...that's even more interresting/telling.

I understood, maybe incorrectly, that PI saw the information that the Freebirds
sent to Beth.  That was when he made the post here about the denim that
sent Kyle into a tailspin.

And why would you go into a tailspin if you knew the family had the pictures.

In my opinion you would go into that tailspin if those pictures weren't shown to the family.

JMO.

That is exactly how I see it, San.   You can almost read the panic
in Kyle's post when he asked PI to contact him privately.

[San]

Actually Private Eye posted here for a very long time before the Persistence endeavor and his last post was the end of June 2008.  I know he became a member at Freebirds too at some point.  But he was posting at SM under a different nickname in 2005 and 2006. 

Klaas - Not trying to bite the hand that feeds me LOL, but PI is not now, nor has he ever been a member at the Freebirds forum. 

Thanks, I assumed he was based on what some others had said.  So he knew information about what was in the trap from other sources than Freebirds...that's even more interresting/telling.

I understood, maybe incorrectly, that PI saw the information that the Freebirds
sent to Beth.  That was when he made the post here about the denim that
sent Kyle into a tailspin.

And why would you go into a tailspin if you knew the family had the pictures.

In my opinion you would go into that tailspin if those pictures weren't shown to the family.

JMO.

That is exactly how I see it, San.   You can almost read the panic
in Kyle's post when he asked PI to contact him privately.

Right.

[always 1]

But it sounds like the guy on the tape says something about a basement.  Can you have basements in Aruba???

Of course Always, there are a lot of houses on THE EVIL ISLAND having basements beneath them.

Oh we dont have basements here, the river goes right through the middle of town.  Only the houses that are about 70 years old have basements because they didnt  realize they would always be full of water.

[Keepthefaith]

What`s that with you and Kyle Janet?
Are you in love with the guy or what

What is with Kyle??

bastibro ... I am very angry with Kyle Kingsman.  I cannot comprehend why you are not also angry?

In his own words ... Kyle revealed happenings while on board the Persistence which implied that there was a possibility that the last chance for Natalee Holloway to brought home to rest on American soil was forever lost.  Nevertheless ... Kyle failed to report to the FBI or share with the family upon his return to the United States.

bastibro ... put yourself in the place of Natalee Holloway's family.  If there was a possibility that the remains of your loved one could have been in that trap/cage ... would you not be distraught over the chain of custody that Kyle Kingman observed first hand and ... would you not be angry at Kyle Kingsman in his participation of furthering a cover up agenda through his lack of action.

I will not give up on this topic.  Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closure for her long-suffering family dictates that pressure needs to be brought on Aruba to reveal the contents of the cage/trap.

Janet

+++++++


'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/


'The Abrams Report' for July 1
updated 7:47 a.m. PT, Wed., July. 6, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER:  We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She deserves it, and everyone knows it, Martin, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/

These are Kyle's own words.If one can't find the problems within his own words?

[Kermit]

Actually Private Eye posted here for a very long time before the Persistence endeavor and his last post was the end of June 2008.  I know he became a member at Freebirds too at some point.  But he was posting at SM under a different nickname in 2005 and 2006. 

Klaas - Not trying to bite the hand that feeds me LOL, but PI is not now, nor has he ever been a member at the Freebirds forum. 

Thanks, I assumed he was based on what some others had said.  So he knew information about what was in the trap from other sources than Freebirds...that's even more interresting/telling.

I understood, maybe incorrectly, that PI saw the information that the Freebirds
sent to Beth.  That was when he made the post here about the denim that
sent Kyle into a tailspin.

And why would you go into a tailspin if you knew the family had the pictures.

In my opinion you would go into that tailspin if those pictures weren't shown to the family.

JMO.

San is correct. Kyle had not shown the photos to the family until he showed them to Freebirds and one of them showed them to PI. That is how PI saw them and I tried to get ahold of Beth about it, but she was out of town. That is why PI posted here at SM about the blue denim. Kyle was very upset and wanted to do damage control.

[Magnolia]

But it sounds like the guy on the tape says something about a basement.  Can you have basements in Aruba???

Of course Always, there are a lot of houses on THE EVIL ISLAND having basements beneath them.

Oh we dont have basements here, the river goes right through the middle of town.  Only the houses that are about 70 years old have basements because they didnt  realize they would always be full of water.

On an island, a basement or a sewer would fill with water every
time the tide comes in.  That is why Aruba uses those ponds for drainage.

[2NJSons_Mom]

But it sounds like the guy on the tape says something about a basement.  Can you have basements in Aruba???

Of course Always, there are a lot of houses on THE EVIL ISLAND having basements beneath them.

Oh we dont have basements here, the river goes right through the middle of town.  Only the houses that are about 70 years old have basements because they didnt  realize they would always be full of water.

We were told by an aruban poster that there were few houses with basements there because of the hard, volcanic soil, not because of the surrounding water.  Same was said of cemeteries having crypts instead of inground burial.  Yet, I am certain that contractors dig some sort of foundation to secure buildings there, but a lot do look like they are on a slab, imo.

[Magnolia]

But it sounds like the guy on the tape says something about a basement.  Can you have basements in Aruba???

Of course Always, there are a lot of houses on THE EVIL ISLAND having basements beneath them.

Oh we dont have basements here, the river goes right through the middle of town.  Only the houses that are about 70 years old have basements because they didnt  realize they would always be full of water.

On an island, a basement or a sewer would fill with water every
time the tide comes in.  That is why Aruba uses those ponds for drainage.

Should be ponds.  Sorry.

Fixed it.

[San]

Actually Private Eye posted here for a very long time before the Persistence endeavor and his last post was the end of June 2008.  I know he became a member at Freebirds too at some point.  But he was posting at SM under a different nickname in 2005 and 2006. 

Klaas - Not trying to bite the hand that feeds me LOL, but PI is not now, nor has he ever been a member at the Freebirds forum. 

Thanks, I assumed he was based on what some others had said.  So he knew information about what was in the trap from other sources than Freebirds...that's even more interresting/telling.

I understood, maybe incorrectly, that PI saw the information that the Freebirds
sent to Beth.  That was when he made the post here about the denim that
sent Kyle into a tailspin.

And why would you go into a tailspin if you knew the family had the pictures.

In my opinion you would go into that tailspin if those pictures weren't shown to the family.

JMO.

San is correct. Kyle had not shown the photos to the family until he showed them to Freebirds and one of them showed them to PI. That is how PI saw them and I tried to get ahold of Beth about it, but she was out of town. That is why PI posted here at SM about the blue denim. Kyle was very upset and wanted to do damage control.

I agree Kermit. 

[bastibro]

But it sounds like the guy on the tape says something about a basement.  Can you have basements in Aruba???

Of course Always, there are a lot of houses on THE EVIL ISLAND having basements beneath them.

Oh we don't have basements here, the river goes right through the middle of town.  Only the houses that are about 70 years old have basements because they didn't realize they would always be full of water.

LOL  Amsterdam is built on stilts. We have allot of basements here, especially the older houses. They have to pump allot to keep them dry 

[Keepthefaith]

Hey Kermit!CAn you believe CapsLockWizard tolds us there was going to be a Major player arrested this week and it didn't happen! I've been emotionally distraught all weekend.

[2NJSons_Mom]

So a birdie let the cat outta the bag, sotospeak....?

[Mere]

Hi.....I think that one of our early Aruban posters told us that Lorenzo was the only one
on the island with a basement....the place he used for parties.  If that information has changed, just go ahead and beat me.....

[always 1]

Hi.....I think that one of our early Aruban posters told us that Lorenzo was the only one
on the island with a basement....the place he used for parties.  If that information has changed, just go ahead and beat me.....

Really, well that makes sense. 

[2NJSons_Mom]

So a birdie let the cat outta the bag, sotospeak....?

What I mean is was it a birdie who showed them to PI or a family member?  I just reread your post, Kermit and may have misunderstood.

[Tamikosmom]

Could the detective and his brother who Kyle Kingman's refers to in his own words possibly be Deepak and Satish Kalpoe?

Janet

++++++++

KYLE KINGSMAN -IN HIS OWN WORDS

CAPS - SHANGO - SIMIAN - DETECTIVE - BROTHER

Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Kyle: This is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand

Kyle: I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

Kyle: Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case. He claimed that his brother had a vision about Natalee¢s body offshore and had coordinates. He and his brother agreed to meet on the Persistence. The detective¢s brother gave what he thought were coordinates, but turned out to be a line of latitude. This latitude aligned with Arashi beach and came within a half mile of the fish trap.

Kyle:  IF a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

Kyle:  My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining. He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. Basically, if you stood on land and pointed straight to the trap and were right on the money... this is what the difference amounts to. Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude. I would have found the trap without the latitude, but it was very strange. None of us pressed the two for more information because they clearly were VERY uncomfortable.

The brother of the detective came to us and was very persistent over the information. He was almost in tears and just had to "clear his conscience" about it.

His brother, the detective came with him to 'validate him'.

Personally, I think the detective was Simian. The guy kept his mouth shut for the most part but was obviously intelligent and knew a lot more than he led on. It didn't seem he immediately trusted us but gradually became more comfortable, enough to talk.

I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap. Basically, by using his brother and claiming the information he shared was only based on a vision, it distances the detective from responsibility and makes it hard to point back to him should it be a problem later. I think the whole game was bogus and he knew almost everything but was helping how he was able and felt comfortable. I don't understand why he had to use his brother and claim a "vision".

The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up. Not wanting to be implicated but still wanting to help, he could shift the information to a vision of his brothers, perhaps still help a bit and claim no-involvement. However, this man was intelligent enough, cared about the case, yet was self implicated to a high enough level to want to be kept his knowledge a secret. He spoke well enough english and knew everything in my opinion. Perhaps I should find out his name. I never got it. We may never have.

Kyle: Based on the little I know of Simian, there are striking similarities that stood out after I laid down on the evening I met with the detective and his brother.Perhaps Simian is the detective and Shango is the brother.

Kyle:  Since the trap was only in 90ft of water and the detective knew about the latitude, did the Polis already know if it's location prior to the search?

Kyle:   The detective originally wouldn't meet with us and only wanted us to meet with his brother. We convinced him to meet along with his brother and made him feel as comfortable as possible. He reluctantly agreed but wouldn't talk. The brother did all the talking at first. It seemed to me the brother was acting out the "vision" scenario to protect the detective brother. It didn't feel like the brother was in any way corrupt or connected. Also, he wasn't that bright compared to the detective brother. After a while the detective started asking some questions and loosened up a bit. With the pointed questions he asked he proved he knew a lot, but we didn't press him.

Kyle:  The reason I think the detective is Simian is that:
- he is intimately connected to the case
- forced into silence
- both he and the brother seemed to want the case solved but the whole encounter was so cryptic
- he is condemned if his identity and knowledge were coth exposed. One or the other, he's still safe
- he was intelligent and had a good enough command over the english language (not common over the rest of the bunch)
- IF his brother was acting on his behalf with the whole 'I had a vision' act, then the detective's character supports pulling something like Simian off.
- the detective was very internet and computer savy, which was unusual for the bulk of the Polis.
- It seemed he knew who I was when we were introduced, and said something indicating he had been reading the blog.
- his character was very cryptic; the way he moved, spoke, and asked questions was just not normal.

Kyle:  Caps is not Simian. He has indicated he knows who was either Shango or Simian. The person he thinks it is, is a cop.

Kyle:  It was Clyde Burke that went to the meeting with Helen Lejuz

Kyle:  I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

I would appreciate some feedback.

Thanks

Janet

[2NJSons_Mom]

Hi.....I think that one of our early Aruban posters told us that Lorenzo was the only one
on the island with a basement....the place he used for parties.  If that information has changed, just go ahead and beat me.....

Mere, that's where I thought my recollection came from....don't have the quotes, right now to prove either one of us wrong...and you definitely are not getting a beating.   

[San]

Hi.....I think that one of our early Aruban posters told us that Lorenzo was the only one
on the island with a basement....the place he used for parties.  If that information has changed, just go ahead and beat me.....

You are right Mere.  I just don't remember who said it.