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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #792 1/9/09 - 1/13/09  (Read 205861 times)
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #620 on: January 11, 2009, 07:45:52 PM »


Could the detective and his brother who Kyle Kingman's refers to in his own words possibly be Deepak and Satish Kalpoe?Janet


Kyle would have recognized the Kalpoes if they were with the Detective and his brother.

I think Kyle suspected someone was leaking information to Destiny and Caps.


Thanks Kermit.

The description overview that Kyle Kingman provides of the dectective and his brother appears to fit the Kalpoe brothers.

I am not sure how much background that Kyle or Silvetti had in regards to the Natalee Holloway case and ... this makes me think that possibily they did not know who they were dealing with.

Think about it.  Logic dictates that the outcome of a joint venture with those who have from the getgo prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway ... is not going to be positive.

I had my doubts regarding Kyle's actual understanding of the situation when I read the following words of his post submitted to the Scared Monkey's site.

Janet

_______


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »


Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help. They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust. Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time. We've helped each other however and whenever we can. They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right. I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning. Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457;topicseen#msg332457



Private Eye comprehends the dynamic encompassing the coverup in the Natalee Holloway investigation perfectly.

Janet

+++++++

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »


But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that  regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750
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« Reply #621 on: January 11, 2009, 08:38:22 PM »

The period of time spoken about in this segment of 60 minutes made me think of last year this time and the Persistance endeavor.  It was one of my thoughts while watching.  I don't have the answers, just more questions.  Anything is possible.

************

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/08/60minutes/main4707770.shtml
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?

Jan. 11, 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CBS) About the only economic break most Americans have gotten in the last six months has been the drastic drop in the price of oil, which has fallen even more precipitously than it rose. In a year's time, a commodity that was theoretically priced according to supply and demand doubled from $69 a barrel to nearly $150, and then, in a period of just three months, crashed along with the stock market.

So what happened? It's a complicated question, and there are lots of theories. But as correspondent Steve Kroft reports, many people believe it was a speculative bubble, not unlike the one that caused the housing crisis, and that it had more to do with traders and speculators on Wall Street than with oil company executives or sheiks in Saudi Arabia.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To understand what happened to the price of oil, you first have to understand the way it's traded. For years it has been bought and sold on something called the commodities futures market. At the New York Mercantile Exchange, it's traded alongside cotton and coffee, copper and steel by brokers who buy and sell contracts to deliver those goods at a certain price at some date in the future.

It was created so that farmers could gauge what their unharvested crops would be worth months in advance, so that factories could lock in the best price for raw materials, and airlines could manage their fuel costs. But more than a year ago those markets started to behave erratically. And when oil doubled to more than $147 a barrel, no one was more suspicious than Dan Gilligan.

As the president of the Petroleum Marketers Association, he represents more than 8,000 retail and wholesale suppliers, everyone from home heating oil companies to gas station owners.

When 60 Minutes talked to him last summer, his members were getting blamed for gouging the public, even though their costs had also gone through the roof. He told Kroft the problem was in the commodities markets, which had been invaded by a new breed of investor.

"Approximately 60 to 70 percent of the oil contracts in the futures markets are now held by speculative entities. Not by companies that need oil, not by the airlines, not by the oil companies. But by investors that are looking to make money from their speculative positions," Gilligan explained.

Gilligan said these investors don't actually take delivery of the oil. "All they do is buy the paper, and hope that they can sell it for more than they paid for it. Before they have to take delivery."

"They're trying to make money on the market for oil?" Kroft asked.

"Absolutely," Gilligan replied. "On the volatility that exists in the market. They make it going up and down."

He says his members in the home heating oil business, like Sean Cota of Bellows Falls, Vt., were the first to notice the effects a few years ago when prices seemed to disconnect from the basic fundamentals of supply and demand. Cota says there was plenty of product at the supply terminals, but the prices kept going up and up.

"We've had three price changes during the day where we pick up products, actually don't know what we paid for it and we'll go out and we'll sell that to the retail customer guessing at what the price was," Cota remembered. "The volatility is being driven by the huge amounts of money and the huge amounts of leverage that is going in to these markets."

About the same time, hedge fund manager Michael Masters reached the same conclusion. Masters' expertise is in tracking the flow of investments into and out of financial markets and he noticed huge amounts of money leaving stocks for commodities and oil futures, most of it going into index funds, betting the price of oil was going to go up.

Asked who was buying this "paper oil," Masters told Kroft, "The California pension fund. Harvard Endowment. Lots of large institutional investors. And, by the way, other investors, hedge funds, Wall Street trading desks were following right behind them, putting money - sovereign wealth funds were putting money in the futures markets as well. So you had all these investors putting money in the futures markets. And that was driving the price up."

In a five year period, Masters said the amount of money institutional investors, hedge funds, and the big Wall Street banks had placed in the commodities markets went from $13 billion to $300 billion. Last year, 27 barrels of crude were being traded every day on the New York Mercantile Exchange for every one barrel of oil that was actually being consumed in the United States.

"We talked to the largest physical trader of crude oil. And they told us that compared to the size of the investment inflows - and remember, this is the largest physical crude oil trader in the United States - they said that we are basically a flea on an elephant, that that's how big these flows were," Masters remembered.

Yet when Congress began holding hearings last summer and asked Wall Street banker Lawrence Eagles of J.P. Morgan what role excessive speculation played in rising oil prices, the answer was little to none. "We believe that high energy prices are fundamentally a result of supply and demand," he said in his testimony.

As it turns out, not even J.P. Morgan's chief global investment officer agreed with him. The same that day Eagles testified, an e-mail went out to clients saying "an enormous amount of speculation" ran up the price" and "140 dollars in July was ridiculous."

If anyone had any doubts, they were dispelled a few days after that hearing when the price of oil jumped $25 in a single day. That day was Sept. 22.

Michael Greenberger, a former director of trading for the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the federal agency that oversees oil futures, says there were no supply disruptions that could have justified such a big increase.

"Did China and India suddenly have gigantic needs for new oil products in a single day? No. Everybody agrees supply-demand could not drive the price up $25, which was a record increase in the price of oil. The price of oil went from somewhere in the 60s to $147 in less than a year. And we were being told, on that run-up, 'It's supply-demand, supply-demand, supply-demand,'" Greenberger said.

A recent report out of MIT, analyzing world oil production and consumption, also concluded that the basic fundamentals of supply and demand could not have been responsible for last year's run-up in oil prices. And Michael Masters says the U.S. Department of Energy's own statistics show that if the markets had been working properly, the price of oil should have been going down, not up.

"From quarter four of '07 until the second quarter of '08 the EIA, the Energy Information Administration, said that supply went up, worldwide supply went up. And worldwide demand went down. So you have supply going up and demand going down, which generally means the price is going down," Masters told Kroft.

"And this was the period of the spike," Kroft noted.

"This was the period of the spike," Masters agreed. "So you had the largest price increase in history during a time when actual demand was going down and actual supply was going up during the same period. However, the only thing that makes sense that lifted the price was investor demand."

Masters believes the investor demand for commodities, and oil futures in particular, was created on Wall Street by hedge funds and the big Wall Street investment banks like Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Barclays, and J.P. Morgan, who made billions investing hundreds of billions of dollars of their clients’ money.

"The investment banks facilitated it," Masters said. "You know, they found folks to write papers espousing the benefits of investing in commodities. And then they promoted commodities as a, quote/unquote, 'asset class.' Like, you could invest in commodities just like you could in stocks or bonds or anything else, like they were suitable for long-term investment."

Dan Gilligan of the Petroleum Marketers Association agreed.

"Are you saying that companies like Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley and Barclays have as much to do with the price of oil going up as Exxon? Or…Shell?" Kroft asked.

"Yes," Gilligan said. "I tease people sometimes that, you know, people say, 'Well, who's the largest oil company in America?' And they'll always say, 'Well, Exxon Mobil or Chevron, or BP.' But I'll say, 'No. Morgan Stanley.'"

Morgan Stanley isn't an oil company in the traditional sense of the word - it doesn't own or control oil wells or refineries, or gas stations. But according to documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, Morgan Stanley is a significant player in the wholesale market through various entities controlled by the corporation.

It not only buys and sells the physical product through subsidiaries and companies that it controls, Morgan Stanley has the capacity to store and hold 20 million barrels. For example, some storage tanks in New Haven, Conn. hold Morgan Stanley heating oil bound for homes in New England, where it controls nearly 15 percent of the market.

The Wall Street bank Goldman Sachs also has huge stakes in companies that own a refinery in Coffeyville, Kan., and control 43,000 miles of pipeline and more than 150 storage terminals.

And analysts at both investment banks contributed to the oil frenzy that drove prices to record highs: Goldman's top oil analyst predicted last March that the price of a barrel was going to $200; Morgan Stanley predicted $150 a barrel.

Both companies declined 60 Minutes' requests for an interview, but maintain that their oil businesses are completely separate from their trading activities, and that neither influence the independent opinions of their analysts. There is no evidence that either company has done anything illegal.

Asked if there is price manipulation going on, Dan Gilligan told Kroft, "I can't say. And the reason I can't say it, is because nobody knows. Our federal regulators don't have access to the data. They don't know who holds what positions."

"Why don't they know?" Kroft asked.

"Because federal law doesn't give them the jurisdiction to find out," Gilligan said.

It's impossible to tell exactly who was buying and selling all those oil contracts because most of the trading is now conducted in secret, with no public scrutiny or government oversight. Over time, the big Wall Street banks were allowed to buy and sell as many oil contracts as they wanted for their clients, circumventing regulations intended to limit speculation. And in 2000, Congress effectively deregulated the futures market, granting exemptions for complicated derivative investments called oil swaps, as well as electronic trading on private exchanges.

"Who was responsible for deregulating the oil future market?" Kroft asked Michael Greenberger.

"You'd have to say Enron," he replied. "This was something they desperately wanted, and they got."

Greenberger, who wanted more regulation while he was at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, not less, says it all happened when Enron was the seventh largest corporation in the United States. "This was when Enron was riding high. And what Enron wanted, Enron got."

Asked why they wanted a deregulated market in oil futures, Greenberger said, "Because they wanted to establish their own little energy futures exchange through computerized trading. They knew that if they could get this trading engine established without the controls that had been placed on speculators, they would have the ability to drive the price of energy products in any way they wanted to take it."

"When Enron failed, we learned that Enron, and its conspirators who used their trading engine, were able to drive the price of electricity up, some say, by as much as 300 percent on the West Coast," he added.

"Is the same thing going on right now in the oil business?" Kroft asked.

"Every Enron trader, who knew how to do these manipulations, became the most valuable employee on Wall Street," Greenberger said.

But some of them may now be looking for work. The oil bubble began to deflate early last fall when Congress threatened new regulations and federal agencies announced they were beginning major investigations. It finally popped with the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers and the near collapse of AIG, who were both heavily invested in the oil markets. With hedge funds and investment houses facing margin calls, the speculators headed for the exits.

"From July 15th until the end of November, roughly $70 billion came out of commodities futures from these index funds," Masters explained. "In fact, gasoline demand went down by roughly five percent over that same period of time. Yet the price of crude oil dropped more than $100 a barrel. It dropped 75 percent."

Asked how he explains that, Masters said, "By looking at investors, that's the only way you can explain it."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The regulatory lapses in the commodities market that many believe fomented the rampant speculation in oil have still not been addressed, although the incoming Obama administration has promised to do so.




Produced by Leslie Cockburn
© MMIX, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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« Reply #622 on: January 11, 2009, 08:41:35 PM »

You have probably discussed this, but isnt Lorenzo young, with kinda long dark hair???  How does he get so much money?  Family?
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« Reply #623 on: January 11, 2009, 08:48:34 PM »

You have probably discussed this, Yes we have. but isnt Lorenzo young, Yes he is with kinda long dark hair??? No.   How does he get so much money?  Drugs Family?

Answers in red.
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« Reply #624 on: January 11, 2009, 08:50:14 PM »

You have probably discussed this, but isnt Lorenzo young, with kinda long dark hair???  How does he get so much money?  Family?

All depends upon what you call young.  Some do very well selling and trafficing drugs.  This is a photo of him last year when he was arrested on the drug charge.  Nothing came of it of course.  Also I don't consider this long hair  :





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« Reply #625 on: January 11, 2009, 08:52:42 PM »

You have probably discussed this, but isnt Lorenzo young, with kinda long dark hair???  How does he get so much money?  Family?

All depends upon what you call young.  Some do very well selling and trafficing drugs.  This is a photo of him last year when he was arrested on the drug charge.  Nothing came of it of course.  Also I don't consider this long hair  :






Ok Now I have to go back and find who I thought was Lorenzo, back inna bit.
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« Reply #626 on: January 11, 2009, 09:05:30 PM »

she must be thinking of the Hot dreadlock guy Wink
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« Reply #627 on: January 11, 2009, 09:09:34 PM »

she must be thinking of the Hot dreadlock guy Wink

Brandon Piertze (sp)
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« Reply #628 on: January 11, 2009, 09:16:27 PM »

 

http://arubansecrets.blogspot.com/2005/07/lorenzo-van-rijn.html
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« Reply #629 on: January 11, 2009, 09:19:38 PM »

Brinkman said on Aruba radio and Dutch TV that Oduber earns 25.000 euro a month.
now Oduber wants that Brinkman is going correct this by saying that he was wrong and only earns 5400 euro a month.

if Brinkman doesn't do this, Oduber is going to file a lawsuit against Brinkman.

http://www.destentor.nl/algemeen/binnenland/4328369/Arubaanse-premier-verdient-niet-zo-veel.ece

Brinkman said that Oduber was making 60000 Aruban florin p/m, that would be about 33000 dollar.

1/11/2009 Awe Mainta

Papiamentu translation:


first minister nel oduber is exigi rectificacion of iron brinkman sunday, 11 january 2009 20:34 advocate mr. anthony ruiz of bufete of advocate, croes, wever & tchong owing to send one carta at name for they cliente, first minister nel oduber p’e member of parliament dutch, iron brinkman of faction pvv, in cual is exigi rectificacion of declaracionnan haci during transmision at canal 90 y in oranan of night in the declaration of policy of television nova. iron brinkman owing to give of conoce cu nel oduber have one salary of 60 thousand guilder y near of the entrance here, the mandatario have 5 pensioen acumulativo. nothing of esakinan owing to berdad, según advocate mr, anthony ruiz. is declaracionnan haci without none clase of investigacion debido. for earnest is, cu near of 2 or of afternoon, after of the transmision at canal 90, personalmente brinkman owing to achieve entrega in his hand, copia of the payslip of first minister oduber, but neither this not owing to evita cu brinkman of follow talk his mentiranan. the declaracionnan here is dańino for first minister, assure if dicho declaracionnan do not basa on berdad y is atacha the good name of nel oduber. also cliente of office of abogadonan, croes, wever y tchong is tell cu iron brinkman know debidamente cu canal 90 is one emisora be similar at faction of oposicion avp, cu owing to colabora for emiti declaracionnan mentiroso y cu mala confidence. pesey oduber is tell, if iron brinkman is one person of honor y is exigi respet, then in same form is exigi for saturday ultimo, rectifica his declaracionnan cu as menciona, is basa on one cantidad of lie. if provided that caso brinkman not accomplish cu dicho rectificacion, will entama one caso sumario for demanda dicho rectificacion y first minister oduber is mantene the derecho also for cuminsa one caso of damage y perhuicio for owing to spite his good name. till here the carta of advocate mr. anthony ruiz. but t’e so far, cu we know, iron brinkman till cu yesterday, not owing to rectifica nothing, thing wanted mean, do not first minister nel oduber nothing another of follow cu his caso sumario for achieve the rectificacion cu the is desea. come across


 

The Client:

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #630 on: January 11, 2009, 09:23:34 PM »


Thanks, I think they have the correct spelling of his name:

Brandon Pietersz
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« Reply #631 on: January 11, 2009, 09:30:01 PM »

You have probably discussed this, but isnt Lorenzo young, with kinda long dark hair???  How does he get so much money?  Family?

All depends upon what you call young.  Some do very well selling and trafficing drugs.  This is a photo of him last year when he was arrested on the drug charge.  Nothing came of it of course.  Also I don't consider this long hair  :








"NOBODY HERE IS ABOVE THE LAW"......
Nelson Oduber to Dave Holloway approximately 10 days after Natalee's Disappearance
Nel, why you lie to Dave Holloway??????
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #632 on: January 11, 2009, 09:31:12 PM »

  Klaas~sorry to track you down, but I just sent you an urgent nanner. I'm hanging out on all threads but mainly Caylee, so I hope you get it and take care of it. TIA
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« Reply #633 on: January 11, 2009, 09:35:23 PM »

Klaas~sorry to track you down, but I just sent you an urgent nanner. I'm hanging out on all threads but mainly Caylee, so I hope you get it and take care of it. TIA

Check your email 
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« Reply #634 on: January 11, 2009, 09:36:21 PM »

Ok Im back  it is on WWW.Stickam.com/videoMedia.do and they are not numbered.  But it is a a picture of Joran, the guy in the middle with the long sleeved white shirt is who I am talking about.
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« Reply #635 on: January 11, 2009, 09:47:19 PM »

Ok Im back  it is on WWW.Stickam.com/videoMedia.do and they are not numbered.  But it is a a picture of Joran, the guy in the middle with the long sleeved white shirt is who I am talking about.

Your link isn't working. 
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« Reply #636 on: January 11, 2009, 09:52:19 PM »

Ok Im back  it is on WWW.Stickam.com/videoMedia.do and they are not numbered.  But it is a a picture of Joran, the guy in the middle with the long sleeved white shirt is who I am talking about.



You talking about this photo?  That is Jaime Carrasquilla in the middle and Freddie Arambatzis on the left, Joran's best friends for life.
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« Reply #637 on: January 11, 2009, 09:54:08 PM »

Ok Im back  it is on WWW.Stickam.com/videoMedia.do and they are not numbered.  But it is a a picture of Joran, the guy in the middle with the long sleeved white shirt is who I am talking about.



You talking about this photo?  That is Jaime Carrasquilla in the middle and Freddie Arambatzis on the left, Joran's best friends for life.
Yes, thank you !!!
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« Reply #638 on: January 11, 2009, 10:03:59 PM »

Looks like the lawyer that is going to represent Nelson Oduber in his possible lawsuit against Hero Brinkman is the same one that represented Hendrik Croes in the hit and run case.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2989.700

Papiamentu translation:

advocate mr. ruiz is stop on denuncia false friday, 04 july 2008 - 13:00 yesterday afternoon fiscal owing to tell judge cu the do not achieve legalmente prove attempt of cause maltrato severo y niether cu mr. hendrik croes genuinely owing to strike the agent of police the.v.maduro cu car. that is nifica cu owing to stay one acusacion only esta place trafico in danger y bay cu car on one person. fiscal owing to exigi castigo condicional y one multa. the acusacionnan contra mr. hendrik croes ta: cu the intension of cause danjo fisico pisa at one person, owing to intencionalmente core bay cu his car on the person ey day 16 of march 2008. click read more for more detayes y imagen. snip


snip
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #639 on: January 11, 2009, 10:08:35 PM »

You have probably discussed this, but isnt Lorenzo young, with kinda long dark hair???  How does he get so much money?  Family?

All depends upon what you call young.  Some do very well selling and trafficing drugs.  This is a photo of him last year when he was arrested on the drug charge.  Nothing came of it of course.  Also I don't consider this long hair  :







theory:


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

[excerpt]
So as I understand it -

1)fourth guy was taken into custody last night and was being questioned.

2)fifth guy arrested this morning (different from guy above).

I have heard two names "lorenzo" and "person with initials SGC"...

Is this correct and can anyone tell which one is which?

Posted by: Florida Girl | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:04 PM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/fourth_man.html


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out
As long as DirtyHand is not found

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played   (by PVDS)
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation
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