Natalee Case Discussion #792 1/9/09 - 1/13/09

[bleachedblack]

http://www.magic965.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=87

[Keepthefaith]

This, I think, is what bothers me the most about all of this.

Kyle:  She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing. The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S. I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship.
---------

The proper timing was December 30th and Janurary 7th.

Not only to notify Beth, but also US authorities.

Especially if you KNEW there was something in that cage, and you KNEW Silvetti was following Aruba's lead and trying to take the focus off of it.

That time was the proper time, in hopes something could have been done about it.

Not two months later when you approach a private group of people in hopes of gaining their assistance in telling Natalee's family.

Not 8 months later when that private group of people had had quite enough of your stalling tactics.

And certainly not 12 months later - as I firmly believe if not for Natalee's Freebirds - the only people to this day who would know of the possibility of Natalee's remains having been in that trap would have been Persistence crew and the broadcast networks they brokered with, and eventually sold the footage to.

What's done is done, tragically and disturbingly.

The only thing left is for International authorities to take a look into the actions by one and all, in hopes of finding out whose remains were in that fish cage.

This also make me SICK.Who are you to control when Beth should get to find out information regarding the potenial of her daughter being in that cage.Again.I thought Kyle was not in charge of anything?Sure seems like he is in complete command of trying to broker a deal.You think?

[Tamikosmom]

Good Morning Janet.Hope your weekend was a pleasant one!I see you're trying to be way to logical again! It's just my opinion but,i find something inherently wrong with Kyle's words regarding the actions taken by the Persistence.I've tried to understand the reasoning behind trying to minimize and rationalize what Kyle's said by some poster's!

Good Mornig Keepthefaith.

Justice for Natalee Holloway is never going to come out of an Aruban/Dutch courtroom.  The domino effect in regards to accountability would be too far reaching.

However ... it appears according to Kyle Kingman's own words that Natalee Holloway remains could possibly have been brought home to rest on American soil but ... it also appears that the opportunity was lost forever by the self-serving motives of John Silvetti.

Think about it.  John Silvetti gave the enemy complete authority over the chain of custody of the contents of that cage/trap.  There was no FBI ******* present.  There was NO ******* other than the Arubans.  There were no pictures taken.

I am sooo angry.

 

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap.

That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

[jen3560]

Janet - that is actually a bit incorrect.

One of the Aruban divers had a camera for the Jan 7th dive.......

If only Kyle hadn't clammed up when we started asking for names.

The names of that diver and the detective brother of the "visionary" would have gone a long, LONG way in getting some answers for Natalee's family.

[bleachedblack]

http://www.magic965.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=87

[jen3560]

bleached - are those pics from inside a bar?

How old is Sebastian?  15, 16?

 

[Tamikosmom]

The only thing left is for International authorities to take a look into the actions by one and all, in hopes of finding out whose remains were in that fish cage.

jen ... Good Morning!

The existence of the ROV images is a Godsend.  Kyle Kingsman may attempt to distance himself from his own words but the ROV images reveal that there was something more than just a piece of fabric that Richardson sent the FBI for analyzing ... inside that trap/capge.

Janet

[bleachedblack]

Jen, yes they are taken inside Sr Frogs  January 9th,and posted on website of Magic 96.5 fm. They are pics of Valentin, he must have been out on winter break-possibly last night? Sebastian is 12- he is the youngest.

Some might ask why do I continue to post pics of the siblings? In this case Val.
ANSWER: He is still a Sloot. I believe he knows more than he has ever told.

[klaasend]

bleached - are those pics from inside a bar?

How old is Sebastian?  15, 16?

 

That is not Sebastian, that is Valentijn

[jen3560]

This also make me SICK.Who are you to control when Beth should get to find out information regarding the potenial of her daughter being in that cage.Again.I thought Kyle was not in charge of anything?Sure seems like he is in complete command of trying to broker a deal.You think?

Exactly!!

I wonder how Kyle would feel if, God forbid, it were HIS daughter that people had possibly found, and done nothing to let him know?
 
If it were potentially HIS daughter's remains people were trying to sell to the highest bidder?

If it were HIS daughter's remains that no one took enough care to see they were handled lawfully and honorably?

I wonder how Kyle would feel if instead - someone who had access to the images of potentially HIS daughter's remains, threatened and postured against those who wouldn't commit the same intolerable and disgusting offenses of hiding them from her family and law enforcement that the Persistence crew did?

Janet is correct - Kyle needs to step up to the plate and do the right thing.

What are "friendship and professional courtesy" in the face of truth, justice, morality, honor and integrity?

[jen3560]

thanks bleached and klaas for that correction.

So how old is Val now?

Sad to note the continued lack of parenting and control by Anita and Paulus.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet - that is actually a bit incorrect.

One of the Aruban divers had a camera for the Jan 7th dive.......

If only Kyle hadn't clammed up when we started asking for names.

The names of that diver and the detective brother of the "visionary" would have gone a long, LONG way in getting some answers for Natalee's family.

Jen

I am aware that photos where taken by the Aruban divers but ... what good did that do.  Those photos have in all probability been destroyed in the name of the cover up along with the contents of the cage/trap.

The objective of the Persistence undertaking was suppose to be all about attempting to retrieve Natalee Holloway's remains.  Yet there was not one picture taken of the chain of custody over to the enemy.

 

However ... I am thankful that ROV images reveal that the Aruban divers did take photos.  Maybe those photos may be the catalyst to answers at some period in time.   

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

Janet, you aren't even a bad dream, let alone a nightmare.  We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857;topicseen#msg366857

[klaasend]

thanks bleached and klaas for that correction.

So how old is Val now?

Sad to note the continued lack of parenting and control by Anita and Paulus.

I believe Val graduated high school last year so he would be in his first year of college.  My guess is 18, maybe 19?

[jen3560]

Janet I agree with you = any footage the divers themselves took is likely long gone.

However - the names of those divers are still very important, IMO.

[bleachedblack]

thanks bleached and klaas for that correction.

So how old is Val now?

Sad to note the continued lack of parenting and control by Anita and Paulus.

Oh cripes you want to see lack of parenting.......this is Sebastian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88NeEHBD1ao&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcE2X3qfei8&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Enwg39Zjf_c&feature=channel_page

[Keepthefaith]

thanks bleached and klaas for that correction.

So how old is Val now?

Sad to note the continued lack of parenting and control by Anita and Paulus.

I think we all understand the sense of entitlement from the Dutch Elite at this point.As long as you're a part of the Dutch elite anything goes.Including Murder!JMOO

[jen3560]

thanks bleached and klaas for that correction.

So how old is Val now?

Sad to note the continued lack of parenting and control by Anita and Paulus.

I believe Val graduated high school last year so he would be in his first year of college.  My guess is 18, maybe 19?

thanks klaas.

It's hard for me to fathom his parents letting him walk in his brother's footsteps.  Considering.......

[Keepthefaith]

Janet I agree with you = any footage the divers themselves took is likely long gone.

However - the names of those divers are still very important, IMO.

You offer Kyle enough money he may just tell you!Sad but True!JMOO

[sharon]

thanks bleached and klaas for that correction.

So how old is Val now?

Sad to note the continued lack of parenting and control by Anita and Paulus.

Oh cripes you want to see lack of parenting.......this is Sebastian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88NeEHBD1ao&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcE2X3qfei8&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Enwg39Zjf_c&feature=channel_page

bb -- I've been watching these freaky videos of Sebastian as you post them.

Unbelievable 

I hope he gets help -- and NOT the kind Joran received.

Thank you -- I appreciate you posting all of these pictures and youtubes.

[caesu]

Dutch Second Chamber
to assess POK overseas

SCHIPHOL--The Dutch Second Chamber plans to evaluate the significance of the Parliamentary Consultation of the Kingdom POK which takes place twice a year between the three Parliaments in the Dutch Kingdom, said Dutch delegation leader Willibrord van Beek on Sunday, after returning from Aruba where POK was held last week.

“It is time for an evaluation. We have to talk about the manner in which we continue these meetings,” van Beek said at a press conference at Amsterdam Schiphol Airport. However, he did not say beforehand that POK will be eliminated because the last three POK meetings were not very fruitful. “Important issues remain, issues that we cannot just dismiss and say that we will not discuss them,” he said.

In January and June 2008, the POK had not been very successful with the meeting in January last year. It was cancelled. This time POK came very close to failure as a result of member of the Dutch delegation, Hero Brinkman of the Party for Freedom PVV. Arubans were very upset about statements that Brinkman made on American TV. Twice he called Aruba’s government corrupt on FoxNews. “People were deeply offended,” said van Beek, who immediately issued a press release following the broadcast to make clear that Brinkman spoke for himself and not on behalf of the Dutch delegation.

When for the third time Brinkman insulted Aruba’s government, by calling Justice Minister Rudy Croes a liar during the meeting on Friday, the Dutch delegation asked for an adjournment to have a serious talk with Brinkman.

Van Beek explained that during the adjournment, the Dutch delegation asked Brinkman the reason he had not discussed his intention to make insulting statements during Friday’s meeting internally first. “He said he hadn’t done so because he knew we wouldn’t agree with him. At that moment, something broke in the delegation. We told him that the delegation had stood by him the entire week. But now he had crossed the line of decency. We told him that he needed to apologise, not only to Aruba, but also to us,” said van Beek.

Brinkman refused to apologise and as a result, the MP was expelled from the Dutch delegation. van Beek said he had to take this decision because Brinkman had gone too far. Van Beek also did not want to go home empty-handed for the second time after last year’s cancellation. He said he had continuously seen to it that Brinkman could express his own political views, even though his opinion was not shared by the rest of the Dutch delegation.

Van Beek said he was not trying to keep anyone out of the delegation. He said he did not have a personal problem with Brinkman. “We had a talk before I left,” said Van Beek, who confirmed that Brinkman will remain a member of the Second Chamber’s Permanent Committee for Antillean and Aruban Affairs NAAZ. He said the delegation would give accountability for what happened in Aruba.

He said the atmosphere of the meetings in Oranjestad had been very tense and difficult. Besides the issue with Brinkman, there were also some challenging issues on the agenda to deal with, such as constitutional reform and the position of Antillean and Arubans in the Netherlands.

“It was tough,” said van Beek. He lamented on the course of events and said that for him too, the week had been a “disappointment.” Even after the incident with Brinkman on Friday was resolved, the situation in the room remained very tense when parties had to wrap up the customary Final Declaration. The remainder of the Dutch delegation returned to the Netherlands Monday morning.

http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/l200/beekl200.html