Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09 - 1/18/09

[Edward]

The test trap is no where near the actual size of the trap that was actually found.
jmho

Blonde.. That family photo does not include a picture of Luis in it that I can see.
I have a picture of Luis here I will find it and post it.

[jen3560]

The test trap is no where near the actual size of the trap that was actually found.
jmho

Blonde.. That family photo does not include a picture of Luis in it that I can see.
I have a picture of Luis here I will find it and post it.

I would beg to differ - it is approx 2 feet smaller than the one found.  According to Kyle's estimation of measurements on the cage found.

[Keepthefaith]

Do we have it confirmed whether Eduardo was present on the Jan 7th Dive?Would it be necessary for Eduardo to be on the boat in order to be in charge?Repetitive questions i know but, just can't quite grasp why the Mansur's have been at every turn in this case?

[jen3560]

The test trap is no where near the actual size of the trap that was actually found.
jmho

Blonde.. That family photo does not include a picture of Luis in it that I can see.
I have a picture of Luis here I will find it and post it.

I would beg to differ - it is approx 2 feet smaller than the one found.  According to Kyle's estimation of measurements on the cage found.

ETA:  And that is IF the cage on the prior page was in fact fashioned with the measurements of approx 5'1/2 x 4' x 17".

And IF the measurements above were correct to begin with.

[jen3560]

Here is more from Hodges about the missing trap, and what they used to make their mock up:

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

The Cage
The fisherman also noticed that a large fishing cage stored behind the first of the three Fisherman's Huts at the southern-most corner was missing. The cage had been there approximately a month since about Good Friday, March 25, 2005. The cage belonged to another fisherman who kept his boat next to these four huts. The boat was still there. But the cage was missing.

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

 

[Edward]

The test trap is no where near the actual size of the trap that was actually found.
jmho

Blonde.. That family photo does not include a picture of Luis in it that I can see.
I have a picture of Luis here I will find it and post it.

I would beg to differ - it is approx 2 feet smaller than the one found.  According to Kyle's estimation of measurements on the cage found.

I am just looking at the divers around the trap found and they are small compared to the trap..
But what ever works for ya.

[Kermit]

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360072#msg360072

Kyle said: "I think rocks in the cage are very unusual and indicate amateurs in opposed to fishermen disposed of the cage.

[johan555]

Here is more from Hodges about the missing trap, and what they used to make their mock up:

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

The Cage
The fisherman also noticed that a large fishing cage stored behind the first of the three Fisherman's Huts at the southern-most corner was missing. The cage had been there approximately a month since about Good Friday, March 25, 2005. The cage belonged to another fisherman who kept his boat next to these four huts. The boat was still there. But the cage was missing.

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

 

there was no cage missing
H.Mos told that in his last press conference.
the cage was at the FM's house

[wreck]

Here is more from Hodges about the missing trap, and what they used to make their mock up:

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

The Cage
The fisherman also noticed that a large fishing cage stored behind the first of the three Fisherman's Huts at the southern-most corner was missing. The cage had been there approximately a month since about Good Friday, March 25, 2005. The cage belonged to another fisherman who kept his boat next to these four huts. The boat was still there. But the cage was missing.

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

 

there was no cage missing
H.Mos told that in his last press conference.
the cage was at the FM's house

....and you believe Mos because.............................?

[johan555]

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360072#msg360072

Kyle said: "I think rocks in the cage are very unusual and indicate amateurs in opposed to fishermen disposed of the cage.

They always put stones in a cage-to let him sink > better

[sharon]

I think Greta has a quote

HANS MOS LIES

I'll have to find the source 

[jen3560]

The test trap is no where near the actual size of the trap that was actually found.
jmho

Blonde.. That family photo does not include a picture of Luis in it that I can see.
I have a picture of Luis here I will find it and post it.

I would beg to differ - it is approx 2 feet smaller than the one found.  According to Kyle's estimation of measurements on the cage found.

I am just looking at the divers around the trap found and they are small compared to the trap..
But what ever works for ya.

I beleive there's a post somewhere from Kyle to PI explaining the distortion from the camera lens.

[johan555]

Here is more from Hodges about the missing trap, and what they used to make their mock up:

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

The Cage
The fisherman also noticed that a large fishing cage stored behind the first of the three Fisherman's Huts at the southern-most corner was missing. The cage had been there approximately a month since about Good Friday, March 25, 2005. The cage belonged to another fisherman who kept his boat next to these four huts. The boat was still there. But the cage was missing.

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

 

there was no cage missing
H.Mos told that in his last press conference.
the cage was at the FM's house

....and you believe Mos because.............................?

The fm told tim also this  : the cage belongs  to "another" fisherman
Mos told the same story and that they coudn't find that FM

[jen3560]

Thamks Kerm!!

So the cage found - according to Kyle's estimations, versus the cage missing based on the fisherman's info - there is about a 2' difference in length, and a 3.5 ft differnce in width - with about 9" difference in height.

Looking at that cage on deck of the Persistence helps me put things in much better perspective.

Especially with that boat you posted.  Fairly small boat for a cage 5 1/2 x 4, so a bit larger of a cage wouldn't have a problem say - fitting onto the Gottenbos much bigger boat, IMO.

[2NJSons_Mom]

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360072#msg360072

Kyle said: "I think rocks in the cage are very unusual and indicate amateurs in opposed to fishermen disposed of the cage.

They always put stones in a cage-to let him sink > better

I used to crab off a dock on Barnegat Bay here in NJ.  The traps were approx. 12"X12"X12 with chains or ropes from the corners that held the sides up until the trap was lowered into the water.  The only thing we put in the trap was bait.   These small traps, as well as the large ones are heavier than water, and dont need stones to sink them, imo. 

On the other hand, fishing line is light, thus weights are used to get the bait/hook into deeper water. 

[jen3560]

Here is more from Hodges about the missing trap, and what they used to make their mock up:

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

The Cage
The fisherman also noticed that a large fishing cage stored behind the first of the three Fisherman's Huts at the southern-most corner was missing. The cage had been there approximately a month since about Good Friday, March 25, 2005. The cage belonged to another fisherman who kept his boat next to these four huts. The boat was still there. But the cage was missing.

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

 

there was no cage missing
H.Mos told that in his last press conference.
the cage was at the FM's house

....and you believe Mos because.............................?

The fm told tim also this  : the cage belongs  to "another" fisherman
Mos told the same story and that they coudn't find that FM

Actually, I believe Mos said that they finally spoke with THE fisherman (over 3 years later) who by that time was saying he had taken his cage home - that it was never missing.

So - I guess it all depends on who a person believes.

[Keepthefaith]

Here is more from Hodges about the missing trap, and what they used to make their mock up:

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

The Cage
The fisherman also noticed that a large fishing cage stored behind the first of the three Fisherman's Huts at the southern-most corner was missing. The cage had been there approximately a month since about Good Friday, March 25, 2005. The cage belonged to another fisherman who kept his boat next to these four huts. The boat was still there. But the cage was missing.

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

 

there was no cage missing
H.Mos told that in his last press conference.
the cage was at the FM's house

....and you believe Mos because.............................?

The fm told tim also this  : the cage belongs  to "another" fisherman
Mos told the same story and that they coudn't find that FM

Actually, I believe Mos said that they finally spoke with THE fisherman (over 3 years later) who by that time was saying he had taken his cage home - that it was never missing.

So - I guess it all depends on who a person believes.

Kermit,Mos,or the fisherman 3 years later?I stand with the FROG...

[texasmom]

Hi monkeys!

About the location of the trap that was found.  Would someone post a link or other info where it is stated that it was located close to a frequently dove on shipwreck.  I've seen the picture here:

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-12-07T09%3A03%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7

but from what it states under that and the date of the post, I don't believe this is the actual location of the trap that was found.  This is the quote from below that picture.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-12-07T09%3A03%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7

The above image is a sample side scan sonar image to illustrate the type of imaging and resolution a high quality digital side scan sonar is capable of acquiring. A wreck (~150ft long 3-masted schooner) is laying upright on the seabed. The dark area to the left of the wreck is the acoustic shadow. A crab trap similar in size and character to the one we will be searching for thought to contain the remains is seen near the bow of the wreck, shown by the black arrow.

Any help with this is appreciated!

Back to work!   

[2NJSons_Mom]

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360072#msg360072

Kyle said: "I think rocks in the cage are very unusual and indicate amateurs in opposed to fishermen disposed of the cage.

They always put stones in a cage-to let him sink > better

I used to crab off a dock on Barnegat Bay here in NJ.  The traps were approx. 12"X12"X12 with chains or ropes from the corners that held the sides up until the trap was lowered into the water.  The only thing we put in the trap was bait.   These small traps, as well as the large ones are heavier than water, and dont need stones to sink them, imo. 

On the other hand, fishing line is light, thus weights are used to get the bait/hook into deeper water. 

No stones needed to sink this.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Yikes, sorry about that.