Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09 - 1/18/09

[jen3560]

Well I was suggesting "denim" could be used.. notice the question mark..

I think a person needs to think like a POOR Colombian fisherman and NOT a spoiled Rich American sport fisherman.. 
A old pair of blue jeans and you cut off the leg and tie both ends.. makes a nice bag that crabs cant rip up to easy..

Well anyways that is just my thoughts on it.. 

I would have to guess that a Colombian fisherman couldn't possibly be that poor as to not be able to afford proper bait bags - considering the cost of steel for that trap and the rigging attached to it.

Especially considering the cost of those bags, versus the cost of constantly having to replace your pants because you've cut them all up.

But that's just my guess.

From the link klaas provided (thanks klaas!)

BA115 Regular $1.45 EA
 
BA117 Large $1.75 EA
 

[Edward]

Obviously you have never met POOR before..
 

[johan555]

johan,

here's a trick to finding out where (approximately) the cage was found.

Find OE's post about when he's standing on the beach watching the coast guard ship.

Take note of where he's standing, which direction he's looking, and how he states that coast guard ship was relative to the trap.

And then look at the video from Dateline, to see approximately how far out they were from shore.

(btw, it was nowhere near the Antilla or Malmok, and further out than the .40 miles the Antilla is  )

oh there it was !!!

[klaasend]

Well I was suggesting "denim" could be used.. notice the question mark..

I think a person needs to think like a POOR Colombian fisherman and NOT a spoiled Rich American sport fisherman.. 
A old pair of blue jeans and you cut off the leg and tie both ends.. makes a nice bag that crabs cant rip up to easy..

Well anyways that is just my thoughts on it.. 

Edward - you are right, a poor fisherman might use anything including denim to make a bag.  Honestly, denim would probably be my last choice but if that's all ya got.

[Tamikosmom]

From my understanding the stone can be used inside of a bait bag.
This bag "Denim"? is filled with fish to attrack crabs.. The rock holds the bait bag on the bottom.

Interesting, Edward.

Where do they do it that way?

I've gone crabbing in Maryland and in NJ and have never seen that before.

I've never seen that done in lobster traps in South Florida either.

I'd like to learn more.
.

My husband ties the mesh bait bag to the center of the trap.  He claims that rocks would not prevent the bait bag from shifting to one side of the trap as the trap made its way to the ocean floor.  Crabs would then be attempting to get at the bait from outside the trap rather than entering it.

I think I got that right.  I do not think he is about to repeat it to me for the fourth time.

 

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Well I was suggesting "denim" could be used.. notice the question mark..

I think a person needs to think like a POOR Colombian fisherman and NOT a spoiled Rich American sport fisherman.. 
A old pair of blue jeans and you cut off the leg and tie both ends.. makes a nice bag that crabs cant rip up to easy..

Well anyways that is just my thoughts on it.. 

Edward - you are right, a poor fisherman might use anything including denim to make a bag.  Honestly, denim would probably be my last choice but if that's all ya got.

Would a poor fisherman be using a crab trap the size of the one discovered during Persistence endeavor?

Janet

[jen3560]

From my understanding the stone can be used inside of a bait bag.
This bag "Denim"? is filled with fish to attrack crabs.. The rock holds the bait bag on the bottom.

Interesting, Edward.

Where do they do it that way?

I've gone crabbing in Maryland and in NJ and have never seen that before.

I've never seen that done in lobster traps in South Florida either.

I'd like to learn more.
.

My husband ties the mesh bait bag to the center of the trap.  He claims that rocks would not prevent the bait bag from shifting to one side of the trap as the trap made its way to the ocean floor.  Crabs would then be attempting to get at the bait from outside the trap rather than entering it.

I think I got that right.  I do not think he is about to repeat it to me for the fourth time.

 

Janet

Hey thanks Janet!

Not being a fisherman myself, that actually makes perfect sense to me!

Tell your hubby you got it!!!!!! 

[jen3560]

Well I was suggesting "denim" could be used.. notice the question mark..

I think a person needs to think like a POOR Colombian fisherman and NOT a spoiled Rich American sport fisherman.. 
A old pair of blue jeans and you cut off the leg and tie both ends.. makes a nice bag that crabs cant rip up to easy..

Well anyways that is just my thoughts on it.. 

Edward - you are right, a poor fisherman might use anything including denim to make a bag.  Honestly, denim would probably be my last choice but if that's all ya got.

Would a poor fisherman be using a crab trap the size of the one discovered during Persistence endeavor?

Janet

I wouldn't think he would be quite so poor with that size of trap, after his first haul of crabs.

But again - I'm not a fisherman, just going by watching that show on Discovery about those big ships who fish for crabs, and rake in a TON of dough.

[Tamikosmom]

From my understanding the stone can be used inside of a bait bag.
This bag "Denim"? is filled with fish to attrack crabs.. The rock holds the bait bag on the bottom.

Interesting, Edward.

Where do they do it that way?

I've gone crabbing in Maryland and in NJ and have never seen that before.

I've never seen that done in lobster traps in South Florida either.

I'd like to learn more.
.

My husband ties the mesh bait bag to the center of the trap.  He claims that rocks would not prevent the bait bag from shifting to one side of the trap as the trap made its way to the ocean floor.  Crabs would then be attempting to get at the bait from outside the trap rather than entering it.

I think I got that right.  I do not think he is about to repeat it to me for the fourth time.

 

Janet

Hey thanks Janet!

Not being a fisherman myself, that actually makes perfect sense to me!

Tell your hubby you got it!!!!!! 

 

[bleachedblack]

I believe this boat is in the location of where the trap was found. This pic was taken from shore Palm Beach right near Fishermans Huts 12/08.

Thankyou Klaas. One more correction- picture was taken 12/07

[jen3560]

thanks bleached!  I believe you are correct.

[bleachedblack]

Yes, Jen. The sizing of the photo distorts the perception on the distance from shore.

[Anna]

Why is everybody talking about crabs?  Isn't that a FISH trap?  It was my understanding that it was for fish only and not crabs.

And I do think someone with a trap that size would use something much thinner than denim for a bait bag.

[jen3560]

Yes, Jen. The sizing of the photo distorts the perception on the distance from shore.

LOL - that's ok.  I'm terrible at judging distances from pictures like that anyway! 

If you do a reverse, and look from the Dateline footage back toward shore- it's easier, for me anyway, to determine the distance because of the landmarks on shore.

[Anna]

Yes, Jen. The sizing of the photo distorts the perception on the distance from shore.

LOL - that's ok.  I'm terrible at judging distances from pictures like that anyway! 

If you do a reverse, and look from the Dateline footage back toward shore- it's easier, for me anyway, to determine the distance because of the landmarks on shore.

Well, what is the approximate distance then?  I have no idea and don't want to just make up something if someone knows and can recall.

[sharon]

From my understanding the stone can be used inside of a bait bag.
This bag "Denim"? is filled with fish to attrack crabs.. The rock holds the bait bag on the bottom.

Interesting, Edward.

Where do they do it that way?

I've gone crabbing in Maryland and in NJ and have never seen that before.

I've never seen that done in lobster traps in South Florida either.

I'd like to learn more.
.

The bait was always fastened to the middle of the trap with a clip or tied somehow when we 've gone.  It seems the bags are used in bait pots within certain traps (a cylindrical 'trap within a trap'). 

 

 

Never used 'bait pots' for crabs. I come from humble beginnings 

[jen3560]

Why is everybody talking about crabs?  Isn't that a FISH trap?  It was my understanding that it was for fish only and not crabs.

And I do think someone with a trap that size would use something much thinner than denim for a bait bag.

I think the nature/type of trap got diminished since 2005 when it was a fish trap.

As the importance of the situation increased, the type/signifigance of the trap decreased to the point where the verbiage being used was confusing to a lot of folks.

[jen3560]

Yes, Jen. The sizing of the photo distorts the perception on the distance from shore.

LOL - that's ok.  I'm terrible at judging distances from pictures like that anyway! 

If you do a reverse, and look from the Dateline footage back toward shore- it's easier, for me anyway, to determine the distance because of the landmarks on shore.

Well, what is the approximate distance then?  I have no idea and don't want to just make up something if someone knows and can recall.

Anna - I believe it was approx 2 miles from shore.

[Anna]

Horizon is about 10-12 miles, isn't it?  Can we base anything on that?

[bleachedblack]

Yes, Jen. The sizing of the photo distorts the perception on the distance from shore.

LOL - that's ok.  I'm terrible at judging distances from pictures like that anyway! 

If you do a reverse, and look from the Dateline footage back toward shore- it's easier, for me anyway, to determine the distance because of the landmarks on shore.

I am just saying this is true from personal viewing. I took the pic.