Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09 - 1/18/09

[Tamikosmom]

Caesu - I think this is the same article

http://www.depers.nl/binnenland/277738/Minister-Aruba-moet-zwijgen-over-Holloway-zaak.html

Thanks Klaas. Thanks Caesu.

Am I understand this correctly.  Rudy Croes is attempting to distance himself from his words?  Who does not want to go forward?

 

What a mess.

Janet

[johan555]

They have to hear also this Lady (Td Croes) about K janssen !   

[klaasend]

They have to hear also this Lady (Td Croes) about K janssen !   

Theresa Croes, and this is pretty old off of Rene van Nie's site.

http://www.renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html

[johan555]

They have to hear also this Lady (Td Croes) about K janssen !   

Theresa Croes, and this is pretty old off of Rene van Nie's site.

http://www.renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html

And they should hear Joran of course    

[caesu]

Caesu - I think this is the same article

http://www.depers.nl/binnenland/277738/Minister-Aruba-moet-zwijgen-over-Holloway-zaak.html

Thanks Klaas. Thanks Caesu.

Am I understand this correctly.  Rudy Croes is attempting to distance himself from his words?  Who does not want to go forward?

 

What a mess.

Janet

PG Pietersz just want Croes to stay silent while the investigation into the investigation is ongoing.
the Landsrecherche investigation is ordered by the PG, not Croes, to not make it seem like the investigation is political.

[MuffyBee]

caesu and klaas,

thank you very much for that information!

Encouraging news, including that Janssen would be expected to answer some questions.

This could be verrrrry interesting.

[sharon]

And they should hear Joran of course    

 

Good one 

[bastibro]

They have to hear also this Lady (Td Croes) about K janssen !   

Theresa Croes, and this is pretty old off of Rene van Nie's site.

http://www.renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html

And they should hear Joran of course    

Super! 

[bastibro]

So Pietersz regrets the statements made by Rudy Croes.
The question is whether Pietersz would also have ordered a investigation into facts without Croes statements . .

Pietersz actually think it is nonsense but for the record is still ordering little investigation?
Let us hope that there will be a serious investigation and not an `Aruban` one, because I get that impression after reading the reasoning of this man 

[Tamikosmom]

So Pietersz regrets the statements made by Rudy Croes.
The question is whether Pietersz would also have ordered a investigation into facts without Croes statements . .

Pietersz actually think it is nonsense but for the record is still ordering little investigation?
Let us hope that there will be a serious investigation and not an `Aruban` one, because I get that impression after reading the reasoning of this man 

bastibro ... my take exactly.

Janet

[bastibro]

So Pietersz regrets the statements made by Rudy Croes.
The question is whether Pietersz would also have ordered a investigation into facts without Croes statements . .

Pietersz actually think it is nonsense but for the record is still ordering little investigation?
Let us hope that there will be a serious investigation and not an `Aruban` one, because I get that impression after reading the reasoning of this man 

bastibro ... my take exactly.

Janet

Those people seem to have no integrity at all

[Blonde]

Anna,

You asked a question about the lenth of the Persistence search having been extended.

The time extenstion and larger grid area was due to Richardson saying they needed to search further out, in deeper waters.

This was right after they found the trap.

Silvetti had already turned his back on the trap by this point, and did what Richardson suggested - left the originally planned search area - and extended their grid into deeper waters further out.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me. After the Jan 7th Dive I got off the boat for R&R from the 9th-14th at the Holiday Inn. Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean". Meanwhile I'm standing on the beach watching the Dutch Coast Guard at the trap site for 42 and 45 minutes respectively over two days (11-12th). When I got back to the Hotel on the 11th and 12th after seeing the coasties out there I told John. He didn't want to hear it and didn't believe it. However, a couple weeks later he told me he looked into it by talking to Richardson who said "...not to worry, the Coast Guard doesn't have dive capabilities.
GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!  GOOD MORNING ZOOKEEPERS!

Janet
8:30 AM PT

I'm having difficulty with these Richardson quotes.  When did he learn of this revelation that Natalee is in the deep ocean?  WTH

USCG has dive units.  I find it absurd that a tourist island has a coast guard without dive capabilities. 

Again, logic dictates.

Working with the Aruba police dive division, Coast Guard, and Port Authority has been an astonishing experience. Since December 15th we've established a solid working relationship based on openness and trust. Most of the successful rapport was due to getting the media hype out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder through time. We've helped each other however and whenever we can. They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to ascertain the relationships and bonds. Although highly skeptical and suspecting in the beginning, it's clear we're all carefully and diligently working towards a common goal. It seems we share the same attitudes of integrity, courage, dedication, and hope. We’ve all struck an accord in the desire for closure and healing for the families involved and restoring the relationship between our beloved countries.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:2nmFQOyFVZsJ:nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/01/xv-aruba.html+does+Coast+Guard+in+aruba+have+dive+capabilities&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

[caesu]

So Pietersz regrets the statements made by Rudy Croes.
The question is whether Pietersz would also have ordered a investigation into facts without Croes statements . .

Pietersz actually think it is nonsense but for the record is still ordering little investigation?
Let us hope that there will be a serious investigation and not an `Aruban` one, because I get that impression after reading the reasoning of this man 

that's indeed kind of odd.
but you could also read it that Pietersz is saying Croes shouldn't have said it publicly, instead let the PG know the information privately.
but then i ask why didn't do Croes this 3.5 years ago?
and would Pietersz have ordered the Landsrecherche investigation if there was no media-attention (about Croes comments) and demands from Bijleveld for an investigation.

funny thing in this is that each time everyone (other members of parliament) disagrees with Brinkman publically.
but in the end Aruba does what he demanded. (or at least try to make it appear that they do what he demanded).
let's hope something comes of it.

i would prefer a full Rijksrecherche investigation.

for now it's good that Croes name and Karin Janssen name gets mentioned in the Dutch media again.
i hope Croes isn't smart and opens his stupid mouth again.

[Tamikosmom]

Working with the Aruba police dive division, Coast Guard, and Port Authority has been an astonishing experience. Since December 15th we've established a solid working relationship based on openness and trust. Most of the successful rapport was due to getting the media hype out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder through time. We've helped each other however and whenever we can. They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to ascertain the relationships and bonds. Although highly skeptical and suspecting in the beginning, it's clear we're all carefully and diligently working towards a common goal. It seems we share the same attitudes of integrity, courage, dedication, and hope. We’ve all struck an accord in the desire for closure and healing for the families involved and restoring the relationship between our beloved countries.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:2nmFQOyFVZsJ:nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/01/xv-aruba.html+does+Coast+Guard+in+aruba+have+dive+capabilities&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

The Search for Natalee Holloway
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/01/xv-aruba.html

+++++++

Blonde ... Kyle Kingman was so deceptive in his words in the above post which he submitted on "Sun 27-Jan 2355 hrs".  He had already witnessed the chain of custody pertaining to the contents of the cage/trap ... the chain of custody that did not include the crew of the Persistence ... the chain of custody that took place on January 7, 2008.  Kyle states in his own word that he was concerned ... concerned that the contents of that cage would never be known.

Think about it Kyle.  Your words to the Persistence blog ... The Search for Natalee Holloway ... implies that you were knowlingly upholding the enemy who had prevented justice from prevailing since the getgo and ... you were fully aware that you were covering up for John Silvetti's participation in the finale' to the great Aruban coverup.

Dispicable!!

Janet

+++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further.  After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle:    John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

[Keepthefaith]

Working with the Aruba police dive division, Coast Guard, and Port Authority has been an astonishing experience. Since December 15th we've established a solid working relationship based on openness and trust. Most of the successful rapport was due to getting the media hype out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder through time. We've helped each other however and whenever we can. They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to ascertain the relationships and bonds. Although highly skeptical and suspecting in the beginning, it's clear we're all carefully and diligently working towards a common goal. It seems we share the same attitudes of integrity, courage, dedication, and hope. We’ve all struck an accord in the desire for closure and healing for the families involved and restoring the relationship between our beloved countries.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:2nmFQOyFVZsJ:nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/01/xv-aruba.html+does+Coast+Guard+in+aruba+have+dive+capabilities&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

The Search for Natalee Holloway
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/01/xv-aruba.html

+++++++

Blonde ... Kyle Kingman was so deceptive in his words in the above post which he submitted on "Sun 27-Jan 2355 hrs".  He had already witnessed the chain of custody pertaining to the contents of the cage/trap ... the chain of custody that did not include the crew of the Persistence ... the chain of custody that took place on January 7, 2008.  Kyle states in his own word that he was concerned ... concerned that the contents of that cage would never be known.

Think about it Kyle.  Your words to the Persistence blog ... The Search for Natalee Holloway ... implies that you were knowlingly upholding the enemy who had prevented justice from prevailing since the getgo and ... you were fully aware that you were covering up for John Silvetti's participation in the finale' to the great Aruban coverup.

Dispicable!!

Janet

+++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further.  After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle:    John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

The Persistence.What a great group of advocates for Natalee,as well as our country!

[Tamikosmom]

I cannot comprehend why EVERY monkey who reads Kyle Kingman's own words in regards to the happening encompassing the Persistence undertaking is not angry ... is ready to move on.  Natalee Holloway deserved more.  IMO.  The family deserved more.  Those who sacrificially donated deserved more.

When it is considered that the Arubans are preceived to be behind a coverup that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005 ... logic dictates that without an agreement negotiated by John Silvetti with the ALE in the planning stages of the Persistence undertaking in regards to the chain of custody IF anything appeared to be case related were discovered ... the entire endeavor was doomed prior to from the beginning.

When it is considered that the Arubans are preceived to be behind a coverup that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005 ... logic dictates that without an agreement negotiated by John Silvetti with the ALE in the planning stages of the Persistence undertaking in regard to an FBI agent on board to observe the chain of custody IFanything that appeared to be case related were discovered ... the entire endeavor was doomed prior to even beginning.

Private Eye ... Natalee Holloway's uncle ... said it best.

Janet

++++++


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy.  The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

[Tamikosmom]

 

[texasmom]

You are not alone Janet....   

I'm mad too, and I can't get past it.  And I'm sad....for Natalee.

[Tamikosmom]

You are not alone Janet....   

I'm mad too, and I can't get past it.  And I'm sad....for Natalee.

Thanks texasmom.

In my opinion ... I believe with all my heart that there will be justice but ... the domino effect of accountability implies justice is never going to come out of an Aruban or Dutch courtroom for Natalee Holloway.

However ... the Persistence undertaking held out hope that a measure of closure would be afforded the family IF Natalee Holloway's remains were discovered.  That hope was forever lost when ... according to Kyle Kingman's own words ... Silvetti's self-serving interests took priority.

 

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

You are not alone Janet....   

I'm mad too, and I can't get past it.  And I'm sad....for Natalee.

Accountability and the Persistence are like OIL and Water!