Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09 - 1/18/09

[Keepthefaith]

I have a question for everyone to ponder.  We all know how Beth, Dave, Jug and others in the family were very vocal when Natalee went missing.  Very much into searching for her and ready to expose what they went through in Aruba and the mess that was going on.  Here is the question.  Do you think that if there was any chance that Natalee was in that trap that the family would be so quiet?  We have heard nothing from the family.  I personally think that in all this turmoil about the crab trap I would take my cues from the family.  They do know more than us and yes they do know more than Kermit.

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some justice!

At who's request?

[casa]

I have a question for everyone to ponder.  We all know how Beth, Dave, Jug and others in the family were very vocal when Natalee went missing.  Very much into searching for her and ready to expose what they went through in Aruba and the mess that was going on.  Here is the question.  Do you think that if there was any chance that Natalee was in that trap that the family would be so quiet?  We have heard nothing from the family.  I personally think that in all this turmoil about the crab trap I would take my cues from the family.  They do know more than us and yes they do know more than Kermit.

Yes, I think they DO have reasonto be quiet about it. You can't keep "tipping your hand" before you nail the perps.

Who do you think are the perps here?  Kyle, Silvetti, Aruba? 

[Keepthefaith]

I have a question for everyone to ponder.  We all know how Beth, Dave, Jug and others in the family were very vocal when Natalee went missing.  Very much into searching for her and ready to expose what they went through in Aruba and the mess that was going on.  Here is the question.  Do you think that if there was any chance that Natalee was in that trap that the family would be so quiet?  We have heard nothing from the family.  I personally think that in all this turmoil about the crab trap I would take my cues from the family.  They do know more than us and yes they do know more than Kermit.

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some justice!

At who's request?

Did i read that letter from Jen incorrectly?Kermit made this information public at Beth Holloway's request!Correct?Monkey's.

[Tamikosmom]

I have a question for everyone to ponder.  We all know how Beth, Dave, Jug and others in the family were very vocal when Natalee went missing.  Very much into searching for her and ready to expose what they went through in Aruba and the mess that was going on.  Here is the question.  Do you think that if there was any chance that Natalee was in that trap that the family would be so quiet?  We have heard nothing from the family.  I personally think that in all this turmoil about the crab trap I would take my cues from the family.  They do know more than us and yes they do know more than Kermit.

Casa ... if the family believes Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the happenings on board the Persistence ... happenings that had everything to do with John Silvetti's bowing to his own self-interests and ... assisting the ALE in the finale' to the great Aruban coverup ... then I have to believe that there is something in the works behind scenes.

Beth Holloway gave the Natalee's Freebirds permission to expose the words the Kyle Kingman posted on their private site and ... that is exactly what Kermit did.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further.  After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle:    John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

[Tamikosmom]

I have a question for everyone to ponder.  We all know how Beth, Dave, Jug and others in the family were very vocal when Natalee went missing.  Very much into searching for her and ready to expose what they went through in Aruba and the mess that was going on.  Here is the question.  Do you think that if there was any chance that Natalee was in that trap that the family would be so quiet?  We have heard nothing from the family.  I personally think that in all this turmoil about the crab trap I would take my cues from the family.  They do know more than us and yes they do know more than Kermit.

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some justice!

At who's request?

Did i read that letter from Jen incorrectly?Kermit made this information public at Beth Holloway's request!Correct?Monkey's.

Correct Keepthefaith.

Janet

[casa]

I have a question for everyone to ponder.  We all know how Beth, Dave, Jug and others in the family were very vocal when Natalee went missing.  Very much into searching for her and ready to expose what they went through in Aruba and the mess that was going on.  Here is the question.  Do you think that if there was any chance that Natalee was in that trap that the family would be so quiet?  We have heard nothing from the family.  I personally think that in all this turmoil about the crab trap I would take my cues from the family.  They do know more than us and yes they do know more than Kermit.

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some justice!

At who's request?

So I am supposing you are saying that Beth gave Kermit permission to post this information.  I am assuming that is the reason for what you quoted.  Has anyone heard this directly from Beth or are we just going on what others have said?  I respect everyone having his or her own opinion, but until I hear it from someone in the family from their mouths I choose to be skeptical.  There have been too many people supposedly speaking for the family.

[Keepthefaith]

I have a question for everyone to ponder.  We all know how Beth, Dave, Jug and others in the family were very vocal when Natalee went missing.  Very much into searching for her and ready to expose what they went through in Aruba and the mess that was going on.  Here is the question.  Do you think that if there was any chance that Natalee was in that trap that the family would be so quiet?  We have heard nothing from the family.  I personally think that in all this turmoil about the crab trap I would take my cues from the family.  They do know more than us and yes they do know more than Kermit.

Casa ... if the family believes Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the happenings on board the Persistence ... happenings that had everything to do with John Silvetti's bowing to his own self-interests and ... assisting the ALE in the finale' to the great Aruban coverup ... then I have to believe that there is something in the works behind scenes.

Beth Holloway gave the Natalee's Freebirds permission to expose the words the Kyle Kingman posted on their private site and ... that is exactly what Kermit did.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further.  After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle:    John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Your absolutely right Janet but it seems they continue to leave that FACT OUT.

"Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation)."

Who gave Kermit permission?Beth Holloway.

[San]

I have a question for everyone to ponder.  We all know how Beth, Dave, Jug and others in the family were very vocal when Natalee went missing.  Very much into searching for her and ready to expose what they went through in Aruba and the mess that was going on.  Here is the question.  Do you think that if there was any chance that Natalee was in that trap that the family would be so quiet?  We have heard nothing from the family.  I personally think that in all this turmoil about the crab trap I would take my cues from the family.  They do know more than us and yes they do know more than Kermit.

Is this going to start another Kermit debate.  The family knows more than HotShot, CAPS, and others who are working behind the scenes to discredit Kermit.

[Tamikosmom]

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
 
At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.

Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator
Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

[casa]

Beth nor anyone else in the family has come out and accused Kyle, Silvetti or anyone else of any wrong doing.  They have not said that they believe that Natalee was in that trap.  I am just stating until I hear it from one of them I will be skeptical.  I am very suspicious of anyone who speaks for the family when the family is silent.

[wreck]

I have a question for everyone to ponder.  We all know how Beth, Dave, Jug and others in the family were very vocal when Natalee went missing.  Very much into searching for her and ready to expose what they went through in Aruba and the mess that was going on.  Here is the question.  Do you think that if there was any chance that Natalee was in that trap that the family would be so quiet?  We have heard nothing from the family.  I personally think that in all this turmoil about the crab trap I would take my cues from the family.  They do know more than us and yes they do know more than Kermit.

Yes, I think they DO have reasonto be quiet about it. You can't keep "tipping your hand" before you nail the perps.

Who do you think are the perps here?  Kyle, Silvetti, Aruba? 

Joran, first and foremost. Aruba, second -- for the cover-up. The Persistence crew - after the fact.

[San]

HERE IS MY QUESTION.  WHY ARE PEOPLE SO BENT ON DISCREDITING KERMIT.  WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING KERMIT IS LYING.

POST THE DAMN PROOF.

I DON'T WANT TO HERE WELL I TALKED TO THIS PERSON AND THEY SAID THIS.  TELL THE PERSON TO POST JUST LIKE KERMIT POSTS AND BACKS UP WHAT SHE POSTS.

[Keepthefaith]

HERE IS MY QUESTION.  WHY ARE PEOPLE SO BENT ON DISCREDITING KERMIT.  WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING KERMIT IS LYING.

POST THE DAMN PROOF.

I DON'T WANT TO HERE WELL I TALKED TO THIS PERSON AND THEY SAID THIS.  TELL THE PERSON TO POST JUST LIKE KERMIT POSTS AND BACKS UP WHAT SHE POSTS.

We're all here to discuss these matters with Kyle(OE),as well as Caps if they'd like to CHAT.Have a feeling they won't be coming out of there private confine's...

[casa]

I have a question for everyone to ponder.  We all know how Beth, Dave, Jug and others in the family were very vocal when Natalee went missing.  Very much into searching for her and ready to expose what they went through in Aruba and the mess that was going on.  Here is the question.  Do you think that if there was any chance that Natalee was in that trap that the family would be so quiet?  We have heard nothing from the family.  I personally think that in all this turmoil about the crab trap I would take my cues from the family.  They do know more than us and yes they do know more than Kermit.

Is this going to start another Kermit debate.  The family knows more than HotShot, CAPS, and others who are working behind the scenes to discredit Kermit.

I have no desire to start another Kermit debate.  I agree that the family knows more than Hotshot, CAPS and others.  I also believe that the family knows more than Kermit.  I was stating my opinion and I do realize that it may not be the same as those remaining on the Natalee thread but I thought we were all still entitled to our opinion. 

[Tamikosmom]

HERE IS MY QUESTION.  WHY ARE PEOPLE SO BENT ON DISCREDITING KERMIT.  WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING KERMIT IS LYING.

POST THE DAMN PROOF.

I DON'T WANT TO HERE WELL I TALKED TO THIS PERSON AND THEY SAID THIS.  TELL THE PERSON TO POST JUST LIKE KERMIT POSTS AND BACKS UP WHAT SHE POSTS.

Thanks you San.

My thoughts exactly.

Janet

[San]

HERE IS MY QUESTION.  WHY ARE PEOPLE SO BENT ON DISCREDITING KERMIT.  WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING KERMIT IS LYING.

POST THE DAMN PROOF.

I DON'T WANT TO HERE WELL I TALKED TO THIS PERSON AND THEY SAID THIS.  TELL THE PERSON TO POST JUST LIKE KERMIT POSTS AND BACKS UP WHAT SHE POSTS.

We're all here to discuss these matters with Kyle(OE),as well as Caps if they'd like to CHAT.Have a feeling they won't be coming out of there private confine's...

Kyle likes to hide in his little hidey hole and tell others what to do.

He is the one who made the mistake and opened his big mouth for everyone to see.

And he is still making the same mistake.

[Keepthefaith]

Where's the Persistence from?

[Keepthefaith]

Where's the Persistence from?

Casa?

[casa]

HERE IS MY QUESTION.  WHY ARE PEOPLE SO BENT ON DISCREDITING KERMIT.  WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING KERMIT IS LYING.

POST THE DAMN PROOF.

I DON'T WANT TO HERE WELL I TALKED TO THIS PERSON AND THEY SAID THIS.  TELL THE PERSON TO POST JUST LIKE KERMIT POSTS AND BACKS UP WHAT SHE POSTS.

Excuse me.  I did not say that Kermit is lying.  I said I choose to believe what Natalee's family says and until they say that this is true I will remain skeptical.  I never said anyone said anything.  I stated my opinion and apparently that is not what I am supposed to do.  Im not sure why you are so upset. 

[wreck]

I have a question for everyone to ponder.  We all know how Beth, Dave, Jug and others in the family were very vocal when Natalee went missing.  Very much into searching for her and ready to expose what they went through in Aruba and the mess that was going on.  Here is the question.  Do you think that if there was any chance that Natalee was in that trap that the family would be so quiet?  We have heard nothing from the family.  I personally think that in all this turmoil about the crab trap I would take my cues from the family.  They do know more than us and yes they do know more than Kermit.

Is this going to start another Kermit debate.  The family knows more than HotShot, CAPS, and others who are working behind the scenes to discredit Kermit.

I have no desire to start another Kermit debate.  I agree that the family knows more than Hotshot, CAPS and others.  I also believe that the family knows more than Kermit.  I was stating my opinion and I do realize that it may not be the same as those remaining on the Natalee thread but I thought we were all still entitled to our opinion. 

You are welcome to YOUR own opinion -- I'm just telling you MINE.