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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09 - 1/18/09  (Read 183843 times)
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sharon
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« Reply #640 on: January 17, 2009, 04:11:47 PM »


{snipped}

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »


Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help. They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust. Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time. We've helped each other however and whenever we can. They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right. I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning. Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457;topicseen#msg332457


PRIVATE EYE - IN HIS OWN WORDS

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »


If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy.  The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »


But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that  regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750

Janet

Thanks so much for continuing to bring these 3 critical posts forward.

And I hope you continue to.

Especially when we get told that this is not how the family feels. 

bump
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #641 on: January 17, 2009, 04:14:30 PM »

We are told this is from an email, and it explains what Jug said to someone else about John Silvetti and what Jug knew:


"I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer


Kermit ... who is "I".

I do not have a problem with a venture that is two-fold.  However ... I have a problem that TES was not upfront regarding this dual venture when donations were requested.  At all times the impression was given the the Persistence undertaking was all about searching for Natalee Holloway's remains.

The following words of Tim Miller implies that Louis S. was in on the Natalee Holloway aspect of the venture.  John S. may have initiated it but ... Louis S. was aware.

Janet

++++++

FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007


COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."


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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
iris44
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« Reply #642 on: January 17, 2009, 04:22:10 PM »

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS MIND

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  Everytime I read that heading in Janet's posts I mentally picture it changed into that.  Everytime I read Kyle's "own words" I believe them less and less.

Disclaimer: This was not an attempt to discredit Kermit.
Disclaimer: This was not an attempt to upset Janet.  She seems like a great person.
Disclaimer: This poster is not associated with anyone.
Disclaimer: This is not an attempt to get KTF to tell Janet how logical she is.

And you actually call other posters 'snarky'

 

I agree.  This was an attempt at all of the above.  But as I sit here and post am I bashing iris.  Iris disagrees with the people that I agree with.

I apologize if I offended anyone.  The disclaimers were my feeble attempt at humor.  I will no longer be bothering any of you by my postings.  I guess you all know what is going on and I don't, so best wishes and I hope all your Persistance conspiracy theory pans out.
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Anna
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« Reply #643 on: January 17, 2009, 04:23:38 PM »

O/T

Elderly couple disappear from cruise ship

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28704127/?ocid=MSNToolbar130

It has become a matter of taking your life in your own hands to even go on a cruise any more.  I have done so in the past but would be afraid to now.  Too many strange things happen.  People get on but the don't get off.
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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Anna
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« Reply #644 on: January 17, 2009, 04:29:59 PM »

There is nothing to "pan out" with anything that I personally have commented on.

It is a fact that ALE and only ALE had access to the contents of the trap, at least legally. 

No conspiracy theory to it as all seem in agreement that only ALE took samples, diving from and returning to their own boat.

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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Anna
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« Reply #645 on: January 17, 2009, 04:33:49 PM »

Even Hans Mos said the samples were retrieved by polis divers.

That is a fact as all involved say this was the case.

ALE has had a history in this investigation of causing evidence to disappear or totally disregarding it.

Where is the conspiracy?
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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Blue Moon
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« Reply #646 on: January 17, 2009, 04:36:51 PM »

Even Hans Mos said the samples were retrieved by polis divers.

That is a fact as all involved say this was the case.

ALE has had a history in this investigation of causing evidence to disappear or totally disregarding it.

Where is the conspiracy?

My point also Anna.  NOT a conspiracy, but very likely CRIMINAL what took place on that ship no matter whose remains were in the cage.
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
iris44
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« Reply #647 on: January 17, 2009, 05:16:20 PM »

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS MIND

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  Everytime I read that heading in Janet's posts I mentally picture it changed into that.  Everytime I read Kyle's "own words" I believe them less and less.

Disclaimer: This was not an attempt to discredit Kermit.
Disclaimer: This was not an attempt to upset Janet.  She seems like a great person.
Disclaimer: This poster is not associated with anyone.
Disclaimer: This is not an attempt to get KTF to tell Janet how logical she is.


Good Morning Iris.

Hey ... you have never answered my question.  Do you have any personal connection to John Silvetti ... direct or indirect?

Thanks Iris.

Casa has conceded that she does have an indirect connection and ... that indirect connection has convinced her that John Silvetti's motives in regard to the Persistence undertaking are above reproach..

Janet

+++++++


casa
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #238 on: November 22, 2008, 02:30:48 AM »


Ok Im going to say this one time and I will be done.  There is someone very close to my family who knows John Silvetti and knew him way before Natalee went missing.  This man is a class act.  He went into this to find Natalee and help her family.  He is in NO way a part of a coverup! It is an insult to this man to even suggest that he is a part of a cover up.  You who beliive this should be ashamed.   You all can choose to believe what you want and you can choose to blindly follow anyone you want but it does not change the FACTS.  I am just sorry that people choose to follow someone who does not even know this man and who in my opinion says things to draw attention to himself.  Sadly theer have been way too many people who have claimed to know stuff who don't have a clue!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg553060#msg553060


Hi Janet,

I have no connection to Silvetti or anyone else associated with Natalee's disappearance.  I am a CPA and Certified Fraud Examiner, but not a detective, LE or anything.  The fraud examinations I do are financial, but I have become fairly adept at noticing when something is not quite right, or at it appears to be.  I have also come across a fair amount of people who lie to further their own agendas. It seems that my skill set is not appreciated nor welcome at SM, so off I go. Take care.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #648 on: January 17, 2009, 05:19:25 PM »

1.  At no time did Kyle Kingman in his postings on forums or his blog ... imply that the Persistence undertaking was anything but a search for Natalee Holloway's remains.

2.  At no time did Tim Miller in talk show interviews ever give the impression that the Persistence undertaking was anything but a search for Natalee Holloway's remains.

3.  At no time did Louis Schafer in talk show interviews ever give the impression that the Persistence undertaking was anything but a search for Natalee Holloway's remains.

3.  At no Time did Tim Trahan in talk show interviews ever give the impression that the Persistence undertaking was anything but a search for Natalee Holloway's remains.

If the words Jug Twitty words reveal the truth ... the implication is that there needs to be an official investigation by the "powers that be" in the United States regarding the outreach for donations to fund the Persistence undertaking.  If an oil mapping venture were to only include a "lookout" for something suspcious that could be Natalee Holloway related ... donors should have been made aware.

Considering the names "Tim Miller" and "TES" gave credibility to the donation outreach ... I do believe that Tim Miller's trusting nature and good reputation was taken advantage of.  In other words ... I am beginning to suspect Tim and his organization were used as a means to collect funds to finance an oil mapping venture.

 

Janet

++++++


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
« Reply #604 on: Today at 05:51:26 PM »


We are told this is from an email, and it explains what Jug said to someone else about John Silvetti and what Jug knew:

"I asked Jug about Schaeffer ... he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped .... while they were looking ... the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.  They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4371.msg631525#msg631525


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS.

Kyle said: June 29, 2008: I'm curious if the birds connects the dots and figures out what John will do before he knows what he's doing. Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out. I'll be at his house in about 5-6 hours.


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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
johan555
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hay welkom here !!!


« Reply #649 on: January 17, 2009, 05:26:38 PM »

Good Morning/Afternoon Kermit! Have Ya got any uplifting News or Tidbits that You can share with Us? PLease....give Us something to lift Our spirits in regards to the case.....that is if You can......

Hello Hotping,

When the time is right I will.




Thank You......Just those seven little words....are encouraging!   

Beth KNOWS what I have been working on.
And I know exactly what Beth wants.

Everyone who wants to doubt or believe whatever someone else is telling them are free to do so.

Those individuals who want to call me names, be insidious will continue to do so, but it won't stop
the good people from bringing the truth out and expose the Aruba cover-up.
I believe the monkeys stand together!





Do you have contact with Peter rd Vries Kermit ?
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #650 on: January 17, 2009, 05:31:29 PM »

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS MIND

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  Everytime I read that heading in Janet's posts I mentally picture it changed into that.  Everytime I read Kyle's "own words" I believe them less and less.

Disclaimer: This was not an attempt to discredit Kermit.
Disclaimer: This was not an attempt to upset Janet.  She seems like a great person.
Disclaimer: This poster is not associated with anyone.
Disclaimer: This is not an attempt to get KTF to tell Janet how logical she is.


Good Morning Iris.

Hey ... you have never answered my question.  Do you have any personal connection to John Silvetti ... direct or indirect?

Thanks Iris.

Casa has conceded that she does have an indirect connection and ... that indirect connection has convinced her that John Silvetti's motives in regard to the Persistence undertaking are above reproach..

Janet

+++++++


casa
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #238 on: November 22, 2008, 02:30:48 AM »


Ok Im going to say this one time and I will be done.  There is someone very close to my family who knows John Silvetti and knew him way before Natalee went missing.  This man is a class act.  He went into this to find Natalee and help her family.  He is in NO way a part of a coverup! It is an insult to this man to even suggest that he is a part of a cover up.  You who beliive this should be ashamed.   You all can choose to believe what you want and you can choose to blindly follow anyone you want but it does not change the FACTS.  I am just sorry that people choose to follow someone who does not even know this man and who in my opinion says things to draw attention to himself.  Sadly theer have been way too many people who have claimed to know stuff who don't have a clue!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg553060#msg553060


Hi Janet,

I have no connection to Silvetti or anyone else associated with Natalee's disappearance.  I am a CPA and Certified Fraud Examiner, but not a detective, LE or anything.  The fraud examinations I do are financial, but I have become fairly adept at noticing when something is not quite right, or at it appears to be.  I have also come across a fair amount of people who lie to further their own agendas. It seems that my skill set is not appreciated nor welcome at SM, so off I go. Take care.

Thank you for responding.

Iris ... respectfully agreeing to disagree is where it is at.

If Kyle Kingman has revealed the truth in his posts submitted to the Natalee's Freebirds' forum ... the implication is that the opportunity to return Natalee Holloway's remains to her family to rest on American soil was lost forever.  In the name of justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family ... I will explore this issue until confirmation is forthcoming.

Iris ... keep an open mind.  Think about it.  After carefully consideration ... Beth Holloway gave the Natalee's Freebird's permission to expose Kyle's own words.  Judging from the past almost four years ... Beth Holloway does not react without a foundation to derive from.  I do not think for one moment that this amazing woman would allow John Silvetti's reputation to come under scrutiny if there were not probably cause.

Janet
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 06:15:10 PM by klaasend » Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #651 on: January 17, 2009, 05:33:47 PM »


Janet

Thanks so much for continuing to bring these 3 critical posts forward.

And I hope you continue to.

Especially when we get told that this is not how the family feels. 

Thank you Sharon.

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #652 on: January 17, 2009, 05:37:40 PM »

Nuuuut.  It is me again.

Would you please edit my above post.  It is such an important little word.

Beth Holloway does not react without a foundation ...

Thanks

Janet

FIXED (klaasend)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 06:15:40 PM by klaasend » Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #653 on: January 17, 2009, 05:45:06 PM »

Hi Blue Moon.

Just you and me.

I hope you are having a good day.

Well ... off to supervise a move all the Christmas bins from the guest room to the storage space.  Youngest son and hubby are about to begin this task.

Janet

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #654 on: January 17, 2009, 05:52:44 PM »

Hi Blue Moon.

Just you and me.

I hope you are having a good day.

Well ... off to supervise a move all the Christmas bins from the guest room to the storage space.  Youngest son and hubby are about to begin this task.

Janet



See ya.  I am about to log off for a while also.  Have some things I really need to accomplish today.
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
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« Reply #655 on: January 17, 2009, 06:11:38 PM »

Kermit,

Jan says Eduardo Mansur was not on the ship.  Hotshot says that Jossy says he was on the ship the entire time.

Do you know if he was?

Thanks.

Looked like him to me in that picture that someone posted at SM.

Plus, I know that Kyle trusted Eduardo.



IMO this is Eduardo Mansur
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« Reply #656 on: January 17, 2009, 06:40:15 PM »

Blonde,

That does appear to be Eduardo.  I still wish Dana would have Jossy and Eduardo on one of his shows and ask them about the time Eduardo spent on the Persistence as well as some of the other search operations Eduardo took part in before the Persistence arrived.
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« Reply #657 on: January 17, 2009, 06:49:31 PM »

Jossy talked for a long time about doing his own ocean
search for Natalee.
Then all of a sudden Scheffer and Silvetti come on the scene,
and Jossy says no more about his search.
Now we hear that Jossy and Silvetti are busness associates.
Could it have been Jossy that arranged the contact between
Dave Holloway and Silvetti/Scheffer with a dual purpose in mind?
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« Reply #658 on: January 17, 2009, 07:00:36 PM »

Jossy talked for a long time about doing his own ocean
search for Natalee.
Then all of a sudden Scheffer and Silvetti come on the scene,
and Jossy says no more about his search.
Now we hear that Jossy and Silvetti are busness associates.
Could it have been Jossy that arranged the contact between
Dave Holloway and Silvetti/Scheffer with a dual purpose in mind?

I guess it is possible that Jossy coordinated the introductions.  That would really make things interesting if that were the case.  I wonder if there is any way to tie Jossy to that search from a financial perpective???
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« Reply #659 on: January 17, 2009, 07:06:56 PM »

You have to ask just how much Jug is clued-in by Beth -- they ARE divorced. I have liked Jug -- but you gotta ask!

lol

I tried that once. 

My advice -- DON'T go there 

Sharon, do you know who put Schaffer in touch with the family?
Tim Miller     You going to bash him too?  Why not just let Kermit run the cage if she's so good. You guys are funny, you look at her like she's G-d or something.  Listen to yourselves.
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