Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09 - 1/18/09

[Blue Moon]

You have to ask just how much Jug is clued-in by Beth -- they ARE divorced. I have liked Jug -- but you gotta ask!

lol

I tried that once. 

My advice -- DON'T go there 

Sharon, do you know who put Schaffer in touch with the family?

Tim Miller     You going to bash him too?  Why not just let Kermit run the cage if she's so good. You guys are funny, you look at her like she's G-d or something.  Listen to yourselves.

I WASN'T BASHING ANYONE.  You got a problem?  Take it elsewhere.  Besides, I thought the answer was going to be YOU!

[Tamikosmom]

You have to ask just how much Jug is clued-in by Beth -- they ARE divorced. I have liked Jug -- but you gotta ask!

lol

I tried that once. 

My advice -- DON'T go there 

Sharon, do you know who put Schaffer in touch with the family?

Tim Miller     You going to bash him too?  Why not just let Kermit run the cage if she's so good. You guys are funny, you look at her like she's G-d or something.  Listen to yourselves.

No me!!  As some have discussed on another forum... the thought that Tim Miller would be collaborating with Schaffer in a fund raising scheme to raise funds to benefit an oil mapping venture as well as the TES organization under the guise of search for Natalee Holloway's remains is too much for me to comprehend.

I am inclined to believe that Tim Miller was deceived by Shaefer into believing the Persistence undertaking was not twofold ... it was all about searching for Natalee Holloway remains.  My heart tells me that TES would not be knowingly soliciting funds for Louis Shaefer oil mapping venture ... a venture that would be on the "lookout" for something Natalee Holloway related ... without providing full disclosure to potential donors.

Janet

[klaasend]

Hotshot - the only thing close to bashing here is our opinion of Kyle who by all accounts at minimum was BSing about the trap and at most complicit in a coverup.

Prove to us it's neither because Kyle's words say otherwise but I'm open to all sides.

[Blue Moon]

Hotshot, I ask questions because I don't have ALL the answers.  I do not know anyone personally in this case.  I have the greatest respect for Tim Miller.  I did not know he put Shaeffer in touch with family. 

If Klaas or Red feels I shouldn't be asking questions I would hope they tell me that upfront.

Blue Moon

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas ... please edit my last post.

have discussed on another forum ...

Thank you.

Janet

[sharon]

Hotshot, I ask questions because I don't have ALL the answers.  I do not know anyone personally in this case.  I have the greatest respect for Tim Miller.  I did not know he put Shaeffer in touch with family. 

If Klaas or Red feels I shouldn't be asking questions I would hope they tell me that upfront.

Blue Moon

Which just BEGS the question -- and how did Schaeffar and Tim hook up?

Inquiring minds want to know.   

[Tamikosmom]

Hotshot, I ask questions because I don't have ALL the answers.  I do not know anyone personally in this case.  I have the greatest respect for Tim Miller.  I did not know he put Shaeffer in touch with family. 

If Klaas or Red feels I shouldn't be asking questions I would hope they tell me that upfront.

Blue Moon

Quote from: Kermit on Today at 05:51:26 PM
We are told this is from an email, and it explains what Jug said to someone else about John Silvetti and what Jug knew:


"I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer



Kermit ... who is "I".

I do not have a problem with a venture that is two-fold.  However ... I have a problem that TES was not upfront regarding this dual venture when donations were requested.  At all times the impression was given the the Persistence undertaking was all about searching for Natalee Holloway's remains.

The following words of Tim Miller implies that Louis S. was in on the Natalee Holloway aspect of the venture.  John S. may have initiated it but ... Louis S. was aware.

Janet

++++++

FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."

[Blue Moon]

Hotshot, I ask questions because I don't have ALL the answers.  I do not know anyone personally in this case.  I have the greatest respect for Tim Miller.  I did not know he put Shaeffer in touch with family. 

If Klaas or Red feels I shouldn't be asking questions I would hope they tell me that upfront.

Blue Moon

Which just BEGS the question -- and how did Schaeffar and Tim hook up?

Inquiring minds want to know.   

Inquiring minds means you are bashing.  Go figure. 

I have LOTS of questions about this venture and I have lots of questions about the mansurs of Aruba.   See my signature line about asking questions.  I won't be deterred from asking and I hope Hotshot will provide all the answers.  All I am asking.

[wreck]

Gads! Someone mentioned that Lewis Black was doing Aruba ads. This was on my Yahoo mail page today!

[Tamikosmom]

Hotshot, I ask questions because I don't have ALL the answers.  I do not know anyone personally in this case.  I have the greatest respect for Tim Miller.  I did not know he put Shaeffer in touch with family. 

If Klaas or Red feels I shouldn't be asking questions I would hope they tell me that upfront.

Blue Moon

FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."

[Blue Moon]

Gads! Someone mentioned that Lewis Black was doing Aruba ads. This was on my Yahoo mail page today!

"The grumpiest man in America", that will win them a bunch of tourists for sure.  (who is Lewis Black?)

[Tamikosmom]

Hotshot, I ask questions because I don't have ALL the answers.  I do not know anyone personally in this case.  I have the greatest respect for Tim Miller.  I did not know he put Shaeffer in touch with family. 

If Klaas or Red feels I shouldn't be asking questions I would hope they tell me that upfront.

Blue Moon

Which just BEGS the question -- and how did Schaeffar and Tim hook up?

Inquiring minds want to know.   

I wondered that too Sharon.

I pray that it was Louis Shaefer who contacted Tim Miller implying that he would be willing to conduct a search for Natalee Holloway's remains if Tim Miller could raise the funds through the TES organization.  I pray that Tim Miller was unaware that the undertaking would include mapping for oil targets.

At this point in time ... I refuse to believe otherwise.

Louis Shaefer has been referred to as a philanthropist and ... that is why I initially believe that the Persistence undertaking was a mission of the heart.

Janet

[wreck]

"90,000 friends you haven't met yet and 9,000 rapists, murderers, thieves, and liars to ensure you don't go home relaxed (if you make it home at all)"

[sharon]

Janet, if Tim initiated contact I would only believe it was because he believed Scaheffer could help. Tim had been looking for all the help he could get to search the ocean -- for quite some time.

imo, Tim Miller would not have the capacity to perceive otherwise. His heart is too good.

imo

[bc73]

"90,000 friends you haven't met yet and 9,000 rapists, murderers, thieves, and liars to ensure you don't go home relaxed (if you make it home at all)"

Does that leave us with 81,000 kidnappers?

[sharon]

Janet (I wish I had that edit button, too)

I forgot to add -- I believe it was WhiskeyGirl who posted a bunch of Silvetti's prior philanthropic efforts.

iirc -- nothing in the same ballpark -- that I remember. But I could be remembering incorrectly. :shrug:
.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet, if Tim initiated contact I would only believe it was because he believed Scaheffer could help. Tim had been looking for all the help he could get to search the ocean -- for quite some time.

imo, Tim Miller would not have the capacity to perceive otherwise. His heart is too good.

imo

Sharon ... that is my hope and prayer.

I am of the opinion that Tim's trusting nature implies that decernment in regards to relationship can be compromised.  I believe that Dave Holloway fits into this category.  Hey ... I believe that ... to some extent ... my hubby fits into this category.  However ... he has me to set him straight.

 

It is sad.  The outcome of not have the ability to decern the "good guys" from the "bad guys" can have serious and lasting consequences.

Janet

[Blue Moon]

Ya know, I am getting to the point of throwing up my hands.  No matter what is said someone comes in here and throws out the "bashing" phrase and then they run and hide.  Just spill it all and get it over with.

Hotshot said to "just look at us" for believing Kermit.  I would like to hear from Hotshot about this entire Persistence search trip.  Also, Kyle needs to come out of hiding and face his demons.  I also would like to hear from Jossy and Eduardo and I also wish that Dana could get them both on so we can hear their take on all this since Eduardo was on the ship the entire time.  Who knows, it could help to clear some things up.  (JMO)

[Tamikosmom]

Sharon

This is an example of what I am referring to concerning discernment regarding relationships ... decernment regarding who are the "good guys" and who are the "bad guys".

Why would Dave Holloway believe that the Aruban Hotel Association would contribute financially to an endeavor to locate his daughter's remains.  This Association is perceived to be a participant in the coverup that has prevented justice from prevailing for an eighteen year old citizen since the get go.

Logic dictates if the Aruban Hotel Association ... the enemy ... donated funds to the Persistence endeavor ... there was a cost to John Silvetti and ... that cost had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway.

Janet

++++++


jdsurveyor1 Newbie Posts: 11
John Silvetti, the Persistence and the Search for Natalee «
Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 07:52:13 PM »

The important thing is to raise funds. It will require corporate support as well as private donations. Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount. So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world. The media really blew the cage out of proportion. Although the cage initially provided some moments of "what is in there", I warned all on board that none of this information was to leave the boat. It was very suspect that a cage of this size was found where it was on the seafloor relative to the coast. My feelings were this was highly unusual and probably had something to do with something, but not what we were after. It was decided that the cage would be investigated further by divers, however, it was designated as only a target of interest. The crew moved onto other targets. Unfortunately, inexperience and frustration led to premature statements, including that we had found herI don't think anyone was more upset than I that this information came off the boat and caused the Holloway family more grief!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4371.msg625934#msg625934

[wreck]

Ya know, I am getting to the point of throwing up my hands.  No matter what is said someone comes in here and throws out the "bashing" phrase and then they run and hide.  Just spill it all and get it over with.

Hotshot said to "just look at us" for believing Kermit.  I would like to hear from Hotshot about this entire Persistence search trip.  Also, Kyle needs to come out of hiding and face his demons.  I also would like to hear from Jossy and Eduardo and I also wish that Dana could get them both on so we can hear their take on all this since Eduardo was on the ship the entire time.  Who knows, it could help to clear some things up.  (JMO)

With the insinuations here, you would THINK Silvetti and Kyle would be screaming to holy hell if they were innocent.