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Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09 - 1/18/09
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Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09 - 1/18/09 (Read 183854 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Keepthefaith
Monkey All Star Jr.
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Posts: 8156
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #960 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:16:13 PM »
Did HotShot ask Kyle to post those photos?Liscensing agreement?Just asking?
Logged
"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."
MOHANDAS GANDHI
klaasend
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #961 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:18:26 PM »
Quote from: SuzieQ on January 18, 2009, 10:10:16 PM
Quote from: Blue Moon on January 18, 2009, 10:06:54 PM
Thanks SusieQ, that was an interesting read.
I thought so too. Did you catch where she was telling Beth about all SHE had to do at the travel show? And who is CJ1?
Long story but CJ was another SM member who went to the Boston Travel show with Hotshot and ******* and others. Some of them got angry with Hotshot.
Logged
hotping
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 3747
All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #962 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:18:45 PM »
Quote from: Keepthefaith on January 18, 2009, 10:16:13 PM
Did HotShot ask Kyle to post those photos?Liscensing agreement?Just asking?
Oh I'm sure She did....
Logged
In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
klaasend
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #963 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:19:24 PM »
Quote from: Keepthefaith on January 18, 2009, 10:16:13 PM
Did HotShot ask Kyle to post those photos?Liscensing agreement?Just asking?
Good questions, LOL
Logged
texasmom
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Posts: 32402
ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #964 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:19:54 PM »
Quote from: hotping on January 18, 2009, 10:18:45 PM
Quote from: Keepthefaith on January 18, 2009, 10:16:13 PM
Did HotShot ask Kyle to post those photos?Liscensing agreement?Just asking?
Oh I'm sure She did....
Logged
I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.
"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.
Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
WhiskeyGirl
Monkey All Star Jr.
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Posts: 7754
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #965 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:21:39 PM »
Quote from: Tamikosmom on January 18, 2009, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: Keepthefaith on January 18, 2009, 09:26:32 PM
Quote from: WhiskeyGirl on January 18, 2009, 09:24:19 PM
I believe there are many sides to any coin...
I also recall reading an email Kermit posted from Kyle, indicating that some of Kyles posts may have been taken out of context.
Since I was not involved in the secret forum, I don't know what the actual flow of conversation was...
What is an 'opinion'? Educated guess? Uneducated guess? Best guess? 100% accurate 100% of the time?
jmho
If i;m readin this right.You believe Kermit has taken some of Kyle's words out of context?Correct me if i'm wrong.
Hey ... th Natalee's Freebirds' would not be in contact with Beth Holloway in regards to Kyle Kingman's own words if those words could not be backed up in a factual way ... backed up through an IP number.
Janet
++++++
klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »
Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:
Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us. During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help. He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents. Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family.
This was March 18, 2008. At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
We later found that to be false.
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.
We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage. Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
We later found out that never happened.
At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
Regards,
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator
Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349
Janet,
I was thinking about this post by Kermit -
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg592482;topicseen#msg592482
Quote from: kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
« Reply #540 on: December 19, 2008, 02:15:18 PM »
Kyle sent me this today
Kermit,
You and the others agreed to a statement of confidentiality and nondisclosure at FB. Before I posted any information, I posted a copyright notice at the very start which disallowed ANY and ALL of my posts, intellectual property, or pictures to leave the spot they were posted. Everyone, including yourself, acknowledged this affirmatively. A lawyer said that ownership of that posted material cannot be transferred by a general claim of copyright such as a claim made on the front page of a website, or even by verbal consent. Written agreement, meaning a signed agreement, is required for the post to be owned by the site owner. Without a signed agreement, the poster owns the post. I did not give you permission, which I have stated many times when you were in violation. While the rest agreed, you violated this legal agreement repeatedly. You have taken many of my posts, snipped what you wanted to put them into your context, and then shared them in a public forum. The "public domain" notion only applies where someone has copyright ownership over the work in the first case and that ownership has lapsed. In that case, all posts can be freely reproduced by anyone, anywhere, without violating copyright law. However, this is clearly not the case.
I will state this with absolute clarity so there is no misunderstanding:
I have confirmed with the FBI on multiple instances that they have had possession of the ROV videos since very early on. I personally didn't send the ROV footage to them because another project lead had already at the first opportunity while we were still in Aruba. I sent all of the ROV screen shots directly to the FBI the day they were acquired. I also got confirmation back in February by Tim Trahan who was in constant contact with Beth during the search that she indeed had all the information including the statements and has seen the ROV videos. I personally confirmed all of this with the senior FBI agent in charge of the investigation as well as given him my personal account of all that I witnessed and knew. They have this on record. Birmingham is not the office in charge.
The information you have been spreading is not only inaccurate and a violation of a non-disclosure, it is slanderous and spreading misinformation. The damage it has done to my professional relationship with J. Silvetti is incalculable which has a direct effect on my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter named after Natalee.
I have neither publicly responded to your provocative antics, or retaliated with personal attacks in response to yours. I also have never threatened you as you publicly claimed.
I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited. I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet. Kermit doesn't matter".
So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case. I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.
Sincerely,
Kyle
From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660
From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660
Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120
IMHO 'context' may be subject to the view point of the reader.
Are those Kyles words?
What was the flow of discussion? What question was Kyle answering? What was the topic of conversation? Brainstorming? Intended or not intended to be fact? Words offered as a best guess?
I just don't know the 'context' of what Kyle was communicating. I may or may not believe they are Kyle's words, not for me to decide with my limited information. I DO NOT know the story he was trying to communicate. I can only guess at the story Kermit was trying to tell.
I choose to believe the truth is still out there in the watery grave around Aruba.
just my humble opinions
Logged
All my posts are just my humble opinions. Please take with a grain of salt.
It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
texasmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 32402
ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #966 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:22:20 PM »
I think I may need a glass of water now!
Logged
I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.
"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.
Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
klaasend
Administrator
Monkey Mega Star
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Posts: 74276
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #967 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:22:43 PM »
Quote from: Tamikosmom on January 18, 2009, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: hotping on January 18, 2009, 10:05:52 PM
Quote from: Tamikosmom on January 18, 2009, 10:02:42 PM
I need to get a glass of water. I cannot stop laughing.
Later, Janet
Uncontrollable laughing and Water will make You pee Your pants.....
Just kidding!
I did not pee my pants but ... I spit water all over the sink. I have not laughed so hard in a long time. My hubby just looked at me sadly and shook his head.
Janet
I guess telling your husband that Hotshot is playing both sides of the coins won't help, huh?
Logged
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 37229
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #968 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:24:01 PM »
Quote from: klaasend on January 18, 2009, 10:22:43 PM
Quote from: Tamikosmom on January 18, 2009, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: hotping on January 18, 2009, 10:05:52 PM
Quote from: Tamikosmom on January 18, 2009, 10:02:42 PM
I need to get a glass of water. I cannot stop laughing.
Later, Janet
Uncontrollable laughing and Water will make You pee Your pants.....
Just kidding!
I did not pee my pants but ... I spit water all over the sink. I have not laughed so hard in a long time. My hubby just looked at me sadly and shook his head.
Janet
I guess telling your husband that Hotshot is playing both sides of the coins won't help, huh?
Nope!!
Janet
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
texasmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 32402
ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #969 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:26:48 PM »
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!!!
Logged
I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.
"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.
Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Blue Moon
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3912
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #970 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:32:10 PM »
Got to say good nite. Another busy week coming up.
Blue Moon
Logged
If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
Keepthefaith
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #971 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:32:27 PM »
WhiskeyGirl
"I choose to believe the truth is still out there in the watery grave around Aruba."
Keepthefaith,
I choose to believe through Kyle's words that we'll never know if Natalee was in the trap/cage due to Silvetti allowing the ALE to remove and leave with the content's of the cage.Guess we'll never know.I have a feeling the Persistence will NEVER go back there to search.I think they already know the answer.JMOO
I STAND WITH THE FROG
KEEPTHEFAITH!
Logged
"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."
MOHANDAS GANDHI
hotping
Monkey Junky
Offline
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All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #972 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:32:53 PM »
Quote from: texasmom on January 18, 2009, 10:22:20 PM
I think I may need a glass of water now!
Or Crown and Coke!
Logged
In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
Keepthefaith
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8156
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #973 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:32:56 PM »
Quote from: Blue Moon on January 18, 2009, 10:32:10 PM
Got to say good nite. Another busy week coming up.
Blue Moon
Good night BlueMoon!
Logged
"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."
MOHANDAS GANDHI
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 37229
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #974 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:35:03 PM »
Quote from: Blue Moon on January 18, 2009, 10:32:10 PM
Got to say good nite. Another busy week coming up.
Blue Moon
Good Night
Blue Moon.
Janet
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
texasmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 32402
ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #975 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:37:04 PM »
Quote from: Blue Moon on January 18, 2009, 10:32:10 PM
Got to say good nite. Another busy week coming up.
Blue Moon
Goodnight Blue Moon! I'm lucky...tomorrow off! Yippppeeeeeeee!
Logged
I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.
"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.
Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 32402
ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #976 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:38:08 PM »
Quote from: hotping on January 18, 2009, 10:32:53 PM
Quote from: texasmom on January 18, 2009, 10:22:20 PM
I think I may need a glass of water now!
Or Crown and Coke!
that could work too!
Logged
I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.
"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.
Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
SuzieQ
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3266
Justice for Natalee
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #977 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:42:52 PM »
Quote from: klaasend on January 18, 2009, 10:18:26 PM
Quote from: SuzieQ on January 18, 2009, 10:10:16 PM
Quote from: Blue Moon on January 18, 2009, 10:06:54 PM
Thanks SusieQ, that was an interesting read.
I thought so too. Did you catch where she was telling Beth about all SHE had to do at the travel show? And who is CJ1?
Long story but CJ was another SM member who went to the Boston Travel show with Hotshot and ******* and others. Some of them got angry with Hotshot.
Thanks Klaas. I took a few months off and missed some things.
But, like everyone else, I couldn't stay away. Don't post much, but read everything.
Logged
2 4 1
hotping
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3747
All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #978 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:43:52 PM »
Quote from: texasmom on January 18, 2009, 10:38:08 PM
Quote from: hotping on January 18, 2009, 10:32:53 PM
Quote from: texasmom on January 18, 2009, 10:22:20 PM
I think I may need a glass of water now!
Or Crown and Coke!
that could work too!
Logged
In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
texasmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 32402
ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09
«
Reply #979 on:
January 18, 2009, 10:44:25 PM »
Quote from: texasmom on January 18, 2009, 10:26:48 PM
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!!!
Logged
I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.
"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.
Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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=> Jodi Arias trial - for the murder of Travis Alexander
=> Trial of George Zimmerman - 2nd Degree Murder of 17yr old Trayvon Martin
=> Scott Peterson Appeal of Murder Conviction
-----------------------------
Missing, Exploited and True Crime
-----------------------------
=> Missing Exploited and True Crime
===> Missing Persons Forum
=====> Missing Found or Presumed Deceased
=====> Missing Found Safe
=====> Missing Endangered Runaways
=====> Resourses, Search Groups and Fundraisers
===> Crimes Against Children, Elderly and the Disabled
===> Crimes of Passion/Anger
===> Serial Killers and Their Possible Victims
===> Unsolved Crimes
=====> Finally Solved
===> Haleigh Marie Cummings - Florida
===> Adji Desir - Florida
===> Somer Renee Thompson 7 yo, Orange Park FL 10/19/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Tracy Ocasio - Orlando/Ocoee, Florida
===> Shaniya Nicole Davis, 5 Fayetteville, NC Missing 11/10/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Holly Bobo, 20yrs old missing Parsons, TN 4/13/11
===> Hailey Dunn - 13yrs old - Colorado City, TX missing 12/27/10 (Body Found)
===> Elizabeth Olten - 9yrs, Jefferson City, MO missing 10/21/09 (BODY FOUND)
===> Lindsey Baum - McCleary, WA 6/26/09
===> Amber Leeanne Dubois 14yrs old - Escondido, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Chelsea King, 17, Missing 2-25-2010 Rancho Bernadino CA (BODY FOUND)
===> Sandra Cantu, 8 years old - Tracy, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Madeleine McCann - Portugal
===> Christine Marie Sheddy - missing since 11/13/2007 - Maryland(BODY FOUND)
===> Nevaeh Amyah Buchanan 5yr Monroe Michigan(BODY FOUND)
===> Gabriel Johnson 8 mo., last seen 12/26/09 Tempe AZ-San Antonio TX
===> Stacy Ann Peterson missing & Kathleen Savio murdered - Illinois
===> Zahra Clare Baker - 10yrs old Hickory, NC (Body Found)
-----------------------------
Natalee Holloway
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Important Case Documents
===> Joran Statements/PV's
===> Paulus Statements/PV's
===> Deepak Statements/PV's
===> Satish Statements/PV's
===> Misc Statements/PV's
=> LCD Archive
=> Shango/Simian and other Codetalkers
-----------------------------
Current Events and Musings
-----------------------------
=> Monkey Musings / Open Discussion
=> Pop Culture Main
===> Hugely Popular TV Shows
===> Movies and Television
===> Social Media
===> Music
===> Books
===> Scared Monkeys Radio with Dana Pretzer
=> Health and Medical Issues
=> Food and Product Recalls
=> News of the Day
=> Business News
=> Sports
=> Political Forum
=> Religion (discussion and debate)
-----------------------------
The Monkey Lounge
-----------------------------
=> The Monkey Lounge
===> Fashion & Decorating
===> What's Cooking? Recipes
===> Games
=> Inspirational
===> Memorial - Gone but Never Forgotten
===> Gratefulness - Light a Candle in Prayer
===> Inspirational scriptures, songs, stories and prayers
-----------------------------
Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Theory and Speculation
=> Links and References Only
=> Natalee Breaking News Archive
-----------------------------
General Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> News Issues
=> Chit Chat
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