Natalee Case Discussion #793 1/13/09 - 1/18/09

[Keepthefaith]

Good Morning Monkey's.A wonderful foggy day in the Northwest. Again.The dumbing down,minimization of Kyle's own words! How'd i know that was coming!

[Blue Moon]

My main problem with Kyle is that I think he enjoyed the attention he got from posting on the forums.  I think he was willing to post whatever made him seem important.  That is why I have a problem with what he posted.  I'm not so sure that any of it is factual.

The Natalee's Freebirds is/was a private forum ... no exposure.  If you read the former Natalee's Freebirds' administrator (Jen) email to Klaas ... she explains that Kyle joined the Natalee's Freebirds with the intention of receiving assistance in compiling a document of the happenings on board the Persistence ... a document that could be submitted to Beth Holloway.  Somewhere along the way Kyle had a change of heart ...

Casa ... I posted the Jen's email which Klaas posted above ... please read.

Janet

Beth HAS NEVER come on this board and told anyone what we can or cannot discuss concerning Natalee and the happenings in Aruba.  She has said she will be Natalee's voice for however long she can even if it is 40 years and she hopes she has that long.  Until Beth says it is over then to me it is NOT over.  JMO.

[Blue Moon]

Johan, you are very creative with that monster. Now this picture is VERY scary to me.
 

[Blue Moon]

Just my thoughts on Kyle and the cage.  Anyone who comes on here and minimizes our words by saying they do not "buy" into our conspiracy theory concerning the Persistence I have only one thing to say about that:  They are not very informed to NOT see what we are saying concerning Kyle and the Persistence endeavor.   IF (and I do not at this point know if Natalee's remains were in that cage) that was Natalee's remains in that cage and the crew of the Persistence allowed Aruba to recover her remains then to me it is not a conspiracy but a CRIMINAL act that should not have happened.  I don't have to have any member of Natalee's family say a word for me to not know exactly how they are feeling about all that happened aboard that boat.  It is a lost opportunity that I am very sure the crew was informed of from the get-go.  One thing I do know from Kyle's own pictures is there is a strong probability that someone was in that cage and NOW no one will ever know who it was be it Natalee and some other human being who is missing. 

I stand with the frog and Natalee and her family.

Blue Moon

[Keepthefaith]

HERE IS MY QUESTION.  WHY ARE PEOPLE SO BENT ON DISCREDITING KERMIT.  WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING KERMIT IS LYING.

POST THE DAMN PROOF.

I DON'T WANT TO HERE WELL I TALKED TO THIS PERSON AND THEY SAID THIS.  TELL THE PERSON TO POST JUST LIKE KERMIT POSTS AND BACKS UP WHAT SHE POSTS.

Speaking only for myself, this is not an attempt to discredit Kermit.  In my posts, I am merely pointing out the fact that everything I have read says that Kermit and the Freebirds based their theory ONLY on Kyle's words and pictures, none of which have proven Natalee was in the cage.  I personally don't believe Kyle, so I cannot believe the Persistence conspiracy theory.  I do believe that Kyle told Kermit and others what Kermit has reported.  My question is: what makes Kyle so credible?  And why do some of you jump to the conclusion that a different opinion is an attempt to discredit other monkeys?  Can't someone have a differing opinion without trying to discredit others?   Or be a mole?

On a lighter note, I love the new "pirate" thing.  I'm hoping to see some new pics of the Persistence crew in their pirate gear.  Picturing Captain Sparrow.

Iris44
"I think the postings about Kyle have been too harsh.  He clearly expressed his concerns all along and provided tons of info that would never have been available otherwise.  I also agree that some of what he said may have been taken out of context.  It's easy to question everything he did in retrospect, but I think he did his best functioning in a complex situation and had good intentions.  Sometimes things are not black and white, and of course he has to protect himself and his livelihood and reputation.  I think it was a mistake to alienate him, and I don't think he owes it to SM to defend himself.  Sometimes you are placed in a situation where it's a no-win no matter what you do. And using his religious beliefs to try to get him to come back and explain seems cruel.


If that isn't an attempt to discredit i don't know what it is!

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle kingman is not a kid ... he is an adult.  Kyle is a university graduate.  Kyle has a professional career in his field of expertise.  Kyle Kingman owns his own company.  Kyle Kingman is a husband.  Kyle Kingman is a father.  Kyle Kingman held a professional position on board the Persistence ... a professional postion that complimented his field of expertise..

I am a believer in Kyle's own words ... words which exposed that the Persistence endeavor had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway and ... had everything to do with John Silvetti assisting the ALE in the finale to the great Aruban coverup in exchange for benefits that furthered his own self interests on the island.

Now that Kyle Kingman' own words are not going to go away and ... those who have up until now upheld both Kyle and John Silvetti realize there is a conflict and ... a choice needs to be made in regards to alliance.

1.  If Kyle Kingman's words are the truth then ... John Silvetti is a scam artist in regards to his claims regarding the objective of Persistence undertaking or ...

2.  If Kyle Kingman's words are outright lies then ... there is no proof that John Silvetti's intentions were nothing but honorable.

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's own words are no longer going to be justified by claims that ... he is young ... he is seeking attention.  Why?  It just does not compute.

I contend that Kyle is going to be thrown under the bus with the implication that he is a liar and ... John Silvetti will somehow emerge the hero of the Persistence endeavor.

1.  Maybe ... in the name of damage control ... a negotiated agreement between Kyle Kingman and John Silvetti in regards to damage control will have Kyle conceding that his own words posted to the Natalee's Freebirds and Scared Monkey sites were fabricated or ...

2.  Maybe Kyle Kingman will step/has stepped up to the plate and revealed the dynamics regarding the deception of the Persistence undertaking to the FBI.

The latter implies there will be a backlash in regards to personal consequences for Kyle  concerning future professional opportunities as well as a possible lawsuit ... both involving John Silvetti.  Maybe a statement to the FBI implies that the waters will be muddied in regard to network negotiations.

In other words ... doing right is not always easy but it is right.  The fallout is an outcome that Kyle will have to deal with but ... a clear conscience implies that it will all be worth it in the long run.

Janet

+++++

Proverbs 22:1
A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches

[Tamikosmom]

Good Morning Monkey's.A wonderful foggy day in the Northwest. Again.The dumbing down,minimization of Kyle's own words! How'd i know that was coming!

Foggy here too neighbour.  The sun would give me such a life.  However ... I am not complaining.  I can deal with the fog ... the lack of sunshine.  The snow is disappearing.  The temperature is above freezing.  The floods are receding.

 

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Good Morning Monkey's.A wonderful foggy day in the Northwest. Again.The dumbing down,minimization of Kyle's own words! How'd i know that was coming!

Foggy here too neighbour.  The sun would give me such a life.  However ... I am not complaining.  I can deal with the fog ... the lack of sunshine.  The snow is disappearing.  The temperature is above freezing.  The floods are receding.

 

Janet

Although i do enjoy the sun most i'm quite content with the Fog.Say goodbye to the snow and floods!

[Kermit]

My main problem with Kyle is that I think he enjoyed the attention he got from posting on the forums.  I think he was willing to post whatever made him seem important.  That is why I have a problem with what he posted.  I'm not so sure that any of it is factual.

casa

1. If what Kyle said is not factual, then why don't you call up the media HE contacted and find out why he was trying to sell the images of the ROV/trap/cage!

2. I do not speak for the family nor have I ever said I do.  I gave proof that Beth gave me permission to expose the document/cover-up by Aruban's.

3. I know more then you think I know.

[hotping]

Good Morning/Afternoon Kermit! Have Ya got any uplifting News or Tidbits that You can share with Us? PLease....give Us something to lift Our spirits in regards to the case.....that is if You can......

[Keepthefaith]

My main problem with Kyle is that I think he enjoyed the attention he got from posting on the forums.  I think he was willing to post whatever made him seem important.  That is why I have a problem with what he posted.  I'm not so sure that any of it is factual.

casa

1. If what Kyle said is not factual, then why don't you call up the media HE contacted and find out why he was trying to sell the images of the ROV/trap/cage!

2. I do not speak for the family nor have I ever said I do.  I gave proof that Beth gave me permission to expose the document/cover-up by Aruban's.

3. I know more then you think I know.

This is about bringing Natalee Holloway home,if at all possible,as well as closure for Dave and Beth.When someone stands in the way of that goal.I find them less then honorable.This Wonderful family DESERVES better then what they got out on the seas of Aruba.Again.This is just my opinion.God Bless Dave and Beth for having an imeasurable strength and faith that Good does still exist in some!

KEEPTHEFAITH

[Tamikosmom]

My main problem with Kyle is that I think he enjoyed the attention he got from posting on the forums.  I think he was willing to post whatever made him seem important.  That is why I have a problem with what he posted.  I'm not so sure that any of it is factual.

casa

1. If what Kyle said is not factual, then why don't you call up the media HE contacted and find out why he was trying to sell the images of the ROV/trap/cage!

2. I do not speak for the family nor have I ever said I do.  I gave proof that Beth gave me permission to expose the document/cover-up by Aruban's.

3. I know more then you think I know.

Ribbit.

Kermit ... logic dictates that Tim T., Louis S. and Kyle K. were not attempting to make deals with major networks by offering ROV images that reveal nothing Natalee Holloway related.

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

THE NETWORKS
 
Kyle:  I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.
 
Kyle:  It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Kyle:  Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.
 
Kyle:  Schafer is sue crazy.
 
Kyle:  Right before the Dateline special aired Tim and Louis asked if I could go to ABC to try to sell the footage in an attempt to recoup some of the money invested in the search efforts. ABC was very interested, but decided to wait until the Dateline special aired. After the show they came back to me and declined to purchase it because they felt too much of the story was already told by Dateline. That ended any communication with ABC. About 6 executive producers saw the footage, but none were allowed copies or any pictures. Everything remained in my possesion.
 
Kyle:  We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere. We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.
 
Kyle:  I prefer moving forward with the evidence I have access and knowledge about and using that as a can opener. Once the can is open, the worms are revealed.
 
Kyle:  I should clarify that the footage proceeds (if sold) wouldn't even have covered the cost of the project, but it would have helped.
 
Kyle:  No one else has access or copies of the photos or footage. All fingers point back to me when this leaks.
 
Kyle:  Louis does have legal rights to the footage regardless of Underwater Expeditions status. Louis personally signed the checks for the search.
 
Kyle:  I prefer moving forward with the evidence I have access and knowledge about and using that as a can opener. Once the can is open, the worms are revealed.

Kyle:  I will soon propose a meeting with Beth and other family members, myself, Tim Trahan, Peter DeVries, and whomever else necessary to go over the ROV video, contents, and case status. I would like a couple people very familiar with the case documents also present to help connect dots during the meeting. I would prefer meeting towards the end of April or mid-May to allow adequate time for things to shake themselves out if is going to. If necessary, I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level. We met in mid-Feb about this already. The question becomes timing, who needs to be there, and whether or not it's covered by the press. I prefer not, but it may be useful. DeVries doesn't need to be there in my opinion but he's good for ratings and helps ABC be cooperative if needed.
 
Kyle:   She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing. The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S. I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship.
 
Kyle:   On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John is left out of the loop.
 

[Keepthefaith]

My main problem with Kyle is that I think he enjoyed the attention he got from posting on the forums.  I think he was willing to post whatever made him seem important.  That is why I have a problem with what he posted.  I'm not so sure that any of it is factual.

casa

1. If what Kyle said is not factual, then why don't you call up the media HE contacted and find out why he was trying to sell the images of the ROV/trap/cage!

2. I do not speak for the family nor have I ever said I do.  I gave proof that Beth gave me permission to expose the document/cover-up by Aruban's.

3. I know more then you think I know.

Ribbit.

Kermit ... logic dictates that Tim T., Louis S. and Kyle K. were not attempting to make deals with major networks by offering ROV images that reveal nothing Natalee Holloway related.

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

THE NETWORKS
 
Kyle:  I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.
 
Kyle:  It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Kyle:  Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.
 
Kyle:  Schafer is sue crazy.
 
Kyle:  Right before the Dateline special aired Tim and Louis asked if I could go to ABC to try to sell the footage in an attempt to recoup some of the money invested in the search efforts. ABC was very interested, but decided to wait until the Dateline special aired. After the show they came back to me and declined to purchase it because they felt too much of the story was already told by Dateline. That ended any communication with ABC. About 6 executive producers saw the footage, but none were allowed copies or any pictures. Everything remained in my possesion.
 
Kyle:  We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere. We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.
 
Kyle:  I prefer moving forward with the evidence I have access and knowledge about and using that as a can opener. Once the can is open, the worms are revealed.
 
Kyle:  I should clarify that the footage proceeds (if sold) wouldn't even have covered the cost of the project, but it would have helped.
 
Kyle:  No one else has access or copies of the photos or footage. All fingers point back to me when this leaks.
 
Kyle:  Louis does have legal rights to the footage regardless of Underwater Expeditions status. Louis personally signed the checks for the search.
 
Kyle:  I prefer moving forward with the evidence I have access and knowledge about and using that as a can opener. Once the can is open, the worms are revealed.

Kyle:  I will soon propose a meeting with Beth and other family members, myself, Tim Trahan, Peter DeVries, and whomever else necessary to go over the ROV video, contents, and case status. I would like a couple people very familiar with the case documents also present to help connect dots during the meeting. I would prefer meeting towards the end of April or mid-May to allow adequate time for things to shake themselves out if is going to. If necessary, I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level. We met in mid-Feb about this already. The question becomes timing, who needs to be there, and whether or not it's covered by the press. I prefer not, but it may be useful. DeVries doesn't need to be there in my opinion but he's good for ratings and helps ABC be cooperative if needed.
 
Kyle:   She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing. The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S. I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship.
 
Kyle:   On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John is left out of the loop.
 

OK Janet.You did it.Logic dictates!

[Kermit]

Good Morning/Afternoon Kermit! Have Ya got any uplifting News or Tidbits that You can share with Us? PLease....give Us something to lift Our spirits in regards to the case.....that is if You can......

Hello Hotping,

When the time is right I will.

[Tamikosmom]

My main problem with Kyle is that I think he enjoyed the attention he got from posting on the forums.  I think he was willing to post whatever made him seem important.  That is why I have a problem with what he posted.  I'm not so sure that any of it is factual.

casa

1. If what Kyle said is not factual, then why don't you call up the media HE contacted and find out why he was trying to sell the images of the ROV/trap/cage!

2. I do not speak for the family nor have I ever said I do.  I gave proof that Beth gave me permission to expose the document/cover-up by Aruban's.

3. I know more then you think I know.

This is about bringing Natalee Holloway home,if at all possible,as well as closure for Dave and Beth.When someone stands in the way of that goal.I find them less then honorable.This Wonderful family DESERVES better then what they got out on the seas of Aruba.Again.This is just my opinion.God Bless Dave and Beth for having an imeasurable strength and faith that Good does still exist in some!

KEEPTHEFAITH

... and this when this pitbull (Mum's definition) come out growling ... snarling and ... showing her teeth.

Hi MumInOhio.

 

Janet

[hotping]

Good Morning/Afternoon Kermit! Have Ya got any uplifting News or Tidbits that You can share with Us? PLease....give Us something to lift Our spirits in regards to the case.....that is if You can......

Hello Hotping,

When the time is right I will.

Thank You......Just those seven little words....are encouraging!   

[Tamikosmom]

Good Morning/Afternoon Kermit! Have Ya got any uplifting News or Tidbits that You can share with Us? PLease....give Us something to lift Our spirits in regards to the case.....that is if You can......

Hello Hotping,

When the time is right I will.

... but ... but ... Tamikosmom wants to know NOW!!!

 

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Good Morning/Afternoon Kermit! Have Ya got any uplifting News or Tidbits that You can share with Us? PLease....give Us something to lift Our spirits in regards to the case.....that is if You can......

Hello Hotping,

When the time is right I will.

One would assume,from all the TV shows you did,your timing would be impeccable!I KEEPTHEFAITH..

[hotping]

Good Morning/Afternoon Kermit! Have Ya got any uplifting News or Tidbits that You can share with Us? PLease....give Us something to lift Our spirits in regards to the case.....that is if You can......

Hello Hotping,

When the time is right I will.

... but ... but ... Tamikosmom wants to know NOW!!!

 

Janet

Me Too Janet.....but I keep remembering that  Patience is a Virtue! 

[Tamikosmom]

Good Morning/Afternoon Kermit! Have Ya got any uplifting News or Tidbits that You can share with Us? PLease....give Us something to lift Our spirits in regards to the case.....that is if You can......

Hello Hotping,

When the time is right I will.

... but ... but ... Tamikosmom wants to know NOW!!!

 

Janet

Me Too Janet.....but I keep remembering that  Patience is a Virtue! 

A virtue that God has yet to bless me with.

 

Janet