Caylee Marie Anthony #90 1/12/09 - 1/14/09

[Monken]

I never said, nor did I even imply, that TM was in it for money. I said he was in it for personal reasons having nothing to do with Caylee. Last I checked his daughter's name was Laura, not Caylee. I respect the work he does and think it's very admirable.  I'm not trying to "rag" on him, by saying that it's not all about Caylee for him. It's about Laura.  Always has been, probably always will be.

As for LE, it's a job. Probably they care about Caylee, but odds are very good that if they weren't being paid they'd be doing something else. However much a person cares about a client, a patient, or a student they serve, they're not gonna do it without the paycheck. Same with LE.

I don't think it's a putdown to say that these people are motivated by professionalism and a dedication to justice in general.

I believe it's mostly about his daughter; but he also feels for people that are in the same situation that he was. And LE has a very difficult job & yes they get paid, they are professionals; but I do think that it has become personal for some of them. It's not hard to feel personally involved when you know the facts about these cases. To me, it is a putdown to say they are only in it for the money. I know alot of people that do things for others without "being paid"! Maybe you don't; So, Whatever!   

[OceaniaGirl]

VERY INTERESTING points being made about the 9 to 1 remark, which always sounded weird, since that is a pretty big timespan and other tidbits of truth Casey might have spoken.  I recall in the JonBenet Ramsey case, the ransom note and other writings were examined by a forensic linguist named Andrew Hodge who maintains that people ALWAYS tell the truth, even when they attempt to lie, because their minds cannot stop the truth from bubbling to the surface.  He made a pretty good case for that.  I wish he would examine some of Casey's statements.  He said you have to read between the lines to figure out where the truth is, but that it can be done.  Some of you are doing that with the statements she has made and coming up with some good possibilities.

Here are a few things that occurred to me.  Both Cindy and one of the detectives said that Casey tells some truth in everything she says, no matter how preposterous, often by borrowing from books, tv shows, friends' experiences, etc.  Cindy swore that as much as Casey lied, she always told the truth eventually and some of the truth was hidden in even her worst lies.

  1.  Casey said at first, or led Cindy to believe, that Zenaida took Caylee because she loved her so much.  Therefore, she was not worried about Caylee being hurt, because Zanny loved her and would take good care of her.  Was this an outright lie to excuse her partying and not reporting Caylee as missing?  Or is there some truth in what she is saying?  We know Zanny is not real, so is Casey saying that Caylee is no longer in danger and that she is with someone who loves her...i.e., in Heaven?  Mothers who kill often justify their actions and their lack of remorse by telling themselves that the child is better off or in a better place.  Casey obviously feels no great remorse over what happened, so she must have convinced herself that it was all for the best.

  2.  In her little poem, "Everyone lies.  Everyone dies." Casey offers a big excuse for her actions.  If everybody lies, then the fact that she lies is not such a big deal.  Who can judge her if they all lie too, even her parents and LE.  Likewise, we all die eventually, so the fact that Caylee died is not that big a deal.  She would have died sooner or later.  Death is natural, so what Casey did is not so wrong in her mind.  Everybody dies, so death is something we all have in common.

  3.  I think he post about "On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken." is a direct reference to Cindy and what Cindy said to her in their big blow up before she took Caylee and left.  I think those words were not spoken by some philosopher or poet but by her own mother.  In a way, she is saying, "When you find out that Caylee is dead or you realize she is gone from you forever, remember the words you spoke to me.  That is why Caylee is dead.  You are the cause, mom.  It is not my fault, it is yours."  Cindy said something, IMO, that not only cut Casey like a knife but made her furious and determined to see that she got even.  It may have been a threat to take custody of Caylee.  It may have been an admission to loving Caylee more.  It may have been a blanket criticism of Casey as a person and a parent.  I really think that is what is meant in that first line.

  4.  A really obvious example of her telling the truth even when lying is the way she says several times in the visits, "I cannot tell you anymore at this time" or "I cannot talk about that," from which Cindy ran with the notion that the whole family was in jeopardy and Casey was protecting not just Caylee but them all from harm.  But Casey was being truthful there.  If she told what happened, she would be admitting to her own guilt and putting herself in danger.  She truly could not say more without implicating herself. 

  5.  Finally, Casey has a pattern of casting herself as either the victim or the hero.  In her stories, she is sometimes abused, as when she says both her dad and Lee had sexually used her, or overwhelmed, as in her story about Zenaida and her sister forcing her to the ground and taking Caylee.  In both cases, the situation was out of her hands and she was the helpless little maiden.  But other times, she is a rock of support.  In her Zanny in the hospital story, she stays with Zanny and comforts her after a bad car wreck.  In another story, she cannot go with Amy because her poor dad has had a "mini-stroke" and she must be with him.  And of course, she was willing to go to jail forever to protect Caylee and her parents from the "people" who were holding Caylee. 

It is really very interesting to figure out how her mind works.  It seems stored with dates, names, incidents, ideas, etc. that she plucks out whenever she needs them.  Since the body was literally in an area that was kind of between the 9 and the 1 in the house numbers, you do have to wonder if she was sending out, knowingly or unknowingly, signals to her parents and Lee about where the body could be found.

If she was doing that, the implication is clear -- find the body and do something to help me.  Put it somewhere else or cover it up better where it is.  I don't think she was signalling them to inform the police that the body was in that location.  It was more "Clean this up for me so I can get out of here, and then we will just forget it ever happened."

Fascinating post, Hudsunn! Psychology is one of my driving interests, and I think you've really made some terrific, insightful, and very logical observations.

[no rose colored glasses]

Hudsunn... Very interesting post, thank-you.

[Sea Searcher]

No nanners HH! Unless you're hungry!

I got a little lost at the end, but just wanted to reply. You think LP thought he was searching in the right area (having pi's search for him) but they were just off by the 150ft? He thought they didn't find her because LE already did? Just trying to get my monkey brain right here! I mean I wouldn't be 100% shocked if LP were somehow tied into this. I know he really wanted her found, but I would be shocked if the A's pi's would work with LP. Unless, in a backwords sorta way they asked the pi's to work with him. Nah, probably not!! <snipped>

   No Im not saying the A's knew that the PI's were doing anything with LP.....these people are money hungry and we all know LP has the money and so who's to say that its wasnt these buffoons that was the source of all os LP's clues to begin with, you heard them say the A's would be mad if they knew they were out there searching, but they were there for some reason and I can answer one question that has been asked several time today....WHAT would they have done if they had found the body.......tell LP thats what, and then watch him put together another search of this area on National TV and he would have been the one holding up the little skull for all to see...a national hero, just like he told Tim!!!     whatever!!!!!

Yes, I think this is possible. As long as these pi's left her alone, and didn't touch evidence. Which by the video we saw, he wasn't being careful one bit. If that were true and I were LP I'd be Pi$$ed at the pi's after watching that video. But, I wouldn't be totally shocked if you were right about this. If LP were searching himself it would be a big deal, and everyone would know about it. Possibly he hooked up with them (like you said maybe if the price were right-not saying he did-just saying maybe), they may have done this for him. Still having a hard time believing it 100%, But, how much $ were the A's able to pay these pi's?? I dunno, it's always possible though, especially with this case!!! What would bring LP to this location, same question I ask whether he's involved or not-what brought the pi's there????

What brought the PI's there is....whatever they heard with being in the house and within close range of the A;s and hearing alot of stuff, possibly stuff they werent suppose to.....and as far as payment for their services, I doubt myself they were getting much from the A's and therefore makes it all the more believable that they might take a payment from LP!!!

I've been trying to follow you too HH...2 questions

are you thinking it was LP on the phone with DC ??

your thinking LP, Hoover and DC were woking together ??

[QuietMonkey]

Hello monkeys. I am new here so hope I am posting correctly. I have had a question for quite awhile, but havent had the guts to just get on here and ask. So... I was wondering if I heard correctly that they said that they knew that the skeleton had been there (where it was found) since June because there was vegetation growing through skull? I guess if that were the case I am a bit confused because the meter reader said that the skull fell out of bag correct? So how could vegetation grow through? Sorry if I'm not making alot of sense. I know what I'm trying to ask, but not too good typing it out.

OK, I'll try to post here if it'll let me! Anyway, I'm not positive they said the skull, I do remember hearing the bones/skeleton. The way the bones are, there are many other bones they could grow through (like hip bones, and shoulder blades, etc. If they did say skull it's possible if a very long vine grew through it, it could have still rolled while the vine were still through it. I hate to think about this stuff, but it's the only way to answer the question. Of course, I could be totally wrong. Just my guessing.

Grass and vines aren't the only vegetation. There's also algae and moss and lichens that could have grown even inside the bag.  Plus the bag was probably torn, and if so, then vines and grass and other kinds of plants could have grown right through the hole.

Another thing about the weeds/vines growing through the bag. I have put down that weed guard stuff, both the cloth type and the plastic type. Regardless of the kind, I always get a few weeds that break through, especially in the summer when things grow like crazy. In an area with as much vegetation like that, it's no doubt (to me anyway) that some weeds/vines grew right through and poked there own holes through the bag to do it. Weeds are just looking for the sunlight, and if the can break through something to get to it, they will.

[Fuzzball]

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) -- The remains of Caylee Anthony may be cremated.



The attorney for the Anthony family feels that might be the best option.

The toddler was missing from June of last year until her remains were found in wooded area near the Anthony home in December. The Orange County medical examiner released the remains to the defense team recently and the Anthony family expects them to be turned over to them sometime this week.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VIDEO: Caylee may be cremated
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then the family can move forward with funeral arrangements. One of the options that is being explored is to have the remains cremated.

“A concern of mine would be the sick individuals out there that might think it would be nice to dig up this child’s grave and profit somehow from it,” said the Anthony family attorney Brad Conway. “So were she’s buried, and whether she’s cremated or not are still things the Anthony family will decide, but we’re going to make sure this child is laid to rest permanently.”

Once the remains are turned over to the family they are expecting to hold both a private and public memorial.
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=8238040&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.1.1

Oh that is disgraceful ...to have her cremated I feel ... I have nothing against people choice's after life ..but I am sorry that is wrong. So now what the Ant's are going to put Caylee on their fireplace mantel ...

Jmo - I think she deserves more than being cremated and put in a Urn as their Trophy - because that's what she has been all along. Forgive me If I insulted anyone with my comments about cremation.

If anything if she were to be placed in a grave and had a proper tombstone - she would have people from here to endless time visiting her and offering her their love and Peace.

I don't know what to think about that ... I am tired sorry Monkeys

I don't think the Ants owe the general public access to Caylee's gravesite. If their religion says it's okay to have a cremation then that's their right. 

People can and do offer their love and peace without having to have a gravesite.

[trimmonthelake]

Timer55 Video

Go to 3:30 and you will hear Cindy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5LaDizrpjs&feature=channel_page

Thank-you, your pup is such a cutie.

Thanks. Cutie pie of a pup. 

[luckycharmsprincess]

Timer55 Video

Go to 3:30 and you will hear Cindy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5LaDizrpjs&feature=channel_page

Thank-you, your pup is such a cutie.

Awww, thanks. Her name is Coco. She's all of 2 lbs, full grown. She's all sugar.

[Fuzzball]

Hello monkeys. I am new here so hope I am posting correctly. I have had a question for quite awhile, but havent had the guts to just get on here and ask. So... I was wondering if I heard correctly that they said that they knew that the skeleton had been there (where it was found) since June because there was vegetation growing through skull? I guess if that were the case I am a bit confused because the meter reader said that the skull fell out of bag correct? So how could vegetation grow through? Sorry if I'm not making alot of sense. I know what I'm trying to ask, but not too good typing it out.

OK, I'll try to post here if it'll let me! Anyway, I'm not positive they said the skull, I do remember hearing the bones/skeleton. The way the bones are, there are many other bones they could grow through (like hip bones, and shoulder blades, etc. If they did say skull it's possible if a very long vine grew through it, it could have still rolled while the vine were still through it. I hate to think about this stuff, but it's the only way to answer the question. Of course, I could be totally wrong. Just my guessing.

Grass and vines aren't the only vegetation. There's also algae and moss and lichens that could have grown even inside the bag.  Plus the bag was probably torn, and if so, then vines and grass and other kinds of plants could have grown right through the hole.

Another thing about the weeds/vines growing through the bag. I have put down that weed guard stuff, both the cloth type and the plastic type. Regardless of the kind, I always get a few weeds that break through, especially in the summer when things grow like crazy. In an area with as much vegetation like that, it's no doubt (to me anyway) that some weeds/vines grew right through and poked there own holes through the bag to do it. Weeds are just looking for the sunlight, and if the can break through something to get to it, they will.

True, QM. They can grow right through some things.  They'll lift rocks, too, if they have to.

[higherhopes]

No nanners HH! Unless you're hungry!

I got a little lost at the end, but just wanted to reply. You think LP thought he was searching in the right area (having pi's search for him) but they were just off by the 150ft? He thought they didn't find her because LE already did? Just trying to get my monkey brain right here! I mean I wouldn't be 100% shocked if LP were somehow tied into this. I know he really wanted her found, but I would be shocked if the A's pi's would work with LP. Unless, in a backwords sorta way they asked the pi's to work with him. Nah, probably not!! <snipped>

   No Im not saying the A's knew that the PI's were doing anything with LP.....these people are money hungry and we all know LP has the money and so who's to say that its wasnt these buffoons that was the source of all os LP's clues to begin with, you heard them say the A's would be mad if they knew they were out there searching, but they were there for some reason and I can answer one question that has been asked several time today....WHAT would they have done if they had found the body.......tell LP thats what, and then watch him put together another search of this area on National TV and he would have been the one holding up the little skull for all to see...a national hero, just like he told Tim!!!     whatever!!!!!

Yes, I think this is possible. As long as these pi's left her alone, and didn't touch evidence. Which by the video we saw, he wasn't being careful one bit. If that were true and I were LP I'd be Pi$$ed at the pi's after watching that video. But, I wouldn't be totally shocked if you were right about this. If LP were searching himself it would be a big deal, and everyone would know about it. Possibly he hooked up with them (like you said maybe if the price were right-not saying he did-just saying maybe), they may have done this for him. Still having a hard time believing it 100%, But, how much $ were the A's able to pay these pi's?? I dunno, it's always possible though, especially with this case!!! What would bring LP to this location, same question I ask whether he's involved or not-what brought the pi's there????

What brought the PI's there is....whatever they heard with being in the house and within close range of the A;s and hearing alot of stuff, possibly stuff they werent suppose to.....and as far as payment for their services, I doubt myself they were getting much from the A's and therefore makes it all the more believable that they might take a payment from LP!!!

I've been trying to follow you too HH...2 questions

are you thinking it was LP on the phone with DC ??

your thinking LP, Hoover and DC were woking together ??

I  dont think it was LP on the phone with DC, but who knows, he could have been.....and I dont think they were working together persay, I just think if they found anything it would have been LP that would have been the one they told what it was....and then they would have gotten there payment under the table so to speak,     What would they have gotten if they told LE (nothing)......self stisfaction maybe, but I doubt thar would have been good enough, and if they told LP and he did a search within the next few days, got the recognition for finding the body, and paid these two goons for the info, the body would be found and the same results if they had called police, only money for them!

[trimmonthelake]

VERY INTERESTING points being made about the 9 to 1 remark, which always sounded weird, since that is a pretty big timespan and other tidbits of truth Casey might have spoken.  I recall in the JonBenet Ramsey case, the ransom note and other writings were examined by a forensic linguist named Andrew Hodge who maintains that people ALWAYS tell the truth, even when they attempt to lie, because their minds cannot stop the truth from bubbling to the surface.  He made a pretty good case for that.  I wish he would examine some of Casey's statements.  He said you have to read between the lines to figure out where the truth is, but that it can be done.  Some of you are doing that with the statements she has made and coming up with some good possibilities.

Here are a few things that occurred to me.  Both Cindy and one of the detectives said that Casey tells some truth in everything she says, no matter how preposterous, often by borrowing from books, tv shows, friends' experiences, etc.  Cindy swore that as much as Casey lied, she always told the truth eventually and some of the truth was hidden in even her worst lies.

  1.  Casey said at first, or led Cindy to believe, that Zenaida took Caylee because she loved her so much.  Therefore, she was not worried about Caylee being hurt, because Zanny loved her and would take good care of her.  Was this an outright lie to excuse her partying and not reporting Caylee as missing?  Or is there some truth in what she is saying?  We know Zanny is not real, so is Casey saying that Caylee is no longer in danger and that she is with someone who loves her...i.e., in Heaven?  Mothers who kill often justify their actions and their lack of remorse by telling themselves that the child is better off or in a better place.  Casey obviously feels no great remorse over what happened, so she must have convinced herself that it was all for the best.

  2.  In her little poem, "Everyone lies.  Everyone dies." Casey offers a big excuse for her actions.  If everybody lies, then the fact that she lies is not such a big deal.  Who can judge her if they all lie too, even her parents and LE.  Likewise, we all die eventually, so the fact that Caylee died is not that big a deal.  She would have died sooner or later.  Death is natural, so what Casey did is not so wrong in her mind.  Everybody dies, so death is something we all have in common.

  3.  I think he post about "On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken." is a direct reference to Cindy and what Cindy said to her in their big blow up before she took Caylee and left.  I think those words were not spoken by some philosopher or poet but by her own mother.  In a way, she is saying, "When you find out that Caylee is dead or you realize she is gone from you forever, remember the words you spoke to me.  That is why Caylee is dead.  You are the cause, mom.  It is not my fault, it is yours."  Cindy said something, IMO, that not only cut Casey like a knife but made her furious and determined to see that she got even.  It may have been a threat to take custody of Caylee.  It may have been an admission to loving Caylee more.  It may have been a blanket criticism of Casey as a person and a parent.  I really think that is what is meant in that first line.

  4.  A really obvious example of her telling the truth even when lying is the way she says several times in the visits, "I cannot tell you anymore at this time" or "I cannot talk about that," from which Cindy ran with the notion that the whole family was in jeopardy and Casey was protecting not just Caylee but them all from harm.  But Casey was being truthful there.  If she told what happened, she would be admitting to her own guilt and putting herself in danger.  She truly could not say more without implicating herself. 

  5.  Finally, Casey has a pattern of casting herself as either the victim or the hero.  In her stories, she is sometimes abused, as when she says both her dad and Lee had sexually used her, or overwhelmed, as in her story about Zenaida and her sister forcing her to the ground and taking Caylee.  In both cases, the situation was out of her hands and she was the helpless little maiden.  But other times, she is a rock of support.  In her Zanny in the hospital story, she stays with Zanny and comforts her after a bad car wreck.  In another story, she cannot go with Amy because her poor dad has had a "mini-stroke" and she must be with him.  And of course, she was willing to go to jail forever to protect Caylee and her parents from the "people" who were holding Caylee. 

It is really very interesting to figure out how her mind works.  It seems stored with dates, names, incidents, ideas, etc. that she plucks out whenever she needs them.  Since the body was literally in an area that was kind of between the 9 and the 1 in the house numbers, you do have to wonder if she was sending out, knowingly or unknowingly, signals to her parents and Lee about where the body could be found.

If she was doing that, the implication is clear -- find the body and do something to help me.  Put it somewhere else or cover it up better where it is.  I don't think she was signalling them to inform the police that the body was in that location.  It was more "Clean this up for me so I can get out of here, and then we will just forget it ever happened."

Love your post!

Great post Hudsunn. 

[Anninflorida]

I just can't figure out why anyone connected with the Ants would have given LP any inside information after November 15th or 16th??? He was a really sore spot with the Ants and if Hoover and DC were working for and/or helping the Ants, why would Hoover have told LP, of all people about the tape?  I really have to wonder if LP was in on this little "search" of theirs.  Remember the conversation he had with TM about how much money a picture showing retrieving the remains would be worth???

[KarmaRoundUp]

Karmaround up

I have been a miss for awhile on SM and I have been looking for you.
I have always remembered you for many reasons -
First your posts, 2nd your Felix the Cat and third your SM Name within Meaning

I think this is the Year .. my Dear Woman ... Karma is not only coming It's Here this year 2009  ~ I believe it, I do.

Thank you Deenie
My SM name means just that....rounding up the Karma,good and bad   
My Felix is always pacing and thinking,pacing and thinking.I love him.

[Fuzzball]

No nanners HH! Unless you're hungry!

I got a little lost at the end, but just wanted to reply. You think LP thought he was searching in the right area (having pi's search for him) but they were just off by the 150ft? He thought they didn't find her because LE already did? Just trying to get my monkey brain right here! I mean I wouldn't be 100% shocked if LP were somehow tied into this. I know he really wanted her found, but I would be shocked if the A's pi's would work with LP. Unless, in a backwords sorta way they asked the pi's to work with him. Nah, probably not!! <snipped>

   No Im not saying the A's knew that the PI's were doing anything with LP.....these people are money hungry and we all know LP has the money and so who's to say that its wasnt these buffoons that was the source of all os LP's clues to begin with, you heard them say the A's would be mad if they knew they were out there searching, but they were there for some reason and I can answer one question that has been asked several time today....WHAT would they have done if they had found the body.......tell LP thats what, and then watch him put together another search of this area on National TV and he would have been the one holding up the little skull for all to see...a national hero, just like he told Tim!!!     whatever!!!!!

Yes, I think this is possible. As long as these pi's left her alone, and didn't touch evidence. Which by the video we saw, he wasn't being careful one bit. If that were true and I were LP I'd be Pi$$ed at the pi's after watching that video. But, I wouldn't be totally shocked if you were right about this. If LP were searching himself it would be a big deal, and everyone would know about it. Possibly he hooked up with them (like you said maybe if the price were right-not saying he did-just saying maybe), they may have done this for him. Still having a hard time believing it 100%, But, how much $ were the A's able to pay these pi's?? I dunno, it's always possible though, especially with this case!!! What would bring LP to this location, same question I ask whether he's involved or not-what brought the pi's there????

What brought the PI's there is....whatever they heard with being in the house and within close range of the A;s and hearing alot of stuff, possibly stuff they werent suppose to.....and as far as payment for their services, I doubt myself they were getting much from the A's and therefore makes it all the more believable that they might take a payment from LP!!!

I've been trying to follow you too HH...2 questions

are you thinking it was LP on the phone with DC ??

your thinking LP, Hoover and DC were woking together ??

It makes no sense for LP to work with them, unless he was working in an FBI sense of entrapment. These PI's were being paid by the Anthony family. LP WAS searching himself, and it WAS a big deal. Why would he go to the river if he already knew where the body was hidden?

Why have that whole big expensive search, and NOT look where they ALL knew the body was hidden? None of this makes sense anymore.

[bigskygal]

Makes sense. Thank you all for trying to clarify for me!!

[mstam656]

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) -- The remains of Caylee Anthony may be cremated.



The attorney for the Anthony family feels that might be the best option.

The toddler was missing from June of last year until her remains were found in wooded area near the Anthony home in December. The Orange County medical examiner released the remains to the defense team recently and the Anthony family expects them to be turned over to them sometime this week.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VIDEO: Caylee may be cremated
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then the family can move forward with funeral arrangements. One of the options that is being explored is to have the remains cremated.

“A concern of mine would be the sick individuals out there that might think it would be nice to dig up this child’s grave and profit somehow from it,” said the Anthony family attorney Brad Conway. “So were she’s buried, and whether she’s cremated or not are still things the Anthony family will decide, but we’re going to make sure this child is laid to rest permanently.”

Once the remains are turned over to the family they are expecting to hold both a private and public memorial.
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=8238040&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.1.1

Oh that is disgraceful ...to have her cremated I feel ... I have nothing against people choice's after life ..but I am sorry that is wrong. So now what the Ant's are going to put Caylee on their fireplace mantel ...

Jmo - I think she deserves more than being cremated and put in a Urn as their Trophy - because that's what she has been all along. Forgive me If I insulted anyone with my comments about cremation.

If anything if she were to be placed in a grave and had a proper tombstone - she would have people from here to endless time visiting her and offering her their love and Peace.

I don't know what to think about that ... I am tired sorry Monkeys

I don't think the Ants owe the general public access to Caylee's gravesite. If their religion says it's okay to have a cremation then that's their right. 

People can and do offer their love and peace without having to have a gravesite.

You can still have cremated reamins at a cemetery.  My brother was cremated and his ashes are in an an interment monument with a beautiful plaque and his name and date of birth and date of death.

[Sassycat]

Timer55 Video

Go to 3:30 and you will hear Cindy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5LaDizrpjs&feature=channel_page

Thank-you, your pup is such a cutie.

Awww, thanks. Her name is Coco. She's all of 2 lbs, full grown. She's all sugar.

She's cute - with a cute name.   One of my siamese is named Cocoa.

[luckycharmsprincess]

VERY INTERESTING points being made about the 9 to 1 remark, which always sounded weird, since that is a pretty big timespan and other tidbits of truth Casey might have spoken.  I recall in the JonBenet Ramsey case, the ransom note and other writings were examined by a forensic linguist named Andrew Hodge who maintains that people ALWAYS tell the truth, even when they attempt to lie, because their minds cannot stop the truth from bubbling to the surface.  He made a pretty good case for that.  I wish he would examine some of Casey's statements.  He said you have to read between the lines to figure out where the truth is, but that it can be done.  Some of you are doing that with the statements she has made and coming up with some good possibilities.

Here are a few things that occurred to me.  Both Cindy and one of the detectives said that Casey tells some truth in everything she says, no matter how preposterous, often by borrowing from books, tv shows, friends' experiences, etc.  Cindy swore that as much as Casey lied, she always told the truth eventually and some of the truth was hidden in even her worst lies.

  1.  Casey said at first, or led Cindy to believe, that Zenaida took Caylee because she loved her so much.  Therefore, she was not worried about Caylee being hurt, because Zanny loved her and would take good care of her.  Was this an outright lie to excuse her partying and not reporting Caylee as missing?  Or is there some truth in what she is saying?  We know Zanny is not real, so is Casey saying that Caylee is no longer in danger and that she is with someone who loves her...i.e., in Heaven?  Mothers who kill often justify their actions and their lack of remorse by telling themselves that the child is better off or in a better place.  Casey obviously feels no great remorse over what happened, so she must have convinced herself that it was all for the best.

  2.  In her little poem, "Everyone lies.  Everyone dies." Casey offers a big excuse for her actions.  If everybody lies, then the fact that she lies is not such a big deal.  Who can judge her if they all lie too, even her parents and LE.  Likewise, we all die eventually, so the fact that Caylee died is not that big a deal.  She would have died sooner or later.  Death is natural, so what Casey did is not so wrong in her mind.  Everybody dies, so death is something we all have in common.

  3.  I think he post about "On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken." is a direct reference to Cindy and what Cindy said to her in their big blow up before she took Caylee and left.  I think those words were not spoken by some philosopher or poet but by her own mother.  In a way, she is saying, "When you find out that Caylee is dead or you realize she is gone from you forever, remember the words you spoke to me.  That is why Caylee is dead.  You are the cause, mom.  It is not my fault, it is yours."  Cindy said something, IMO, that not only cut Casey like a knife but made her furious and determined to see that she got even.  It may have been a threat to take custody of Caylee.  It may have been an admission to loving Caylee more.  It may have been a blanket criticism of Casey as a person and a parent.  I really think that is what is meant in that first line.

  4.  A really obvious example of her telling the truth even when lying is the way she says several times in the visits, "I cannot tell you anymore at this time" or "I cannot talk about that," from which Cindy ran with the notion that the whole family was in jeopardy and Casey was protecting not just Caylee but them all from harm.  But Casey was being truthful there.  If she told what happened, she would be admitting to her own guilt and putting herself in danger.  She truly could not say more without implicating herself. 

  5.  Finally, Casey has a pattern of casting herself as either the victim or the hero.  In her stories, she is sometimes abused, as when she says both her dad and Lee had sexually used her, or overwhelmed, as in her story about Zenaida and her sister forcing her to the ground and taking Caylee.  In both cases, the situation was out of her hands and she was the helpless little maiden.  But other times, she is a rock of support.  In her Zanny in the hospital story, she stays with Zanny and comforts her after a bad car wreck.  In another story, she cannot go with Amy because her poor dad has had a "mini-stroke" and she must be with him.  And of course, she was willing to go to jail forever to protect Caylee and her parents from the "people" who were holding Caylee. 

It is really very interesting to figure out how her mind works.  It seems stored with dates, names, incidents, ideas, etc. that she plucks out whenever she needs them.  Since the body was literally in an area that was kind of between the 9 and the 1 in the house numbers, you do have to wonder if she was sending out, knowingly or unknowingly, signals to her parents and Lee about where the body could be found.

If she was doing that, the implication is clear -- find the body and do something to help me.  Put it somewhere else or cover it up better where it is.  I don't think she was signalling them to inform the police that the body was in that location.  It was more "Clean this up for me so I can get out of here, and then we will just forget it ever happened."

Fascinating post, Hudsunn! Psychology is one of my driving interests, and I think you've really made some terrific, insightful, and very logical observations.

Hey Hudsunn,

Great post! Very insightful. My question to you is, in your #3, you talk about Caylee dying. Casey states in one of her first jail calls, 'It's not MY fault.' Which could explain your thought. How would you explain her actions up to that point? What do the searches on her computer mean?

[Hudsunn]

I just looked at and listened to the tapes referenced below, the timer55 and P.I. ones, and wow...the plot really thickens.  Three rocks or stones figure into it, huh? 

It is possible Casey told Lee a lot of stuff when she was out of jail and sent him coded messages later on.  But it is also possible the P.I.s used info on typical mothers who kill.  For instance, they usually wrap the child in a blanket for some other "comforting" thing.  They often put the body in water or in a familiar place that means something special to them or the child.  AND they often leave some kind of marker or memorial, however slight.  I suppose this means that even a monster has some deep-seated feeling about killing her own child and will do some predictable things. 

In other words, the markers and the blanket and other things might be assumed due to research or experience, not just through what Casey tells them.  That is also true of the plastic bag.  If you are going to dispose of a child's body, an ordinary plastic trash bag is the most obvious thing to use.

It does seem that when Casey tells Lee to look in "familiar places" that goes in direct contradiction to the family's theme that Zenaida had the child in some far-flung state.  I am sure at that time, Cindy was talking about the child being seen in Texas or North Carolina or even Puerto Rico.  So how could any clues be in familiar places to the family?

This obviously is an attempt to tell him how to locate the dump site and do something, which I assume to be move the body or make sure the body is never found.

As for the "55 days," I think that was not so much 55 days since she last saw Caylee, but 55 days that she had not been found. I can't believe that Casey or her lawyer wanted the body to be found where she had dropped it, but she may have wanted the body to be found in some other place, freshly dropped there, so it would like Zenaida had done it while Casey was in jail.

[Jerseygirl345]

Sh*t I got locked out trying to post to Island monkey.

Island if you read this, I replied to your post thanking you for donating your proceeds to TM. I will not say what else I was gonna say because I have been trying to be good.

Ok, I don't like it when monkeys dog TM. He is a saint and no one has any reason to say less. Let them live in his shoes and do what he does. That's my rant I drank a beer and 1/2 and need to shut up now. JSM

Nobody's "dogging" TM.  I didn't say he was in it for the $$. He's in it for Laura and her memory.  He's a man whose obsession with his daughter's murder and the way it was mishandled by LE has led him to do very praiseworthy and exceptional things. Can't that be enough?

Do we have to think he's a saint and that every breath he takes is about Caylee? Nobody could live up to that!

TM is a great man with a heart.. He has dedicated & devoted his life finding the missing ...