Natalee Case Discussion #794 1/18/09 - 1/23/09

[johan555]

thanks blonde
yes that is it

RAMOS, Carlos Alberto Penata (DOB 2-25-79, Cartagena, Columbia) - the gardner witness who claims to have seen 3 boys in Deepak’s car on the dirt road by the pond at the Racquet Club on 5-30-05 at approximately 2:30 AM. Identifies Joran in front seat, Deepak in passenger seat, and unidentified male in rear seat. Claims passenger has hand up besides face, and the driver (identified as Joran) is sitting far back in the seat. His employer was Eric Mansur.

[Tamikosmom]

johan - this pic is from our Faces of Evil series.

It is depicting the VERY short distance between the Racquet Club, and the boat launch between the Mariott and the Holiday Inn.

There is no boat launch at the Racquet Club itself.

I don't think anyone knows for sure (unless Hodges corroborated his statement with someone "in the know") where the Gottenbos boat was on the night of May 30th (or May 29th for that matter).

But the issue is moot, IMO.  That boat could have been ANYPLACE on that island to fit the theory the Freebirds presented.

All that was needed, was for that boat to make it (at some point) to that boat launch the night of May 30th after sunset.

I know jen that boat could have been anyplace on the  island !
But i know there was a second witness at the Racquet Club !
So when the boat was parked there that night , it is  perfect place  to hide a body ( in a boat under a sail ? )

You said it?

i said  WHEN the boat was parked there that Night  pfffft

johan

Do you have a credible source in regards a boat that was parked near the Racquet Ball Club or ... are you speculating.  If so ... what do your base your speculation on?

I am getting soooo confused.

 

Janet

[johan555]

Johan - What you should have said is IF the boat was parked there, not WHEN.  WHEN implies it definately was parked there and IF is maybe it was there.

thanks klaas  we say  >   when = waneer

[Tamikosmom]

thanks blonde
yes that is it

RAMOS, Carlos Alberto Penata (DOB 2-25-79, Cartagena, Columbia) - the gardner witness who claims to have seen 3 boys in Deepak’s car on the dirt road by the pond at the Racquet Club on 5-30-05 at approximately 2:30 AM. Identifies Joran in front seat, Deepak in passenger seat, and unidentified male in rear seat. Claims passenger has hand up besides face, and the driver (identified as Joran) is sitting far back in the seat. His employer was Eric Mansur.

... and where does a boat come into the scenario?

 

Janet

[johan555]

johan - this pic is from our Faces of Evil series.

It is depicting the VERY short distance between the Racquet Club, and the boat launch between the Mariott and the Holiday Inn.

There is no boat launch at the Racquet Club itself.

I don't think anyone knows for sure (unless Hodges corroborated his statement with someone "in the know") where the Gottenbos boat was on the night of May 30th (or May 29th for that matter).

But the issue is moot, IMO.  That boat could have been ANYPLACE on that island to fit the theory the Freebirds presented.

All that was needed, was for that boat to make it (at some point) to that boat launch the night of May 30th after sunset.

I know jen that boat could have been anyplace on the  island !
But i know there was a second witness at the Racquet Club !
So when the boat was parked there that night , it is  perfect place  to hide a body ( in a boat under a sail ? )

You said it?

i said  WHEN the boat was parked there that Night  pfffft

johan

Do you have a credible source in regards a boat that was parked near the Racquet Ball Club or ... are you speculating.  If so ... what do your base your speculation on?

I am getting soooo confused.

 

Janet

it is speculation because what did they there ?

RAMOS, Carlos Alberto Penata (DOB 2-25-79, Cartagena, Columbia) - the gardner witness who claims to have seen 3 boys in Deepak’s car on the dirt road by the pond at the Racquet Club on 5-30-05 at approximately 2:30 AM. Identifies Joran in front seat, Deepak in passenger seat, and unidentified male in rear seat. Claims passenger has hand up besides face, and the driver (identified as Joran) is sitting far back in the seat. His employer was Eric Mansur.

[johan555]

thanks blonde
yes that is it

RAMOS, Carlos Alberto Penata (DOB 2-25-79, Cartagena, Columbia) - the gardner witness who claims to have seen 3 boys in Deepak’s car on the dirt road by the pond at the Racquet Club on 5-30-05 at approximately 2:30 AM. Identifies Joran in front seat, Deepak in passenger seat, and unidentified male in rear seat. Claims passenger has hand up besides face, and the driver (identified as Joran) is sitting far back in the seat. His employer was Eric Mansur.

... and where does a boat come into the scenario?

 

Janet

i will post that tomorrow
it is very late here !

[Tamikosmom]

Good Night Johan!!

It is not even dinner time in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia.  Youngest son's Dutch American inlaws have invited hubby and I for dinner tonight.  A quick trip across the Canadian border is where it is at.  My favorite Dutch serving ... mashed potato with kale ... is on the menu.  I forgot the name.

Janet
4:30 PM PT

[Edward]

Things go " pffft " on Aruba all the time.   

[Tamikosmom]

Things go " pffft " on Aruba all the time.   

Is that the Dutch equivalent of "poof".

 

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Things go " pffft " on Aruba all the time.   

Is that the Dutch equivalent of "poof".

 

Janet

  Little do i know!

[Edward]

blonde:

JOGGER – Jossy Mansur said that his information is that the unknown jogger near the “Marriott Hotel”/drained pond witness telephoned police with his 5-30 observations 2 or 3 days after Natalee disappeared (6-1 or 6-2), and he phoned from a public pay telephone.

Scubajap, First reported this fellow as some sex crimminal at RWV..
When she did that I was wondering if he was a witness or a suspect.
Then she tells us he was sent off the island to Colombia..
Then I really wondered if he was witness or suspect.. lol

[Anna]

Good Night Johan!!

It is not even dinner time in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia.  Youngest son's Dutch American inlaws have invited hubby and I for dinner tonight.  A quick trip across the Canadian border is where it is at.  My favorite Dutch serving ... mashed potato with kale ... is on the menu.  I forgot the name.

Janet
4:30 PM PT

If you are spending the night, don't forget the Windex, Janet.  Tomorrow is Wednesday, lol.

 

[Anna]

blonde:

JOGGER – Jossy Mansur said that his information is that the unknown jogger near the “Marriott Hotel”/drained pond witness telephoned police with his 5-30 observations 2 or 3 days after Natalee disappeared (6-1 or 6-2), and he phoned from a public pay telephone.

Scubajap, First reported this fellow as some sex crimminal at RWV..
When she did that I was wondering if he was a witness or a suspect.
Then she tells us he was sent off the island to Colombia..
Then I really wondered if he was witness or suspect.. lol

I remember that well, Edward.  She said the cops asked the witness to call back because they were planning to arrest him also.

But then scubajap was placed there for totally disinformation purposes and wasn't as good at it as some I have seen.

[Anna]

johan - this pic is from our Faces of Evil series.

It is depicting the VERY short distance between the Racquet Club, and the boat launch between the Mariott and the Holiday Inn.

There is no boat launch at the Racquet Club itself.

I don't think anyone knows for sure (unless Hodges corroborated his statement with someone "in the know") where the Gottenbos boat was on the night of May 30th (or May 29th for that matter).

But the issue is moot, IMO.  That boat could have been ANYPLACE on that island to fit the theory the Freebirds presented.

All that was needed, was for that boat to make it (at some point) to that boat launch the night of May 30th after sunset.

I know jen that boat could have been anyplace on the  island !
But i know there was a second witness at the Racquet Club !
So when the boat was parked there that night , it is  perfect place  to hide a body ( in a boat under a sail ? )

You said it?

i said  WHEN the boat was parked there that Night  pfffft

johan

Do you have a credible source in regards a boat that was parked near the Racquet Ball Club or ... are you speculating.  If so ... what do your base your speculation on?

I am getting soooo confused.

 

Janet

it is speculation because what did they there ?

RAMOS, Carlos Alberto Penata (DOB 2-25-79, Cartagena, Columbia) - the gardner witness who claims to have seen 3 boys in Deepak’s car on the dirt road by the pond at the Racquet Club on 5-30-05 at approximately 2:30 AM. Identifies Joran in front seat, Deepak in passenger seat, and unidentified male in rear seat. Claims passenger has hand up besides face, and the driver (identified as Joran) is sitting far back in the seat. His employer was Eric Mansur.

Johan, when you come back tomorrow, what did they do there?

Did that witness say someone took the boat to the tennis courts?  That would be very odd considering all the available water surrounding in other places.  I have never read anything at all about that witness seeing any boat.  Do you have a link?

I am not following this discussion very well but it has been a very long day. 

[Tamikosmom]

blonde:

JOGGER – Jossy Mansur said that his information is that the unknown jogger near the “Marriott Hotel”/drained pond witness telephoned police with his 5-30 observations 2 or 3 days after Natalee disappeared (6-1 or 6-2), and he phoned from a public pay telephone.

Scubajap, First reported this fellow as some sex crimminal at RWV..
When she did that I was wondering if he was a witness or a suspect.
Then she tells us he was sent off the island to Colombia..
Then I really wondered if he was witness or suspect.. lol

In my research I could not find anything in regards to a witness who saw a boat.  The indication is that both the jogger and the gardener reported seeing Deepak's vehicle with Joran and Deepak sitting inside.

Janet

+++++

THE JOGGER

NANCY GRACE
Can Aruban Prosecutors Keep Joran Van Der Sloot in Jail?
Aired August 23, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

ANASTASIYA BOLTON, WBMA-TV: ... Also, the jogger, the latest witness that police are talking about -- this is supposedly the man who called police from a public phone several days after Natalee Holloway disappeared, saying that he saw the car with the Kalpoe brothers and Joran by the racquet club the night that she disappeared. Police are still looking for him. They`re not able to find him because the man, again, called from a public phone and did not leave his name -- Nancy.

GRACE: You know, that was a question we had last night, Jossy, as to why the Aruban police could not trace that phone call from a jogger, a jogger escaping the heat on the island of Aruba the night Natalee went missing. That`s the apparent explanation of why he was out jogging at that time of the night. Jossy, if this is true and he called from a public phone, true, police cannot trace who he is, but it would also give credence. Was that public phone near where Natalee Holloway disappeared?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": That`s what I understand, that this jogger also saw the same car parked at the same spot by the racquet club. However, he did call from a public telephone, and I don`t know whether the police can trace it or not. But according to information I have, they cannot.

GRACE: Well, they already know it`s from a public phone. They know where it was. Take a listen to this.

<snipped>

... Jossy, I want to get everything I can from you that you know about this jogger. Could you just tell me, what night is it the jogger calls police about what he saw?

MANSUR: I think it was two or three nights after Natalee disappeared. I don`t know. I don`t have any of the answers to that. I don`t know any of the facts involved. I know that the police have put out a call for him. They`ve requested us to publish it, where we did publish a request for this man to come forward. And they`ve been on the radio and everywhere else, asking for this jogger to show up, to give his testimony.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/23/ng.01.html


Midnight Jogger Bulletin
DIARIO Aruba
8/22/2005

Police got an anonymous tip from a person who regularly jogs very early in the morning hours, in the area of Rooi Santo and the Aruba Racquet Club.

This person is male and now his information is considered very valuable to Police.

The Police requests that the jogger get in contact with the Police spokesperson, Papito Comencia by telephone at 583-3483 or 582-4000

As of yesterday, this person has not reacted to the request. DIARIO doesn't know if there was someone there to answer the phone. An American journalist tried calling live, but one of the numbers was a fax machine and the other, no one answered.

It is known that this person (witness) possibly saw a very suspicionsly parked vehicle in the early morning hours. This would corroborate the other witness who said that he saw this vehicle, with the suspects Deepak, Satish and Joran.

[translated by Getagrip]

Posted by Getagrip at 8/22/2005 10:08:00 AM

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_08_21_archive.html


Dave Holloway
Hannity & Colmes
August 10, 2005

COLMES: The question is cover up or incompetence? Is the person working with you getting to the bottom of it?

HOLLOWAY: I spoke to him today, he is as perplexed about all of this as we are. Seems like every time someone speaks out or comes forward. Just like the gardener, he is supposed to appear in court Thursday then be immediately deported. That is the work of the defense of course. Some witnesses may be scared to come forward for fear of repercussions.

[Anna]

Amelie Flanagan quit this case because ALE refused to search the Gottenbos boat.  I remember that from Dave's book.  I remember things very well but can't find back up even when I have it cause of the way I stored it, it is a mess and I have had three computers hacked since the beginning and lost lots of stuff.

But if I say I remember something, those better organized can usually find the appropriate quotes far better than I ever could.  It amazes me.

Dave did want that boat searched.  He also commented on Koen dropping and rolling behind the couch when he looked out and saw Dave driving by, lol.  Who was Dave with?  I think Art Woods?

Why would Koen react that way?  As recently posted, Michael Dompig also told Dave that Paulus took out the Gottenbos boat the Monday of Natalee's disappearance.  I have always thought that was on one of the pretend trips to the bank.  If it happened, that is.

[Tamikosmom]

Good Night Johan!!

It is not even dinner time in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia.  Youngest son's Dutch American inlaws have invited hubby and I for dinner tonight.  A quick trip across the Canadian border is where it is at.  My favorite Dutch serving ... mashed potato with kale ... is on the menu.  I forgot the name.

Janet
4:30 PM PT

If you are spending the night, don't forget the Windex, Janet.  Tomorrow is Wednesday, lol.

 

 

We were invited to spend the night because the local crossing closes at 8:00 PM and ... we then have a 45 minute drive home rather than a 25 minute drive to a crossing further west.  However  ... I have commitments at the church tomorrow morning as well as lunch plans so ... I do believe I will be sleeping in my own bed.

Good Night Monkeys!!  Good Night Zookeepers!!

Janet
4:50 PM PT

 

[Anna]

Supposedly the Gottenbos were planning the move to this country for three years.  At least that's the story that was told when they moved.

I have wondered if they wanted to get their own kids away from Joran and the unwholesome environment of sleaze on that island.  Not a place I would want to rear my own kids at all.  But then I would also not take them boozing and gambling underage, either, because parents should teach kids to always obey the law no matter what.

[Keepthefaith]

Good Night Johan!!

It is not even dinner time in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia.  Youngest son's Dutch American inlaws have invited hubby and I for dinner tonight.  A quick trip across the Canadian border is where it is at.  My favorite Dutch serving ... mashed potato with kale ... is on the menu.  I forgot the name.

Janet
4:30 PM PT

If you are spending the night, don't forget the Windex, Janet.  Tomorrow is Wednesday, lol.

 

 

We were invited to spend the night because the local crossing closes at 8:00 PM and ... we then have a 45 minute drive home rather than a 25 minute drive to a crossing further west.  However  ... I have commitments at the church tomorrow morning as well as lunch plans so ... I do believe I will be sleeping in my own bed.

Good Night Monkeys!!  Good Night Zookeepers!!

Janet
4:50 PM PT

 

Have a safe and wondeful evening!

[KYcat]

I blew the pic up of the boat (just 'cause I'm blind) and the propeller looks just fine.  I have a Four Winns, 16 ft. speed/ski boat, cummins inboard/outboard, and I guarantee you I could get the cage on my boat.  It would fit on this boat also.  Even if it was a 7'x4' cage, you could get it on there.  A cage could be drug under water also, especially no farther out than the cage they found was.  It really would not take as much effort as some people would make you believe.

JMHO