Natalee Case Discussion #794 1/18/09 - 1/23/09

[wreck]

Thought you would be interested in this article:

THE HAGUE, Netherlands  —  A right-wing lawmaker should be prosecuted for inciting racial hatred with anti-Islamic statements that include calling the Koran a "fascist book," a Dutch court ruled Wednesday.

Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders made headlines around the world in March 2008 with his film "Fitna," which juxtaposed Koranic verses against a background of violent film clips and images of terrorism by Islamic radicals.

In 2007, Wilders called for a ban on the Koran "the same way we ban 'Mein Kampf."' He said both Adolf Hitler's work and the Muslim holy book contain passages that contradict Western values.

The Amsterdam Appeals Court called Wilders' statements in his film, newspaper articles and media interviews "one-sided generalizations ... which can amount to inciting hatred."

The court's ruling reverses a decision last year by the public prosecutor's office that said Wilders' film and interviews were painful for Muslims but not criminal.

Wilders told Dutch media it was a "black day for myself and for freedom of speech."

The decision set the stage for what will likely be a highly charged trial touching on the declining Dutch tolerance toward a large immigrant population from Muslim countries, mainly Morocco and Turkey. Dutch attitudes shifted markedly after the 2004 murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a radical Dutch Muslim.

Wilders, whose party has nine lawmakers in the 120-seat lower house of Dutch Parliament, has built his popularity largely on tapping into fear and resentment among Dutch voters of Muslim immigrants.

"I've had enough of Islam in the Netherlands; let not one more Muslim immigrate," he wrote once in national newspaper De Volkskrant. "I've had enough of the Koran in the Netherlands: Forbid that fascist book."

The three judges said they had weighed Wilders' anti-Islamic rhetoric against his right to free speech, and ruled he had even gone beyond the normal leeway given to politicians.

Because Wilders has not yet been charged, it is not clear what maximum penalty he could face if convicted.

While judges in the Netherlands generally are loathe to become involved in public debate, the court said it was making an exception in the case of Wilders' comments about Islam.

"The court considers this so insulting for Muslims that it is in the public interest to prosecute Wilders," a summary of the court's decision said.

Gerard Spong, a prominent lawyer who joined Islamic groups in pushing for Wilders' prosecution, welcomed the decision.

"This is a happy day for all followers of Islam who do not want to be tossed on the garbage dump of Naziism," Spong told reporters in Amsterdam.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,481110,00.html

DO I remember this name as a Dutch attorney for one of the early "detainees" in the Nataleey case??????

Guido's Lawyer in Holland.

that's it! 

[bleachedblack]

So do you think Jossy was knowledgable that the radar was really turned off that night? or do you think maybe he said that instead of saying "Oh the radar never really works".

[Anna]

Help me out here--didn't someone provide documentation that the radar was turned off the night Natalee disappeared?

Still drinking my coffee this morning as it is bitterly cold today and I can't recall where we read that but it was fairly well established to be truth.

Anyone?

YES I'm looking for proof.

I think this article answers some of our questions:

Gerold Dompig during his CBS 48 Hours interview stated that experiments were done with dummies being thrown over board in the water; every time they drifted back to shore. The only way this would not occur was if a boat sailed more than two miles off shore. Dompig then stated, “a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape. Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished“.


---------

So their radar will only capture boats who go out farther than two miles (could answer our question about having chosen the location the trap was found in)

If we believe Dompig - every boat that was out past those two miles was accounted for, at least on the night of May 29/early morning May 30th

To cloud the issue of the radar even more,

I believe it was Jossy who recently stated in an interview, maybe with Greta, that the police had turned off the radar on the night Natalee disappeared.

Good day monkeys!

snip
VAN SUSTEREN: And do you know -- and in terms of boats that night, do you know if any thorough investigation, one that you would have confidence in? Has that been done?

MANSUR: No, it hasn't been done because that night, somebody in the police force told the people handling the radar that controls the boats in the vicinity on the coast of Aruba -- told them to put it off.

VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, thank you.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html

Blonde, you are on a roll today (and every day!).  So we once again ponder the question of who in the police force told them to turn off the radar, assuming this is true?  Van der Straten?

Hope whoever turned it off got those instructions in writing!  If it was turned off them Natalee could have been taken farther out than the 2 miles.

[Anna]

Sometimes I read back and just have to agree........



Posted by: dutchlady | Sunday, July 10, 2005 at 11:05 AM

I have posted my psycholinguistics thread in scared monkeys. There are not enough paid jobs for profilers, 1% of those that train in other disciplines as forensic. The persons like me who do predict as in Dennis Radar characteristics from thoughtprints are found time and time again to be right. Same as folie a duex and the 1-40 murders. They are in fact two, male and female, and have some issues of abandonment rage, and sadism. So if we look at all the suspects said with what witnesses said of timelines we see that superfluous statements are thoughtprints.

My thoughts on this come from reading 'inside the mind of a serial killer' who did produce fiction and fact mixed that he could not erase from sensory memory channels as autobiographical memory.

Joran needs his ego to be kept up, as is shown by the cloths, manner and his attitude of smirking for he is in control. To find out how his words fall all they have to do is keep talking to him. In the end his own character is in narcissism, so he will make scenes that contradict.

In this he has shown there was no beach, no lighthouse and that he was at home, and that is where this thing ends. To look for something you look where is so normal and that is why the public find victims as in Shasta's case as so very normal you overlook it. Most homicide victims are found by family when they die in that vicinity because they know the area and the person.

In cases of others intervention, it is the locals who find as random to the search area. The search area cannot be far from the window of time in that Aruba girl says saw going to the home of JVDS at 2 am APROX. That means that it could have been nearer 1.45 as time out was 1. 15 I would speculate as 1.00 am the club closes. If they drove from c and c's to the house you can add 15 minutes or more depending on any fracas on the way.

Car washed in unusual place near Kalpoe home, at 2.30- 3.00 am. So whatever befell Natalee she has to be in the radius of the home, from 3.00 am if that call is to be counted on a land line as you can use text, so why use verbal phone.

This means that Natalee was alive at 3.00.am and Kalpoe brothers were not there, so who was? If father was'nt as seems plain, the where were the dogs at the Joran household. Joran said to his mother ' if you had been there this would not have happened' find that statement and analyse it.
This is a sociopaths way of distributing blame, what happened, as this is a missing girl who with this intonation he is saying if she had been at home this would not have happened.

Thoughtprints indicate home, as the problem. Natalee has to be so near they and the search team are not allowed to search without a warrant. That warrant will or should be instigated due to analytical experts paid by the police seeing the pattern and added with forensic evidence that Paulus feels is well hidden. The clues to this are his behaviour of stress on being in his own home and being filmed and interviewed. She is somewhere near or in that complex is my take on this, or was as deceased from 3.15 am.

I will discuss traps and boats and just about anything else that is possible in the interest of getting to the truth.  But deep down I have always felt at least the original crime scene was the Sloot compound.

Otherwise, why not permit a search?  Do they have something even worse to hide?  But Dompig  insisted the remains were moved around.  That is also possible.

Another gut feeling is that at some point in time Natalee's remains were in the custody of authorities including but not limited to Uncle Jan.

I wonder if San still thinks this also.  After that I don't know what happened. 

Where are the tapes of Paulus and the Colombians?  Greta needs to do a program on those and release that information.  Bet she has offered it to Mos already.

Humm.. . . anyone thing that may have been what JQK took to Mos recently?

Just thinking out loud. . ..

[bastibro]

Spong was Guido Wever's lawyer, retained by the family. Claimed he(Guido) wore makeup 'cause he was gay .

Spong is on TV right now about Wilders.
He was Guido`s lawyer here, he lives here in Amsterdam and is gay himself to

[bleachedblack]

Anna wrote;

I will discuss traps and boats and just about anything else that is possible in the interest of getting to the truth.  But deep down I have always felt at least the original crime scene was the Sloot compound.

Otherwise, why not permit a search?  Do they have something even worse to hide?  But Dompig  insisted the remains were moved around.  That is also possible.

Another gut feeling is that at some point in time Natalee's remains were in the custody of authorities including but not limited to Uncle Jan.

I wonder if San still thinks this also.  After that I don't know what happened.

Where are the tapes of Paulus and the Colombians?  Greta needs to do a program on those and release that information.  Bet she has offered it to Mos already.

Humm.. . . anyone thing that may have been what JQK took to Mos recently?

Just thinking out loud. . ..

I have to agree, though my opinion have varied over the years......I think they(Joran and Natalee) headed to Sloots and the K's dropped them there. They may initially drove around and then when Natalee was going in and out off consciousness stopped the car and decided what to do. This may have been when they were witnessed. So they were dropped at the sloots. I think in one of his early interviews with Greta Joran admits to stopping there? Was this to cover for having possibly being observed by neighbors?

[bastibro]

Help me out here--didn't someone provide documentation that the radar was turned off the night Natalee disappeared?

Still drinking my coffee this morning as it is bitterly cold today and I can't recall where we read that but it was fairly well established to be truth.

Anyone?

YES I'm looking for proof.

I think this article answers some of our questions:

Gerold Dompig during his CBS 48 Hours interview stated that experiments were done with dummies being thrown over board in the water; every time they drifted back to shore. The only way this would not occur was if a boat sailed more than two miles off shore. Dompig then stated, “a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape. Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished“.


---------

So their radar will only capture boats who go out farther than two miles (could answer our question about having chosen the location the trap was found in)

If we believe Dompig - every boat that was out past those two miles was accounted for, at least on the night of May 29/early morning May 30th

To cloud the issue of the radar even more,

I believe it was Jossy who recently stated in an interview, maybe with Greta, that the police had turned off the radar on the night Natalee disappeared.

Good day monkeys!

snip
VAN SUSTEREN: And do you know -- and in terms of boats that night, do you know if any thorough investigation, one that you would have confidence in? Has that been done?

MANSUR: No, it hasn't been done because that night, somebody in the police force told the people handling the radar that controls the boats in the vicinity on the coast of Aruba -- told them to put it off.

VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, thank you.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html

Blonde, you are on a roll today (and every day!).  So we once again ponder the question of who in the police force told them to turn off the radar, assuming this is true?  Van der Straten?Hope whoever turned it off got those instructions in writing!  If it was turned off them Natalee could have been taken farther out than the 2 miles.

Vo(King)?

[Edward]

So ALE just hit the OFF button.. How convienient is that ?

[Helen Back]

Help me out here--didn't someone provide documentation that the radar was turned off the night Natalee disappeared?

Still drinking my coffee this morning as it is bitterly cold today and I can't recall where we read that but it was fairly well established to be truth.

Anyone?

YES I'm looking for proof.

I think this article answers some of our questions:

Gerold Dompig during his CBS 48 Hours interview stated that experiments were done with dummies being thrown over board in the water; every time they drifted back to shore. The only way this would not occur was if a boat sailed more than two miles off shore. Dompig then stated, “a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape. Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished“.


---------

So their radar will only capture boats who go out farther than two miles (could answer our question about having chosen the location the trap was found in)

If we believe Dompig - every boat that was out past those two miles was accounted for, at least on the night of May 29/early morning May 30th

To cloud the issue of the radar even more,

I believe it was Jossy who recently stated in an interview, maybe with Greta, that the police had turned off the radar on the night Natalee disappeared.

Good day monkeys!

Aha!  Now that is also something we will recall.  The radar actually being turned off.  Could Jossy have said this on Dana?  Maybe if it was Greta we can locate a transcript.  Wish we had transcripts for all Dana programs as well.  Dana needs to learn to type real fast, lol.

 

I don't have transcripts, but Jossy made this statement on Nov. 18, 2009 OTR with Greta at about 3:00 minutes, credit to Bastibro for posting the link in our media coverage:

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=9ErLVCnzZQ0

Probably Janet has this stashed somewhere 

[ospainter]

Hi OS I see you up there.

Hi BB

Nice to see you..

[Blonde]

Help me out here--didn't someone provide documentation that the radar was turned off the night Natalee disappeared?

Still drinking my coffee this morning as it is bitterly cold today and I can't recall where we read that but it was fairly well established to be truth.

Anyone?

YES I'm looking for proof.

I think this article answers some of our questions:

Gerold Dompig during his CBS 48 Hours interview stated that experiments were done with dummies being thrown over board in the water; every time they drifted back to shore. The only way this would not occur was if a boat sailed more than two miles off shore. Dompig then stated, “a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape. Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished“.


---------

So their radar will only capture boats who go out farther than two miles (could answer our question about having chosen the location the trap was found in)

If we believe Dompig - every boat that was out past those two miles was accounted for, at least on the night of May 29/early morning May 30th

To cloud the issue of the radar even more,

I believe it was Jossy who recently stated in an interview, maybe with Greta, that the police had turned off the radar on the night Natalee disappeared.

Good day monkeys!

Aha!  Now that is also something we will recall.  The radar actually being turned off.  Could Jossy have said this on Dana?  Maybe if it was Greta we can locate a transcript.  Wish we had transcripts for all Dana programs as well.  Dana needs to learn to type real fast, lol.

 

I don't have transcripts, but Jossy made this statement on Nov. 18, 2009 OTR with Greta at about 3:00 minutes, credit to Bastibro for posting the link in our media coverage:

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=9ErLVCnzZQ0

Probably Janet has this stashed somewhere 

I had it saved
VAN SUSTEREN: And do you know -- and in terms of boats that night, do you know if any thorough investigation, one that you would have confidence in? Has that been done?

MANSUR: No, it hasn't been done because that night, somebody in the police force told the people handling the radar that controls the boats in the vicinity on the coast of Aruba -- told them to put it off.

VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, thank you.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html

[bleachedblack]

which brings to mind .......(have always loved this post ).


Dutchlady wrote:
If a person who takes someone has a home he takes that person to be isolated for his intentions. In all the cases of abductions of persons at nightclubs and at open places there is a foreplay of games as bait.

It also makes sense as sex is not an off- on switch with two in tow, it is a game set out before hand with more than one.

It is also the case that the beach was a later alibi as was the lighthouse one, as distancing from the home of Joran who had unlimited access. No kids shits on the beach if he has a bog at home. To graphic, then listen to kids of that age in school. No man or boy of over 16 would think of peeing in a gutter or laying in a tourism place as an alternative to his own drink parlour and bog. Yes, the words come as easily as other predators I have listened too, and what they do is tell a good story in their mind and regurtitate it. It takes a snake to catch a snake. The snake is not Joran, yes he has in my opinion lashed out at Natalee for some reason, but the duality of this is the repetition and stage management so that has to be a more older adult. He is procuring for someone else and simple bragging because he joins in on the action as a forensic cue from his own photos on the web.

I would like the person who dangles the web picture on Jorans site to again contact me, he is not wanting money, so it must be revenge. That person is trying to be a friend of the Holloways but is not. I urge that person to send me the website before Paulus took it down. That is the key to all this and why it had to be taken down as the pictures were going to be uploaded there untill something went drastically wrong in this roleplay is my making on the content and conditions of the actors behaviours exposed.

[Blonde]

Also this one

Amigoe
November 2005
"Radar System Not Watertight"

ORANJESTAD — The radar-system that monitors the coastline is not watertight. People still manage to enter Aruba illegally from sea. This was stated by the general commander of Warda nos Costa, Gerold Dompig. His statement challenges the words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) who closed a lease contract for the radar equipment last year.

In June, July and August 2004 the radars were put into operation as a test. Vessels were placed out at sea to test the radar’s reach. The results were positive and the lease contract was signed till August 2007. A year later it becomes apparent that the radar’s efficiency is somewhat different in reality compared to the theoretical press presentation of Raytheon. Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompig’s statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. “The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.”

www.amigoe.com/

[bleachedblack]

Heck if they had a working radar system all those kilos wouldn't make it through....

[Keepthefaith]

Heck if they had a working radar system all those kilos wouldn't make it through....

I find it quite the opposite especially with a corrupt GOVT.They wanna know exactly where there money is at.No funny stuff!JMOO

[bleachedblack]

Heck if they had a working radar system all those kilos wouldn't make it through....

I find it quite the opposite especially with a corrupt GOVT.They wanna know exactly where there money is at.No funny stuff!JMOO

I have to disagree. The same idea applies  in medicine. If you don't want to know of a negative result, then don't order the test and have it documented on the patients chart. Then when you don't do something about it-it is negligence.If you want the
uncontrolled flow of drugs, then don't document the illegal boat traffic-unless you need to make a bust of course.

[Keepthefaith]

Heck if they had a working radar system all those kilos wouldn't make it through....

I find it quite the opposite especially with a corrupt GOVT.They wanna know exactly where there money is at.No funny stuff!JMOO

I have to disagree. The same idea applies  in medicine. If you don't want to know of a negative result, then don't order the test and have it documented on the patients chart. Then when you don't do something about it-it is negligence.If you want the
uncontrolled flow of drugs, then don't document the illegal boat traffic-unless you need to make a bust of course.

From what i've seen this Govt doesn't care about people getting murdered!Why would they be concerned with illegal boat activity?The only thing they want is a cut of the profits!Obviously they're protecting Paulus for some reason even at the expense of him being involved in the murder of an American girl!Wonder why that might be?Because he's involved knee-deep in the laundering of DRUG money!

[bastibro]

Help me out here--didn't someone provide documentation that the radar was turned off the night Natalee disappeared?

Still drinking my coffee this morning as it is bitterly cold today and I can't recall where we read that but it was fairly well established to be truth.

Anyone?

YES I'm looking for proof.

I think this article answers some of our questions:

Gerold Dompig during his CBS 48 Hours interview stated that experiments were done with dummies being thrown over board in the water; every time they drifted back to shore. The only way this would not occur was if a boat sailed more than two miles off shore. Dompig then stated, “a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape. Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished“.


---------

So their radar will only capture boats who go out farther than two miles (could answer our question about having chosen the location the trap was found in)

If we believe Dompig - every boat that was out past those two miles was accounted for, at least on the night of May 29/early morning May 30th

To cloud the issue of the radar even more,

I believe it was Jossy who recently stated in an interview, maybe with Greta, that the police had turned off the radar on the night Natalee disappeared.

Good day monkeys!

Aha!  Now that is also something we will recall.  The radar actually being turned off.  Could Jossy have said this on Dana?  Maybe if it was Greta we can locate a transcript.  Wish we had transcripts for all Dana programs as well.  Dana needs to learn to type real fast, lol.

 

I don't have transcripts, but Jossy made this statement on Nov. 18, 2009 OTR with Greta at about 3:00 minutes, credit to Bastibro for posting the link in our media coverage:

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=9ErLVCnzZQ0

Probably Janet has this stashed somewhere 

I think this interview of Peter de Vries with Celes deserves more attention.
Joran stated specifically, when they were talking about the dummy s that were throwed in the ocean by ALE, that Natalee Wasn t THERE.
I assume ALE considers Celes as a credible witness.

[bleachedblack]

Heck if they had a working radar system all those kilos wouldn't make it through....

I find it quite the opposite especially with a corrupt GOVT.They wanna know exactly where there money is at.No funny stuff!JMOO

I have to disagree. The same idea applies  in medicine. If you don't want to know of a negative result, then don't order the test and have it documented on the patients chart. Then when you don't do something about it-it is negligence.If you want the
uncontrolled flow of drugs, then don't document the illegal boat traffic-unless you need to make a bust of course.

From what i've seen this Govt doesn't care about people getting murdered!Why would they be concerned with illegal boat activity?The only thing they want is a cut of the profits!Obviously they're protecting Paulus for some reason even at the expense of him being involved in the murder of an American girl!Wonder why that might be?Because he's involved knee-deep in the laundering of DRUG money!

Because if the boats with illegal drugs can't get through, they don't make money.

[Tamikosmom]

Botched Holloway case continues to damage  Aruba tourism

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t090120a.html