Natalee Case Discussion #794 1/18/09 - 1/23/09

[2NJSons_Mom]

So, Magnolia and I were mixing up interviews about the radar earlier...Dompig said it worked (depending on circumstances) and Jossy said it was turned off????

[Keepthefaith]

Heck if they had a working radar system all those kilos wouldn't make it through....

I find it quite the opposite especially with a corrupt GOVT.They wanna know exactly where there money is at.No funny stuff!JMOO

I have to disagree. The same idea applies  in medicine. If you don't want to know of a negative result, then don't order the test and have it documented on the patients chart. Then when you don't do something about it-it is negligence.If you want the
uncontrolled flow of drugs, then don't document the illegal boat traffic-unless you need to make a bust of course.

From what i've seen this Govt doesn't care about people getting murdered!Why would they be concerned with illegal boat activity?The only thing they want is a cut of the profits!Obviously they're protecting Paulus for some reason even at the expense of him being involved in the murder of an American girl!Wonder why that might be?Because he's involved knee-deep in the laundering of DRUG money!

Because if the boats with illegal drugs can't get through, they don't make money.

I understand BB.I just don't hink they care if the boats come in or out as long as the powers that be get there cuts!The possibility does exist either way i believe.If the radar was turned off the night Natalee was to have been taken to sea then it is entirely possible they turn them OFF on a regular basis!I also believe that i've read that the Mansur family is highly aware of all high-speed boats that go back and forth.I could be wrong!

[bastibro]

Heck if they had a working radar system all those kilos wouldn't make it through....

I find it quite the opposite especially with a corrupt GOVT.They wanna know exactly where there money is at.No funny stuff!JMOO

I have to disagree. The same idea applies  in medicine. If you don't want to know of a negative result, then don't order the test and have it documented on the patients chart. Then when you don't do something about it-it is negligence.If you want the
uncontrolled flow of drugs, then don't document the illegal boat traffic-unless you need to make a bust of course.

From what i've seen this Govt doesn't care about people getting murdered!Why would they be concerned with illegal boat activity?The only thing they want is a cut of the profits!Obviously they're protecting Paulus for some reason even at the expense of him being involved in the murder of an American girl!Wonder why that might be?Because he's involved knee-deep in the laundering of DRUG money!

This is a ridiculous post KTF IMO, maybe Paulus is involved with bin laden to

[Tamikosmom]

THE NIGHT THE LIGHTS WENT OUT

Dave Holloway
NANCY GRACE
April 24, 2006

GRACE: Well, Dave Holloway, aren`t there logs and isn`t there surveillance in place in Aruba of all the ships that go out of the tiny island, even at night?
 
HOLLOWAY: Well, there is but on one of those nights, I think it was June the 7th or June the 8th, the electricity went out on the island for about two hours so you wonder if that would have been the prime opportunity to do it. Small boats, I don`t think, can be picked up as well as the big ones.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/24/ng.01.html

[Keepthefaith]

Heck if they had a working radar system all those kilos wouldn't make it through....

I find it quite the opposite especially with a corrupt GOVT.They wanna know exactly where there money is at.No funny stuff!JMOO

I have to disagree. The same idea applies  in medicine. If you don't want to know of a negative result, then don't order the test and have it documented on the patients chart. Then when you don't do something about it-it is negligence.If you want the
uncontrolled flow of drugs, then don't document the illegal boat traffic-unless you need to make a bust of course.

From what i've seen this Govt doesn't care about people getting murdered!Why would they be concerned with illegal boat activity?The only thing they want is a cut of the profits!Obviously they're protecting Paulus for some reason even at the expense of him being involved in the murder of an American girl!Wonder why that might be?Because he's involved knee-deep in the laundering of DRUG money!

This is a ridiculous post KTF IMO, maybe Paulus is involved with bin laden to

Please explain why Bastibro.

[Tamikosmom]

ARUBA SPEAK - CHANGING STORIES

NOVEMBER, 2005

Radar-system not watertight
Amigoe
November 2005

ORANJESTAD - The radar-system that monitors the coastline is not watertight. People still manage to enter Aruba illegally from sea. This was stated by the general commander of Warda nos Costa, Gerold Dompig. His statement challenges the words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) who closed a lease contract for the radar equipment last year.

In June, July and August 2004 the radars were put into operation as a test. Vessels were placed out at sea to test the radar’s reach. The results were positive and the lease contract was signed till August 2007. A year later it becomes apparent that the radar’s efficiency is somewhat different in reality compared to the theoretical press presentation of Raytheon. Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompig’s statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. “The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.”

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/


MARCH, 2006

Natalee Holloway: New Clues
Investigator Tells 48 Hours She Probably Died From Excessive Alcohol, Maybe Drugs
March 25, 2006

But Dr. Ruben Cruz, the head of the island’s search and rescue team showed 48 Hours that an unweighted body thrown overboard near the shore would wash up on the beach.

Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldn’t happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore — a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.

Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/22/48hours/main1430644_page4.shtml


Radar-system not watertight
Amigoe
November 2005

ORANJESTAD - The radar-system that monitors the coastline is not watertight. People still manage to enter Aruba illegally from sea. This was stated by the general commander of Warda nos Costa, Gerold Dompig. His statement challenges the words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) who closed a lease contract for the radar equipment last year.

In June, July and August 2004 the radars were put into operation as a test. Vessels were placed out at sea to test the radar’s reach. The results were positive and the lease contract was signed till August 2007. A year later it becomes apparent that the radar’s efficiency is somewhat different in reality compared to the theoretical press presentation of Raytheon. Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompig’s statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. “The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.”

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/

[bastibro]

Heck if they had a working radar system all those kilos wouldn't make it through....

I find it quite the opposite especially with a corrupt GOVT.They wanna know exactly where there money is at.No funny stuff!JMOO

I have to disagree. The same idea applies  in medicine. If you don't want to know of a negative result, then don't order the test and have it documented on the patients chart. Then when you don't do something about it-it is negligence.If you want the
uncontrolled flow of drugs, then don't document the illegal boat traffic-unless you need to make a bust of course.

From what i've seen this Govt doesn't care about people getting murdered!Why would they be concerned with illegal boat activity?The only thing they want is a cut of the profits!Obviously they're protecting Paulus for some reason even at the expense of him being involved in the murder of an American girl!Wonder why that might be?Because he's involved knee-deep in the laundering of DRUG money!

This is a ridiculous post KTF IMO, maybe Paulus is involved with bin laden to

Please explain why Bastibro.

Paulus deviation is in the sexual, not in drug related things

[Tamikosmom]

ARUBA SPEAK - CHANGING STORIES

NOVEMBER, 2005

Radar-system not watertight
Amigoe
November 2005

ORANJESTAD - The radar-system that monitors the coastline is not watertight. People still manage to enter Aruba illegally from sea. This was stated by the general commander of Warda nos Costa, Gerold Dompig. His statement challenges the words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) who closed a lease contract for the radar equipment last year.

In June, July and August 2004 the radars were put into operation as a test. Vessels were placed out at sea to test the radar’s reach. The results were positive and the lease contract was signed till August 2007. A year later it becomes apparent that the radar’s efficiency is somewhat different in reality compared to the theoretical press presentation of Raytheon. Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompig’s statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. “The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.”

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/


MARCH, 2006

Natalee Holloway: New Clues
Investigator Tells 48 Hours She Probably Died From Excessive Alcohol, Maybe Drugs
March 25, 2006

But Dr. Ruben Cruz, the head of the island’s search and rescue team showed 48 Hours that an unweighted body thrown overboard near the shore would wash up on the beach.

Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldn’t happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore — a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.

Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/22/48hours/main1430644_page4.shtml

[Tamikosmom]

2NJSons_Mom ... please delete post 645.  I messed up again.

Thanks

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Heck if they had a working radar system all those kilos wouldn't make it through....

I find it quite the opposite especially with a corrupt GOVT.They wanna know exactly where there money is at.No funny stuff!JMOO

I have to disagree. The same idea applies  in medicine. If you don't want to know of a negative result, then don't order the test and have it documented on the patients chart. Then when you don't do something about it-it is negligence.If you want the
uncontrolled flow of drugs, then don't document the illegal boat traffic-unless you need to make a bust of course.

From what i've seen this Govt doesn't care about people getting murdered!Why would they be concerned with illegal boat activity?The only thing they want is a cut of the profits!Obviously they're protecting Paulus for some reason even at the expense of him being involved in the murder of an American girl!Wonder why that might be?Because he's involved knee-deep in the laundering of DRUG money!

This is a ridiculous post KTF IMO, maybe Paulus is involved with bin laden to

Please explain why Bastibro.

Paulus deviation is in the sexual, not in drug related things

I'm not implying Paulus uses drug's Bastibro.I'm implying that he cover's the tracks of Drug-cartel Money.Do we have evidence of his Sexual deviations???

[Buckeye]

bb

I do miss Dutch Lady.  I just think she needs to adjust her time of death since Private Eye said the phone call, in question, was from Saturday night.  Natalee might not have been alive at 3am  .

[Tamikosmom]

Heck if they had a working radar system all those kilos wouldn't make it through....

I find it quite the opposite especially with a corrupt GOVT.They wanna know exactly where there money is at.No funny stuff!JMOO

I have to disagree. The same idea applies  in medicine. If you don't want to know of a negative result, then don't order the test and have it documented on the patients chart. Then when you don't do something about it-it is negligence.If you want the
uncontrolled flow of drugs, then don't document the illegal boat traffic-unless you need to make a bust of course.

From what i've seen this Govt doesn't care about people getting murdered!Why would they be concerned with illegal boat activity?The only thing they want is a cut of the profits!Obviously they're protecting Paulus for some reason even at the expense of him being involved in the murder of an American girl!Wonder why that might be?Because he's involved knee-deep in the laundering of DRUG money!

This is a ridiculous post KTF IMO, maybe Paulus is involved with bin laden to

Please explain why Bastibro.

Paulus deviation is in the sexual, not in drug related things

 

bastibro ... why is keepthefaith's speculation "riduculous".  Do you have any backup source to confirm your claim?

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Bastibro.Do you understand i'm not saying Paulus uses drugs?I'm saying that he may be involved in cleaning the drug money.

[Keepthefaith]

I posed the question in regards to Paulus and Antonio Carlo's relationship.Who owe's who in this relationship.Kermit's response Was

Kermit

"How else would you protect money laundering, heroin....

Mark Purcell's wife, Marlene Purcell along with Antonio Carlos are involved in the AHATAboard as well.
Antonio Carlos worked for Johan Paul Sjiem Fat, Sjiem Fat & Sjiem Fat, Aruba

 Paulus Van der Sloot participated on a panel which agreed to extradite two relatives of the Mansurs to the US under serious charges some years back

Antonio Carlos worked for the gov't and banks in Aruba."

[Buckeye]

I think Natalee died at the Sloots.  I think Joran and Paulus share more than porn. I believe the early gate theory..that she fell trying to get away. Originally, I think they placed her near the Racquet Club/Mangroves and then made up the Holiday Inn story, to blame a security guard for her demise (they knew she would be found).  When they were confronted with not being on the HI tape, they decided it was best to get rid of the body.  That would have been Monday night.

[San]

Help me out here--didn't someone provide documentation that the radar was turned off the night Natalee disappeared?

Still drinking my coffee this morning as it is bitterly cold today and I can't recall where we read that but it was fairly well established to be truth.

Anyone?

YES I'm looking for proof.

I think this article answers some of our questions:

Gerold Dompig during his CBS 48 Hours interview stated that experiments were done with dummies being thrown over board in the water; every time they drifted back to shore. The only way this would not occur was if a boat sailed more than two miles off shore. Dompig then stated, “a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape. Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished“.


---------

So their radar will only capture boats who go out farther than two miles (could answer our question about having chosen the location the trap was found in)

If we believe Dompig - every boat that was out past those two miles was accounted for, at least on the night of May 29/early morning May 30th

To cloud the issue of the radar even more,

I believe it was Jossy who recently stated in an interview, maybe with Greta, that the police had turned off the radar on the night Natalee disappeared.

Good day monkeys!

I seem to remember Jossy saying "they were ordered to turn it off".

[bastibro]

Bastibro.Do you understand i'm not saying Paulus uses drugs?I'm saying that he may be involved in cleaning the drug money.

LOL Yes, i did read your post before i reacted. I just know that isn t the case.
And evidence . . do you have any? i'm telling you the man has a sexual deviation

[San]

I think Natalee died at the Sloots.  I think Joran and Paulus share more than porn. I believe the early gate theory..that she fell trying to get away. Originally, I think they placed her near the Racquet Club/Mangroves and then made up the Holiday Inn story, to blame a security guard for her demise (they knew she would be found).  When they were confronted with not being on the HI tape, they decided it was best to get rid of the body.  That would have been Monday night.

I'm still catching up but I saw this post after I made mine.

Buckeye I agree with everything you said except I believe what VietVet said that Joran hit her with a bat.

[San]

Paulus and Joran are the murderers.

You don't have a premediated charge thrown at you for nothing.

[Tamikosmom]

bastibro

I speculate that Paulus' is connected the industries encompassing Aruba's underground economy and ... it does appear he had already introduced his son to some of the aspects of the business.

Dispicable!!

The Island of Aruba did not anticipate the strength and determination of a mother by the name of Beth Holloway Twitty. By the time that Aruba realized that this amazing woman was not about to be silenced until her quest for answers regarding her precious daughter were answered … it was too late to turn back. It was no longer just about protecting Paulus and Joran in regards to their role in the events that encompass that fateful morning.  It was now about protecting those at all levels of the Aruban/Dutch administrations who were involved in the coverup … it was now about protecting the sons of the elite … it was now about protecting the judiciary and … it was now about the implications of exposing Michael Posner's little secrets in regards to organized crime … drugs … gambling … prostitution … pornography … money laundering.

What was the real Joran/Paulus/Posner connection?

Why was underage Joran permitted entry to the Excelsior Casino?

Why was underage Joran permitted to drink alcohol and gambling at the Excelsior Casino?

Why was underage Joran afforded a line of credit at the Excelsior Casino?

Why did Michael Posner hire American attorney Joe Tacopina to represent Joran?

Why did Michael Posner hire a private investigator to search for Natalee Holloway?

Why did Paulus not face any consequences for accompanying his underage son to a casino for the purpose of gambling and drinking?

Janet

+++++++++

Aruban casino boss had ties to Chicago mob
Thursday, February 23, 2006 | 6:07 PM
Missing Alabama teen last seen at casino
By Chuck Goudie

February 23, 2006 (WLS) -- Authorities on the island of Aruba have not been able to solve the mystery of what happened to Alabama teenager Natalie Holloway. She disappeared while on a high school trip last spring. The ABC7 I-Team has learned new details about the casino where Holloway was last seen, an Aruba casino run by a convicted high-ranking Chicago mobster.

The unsolved disappearance of 18-year-old Natalie Holloway has commanded worldwide attention. It has been widely reported that the last place Holloway was known to be alive was the Excelsior casino connected to the Holiday Inn where she and her classmates were staying.
 
The I-Team has learned that the casino where Holloway was last seen is operated by Chicagoan Michael Posner. The intelligence report on Posner lists him as a prominent member of the Chicago outfit for more than 40 years.

According to federal law enforcement, Michael Posner's most recent mob assignment was boss of illegal rackets in the north suburbs. Posner was convicted in 1987 of threatening wayward gamblers with death and running prostitutes out of this Lake County strip club.

Through his Chicago lawyer, Posner maintains that he has been clean for 15 years and since 1998 has operated the Excelsior casino on the Caribbean resort on the island of Aruba.
 
Last May, honor student Natalie Holloway was staying at the resort on her high school graduation trip when she disappeared. One of the last places she was seen alive was in Posner's Excelsior casino.
 
In security tape obtained by ABC News, Holloway is seen at a table seated next to Joran van der Sloot, a local who is the prime suspect in the case.

Van der Slout admits having had a romantic encounter with Holloway, but in an exclusive interview to air Thursday night on Primetime, he says he is no criminal.

"I think I've been portrayed unfairly. I've been portrayed as a murderer and a rapist and everything that I'm not," van der Sloot said.

Casino boss Michael Posner denies that he knows van der Sloot and denies ever extending him casino credit.

Posner's lawyer Allan Ackerman says Posner was in Chicago when Holloway vanished and returned to Aruba the day after.
 
Now 64 years old, here's the intelligence report on Michael William Posner:

* aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein.

* his family still resides in Riverwoods.
 
* his criminal profile lists involvement in illegal gambling, strip clubs and vending machines.

* criminal history dates to 1960 includes numerous arrests and successful tax and racketeering prosecutions.
 
Posner says it was he who voluntarily turned over this casino surveillance tape to Aruban authorities and that he is furious they have allowed ABC News to broadcast it.

Posner says he has paid the expenses for private investigators to come here and assist in the search for Holloway and according to his lawyer: "He has nothin' to do with nothing" in the murder case.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=investigative&id=3936339


DANA PRETZER
July 23, 2007

Dana: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.   I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/07/23/the-dana-pretzer-show-monday-july-23rd-2007-special-guests-larry-sinclair-jossy-mansur-ladonna-meredith-attorney-jay-paul-deratany/


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Sept. 19th
updated 6:33 a.m. PT, Tues., Sept. 20, 2005

COPUS:  Well this guy has that casino.  He‘s alleged to have organized crime ties back to Chicago.  And you can say alleged, he‘s actually served time.  He‘s been convicted.  So he comes up into Aruba and is able to get a gambling casino.  At the same time, we‘re told that Joran and his dad both are gambling there.  It really makes you wonder how that‘s happening and how they got this line of credit. 

COSBY:  Yes.  And a big, big line of credit.  Beth, I know you‘ve actually been to the casino, right?  And Michael Posner threatened you, is that correct? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Well, there was a phone call made.  And it was just really having me refer to—you know, I‘d only mentioned the fact I had gotten from prosecuting attorney as far as the open line of credit, and that Joran is in his casino gambling, and I don‘t think there was ever a question that Joran and Paulus Van Der Sloot had been in that Excelsior Casino, and, particularly, on the night of the 29th where he and his father met Natalee. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9407728/


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for April 3
updated 8:24 a.m. PT, Tues., April. 4, 2006

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times.  And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39:  Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."   My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied to them.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't staying here.


Katherine (Madison) Whatley
FBI Statement
July 12, 2005

After swimming at the hotel on Sunday, WHATLEY and other classmates, including HOLLOWAY, ate dinner at a restaurant next to the hotel. After dinner they went to the casino at the hotel. A few classmates were gambling at a card table along with an "older man" and YURON VAN DER SLOOT. (Whatley 302)

Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
December 14, 2006

DANA: When you look at this case, a question keeps coming up. I am looking at the picture on my PC. It is the alleged picture of a person in the casino with Natalee that looks a lot like Paul. Has there been any update on this issue?

JOSSY: There have not been any change of opinion. People, including people in the casino say that is Paul.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2006/12/14/the-dana-pretzer-show-december-14th-2006-jossy-mansur/


Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 10, 2005

To your question as to what role Joran plays in our circle of friends, I can state the following. He has no real role. We are all the same.

To your question as to where we take the girls we pick up, I can state the following. Sometimes the girls stay at "Carlos & Charlies" or sometimes we take them to their hotel.

To your question was to what exactly happens when we have picked up the girls, I can state the following. Just kissing and dancing.

To your question whether sexual intercourse has happened, I can state the following. Yes, it has happened.

To your question whether it ever happened that all of us, so in one room, had sexual intercourse, I can state the following. It has happened.


Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 13, 2005

Andre asked me to come inside. I did go inside. I did not play, but did look at the cards of Joran and Guido.

At some given moment in time a tourist who was sitting at Joran's table got angry. The tourist thought that we were looking at the cards of other players and signaling/deciding for Joran when he should play or not. It lead to a disagreement between Joran and the tourist. The manager of the Radisson Casino came over and everything calmed down. I drank about four "whisky coke" gedronken in the Radisson Casino.  I now that Joran drank more because the waiters were constantly bringing him drinks.   I am not sure .what he was drinking. His drinks were of a yellow colour. I think it was “whisky soda" or 'Whisky water".