Caylee Marie Anthony #92 1/15/09 - 1/17/09

[cheeky monkey]

I would love to know more about Casey's early childhood.  Not as an excuse for her actions but rather some insight.  She seems so far removed and stunted emotionally.  I guess it leads back to nature versus nurture but wow, she would be an interesting study.  Even her balled up fist and face she makes looks like a mad toddler.  Can anyone post that picture again please - I swear it about sums up her emotional age.

PLEASE don't take the above as my making any sort of excuse for her actions either.  I'm not AT all.

Cheeky, I had a sister like that.  She didn't kill anyone but the rule in our house was "Don't upset Joan."  She had a terrible temper and would go to any lengths to get even for real or imagined slights.  Toward the end of her life, my husband and I had no communication with her because of her compulsion to be in charge of everyone.  When she died, she cut one of her children completely out of her will--this was the child who always was there for her when she was sick or needed help.  Probably if Casey were not going to spend the rest of her life in jail, she would live her life basically like that.

It is sad.  I've really gone back and forth about my feelings for Cindy and George.  But it was clear in that conversation, to me anyway, that she had kidnapped Caylee from them.  She was holding information about Caylee as a ransom.  A ransom for their support for their continued obedience and loyalty to her.  I am so glad that Caylee was found.  For her own sake but for the extended family as well.  I'm sure Caylee's great grandparents and great aunt and uncles loved her dearly.  I think George and Cindy did also and I hope that they can get it together and stand by Caylee and make that their priority.  They just need to realize that they don't have to convince everyone of Casey's innocence to stand by her.  Unfortuantly, they may be in it to deep at this point.

[peanut]

good morning monkeys!

i want to thank everyone for the warm welcome yesterday and id like to apologize to anyone i may have missed saying thanks to. i dont type very quickly and this place moves so fast at times that i just miss stuff. ill get the hang of it eventually i promise.


sociopaths arent capable of the same kind of emotions as normal people, thats why at a fairly young age they learn how to read people and situations and ape the 'proper' emotions. they usually become fairly good at this, however casey was in a situation where she had no point of reference to copy. its evident in both of her interviews with le and her first few jailhouse visit videos and phone calls.

once jose got hold of her and told her she had to look like she cared and to use caylees name rather than referring to her as 'my child' , 'my kid' and 'my daughter' (all indicative of how she saw caylee...she was her possession and bargaining chip). as we can see from later visitation videos she tries to act like she cares, asking about the various tshirts ca and ga have worn, how her grandparents are doing etc. the problem for her is tho she now knows what to say she doesnt know how to mimic the appropriate emotions and we see her total disinterest coming thru. the tshirts are really nice. too bad about grandma plesea. i just want my daughter back.
 
casy will NEVER admit to what she did. in one of her first visitations cindy asks her about zanny and if anyone else could be involved. caseys answer is very telling, she tells her she doesnt know but there could be, and she adds that if there are 'she hopes theyre stupid enough to say something'. she has no remorse, no guilt and as she said she 'hasnt done anything wrong. and shes a 'victim' too.

just my two cents with some bananas thrown if for good measure.



 

Welcome peanut...I can't believe I missed such a pretty kitty 

I know nothing about sociopaths except what I'm learning from some very smart kittys monkeys...where does it start...I've read a lot here about their behavior but I'm getting the impression that it's something they are born with ??? 

thank you sea searcher!

it is the general consensus that they are born that way. im not implying that early trauma might not compounded it, but i think people want explanations and sometimes there just arent any.

[Sea Searcher]

Please no nanner throwing TYIA!  In regards to the Bible verses, which I will have to go back and listen to again because I missed that part, but one poster said it was "Thou shalt not kill" and something else that struck me as something a child would learn in first grade vacation bible school and not something that someone would reference that had been reading the bible for comfort for 30 days.  JMO, Lovin

P.S.  Muffy, I hope this isn't to "religious" for this forum thread, if so, I apologize.

I didn't hear her say "Thou shall not kill," but that is one of the biggies.

I think that was just a comment another poster made in sarcasm when KC used the do unto others line...I 'm pretty sure

Okay, SS.  Are you now telling me that I'm hearing things?   

  Did you hear KC say this ?? I might have missed it.. 

[Golden Oldie]

I know this is obvious but she is so strange.  When she's all emotional about being in jail and not being able to tell anyone anything, she says something along the lines of I've been here a month, not able to talk to anyone, out of the loop, blah, blah, blah then says, "What I'm I supposed to learn from that".

It seems clear to me that she has absolutely no remorse for what she did.  I think she'd still be out at parties if it wasn't for that pesky murder charge.  She seems so very dangerous - especially tiny defenseless children.

Wow, you just reminded me that when I heard that comment "What am I supposed to learn from that?" it was a double-take moment for me as well. It's soo all about her in her mind, she's been put in jail to teach her a lesson, like she's been given a "timeout" for getting rid of Caylee. She is so sure she's not going to be spending her life behind bars, this is just a temporary, inconvenient setback inflicted on poor KC by unfeeling LE who refuse to see her as a victim as well.

YES!! Like, she's saying, "Okay I get it.  I sat in the corner.  Whatever, why can't everyone see that I was justified in doing what I had to do.  Caylee was mine, not yours.  It was my problem.  I took care of it.  Life goes on, I can't change it.  Take it back?  Of course, I wish that.  Are you kidding?  Do you understand?  If I hadn't killed her this inconvenience of oh, jail, wouldn't be happening.  But then again I wouldn't have met some of the incredible people (my attorney) that I've met.   Sure maybe I'd still have Tony but on the other hand, I'm kinda glad I now know that he is so terribly unsupportive.  I mean really if a guy I've been sleeping with for a whole two months can't stand by me on a stupid murder charge, was that really gonna last?  I mean come on!" 

Balls up fist and makes face.  Wipes tear away.  REPEAT.

Cheeky Monk, I like the way you interpret.  Couldn't have been better said.   

[Kimmy53]

I can't figure out why Casey seems to have such faith in Jose.  I'm sure she watched some of the coverage while she was out those few weeks.  She has to realize that he doesn't, at least in the press, seem to be held out as the worlds greatest attorney.  She hasn't been with him that much in Court to observe him.  He hasn't been practicing long enough to have a impressive record or even much experience.  He hasn't had any high profile past clients that he's gotten off.  So why does she seem so confident in someone that she located after getting a recommendation from strangers in booking?

Is it because of the money factor?  Is it something else?  Is he telling her what she wants to hear?  I'm don't get it.  Her family has all but said to her during visitation they don't like him.    Heck, maybe that is it.

Cheeky Monk, remember that KC spent week after week alone with Biaz in his office.  Although it can't be proved, one can imagine what transpired.  She is totally enamored of him.  He has only fed her info that he wants her to know or believe, and has convinced her, for his own personal/financial gain, not to trust anyone else but him.  It wouldn't have taken a rocket scientists to convince her not to have contact with the outside world because the news media would have a field day with it.  Anyway, that's just my opinion.   

I totally agree.  Casey sees Jose as a "powerful" person.  He has NO doubt fed her a line. 

The fact that George and Cindy don't like him only makes her want him more.  I bet it was the same way when she'd bring a boyfriend home they didn't like.

Baez is quite comfortable with the control he has right now... Dollar signs are popping in his head.  IMO he has already drained alot of the funds. 

I would bet that when the trial is over and the experts on his defense team want to be paid, they will play hell collecting....if they ever do.

[anothermonkey]

On a side note, know that prayers are offered for your loved ones.  May I suggest DanActive Immunity for your little one.  It helps put the intestinal tract in order.  Can be found in the dairy section of your grocery store. Packages of 4 or 8 three ounce size servings (vanilla, strawberry, peach, blueberry). Tastes like  'liquid cheesecake'. 

  sounds horrible but I'm not a cheesecake person  Thanks for the suggestion...he seems much better now and would have gone to school this morning if the pipes didn't burst..(I suspect one of the techers snuck in and loosened the bolt so they could get a 4 day weekend  )

Odd just seems to be the theme running through this whole case..

I've been taking them since about May of '97... they help tremendously with upset stomachs.. I've been on long-term antibiotic treatment for Lyme Disease.  They taste good and really do work! (I wouldn't say they taste like cheesecake, though. Just like drinking yogurt).

[Babybear]

I know this is obvious but she is so strange.  When she's all emotional about being in jail and not being able to tell anyone anything, she says something along the lines of I've been here a month, not able to talk to anyone, out of the loop, blah, blah, blah then says, "What I'm I supposed to learn from that".

It seems clear to me that she has absolutely no remorse for what she did.  I think she'd still be out at parties if it wasn't for that pesky murder charge.  She seems so very dangerous - especially tiny defenseless children.

Wow, you just reminded me that when I heard that comment "What am I supposed to learn from that?" it was a double-take moment for me as well. It's soo all about her in her mind, she's been put in jail to teach her a lesson, like she's been given a "timeout" for getting rid of Caylee. She is so sure she's not going to be spending her life behind bars, this is just a temporary, inconvenient setback inflicted on poor KC by unfeeling LE who refuse to see her as a victim as well.

YES!! Like, she's saying, "Okay I get it.  I sat in the corner.  Whatever, why can't everyone see that I was justified in doing what I had to do.  Caylee was mine, not yours.  It was my problem.  I took care of it.  Life goes on, I can't change it.  Take it back?  Of course, I wish that.  Are you kidding?  Do you understand?  If I hadn't killed her this inconvenience of oh, jail, wouldn't be happening.  But then again I wouldn't have met some of the incredible people (my attorney) that I've met.   Sure maybe I'd still have Tony but on the other hand, I'm kinda glad I now know that he is so terribly unsupportive.  I mean really if a guy I've been sleeping with for a whole two months can't stand by me on a stupid murder charge, was that really gonna last?  I mean come on!" 

Balls up fist and makes face.  Wipes tear away.  REPEAT.

LOL.  Very good.

[OriginalKat]

Please no nanner throwing TYIA!  In regards to the Bible verses, which I will have to go back and listen to again because I missed that part, but one poster said it was "Thou shalt not kill" and something else that struck me as something a child would learn in first grade vacation bible school and not something that someone would reference that had been reading the bible for comfort for 30 days.  JMO, Lovin

P.S.  Muffy, I hope this isn't to "religious" for this forum thread, if so, I apologize.

I didn't hear her say "Thou shall not kill," but that is one of the biggies.

I think she missed quite a few of the Ten Commandments.

[no rose colored glasses]

I would love to know more about Casey's early childhood.  Not as an excuse for her actions but rather some insight.  She seems so far removed and stunted emotionally.  I guess it leads back to nature versus nurture but wow, she would be an interesting study.  Even her balled up fist and face she makes looks like a mad toddler.  Can anyone post that picture again please - I swear it about sums up her emotional age.

PLEASE don't take the above as my making any sort of excuse for her actions either.  I'm not AT all.

I would like to know more about her childhood also, I know people think she is a sociopath, and it does seem to fit her. She does seem stunted emotionally, and I'm wondering if something traumatic happened to her? The one thing that really puzzels me is how did she keep all her lies, and esp the job lies going with all these different people? That is one of the reasons that I don't think she is dumb or lazy, that actually took a lot of effort and time, to keep this going, about the nanny, her job, all of her lies straight. I also am not making any excuses for her behavior and actions. I would also like to know how she fit in at grade school, and junior high and her grades.

Saying this from personal experience...my ex too is a sociopath.  Of above average intelligence but chose to use that intelligence to further his sociopathic behaviors, not focus on putting that intelligence to productive use like furthering education or getting a proper job.  I think KC focused her intelligence on manipulating people for her own personal gain.  It was a game to her.

Very interesting, do they actually believe all their lies are the truth, so in that way they are not to blame for any wrong doing. Where they can actually make themselves believe they have done nothing wrong.

[darla]

I would love to know more about Casey's early childhood.  Not as an excuse for her actions but rather some insight.  She seems so far removed and stunted emotionally.  I guess it leads back to nature versus nurture but wow, she would be an interesting study.  Even her balled up fist and face she makes looks like a mad toddler.  Can anyone post that picture again please - I swear it about sums up her emotional age.

PLEASE don't take the above as my making any sort of excuse for her actions either.  I'm not AT all.

I would like to know more about her childhood also, I know people think she is a sociopath, and it does seem to fit her. She does seem stunted emotionally, and I'm wondering if something traumatic happened to her? The one thing that really puzzels me is how did she keep all her lies, and esp the job lies going with all these different people? That is one of the reasons that I don't think she is dumb or lazy, that actually took a lot of effort and time, to keep this going, about the nanny, her job, all of her lies straight. I also am not making any excuses for her behavior and actions. I would also like to know how she fit in at grade school, and junior high and her grades.

Saying this from personal experience...my ex too is a sociopath.  Of above average intelligence but chose to use that intelligence to further his sociopathic behaviors, not focus on putting that intelligence to productive use like furthering education or getting a proper job.  I think KC focused her intelligence on manipulating people for her own personal gain.  It was a game to her.

My ex couldn't hold a job either. but it was never his fault..they never appreciated his intelligence. He was also Chief of Police in our town. Locked up people for DUI and would be drunker than they were. Not taking up for the Anthony's in anyway, but I do understand the walking on eggshells. I did it for 9 yrs. That was 30 yrs ago and I still bear the emotional and physical scars. KC should never be allowed outside of bars again.

[anothermonkey]

ITA, Cheekymonkey & others!  Difficult to remember, for me anyway, that KC does not "think" as we do, ie we are not sociopaths.  Her disassociation from Caylee did not start on June 16th, imo.

Good Point.  It makes you wonder if she ever felt attached to her.   JMO, but I do believe she enjoyed being pregnant - she was getting more attention than ever before.

Remember that she didn't disclose her pregnancy until late in the 2nd tri-mester.  I think that once she had Caylee things were good because that's when she got some attention.  Once the newness wore out and it became a job/routine she became bored with it and later wanted "her" party life.

Makes you wonder why she didn't reveal the pregnancy earlier.. she could have milked it way more than she did.

[Babybear]

I don't know if this has ever been discussed.  In the interviews LE had with Casey when she took them to her so-called "Office", they confronted her on her not having been employed since 2006.  She went on to discuss her phones.  Said one was supplied to her for work.  What work?  Why would she go on and on about that when they knew she didn't have a job?  I would have thought they would have stopped her right in her statement on this. Did I miss something? 

 

If you missed something, so did I.  She just continued on and on about how she reported the loss of the phone to "Security" as if she had not already told LE she didn't really work at Universal.  I wondered why they didn't stop her too.  They just went along with her. And also in a conversation with Lee she talked about the phone and her work and how she had seen someone at Universal and he said "Was it work or play," as if he too forget she didn't have a job. 

I've always assumed that we don't have the whole interview.  I think they let her go on with her ruse for a while just to see if they could get some additional information.  I'm certain they eventually called her out ... I just don't think that has been released as it may be used at trial.

You could be right. I hope they stopped her at some point.

I'm sure we've all heard the phrase "give 'em enough rope and they'll hang themselves."  That's what I think they were doing.  If they challenged her at every turn, she'd adjust everything she says.  She'd also have more wiggle room to say she was coerced into saying something particular or possibly change the tune just a bit when she knows they don't believe her.  They let her run with it and tighten the noose more and more with every lie.  The best way to get information out of anyone is to just allow them to talk.  They'll say things you never expected and give you some real insight into where their head is.  My favorite tactic is the "dumb" approach.  "I am a dumb monkey and just don't get it.  Could you help me understand please?" 

Yes, I understand your point but if I remember correctly, the conversation about the lost phone came after she was confronted with the fact that she brought them to Universal and she didn't even work there.  Maybe I remember it wrong.

[cheeky monkey]

I would love to know more about Casey's early childhood.  Not as an excuse for her actions but rather some insight.  She seems so far removed and stunted emotionally.  I guess it leads back to nature versus nurture but wow, she would be an interesting study.  Even her balled up fist and face she makes looks like a mad toddler.  Can anyone post that picture again please - I swear it about sums up her emotional age.

PLEASE don't take the above as my making any sort of excuse for her actions either.  I'm not AT all.

Cheeky, I had a sister like that.  She didn't kill anyone but the rule in our house was "Don't upset Joan."  She had a terrible temper and would go to any lengths to get even for real or imagined slights.  Toward the end of her life, my husband and I had no communication with her because of her compulsion to be in charge of everyone.  When she died, she cut one of her children completely out of her will--this was the child who always was there for her when she was sick or needed help.  Probably if Casey were not going to spend the rest of her life in jail, she would live her life basically like that.

I don't think she was dumb at all but I do think she was lazy.  I believe that she also feels she is a lot smarter than she is.  I really am not that impressed with her lies.  Initially, I thought she was a great liar but the more I've listened the less impressive it seems.  She lies easily and readily but I don't think that makes her a good liar.  She sounds convincing but all her lies are incredibly easy to disprove.  I honestly don't think she had often been challenged or called on what she said.  On the rare occassion she was I think she just continued to lie.  The fact that she says that things she says with authority probably help make the lies sound more convincing but had Cindy and George not been there (right or wrong) to cover for her stealing and lies, I think she would have had a lot more problems with LE prior to this.  Who knows, maybe she did as a juvenile.

[Golden Oldie]

Please no nanner throwing TYIA!  In regards to the Bible verses, which I will have to go back and listen to again because I missed that part, but one poster said it was "Thou shalt not kill" and something else that struck me as something a child would learn in first grade vacation bible school and not something that someone would reference that had been reading the bible for comfort for 30 days.  JMO, Lovin

P.S.  Muffy, I hope this isn't to "religious" for this forum thread, if so, I apologize.

I didn't hear her say "Thou shall not kill," but that is one of the biggies.

I think that was just a comment another poster made in sarcasm when KC used the do unto others line...I 'm pretty sure

Okay, SS.  Are you now telling me that I'm hearing things?   

  Did you hear KC say this ?? I might have missed it.. 

SS, I swear I did.  Oh my.  Now I'm going to have to go back and listen to that LONG crazy tape, again.  I need to go take a couple of Asprin and get a cigarette first. 

[peanut]

I don't know if this has ever been discussed.  In the interviews LE had with Casey when she took them to her so-called "Office", they confronted her on her not having been employed since 2006.  She went on to discuss her phones.  Said one was supplied to her for work.  What work?  Why would she go on and on about that when they knew she didn't have a job?  I would have thought they would have stopped her right in her statement on this. Did I miss something? 

 

If you missed something, so did I.  She just continued on and on about how she reported the loss of the phone to "Security" as if she had not already told LE she didn't really work at Universal.  I wondered why they didn't stop her too.  They just went along with her. And also in a conversation with Lee she talked about the phone and her work and how she had seen someone at Universal and he said "Was it work or play," as if he too forget she didn't have a job. 

I've always assumed that we don't have the whole interview.  I think they let her go on with her ruse for a while just to see if they could get some additional information.  I'm certain they eventually called her out ... I just don't think that has been released as it may be used at trial.

You could be right. I hope they stopped her at some point.

I'm sure we've all heard the phrase "give 'em enough rope and they'll hang themselves."  That's what I think they were doing.  If they challenged her at every turn, she'd adjust everything she says.  She'd also have more wiggle room to say she was coerced into saying something particular or possibly change the tune just a bit when she knows they don't believe her.  They let her run with it and tighten the noose more and more with every lie.  The best way to get information out of anyone is to just allow them to talk.  They'll say things you never expected and give you some real insight into where their head is.  My favorite tactic is the "dumb" approach.  "I am a dumb monkey and just don't get it.  Could you help me understand please?" 

Yes, I understand your point but if I remember correctly, the conversation about the lost phone came after she was confronted with the fact that she brought them to Universal and she didn't even work there.  Maybe I remember it wrong.

it was in her first interview with le.

[Hiding Monkey]

Babybear-you're right.  It's just been said that people think that the LE are letting her run with the lies and they'll tighten the noose more and more with every lie.

[Lovinlife]

((((Hugs)))) Darla! 

lovin

[wendiw8780]

morning monkeys? still not caught up but wanted to visit before i have to our closing. just wondering if this had been discussed, first KC said she had the worst day ever on Caylee's birthday, & read her bible all day, then she tells Cindy that she is not allowed to have her bible, so did she have another bible. maybe one she got from the jail? sorry, if this has been answered, hubby wanted dinner AGAIN last nite & couln't get caught up. tia.

by the way i'm sooooo cold.

wendi

Mornin' Wendi.... saw your post yesterday and Thanks

What happened to you ? you not only change clothes, you changed species 

Maybe I missed it but I didn't even hear them refer to it as Caylee's Birthday...George just said "last Saturday" 

Many contradictions in the video..when we get a transcript..I'm sure the monkeys will list them all out 

yeah, SeaSearcher, i just, but i've got something coming for you pretty soon. just wait! i know how like the kitties! when Brandi gets done fixin' me up, you want be able to resist me! hope you're doing well!

wendi

[Hiding Monkey]

ITA, Cheekymonkey & others!  Difficult to remember, for me anyway, that KC does not "think" as we do, ie we are not sociopaths.  Her disassociation from Caylee did not start on June 16th, imo.

Good Point.  It makes you wonder if she ever felt attached to her.   JMO, but I do believe she enjoyed being pregnant - she was getting more attention than ever before.

Remember that she didn't disclose her pregnancy until late in the 2nd tri-mester.  I think that once she had Caylee things were good because that's when she got some attention.  Once the newness wore out and it became a job/routine she became bored with it and later wanted "her" party life.

Makes you wonder why she didn't reveal the pregnancy earlier.. she could have milked it way more than she did.

Probably got more satisfaction knowing that she was pulling one over on her parents!

[dottie]

Okay Guys, if anyone has ANY doubt that Casey Anthony is a SOCIOPATH at this point; Please read the following! She is absolutely textbook! All of these defining terms are interchangeable: sociopath/psychopath/anti-social personality. if you have not read the book: "The Sociopath Nextdoor" & want to completely understand the mind of a sociopath; PLEASE DO SO! PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From page 107. After listening for almost 25 years to the stories my patients tell me about sociopaths who have invaded and injured their lives, when I am asked, "How can I tell whom not to trust?" the answer I give usually surprises people. The natural expectation is that I will describe some sinister-sounding detail of behavior or snippet of body language or threatening use of language that is the subtle give-away. Instead, I take people aback by assuring them that the tip-off is none of these things, for none of these things is reliably present. Rather, the best clue is, of all things, THE PITY PLAY. The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness. It is, PERVERSELY, an appeal to our sympathy.



She goes on to talk about a sociopath she interviewed, asking "What is important in your life?" "What do you want more than anything else?" He told her without a moment's hesitation, "Oh, that's easy. What I like better than anything else is when people feel sorry for me. The thing I really want more than anything else out of life is people's pity."
She was astonished & mystified; Why would this man--why would anyone--wish to be pitied, let alone wish to be pitied ABOVE ALL OTHER AMBITIONS? She came to this conclusion:

From page 108. I realize there is an excellent reason for the sociopathic fondness for PITY. As obvious as the nose on one's face, and just as difficult to see without the help of a mirror, the explanation is THAT GOOD PEOPLE WILL LET PATHETIC INDIVIDUALS GETBY WITH MURDER, so to speak, and therefore any ETsociopath wishing to continue with his game, whatever it happens to be, should play repeatedly for none other than PITY.

More than admiration--more even than fear--pity from good people is carte blanche. When we pity, we are, at least for the moment, defenseless, and like so many of the other essentially positive human characteristics that bind us together in groups--social and professional roles, sexual bonds, regard for the compassionate and the creative, respect for our leaders--our emotional vunerability when we pity is USED AGAINST US BY THOSE WHO HAVE NO CONSCIENCE.
Pity and sympathy are forces for good when they are reactions to deserving people who have fallen on misfortune. But when these sentiments are wrested out of us by the undeserving, by people whose behavior is consistently anti-social, this is a sure sign that something is wrong, a potentially useful DANGER SIGNAL THAT WE OFTEN OVERLOOK.

She gives examples: The violent husband who batters his wife & then moans & cries that he is a poor wretch & cannot control himself & needs her forgiveness. From the Nazi death camps, some guards wanted sympathy for having to endure the "smell" and had difficulty eating their lunch! One man wanted sympathy because he was forced to "break someone's arm"
A good CASEY related ex.: A woman in prison, complained society was preventing her from taking proper care of her children; she was executed for the grisly murder of an elderly woman.

From page 109. In retrospect, sociopathic appeals for pity are preposterous and chilling. Sociopaths have no regard whatsoever for the social contract, but they do know how to use it to their advantage. AND ALL IN ALL, I AM SURE THAT IF THE DEVIL EXISTED, HEWOULD WANT US TO FEEL VERY SORRY FOR HIM.HE

Very interesting post, Monken!  Thanks for bringing this info to us.  It's really very scary....gives me chills!