Caylee Marie Anthony #93 1/16/09 - 1/19/09

[Lovinlife]

I'm here FWIW Islandmonkey!  Took a nap this afternoon and now I can't sleep.  Was offline all weekend and worked hard to get caught up.  Not much new news I see?

Lovin

Hi Lovin~ it's good to see you, are you thawed out yet??

It is 3 deg right now but today it got up into the 20's.  I know it sounds funny but 20 felt really good!  Still no sunshine, that's what gets to me.  The gray skys for weeks on end...

It is supposed to warm up (yet not above freezing) this week and Thursday the sun is supposed to come out! 

[Foggy Dew]

Poor Tony is probably too afraid to talk to any girls anymore.

Something tells me ... Tony & Casey's relationship had very little to do with talking.   

I know some people think she was really smart ... IMO ... she's just been really lucky so far in her short life ... and that is about to end.  A little thing called Karma.

And here I was trying to be "polite" I don't give her credit for smarts either, the Ants just conditioned her to think she was because they always gave her a free pass on all her lies.

Tony has a new girlfriend. I think they've been an item since August. He didn't waste any time. The girl's very cute and works at Fusion. She's that short little brunette with the very pretty face and figure--a lot prettier than Casey, but about Casey's height.

Should we send KC a picture of them together?  Sounds like a plan to me !!!

Now see, that'd be like tapping a hornet's nest w/a stick in mid-summer.  And God forbid she get's out and has a list of new enemies (real or imagined).  No monkeys know the extent (depth?) of alleged perps pathology, so messing w/her might not be advisable.

But we can dream...

I am a hunter and a searcher, that might not be her "best" thought out idea. Not everyone is 2 years old an afraid.

Yeah, and I'm a country girl with an attitude problem.  I would have opened a can of whoop A$$ on this girl if I was LE.  I still don't get the few interrogations I've read, but I can only hope there was a method to their "madness".

I have a friend who is LE.  I asked him what he thought about the cadaver search and he replied that it was by the book and the dogs had had legit hits.  Knowing my friend and his experience in LE dog training I considered alleged perp guilty and have tried to give alleged perp the benefit of the doubt.  But although I do retain some sympathy for CA/GA, I cannot imagine any circumstance that'd excuse KC/her actions and the subsequent discovery of her daughter's remains.

I don't much care about about alleged perps family unless they were part of Caylees's demise.  If any of 'em were part of a cover-up, let the chips fall where they may.  I'm confident that justice will be served for Caylee.  And she will never be forgotten.

[Desdemona]

Hi Wyks, Green Eyes, Rowanvamp0, CarolynV, Cappuccino, islandmonkey, Lovinlife, klaasend, seemeatthebeach, NO1ZLADIE, CBB, janetruth, cecilita, zoeandme, dottie, Foggy Dew, SADVAL2, heykim, jammsnana and 29 Guests

Your monkey friend Desi is tired tonight, but wanted to express appreciation.

Been reading to catch up and finally did just now.  Great job, seemeatthebeach, thanks so much for bringing monkey love to Caylee's memorial site and posting the pics.

All the monkeys are so smart.... Didn't catch the radio show, but the details revealed sound possibly significant...

I was wondering if perhaps LP's Econ River fiasco on 11/14 may possibly have been some kind of diversion, along with the "meet and greet" of 11/15... Baez was busy 11/15, too, I believe he filed the Zenaida countersuit that day. 

D.Casey called J.Hoover on 11/14 and summoned him.  11/15 they met and went for the first of the two searches.  If LP's activities were designed to keep media/public attention diverted, it worked quite well, but who would he have been working for?

Poor Tim and God bless him.  The ugliness of the Anthony family was definitely a speed bump on his journey, but he will recover and continue his incredible work.

Discussion about the Anthonys is always so iffy.  There's always the possibility that some of their behavior is explained by coaching from LE or other experts, as someone pointed out.  But I still have my concerns about the Anthonys' behavior before July 15, regardless...

Glad the young neighbor's Dec. 11 interview video was found.  I remember it at the time, and it is good info.  Splitting hairs, but I think he is saying that the woods on his side of Suburban were knee-to-waist high in water until a couple of weeks before Dec. 11.  It is likely that the other side would be the same, though.  Good work, all, in finding and posting that video.

Tired and sick little monkey must say bye-bye to my monkey friends for now.  If I'm not here for the next couple of days, it's because I need to take care and recover and catch up on some things I've been neglecting.  But I'll more than likely be back soon enough.

Goodnight and God bless Caylee and all the monkeys who love her.  I consider Caylee an honorary little angel-monkey!
 

[islandmonkey]

  I AM so pizzed, just listened to Dana's show and what Tim and TES are going thru due to baby killing casey's search for Caylee........now he is so in the hole that he has had to turn down other families I wish I had extra cash so i could help out, but after Christmas, 6 birthdays in January I'm tapped out. I just pray that with tourist season headed our way soon, the postcards will help bring in extra cash for TES. I'm a praying monkey and I have faith that I will learn how to market them.

[Lovinlife]

I'm here FWIW Islandmonkey!  Took a nap this afternoon and now I can't sleep.  Was offline all weekend and worked hard to get caught up.  Not much new news I see?

Lovin

Hey, I left you a message in musings. 

Thanks Dottie,

It's a small world!
you can email me at: ((edit))
I would post in musings but getting tired! I was going to have Klaas email it to you but I see she's gone.  Hope to hear from you soon!

Lovin

[NO1ZMONKEY]

any monkeys AWAKE out there????

OF COURSE THIS YUNGIN MONKEY IS STILL ONLINE..CHECK WHAT I JUST FOUND!

Of course they should stop attacking this poor woman and her lawyer. This woman obviously had nothing to do with Caylee's murder. Casey somehow got her name from that apartment complex- which still boggles my mind, I am a property manager, my same company runs Sawgrass and I don't get how Casey Anthony got a hold of Zenaida's name since our files are not public and it would be difficult for someone such as Casey to walk up to our office and see anything with a tenant's name on it let alone a visitor. But I suppose that question may be answered at the trial.[/color]

[Fuzzball]

I agree with you too, JSM.     Am not sure yet what's going on with George, but IMO, he does *not* show the signs of a classic sociopath.  If anything, he does show the signs of a battered husband.  IMO.     

The thing with him tho, he changes so quickly from day to day, even hour to hour.  I think for the most part this indicates George taking his cue from Cindy, being at her every command.  I see George strongest in his own right when he is not with Cindy, as in the day he went before the grand jury.  I do believe we were seeing him that day stepping out on his own, doing what he felt to be the right thing.  Possibly scared to death to go back home and face the 'dragon' of the castle. 

Not sure why he stays with Cindy.  It's the kind of feeling I get when battered wives continue to stay with their abuser, hard to understand at times.  Yet easy to understand at times, considering that they likely are too beaten down to step out on their own, without intervention. 

I could have it all wrong about George, cuz there have been times I've wondered how much fury is behind the walls of silence and compliance he pulls up around him at times. 

Wycks, do you really think it's Cindy hitting George? Look at the facts. George is the one with the gambling addiction. Cindy is the one who stays with a man who emptied her bank account and dumped her!

George never looks bruised or awkward, but Cindy often does. In her interview it's like she can't sit comfortably, like it hurts her to sit.

Also, George constantly asks for, and gets, sympathy. George never looks at Cindy, never touches her. He's not watching her for cues. He's not walking on eggshells around her. He completely ignores her. An abused person doesn't do that.

George went and said what sounded like the truth, in his GJ interview. But it was all "poor George." Poor George smelled Caylee in the trunk, "please don't let this be my Caylee." But he didn't call the police. He says he told Cindy it was pizza. And he fabricated a car chase with Casey--"poor brave George, chasing the killer, trying to get to the truth." But the pings prove the chase never happened. Poor, poor George was afraid that if LE told Cindy what he'd said to them, "this will kill her," and the world imagines she yells at him or makes him sleep on the couch for "doing the right thing," but really poor George is using Cindy to get sympathy. There is never any indication that he cares how she feels, when you watch them in action.   

Poor George bought a gun--was he planning to use it on himself, or someone else? He cried in the car. But was it because of Caylee, or because he knows that something bad he did long ago may soon come to light? Poor George got T-shirts printed that he was rather proud of. He made billboards. AFTER he smelled that decomp.  And don't forget--it was HIS idea to make Caylee into the family business. Driving around with the billboards was going to be his new fulltime job. He said, "people will say look, that's the grandfather!"

He testified to the GJ, but he still continues to say he supports Casey, that he thinks she's innocent, etc....it's awfully convenient for George that he can just blame all of this on Cindy.

I look at the body language between them and I'm just amazed that people think George is "afraid" of Cindy. He barely knows she exists. He only talks about her when he's trying to get sympathy.

You make very good points here Fuzzball.  I believe George to show signs of being a 'battered husband', yes.  Not necessarily battered physically tho.  Emotional and verbal abuse tend to hit harder than physical abuse yet leaves no visible bruises.  A person can become beaten down with words faster than fists can fly.  Even if he has been physically attacked by Cindy or Casey, he is a former p.officer and knows the moves to protect himself. 

I DO believe there has been and continues to be violence in the Anthony home, yes.  With the limited knowledge that we have, this is what I suspect has gone on in that home: Cindy very likely demanding attention and control, verbally and emotionally abusive toward everyone.  George very likely cowering, backed into the corner then comes lashing out in a fury.   Casey very likely competing with Cindy for top position of control.  Violence very likely happening between Cindy and Casey, each taking turns at being victim and abuser.  George perhaps trying to protect whoever is the victim of the moment, even to the point of becoming the abuser and the abuser becoming the victim. 

So we agree that there's abuse and violence in the Anthony home. Typically women hit men to get them to engage. They throw objects at a man's retreating back as he leaves the room to make him turn around, or smack at him to get him to look at them or pay attention.  Men are rarely fatally injured by battering women. Men, on the other hand, hit women to get them to shut up. They punch a talking woman in the mouth, or fling her across the room or throw her from a moving car. A woman dies every 4 minutes at the hands of some bozo who claims he loves her.

As someone who's been the brunt of both emotional and physical abuse, I disagree that the emotional abuse is worse. It's not like someone breaks your nose without also verbally beating you up.

You and a few others are starting to paint this picture of George as a noble, beaten man, victimized by his wife and daughter, who tried to stand between his children and his abusive wife, at his own expense. A man who is totally controlled by his wife, yet somehow manages to rise above it and do the right thing. You're almost making a hero out of him, suggesting that if there's violence in the Anthony home he must be the one trying to stop it, never the source of it.

It's even been suggested that if George does hit Cindy, she deserves it because of her big mouth--that her verbal abuse justifies it. But we don't even know that she verbally abuses him. We've never seen her do it. We've never heard Lee or Casey or anyone else describe her doing it. We've seen her get pretty angry, and Lee described a pretty bad fight between Cindy and Casey. But remember, s**** rolls downhill. We've seen that George and Cindy are volatile people and so their fights might be pretty bad.

But George is not this stoic, noble man standing between his children and their abuser, taking the brunt of Cindy's abuse. He was getting ready to leave again when Caylee was killed. He had no intention of helping Cindy with this whole custody thing. He bailed on the family when Caylee was born, too--he left because he got a workmen's comp payment and only returned because the money ran out. Is that consistent with a victim of abuse? Cindy took him back, even though he gambled away her retirement money. Is that consistent with a batterer?

Cindy's brother describes her as the dumbest person in the world. Not the meanest, or most violent. He talks about how George swindles people and cons them and uses them, and how he beat up his own father. He describes Casey as taking part in an orgy. If Cindy ever hit or badmouthed George, I'm sure he'd have talked about that, too. Not only have we never seen Cindy be violent to George, we have never even heard her badmouth him or blame him for anything. George has sneakily worked it into all of his interviews that everything's Cindy's fault--he has to lie to protect her, LE shouldn't tell her what he's said because it'll kill her.  IMO, this is his way of throwing Cindy under the bus.

He "did the right thing," told the GJ about Casey. But he still kept the facade up on the street that he thought Caylee was alive. This wasn't about Cindy, this was about keeping the Caylee foundation money coming in.

IMO he's just using his family. All of them. And when they're not a source of narcissistic supply or money or anything he wants, he kicks them to the curb. Especially his son.

He bailed on the family when Caylee was born, and was once again negotiating divorce. Caylee's well-being wasn't his problem, apparently, until she got killed. The way Cindy lets Casey walk all over her suggests to me that she may think that's the only way to show love, and she does seem to have let George walk all over her through most of their marriage, too.

[islandmonkey]

I'm here FWIW Islandmonkey!  Took a nap this afternoon and now I can't sleep.  Was offline all weekend and worked hard to get caught up.  Not much new news I see?

Lovin

Hi Lovin~ it's good to see you, are you thawed out yet??

It is 3 deg right now but today it got up into the 20's.  I know it sounds funny but 20 felt really good!  Still no sunshine, that's what gets to me.  The gray skys for weeks on end...

It is supposed to warm up (yet not above freezing) this week and Thursday the sun is supposed to come out! 

  OUCH~sorry about that, I won't even tell you what temperature we were today. I am getting quite a few giggles from Dana and Tim regarding cowboy.......I do think he muddies the waters by tossing out speculation and random theories that the defense might try and use as "reasonable doubt". I think it's time for him to hang up the ten gallon hat and STFU, MOO

[Lovinlife]

Heading to bed too.  Thanks Desi, loved your post.  Islandmonkey, I missed the Dana interview w/Tim but did hear that he is financially tapped out.  With this economy legitimate non-profits are going to see some hard times ahead, I'm afraid.  I know I didn't attribute much/anything to discussion tonight but I'm looking forward to seeing you all real soon.

Thank you to all monkeys who lit a candle for Jaliek.  Usually when I go to light a candle there are none lit.  Today there were several, thank you so much. 

Peace & Love,
Lovin

[zoeandme]

Hi guys---whoever's still awake---doc dump coming any moment now according to cnn website!

[islandmonkey]

any monkeys AWAKE out there????

OF COURSE THIS YUNGIN MONKEY IS STILL ONLINE..CHECK WHAT I JUST FOUND!

Of course they should stop attacking this poor woman and her lawyer. This woman obviously had nothing to do with Caylee's murder. Casey somehow got her name from that apartment complex- which still boggles my mind, I am a property manager, my same company runs Sawgrass and I don't get how Casey Anthony got a hold of Zenaida's name since our files are not public and it would be difficult for someone such as Casey to walk up to our office and see anything with a tenant's name on it let alone a visitor. But I suppose that question may be answered at the trial.[/color]

Hi Yungin~I thought you might be awake, I tend to be a night time monkey myself, even though I have to get up at 5:30 M-F for work, SM is cutting into my sleepytime, but I can't stay off SM.

[Fuzzball]

I agree with you too, JSM.     Am not sure yet what's going on with George, but IMO, he does *not* show the signs of a classic sociopath.  If anything, he does show the signs of a battered husband.  IMO.     

The thing with him tho, he changes so quickly from day to day, even hour to hour.  I think for the most part this indicates George taking his cue from Cindy, being at her every command.  I see George strongest in his own right when he is not with Cindy, as in the day he went before the grand jury.  I do believe we were seeing him that day stepping out on his own, doing what he felt to be the right thing.  Possibly scared to death to go back home and face the 'dragon' of the castle. 

Not sure why he stays with Cindy.  It's the kind of feeling I get when battered wives continue to stay with their abuser, hard to understand at times.  Yet easy to understand at times, considering that they likely are too beaten down to step out on their own, without intervention. 

I could have it all wrong about George, cuz there have been times I've wondered how much fury is behind the walls of silence and compliance he pulls up around him at times. 

Well I said I was going to bed.

 Wyks I have totally been on the fence about George. First I thought he was covering for KC. That was before I became a monkey and the doc dumps came out. I then changed my mind about him. I'm sure George has fury in him, but he is a beaten down man IMO. By no means do I think he is a Saint. I think this is one crazy family that needs to get a grip on what their daughter did to their grandchild. I believe in my heart the only person in this family that has Caylee's interest at heart is George. Maybe I am a bad judge of character, but I don't see George being as much a manipulator as Cindy and KC. JMO JSM

JMO JSM

I don't think you are a bad judge of character JSM, am thinking you are spot on with George.  I don't see him being anywhere near as bad a manipulator as Cindy and Casey.  In fact, what manipulation George has done, I betcha has been at the direct command of Cindy.  Very likely the same with Lee.  I've thought from the start that if anyone was going to break with the truth first, it would be George.  And there's still time for that.  Am thinking what it boils down to is how much of a hold does Cindy have on him, and how much/little of his own sense of empowerment does he have left.  I think even I would think twice about crossing her if I had to live with her day after day. 

But Wycks, he only lives with Cindy again because he spent all of his workman's comp check. He lives off her, not with her. He successfully manipulated her into taking him back after he not only dumped her, but also spent her entire life savings. AND he got her to kick Lee out for him. If George were really this meek little henpecked mouse, I doubt he'd have been able to get Cindy to do that.

George is the one who manipulates successfully. He gets people on his side even when he doesn't make any sense. Casey used to be able to do that too.

If he were really taking his cues from Cindy, wouldn't he at least glance at her from time to time, to see her reaction? wouldn't he be watching her eyes to see if she's angry? He never does. I have never seen a man look more indifferent to a woman than George does. Even in the old pictures, he NEVER looks at Cindy.

More important, he never touches her. Never takes her hand, never touches her shoulder. Even now, when they're mourning their grandchild, he never comforts her. Ever. Am I the only person who finds that strange? He makes a show of telling LE how "it would kill her" to find out Caylee's dead, like he cares. But when you see him with Cindy, he's not protective of her at all. He's not even aware of her sitting there. 

They remind me of Sweeney Todd and Mrs. Lovett. He's saying "anything you say," but it's not because he's dominated by her or in fear of her. It's because he's got bigger things on his mind, and could not care less what she's prattling about.

I guess we see George's actions etc differently, Fuzzball, and that's ok.     I'm not saying my version is right and yours is wrong, I think we both have good observations and are coming at it from different angles, that's all.  What a dull place this earth would be if we all thought exactly alike, eh?   
 

I'm glad you feel that way, because I do, too. I wondered what you made of his indifference, but I guess you think it comes out of fear or depression?

To me it smacks of self-centeredness.  She's crying her eyes out during that visit and he doesn't even look at her. It's amazing. I've never seen anyone that indifferent who wasn't suffering from autism or something.

I value your opinion and want you to think I'm not a bad judge of character. I'm glad you think I have some good observations, too. I think it's very interesting that we two have such different angles on this.

[Lovinlife]

Hi guys---whoever's still awake---doc dump coming any moment now according to cnn website!

Anyone think tomorrow or NO bc of the Holiday?

[islandmonkey]

Hi guys---whoever's still awake---doc dump coming any moment now according to cnn website!

Anyone think tomorrow or NO bc of the Holiday?

[zoeandme]

Hi guys---whoever's still awake---doc dump coming any moment now according to cnn website!

Anyone think tomorrow or NO bc of the Holiday?

Good question---darn it!  I don't know, but hopefully tomorrow (well its already tomorrow---LOL).

[Lovinlife]

Hi guys---whoever's still awake---doc dump coming any moment now according to cnn website!

Anyone think tomorrow or NO bc of the Holiday?

Good question---darn it!  I don't know, but hopefully tomorrow (well its already tomorrow---LOL).

I don't think tomorrow.  I think most offices will be closed, I don't know do they come from the court or the OCSO?  I don't think the sherif's office would be closed but maybe the administrators don't work.  I'm babbling....niterz.

[Desdemona]

Hi guys---whoever's still awake---doc dump coming any moment now according to cnn website!

( Shhh!  Desi's not here, already gone to bed, don't you know...)

(So much for the plan of using the next few days to take care of pressing personal and domestic stuff that's been neglected.... docdump, oh yeah, bring it on...)
 

(Thanks for the warning, and now goodnight for real..) 

[Lovinlife]

See, now this is how I get into trouble...I say I'm going to bed and you guys get me all energized.  I've got one question and one statement (GAWD I sound like a NG caller  )
Has LE released the interview of the property manager from Sawgrass?
I hope we get Amy's statement

Lovin

[VinceVixen]

Does anyone know about a picture of Caylee with a bruise under her eye when she supposedly ran into a table at Troy's house according to Ricardo??????

Thnks

[Lovinlife]

Does anyone know about a picture of Caylee with a bruise under her eye when she supposedly ran into a table at Troy's house according to Ricardo??????

Thnks

Sorry VinceVixen I do not know, I'm sure that someone else 'round here does though.