Caylee Marie Anthony #93 1/16/09 - 1/19/09

[peanut]

To those of you who have had a suicide, I'm so sorry for you.

But...having experienced a borderline/psycho/sociopath, I would have to agree with Fuzzball. The hell that this person put those around her through was unbelievable. It got to the point where I would pray to God for her to die. Car accident, eating her gun, whatever. I rationalized it by telling God (yeah, right, like He needs to have things explained to Him!) that the world would be a much safer place without her in it. I'm the kind of person who puts "awful things that have happened to me" in a file in my mind. The drawer to that file is locked, and I'm always losing the keys, so I can't (won't) give you details, but suffice it to say that what we went through was awful, and has left scars that will never heal.

Thankfully, this person is out of our sphere now, I don't know if she's dead or alive, but I hope she's dead.

So, I said all this to maybe tone down what Fuzz said.

i could never wish anyone dead just because they put me thru the wringer. i can understand the frustration with dealing with someone with bpd, but i can honestly say that all ive wished for them is some peace and self acceptance.

You are a better person than I. (you may quote me on that). My psycho never had any remorse, guilt, or desire to change. She was truly a bad seed. (Honestly, if someone killed themselves because of the psycho's treatment of them, could you really be so forgiving? I'm thinking that even if Sister Marie Ethel knew of this person and her actions, even Sister couldn't have forgiven her and Sister could forgive A LOT!)

well i was talking about bpd. i have a hard time sometimes with terms like 'psycho' because i dont know if the person is actually talking about a true psychopath or is using the slang derivative.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Psychopath is the actual term to be used in this case. A psychopath who was so twisted and demented and manipulative, she was the direct cause of another's suicide. The suicide was depressed, and the psycho used that depression...

And this is such an unpleasant topic! I am truly sorry if I offended anyone, but I wanted you all to see all sides of the issue. I wanted you to know that psychopaths don't just kill with guns and drugs...they can use their illness to exacerbate other's illnesses...to a horrible end.

im so very sorry. you didnt offend me, i just get frustrated when borderline gets bandied about as if its interchangable with antisocial personality disorder. thats why i wanted clarification as to which you were referring to. i do agree psychopaths/sociopaths will use whatever means necessary to achieve their end goals.

I understand what Tevye is saying. I do not want to see anyone dead, but when dealing with a true severe BPD or Psychopath all you want is for it to end. I am at the point that I do not really care what happens to my Psycho one way or the other. I know that his death would cause pain but sometimes I believe that the pain would be less than dealing with this monster for the next 30 or more years. I know it sounds callus and unfeeling but unless you have been there it is hard to explain.

in terms of bpd, ive been there.

[joesamas mama]

I am so sorry for all the other monkey's losses, my heart and hugs go out to you {{{{{{:)}}}}

Sorry for the O/T~but I just had a prayer answered FINALLY

Bush Commutes Sentences Of Ex-Border Patrol AgentsOn his last full day in office, president responds to outcry and commutes sentences of two former Border Patrol agents imprisoned for shooting a Mexican drug runner in 2005

My prayer was answered too. I knew he would do it, I just didn't think he would wait until the last day. 

[Mtnmom]

Snipped:  from Fuzzball
"Mountainmom, I am deeply sorry for your loss. Really and truly. I don't know if any of your departed family and friends were borderlines, or how much contact you had with them before they passed.  I have talked to many people who were complete wrecks after someone close to them committed suicide, and my heart really does go out to them.

But I'm referring specifically to Borderlines. I don't think I've ever talked to anyone who was concerned about a suicidal friend, lover, sibling, etc...before the suicide. I'm not sure why it is, but most peoples' first response to a someone wanting to die, is to get mad at them, or ridicule them. People never say, "I worry that my friend might actually commit suicide." They say, " I have a friend who's always threatening suicide, she's such a drama queen." And they go on to describe how much this person's depression or craziness bothers them and and solicit support and sympathy for ending the friendship, which of course they get. 

I know a girl who cut her wrists when she was 14. her mother's response was to tell her to slash vertically, not horizontally, and not to do it in the house because she didn't want to have to clean up the mess. That was the entire extent of the family's concern in that case.  The father didn't even notice. They didn't seek therapy until 5 years later, when the younger sister attempted suicide with pills, necessitating a trip to the hospital.

I've heard a lot of people complain, especially siblings and lovers, about the suicidal behavior of borderlines, and it's always about how the borderline is guilt-tripping and manipulating them by swallowing pills or cutting, and a lot of complaints also focus on how the borderline person stopped doing it and cheered up fast later, so they must not really have felt that bad in the first place. 

Nobody actually says "hurry up and do it already." But when the anger and resentment mount higher each time the borderline recovers, that's what they read between the lines. It's natural to distance from them, so this dynamic between the borderline and "loved ones" is pretty universal."

Fuzzball In my case I was 14, my mom was going thru some terrible time. She been in out of mental facilities. To this day I dont know her diagnosis. She could be very mean, mostly verbal, then it advanced to physical. Then it turned to other maniacle rampages she would  go on. Eventually she would leave us for a periods of weeks. She was a single mom of 4 kids and we were burdens ,but instead of turning that against us she repeatedly used pills to try end her suffering of which I had to repeatedly intervene. Eventually she snapped out of it,but not without leaving us kids without a lot of baggage. 
I never once just wished she would end it.   But like I said Ive never walked in others shoes so each persons perspective is different in how they feel.
A few years ago our family lost a young good friend. He taped the exhaust into his car window. He was the best friend to 3 of my children. The pain it causes those left behind is staggering.

Ok Im done on this and really sad now.


Now today many years later she is fine

[no rose colored glasses]

I am so sorry for all the other monkey's losses, my heart and hugs go out to you {{{{{{:)}}}}

Sorry for the O/T~but I just had a prayer answered FINALLY

Bush Commutes Sentences Of Ex-Border Patrol AgentsOn his last full day in office, president responds to outcry and commutes sentences of two former Border Patrol agents imprisoned for shooting a Mexican drug runner in 2005

That's great news, thanks for sharing, I don't have the news on, I try to avoid that as much as possible.

[joesamas mama]

hello monkeys. I am sorry for everyone's pain and loss. I am so sick I can hardly hold my head up but the cage called to me for a quick fix. No doc. dump cause of the holiday huh. I hope it comes soon and I hope it has some really good stuff

I hope you're feeling better soon!   

Where's the pizza kitty avatar?

     I'm switching around.   How are you doing today?

I'm good, at work which isn't good.

[islandmonkey]

I am so sorry for all the other monkey's losses, my heart and hugs go out to you {{{{{{:)}}}}

Sorry for the O/T~but I just had a prayer answered FINALLY

Bush Commutes Sentences Of Ex-Border Patrol AgentsOn his last full day in office, president responds to outcry and commutes sentences of two former Border Patrol agents imprisoned for shooting a Mexican drug runner in 2005

That's great news, thanks for sharing, I don't have the news on, I try to avoid that as much as possible.

Me too~too much cr@p to hear every day, but this I have commutation is one thing that is long overdue in my opinion!!!

[Shy Monkey]

Speedy - Monkey hugs to you, too!   

Thank you so much.

[Garden Gnome]

Heartfelt sympathy, honest, to all who have been left suffering from the tragedy of suicide.

Maybe we can use this to apply to some understanding of the Anthony dynamics. I've just had a refresher with the "shrink" in the clinic, and was trying to gain a bit of understanding as it would apply to Casey.

Personality disorders are on a continuim. On one extreme end is total dependency, and on the other extreme end is sociopathy or anti social. Borderline personality is toward the sociopathy but is actually named because it borders "normal" range. There are varying degrees of borderline depending where someone falls on the continuim.

Borderline Personalities have a sense of the rules, but don't have the ability to apply them to self. They use triangulation, and manipulation to interact with others and don't have the ability to directly interact. You'll typically find passive aggresive behavior as well. Someone with Borderline Personality may steal from a friend, but will rationalize the friend owed it to them. Borderline personalities will drive those who are around them crazy......please forgive the slang, but they are very, very, difficult to live with.

Sociopaths have a sense of entitlement and no sense of the rules. They simply think that rules do not apply to them. A sociopath would steal and rather than thinking the friend owes them, simply feels entitled to take because they want. There is no need to rationalize why they stole, because they are entitled to whatever they want. A sociopath is much easier to live with UNLESS the sociopath is directed AT YOU. Often serial killers are viewed as perfectly normal by family and friends and neighbors because their sociopathy was not directed at them.

Does that make sense?? I'm going to ask for a proof read before I post this............

Thank you, CBB.  That is easier to understand.  I had heard before that there is varying degrees of BPD - am I reading that correctly?

I think KC leans toward sociopath, imho.

[peanut]

hello monkeys. I am sorry for everyone's pain and loss. I am so sick I can hardly hold my head up but the cage called to me for a quick fix. No doc. dump cause of the holiday huh. I hope it comes soon and I hope it has some really good stuff

I hope you're feeling better soon!   

Where's the pizza kitty avatar?

     I'm switching around.   How are you doing today?

I'm good, at work which isn't good.

for you jsm.....

[Sassycat]

hello monkeys. I am sorry for everyone's pain and loss. I am so sick I can hardly hold my head up but the cage called to me for a quick fix. No doc. dump cause of the holiday huh. I hope it comes soon and I hope it has some really good stuff

I hope you're feeling better soon!   

Where's the pizza kitty avatar?

     I'm switching around.   How are you doing today?

I'm good, at work which isn't good.

Its cool that you get to talk to us while you're at work though!!     

[Leroy]

Ok, back to Caylee and the crazy Anthony family.....

Did anyone save a list of the motions that Baez brought before the court on, let's see, a week ago Thursday?  If we had the list of motions, we could probably guess what will drop this week because didn't they get 15 days to "get her done"?

Okay, here is an article I found listing some of the motions (funnies one being the released jail tape):

WDBO Local News   

Anthony defense team files flurry of motionsBy Nikki Pierce @ January 7, 2009 6:15 PM Permalink | Comments (1) | TrackBacks (0)
Casey Anthony's attorney Jose Baez filed a flurry of motions late Wednesday afternoon. There are 16 in all, asking the prosecutors from the State Attorney's Office to hand over a wide array of evidence in the case against Casey.
Some of it Baez has asked for before and has not yet received from the state, like hair samples that were found inside mom Casey's car trunk last summer, and crime scene photos from where Caylee's remains were eventually discovered on December 11th.

He's also asking for items pertaining to the 5-month search for Caylee, such as records from law enforcement and Texas EquuSearch detailing the specific areas they searched. Also requested are unedited tapes of all 911 and Crimeline phone calls made by meter reader Roy Kronk, who reported suspicious items in a wooded area on Suburban Drive 3 times in August and once in December, when he discovered Caylee's body there.

Another motion makes a stunning accusation, alleging the possibility of police misconduct in this case, which may be captured on a tape of a video visitation made on August 14th, when George and Cindy Anthony visited Casey.

Baez wants the tape from the August 14th video visitation...the only one the defense claims the State Attorney's Office did not release to the public.

[joesamas mama]

hello monkeys. I am sorry for everyone's pain and loss. I am so sick I can hardly hold my head up but the cage called to me for a quick fix. No doc. dump cause of the holiday huh. I hope it comes soon and I hope it has some really good stuff

I hope you're feeling better soon!   

Where's the pizza kitty avatar?

     I'm switching around.   How are you doing today?

I'm good, at work which isn't good.

for you jsm.....

Thanks Peanut.  ::MonkeyDance::I was hoping to get a document dump, leave work early and wait on Josef's pizza

[joesamas mama]

hello monkeys. I am sorry for everyone's pain and loss. I am so sick I can hardly hold my head up but the cage called to me for a quick fix. No doc. dump cause of the holiday huh. I hope it comes soon and I hope it has some really good stuff

I hope you're feeling better soon!   

Where's the pizza kitty avatar?

     I'm switching around.   How are you doing today?

I'm good, at work which isn't good.

Its cool that you get to talk to us while you're at work though!!     

I'm at lunch right now. Sorta. 

[Sassycat]

Speedy - Monkey hugs to you, too!   

Thank you so much.

YVW.       

[peanut]

hello monkeys. I am sorry for everyone's pain and loss. I am so sick I can hardly hold my head up but the cage called to me for a quick fix. No doc. dump cause of the holiday huh. I hope it comes soon and I hope it has some really good stuff

I hope you're feeling better soon!   

Where's the pizza kitty avatar?

     I'm switching around.   How are you doing today?

I'm good, at work which isn't good.

for you jsm.....

Thanks Peanut.  ::MonkeyDance::I was hoping to get a document dump, leave work early and wait on Josef's pizza

i was hoping for one too. hopefully tomorrow!

[crazybabyborg]

Heartfelt sympathy, honest, to all who have been left suffering from the tragedy of suicide.

Maybe we can use this to apply to some understanding of the Anthony dynamics. I've just had a refresher with the "shrink" in the clinic, and was trying to gain a bit of understanding as it would apply to Casey.

Personality disorders are on a continuim. On one extreme end is total dependency, and on the other extreme end is sociopathy or anti social. Borderline personality is toward the sociopathy but is actually named because it borders "normal" range. There are varying degrees of borderline depending where someone falls on the continuim.

Borderline Personalities have a sense of the rules, but don't have the ability to apply them to self. They use triangulation, and manipulation to interact with others and don't have the ability to directly interact. You'll typically find passive aggresive behavior as well. Someone with Borderline Personality may steal from a friend, but will rationalize the friend owed it to them. Borderline personalities will drive those who are around them crazy......please forgive the slang, but they are very, very, difficult to live with.

Sociopaths have a sense of entitlement and no sense of the rules. They simply think that rules do not apply to them. A sociopath would steal and rather than thinking the friend owes them, simply feels entitled to take because they want. There is no need to rationalize why they stole, because they are entitled to whatever they want. A sociopath is much easier to live with UNLESS the sociopath is directed AT YOU. Often serial killers are viewed as perfectly normal by family and friends and neighbors because their sociopathy was not directed at them.

Does that make sense?? I'm going to ask for a proof read before I post this............

Thank you, CBB.  That is easier to understand.  I had heard before that there is varying degrees of BPD - am I reading that correctly?
I think KC leans toward sociopath, imho.

Yes, GG. You have it right.

[Leroy]

hello monkeys. I am sorry for everyone's pain and loss. I am so sick I can hardly hold my head up but the cage called to me for a quick fix. No doc. dump cause of the holiday huh. I hope it comes soon and I hope it has some really good stuff

I hope you're feeling better soon!   

Where's the pizza kitty avatar?

     I'm switching around.   How are you doing today?

I'm good, at work which isn't good.

for you jsm.....

Thanks Peanut.  ::MonkeyDance::I was hoping to get a document dump, leave work early and wait on Josef's pizza

i was hoping for one too. hopefully tomorrow!

With my luck it will be tomorrow since I have an appt. with a client in southern Ohio then when I finally get back home I have to take another client out to dinner.  So I am sure the doc dump will happen and I will have mucho catching up to do.  Peanut, your in charge of taking good cliff notes for me okay??...... 

[peanut]

hello monkeys. I am sorry for everyone's pain and loss. I am so sick I can hardly hold my head up but the cage called to me for a quick fix. No doc. dump cause of the holiday huh. I hope it comes soon and I hope it has some really good stuff

I hope you're feeling better soon!   

Where's the pizza kitty avatar?

     I'm switching around.   How are you doing today?

I'm good, at work which isn't good.

for you jsm.....

Thanks Peanut.  ::MonkeyDance::I was hoping to get a document dump, leave work early and wait on Josef's pizza

i was hoping for one too. hopefully tomorrow!

With my luck it will be tomorrow since I have an appt. with a client in southern Ohio then when I finally get back home I have to take another client out to dinner.  So I am sure the doc dump will happen and I will have mucho catching up to do.  Peanut, your in charge of taking good cliff notes for me okay??...... 

yes maam! this lousy typist is on the job just for you

[joesamas mama]

hello monkeys. I am sorry for everyone's pain and loss. I am so sick I can hardly hold my head up but the cage called to me for a quick fix. No doc. dump cause of the holiday huh. I hope it comes soon and I hope it has some really good stuff

I hope you're feeling better soon!   

Where's the pizza kitty avatar?

     I'm switching around.   How are you doing today?

I'm good, at work which isn't good.

for you jsm.....

Thanks Peanut.  ::MonkeyDance::I was hoping to get a document dump, leave work early and wait on Josef's pizza

i was hoping for one too. hopefully tomorrow!

Tomorrow I hope too

[klaasend]

IMO, bottom line is Casey Anthony is a slore who killed her baby.  I don't beleive she has any personality disorder that would get her off murder charges nor the death penalty.