Caylee Marie Anthony #94 1/19/09 - 1/21/09

[Mtnmom]

I was reading here this afternoon and I know that we all have had losses on our lives.
.
I think that is what draws us here. Some off the cuff posts did sound not quite right.
I have done so myself, forgetting about some of the tradgedies in my own family.
We had what I would call a suicide of a cousin. We all saw it coming. Or we saw something bad happening to her. There had been a series of losses for her beginning with her soon to be ex hubby going on a vacation with his soon to be new wife. A divorce and a new beginning. The new beginning turned sour when she over extended herself physically and money wise. She started to go downhill, sleeping alot, ignoring the business. Went on for a couple of years. Denied she was in trouble. Stated taking OTC to sleep, pain meds. She would rally for a while, then relapse. My Dad was getting her the meds. Going and picking them up. I saw the shopping list one day and told him he was just helping her avoid the problem. We all begged her to go somewhere and get help.
I rounded up a mental heath place that was going to make a house call, but she wouldn't answer the door. Everyone did everything they could think of. We did look into a committment order, but her mother didn't think it had gone that far.
One day, she just didn't wake up. She was taken to the hospital in a coma and my Dad made the decision to pull the plug after consulting everyone. By this time, her mum was a basket case and was just concerned about getting her next drink. The cause of death was listed as a toxic level of drugs, not a suicide, just a toxic level that had shut her kidneys down. She was a beautiful person, she was only 39.
We fought in our family and did the coulda woulda shoulda and the blame thing.
It left us all feeling like we failed her, yet we really did everything we could think of, each and almost every one of us. We were never the same afterwards. I could not speak to her mother for years. In fact, I did not speak to her and she passed with me still feeling that SHE could have done something. It still haunts me when someone's name is the same or when I hear family members struggling with the same types of issues in their family.
When I hear people say well, you should do this, or you should have done that, or making a diagnosis on line, well, it brings it all back. We did everything we could and there was no shortage of money, people or resources to help her, but she didn't want the meddling in her life and would not even discuss it.
We did fail, but we did everything we could think of, yet the feeling that we failed this wonderful person lingers. And why wouldn't she listen to us, we only wanted the best for her. 
Sometimes we can do nothing to help the people close to us, no matter how much we want to or love them.
I am sorry for being O/T.
But maybe George and Cindy were in the same place, between that rock and a hard place after Caylee was born and before it came to the awful end.     
 

Kat Gram that was an Awesome Post
But I think your giving the Ant's too much Credit - because I think they actually enjoyed living and leading the life that they created for each other. Jmo -
Still an Awesome Post

I wanted to add to all - that posted in the End of the Last Cage that I recognize that WE have all found " Family Here" at Scared Monkeys and ... We can fall off of Caylee and state things that are really important and needed to be said. Things of our Personal lives are emotionally triggered by this Case, by other Monkeys postings etc ...

I think though for Some Monkeys who cannot express their own personals so openly become painfully afflicted by reading others personal happenings .. Its not expected in the Caylee Cage ..

I feel that if a Monkey/Monkey's wants to Express such personal things that they should go off into another forum and have a group talk and embrace each other. Some people are not strong enough to face things that are of their past and or lives period, and it goes without saying that it can trigger huge emotions ..that otherwise would not have been ... if it were taken out of the room... I am just sharing my thoughts. My deepest respect for those who are willing to share ..but its unexpected to read such things..if your only here for Caylee.. 
I adore you all ... I just had to say my peace too ......... 

Deenie, I hate to say this but I totally disagree.

The reason these people were telling their stories about suicide had to do with a post made by Fuzzball. I don't know how to go to the other thread and bring it over here, but she basically said people that have family members with the BPD wish that said family member would commit suicide because the family was sick of dealing with the BPD sufferer.

The Monkeys that were offended were offended rightly so. Her post pissed me off and I have never been affected by suicide. I thought it was a cold post. She came back later after being called out on it and had an explanation.

I don't think anyone would have brought up their family history if Fuzzball hadn't opened old wounds up to begin with. No one ever tells Fuzzball to go to another forum to get her family's baggage off her chest.

JMO JSM

Peace Out

Thank you.  You are exactly right.  I never would have posted what I said just for the hell of it.  Sorry it upset some posters but I could not let those comments go by.

I was to upset by Fuzzballs post, but after I stepped backed and she told her story I realized she did believe what she posted by how she was made to feel in her particular situtation.
I hope everyones now feeling a bit better after the thread.

[joesamas mama]

I was reading here this afternoon and I know that we all have had losses on our lives.
.
I think that is what draws us here. Some off the cuff posts did sound not quite right.
I have done so myself, forgetting about some of the tradgedies in my own family.
We had what I would call a suicide of a cousin. We all saw it coming. Or we saw something bad happening to her. There had been a series of losses for her beginning with her soon to be ex hubby going on a vacation with his soon to be new wife. A divorce and a new beginning. The new beginning turned sour when she over extended herself physically and money wise. She started to go downhill, sleeping alot, ignoring the business. Went on for a couple of years. Denied she was in trouble. Stated taking OTC to sleep, pain meds. She would rally for a while, then relapse. My Dad was getting her the meds. Going and picking them up. I saw the shopping list one day and told him he was just helping her avoid the problem. We all begged her to go somewhere and get help.
I rounded up a mental heath place that was going to make a house call, but she wouldn't answer the door. Everyone did everything they could think of. We did look into a committment order, but her mother didn't think it had gone that far.
One day, she just didn't wake up. She was taken to the hospital in a coma and my Dad made the decision to pull the plug after consulting everyone. By this time, her mum was a basket case and was just concerned about getting her next drink. The cause of death was listed as a toxic level of drugs, not a suicide, just a toxic level that had shut her kidneys down. She was a beautiful person, she was only 39.
We fought in our family and did the coulda woulda shoulda and the blame thing.
It left us all feeling like we failed her, yet we really did everything we could think of, each and almost every one of us. We were never the same afterwards. I could not speak to her mother for years. In fact, I did not speak to her and she passed with me still feeling that SHE could have done something. It still haunts me when someone's name is the same or when I hear family members struggling with the same types of issues in their family.
When I hear people say well, you should do this, or you should have done that, or making a diagnosis on line, well, it brings it all back. We did everything we could and there was no shortage of money, people or resources to help her, but she didn't want the meddling in her life and would not even discuss it.
We did fail, but we did everything we could think of, yet the feeling that we failed this wonderful person lingers. And why wouldn't she listen to us, we only wanted the best for her. 
Sometimes we can do nothing to help the people close to us, no matter how much we want to or love them.
I am sorry for being O/T.
But maybe George and Cindy were in the same place, between that rock and a hard place after Caylee was born and before it came to the awful end.     
 

Kat Gram that was an Awesome Post
But I think your giving the Ant's too much Credit - because I think they actually enjoyed living and leading the life that they created for each other. Jmo -
Still an Awesome Post

I wanted to add to all - that posted in the End of the Last Cage that I recognize that WE have all found " Family Here" at Scared Monkeys and ... We can fall off of Caylee and state things that are really important and needed to be said. Things of our Personal lives are emotionally triggered by this Case, by other Monkeys postings etc ...

I think though for Some Monkeys who cannot express their own personals so openly become painfully afflicted by reading others personal happenings .. Its not expected in the Caylee Cage ..

I feel that if a Monkey/Monkey's wants to Express such personal things that they should go off into another forum and have a group talk and embrace each other. Some people are not strong enough to face things that are of their past and or lives period, and it goes without saying that it can trigger huge emotions ..that otherwise would not have been ... if it were taken out of the room... I am just sharing my thoughts. My deepest respect for those who are willing to share ..but its unexpected to read such things..if your only here for Caylee.. 
I adore you all ... I just had to say my peace too ......... 

Deenie, I hate to say this but I totally disagree.

The reason these people were telling their stories about suicide had to do with a post made by Fuzzball. I don't know how to go to the other thread and bring it over here, but she basically said people that have family members with the BPD wish that said family member would commit suicide because the family was sick of dealing with the BPD sufferer.

The Monkeys that were offended were offended rightly so. Her post pissed me off and I have never been affected by suicide. I thought it was a cold post. She came back later after being called out on it and had an explanation.

I don't think anyone would have brought up their family history if Fuzzball hadn't opened old wounds up to begin with. No one ever tells Fuzzball to go to another forum to get her family's baggage off her chest.

JMO JSM

Peace Out

Not Hurting My Feelings
Peace Out

  Thanks Deenie Didn't want you to take this post the wrong way.

[Deenie]

TV Guy

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/01/casey-anthony-1.html

It was an opening to the 6 p.m. news you wouldn't forget. The Casey Anthony case was the story Monday, and WFTV-Channel 9 anchor Bob Opsahl trumpeted the headline.

"Right now, you're the first to hear a stunning new development in the case against Casey," Opsahl said. "We uncovered bold new allegations that secret entertainment deals could be helping to pay for Casey's defense."

The big story: Could Casey's attorney Jose Baez be removed from the case because of a conflict of interest?

Reporter Mary Nguyen said Baez's spokesman, Todd Black, denied the allegations, yet added that Baez had brokered some deals on licensing fees.

The following came from WS, probably back in Oct.-Nov.  A VERY good sleuther posted this......

"Todd Black, in an early BB press release referenced a non-active/non-existant PR firm called AIM Productions in Nashville. Other employees/businesses at that same address show a Neal Pond, VP of Country Weekly Magaine, owned by American Media, Inc. a privately held company that owns The National Enquirer, Globe and Star magazines."

PERHAPS this is who the deal is with.

Guide you know what the Sickest of all ..Is
Is this - Ms Caylee now Found ( passed away) is going to be Worth More than anyone would pay out - If she was found Alive ...
Everyone who is a lech and a sleeze is going to try to profit off her death ..and its Insane .. It truly is insane.
All for the sanctity of media  .... makes me want to throw up

[joesamas mama]

Good night monkeys. If anyone read my post to Deenie, please don't be offended and please Deenie don't take what I said personally.

Peace out monkeys. JSM

Good Nite JSM - your intentions are good.  Dont ever forget that!

Thanks Leroy! It's all good, sometimes JSM has to rant.

Make sure you behave after I leave. You seem to stir up trouble once I am gone 

[guideposts]

Rereading statements and came across Jamie Relander's that may add to Blink's front page post:

JR: Which she uhm, not that you bring to my attention, she did call me and say she couldn't hang out. She was with another friend in downtown. She had just
gotten a speeding ticket and that she uhm, she said she was just going to stay in
Orlando if we wanted to drive out there. And...

YM: And the re...the reason she didn't hang out was because she had just gotten a  speeding ticket?

JR: Right. She was in Orlando. She had to run with a friend to Orlando.

YM: Uh-hum (affirmative)

Now, this could just be Casey using a ticket as an excuse because she found something better to do...but Jamie states Casey was with a friend and got a ticket.  Made me think of Blink's post.  When asked by Yuri what is the timeframe this happened, she can't be specific, but thinks its in June.

Hi Guideposts, That could be so incriminating for Casey, if the dates match.  "Very Interesting"

Yes, it would be one more piece of the puzzle. 

[Kat_Gram]

I think the courts were closed today because of MLK Day being a holiday.
I did see a bit of NG, nothing new, but in regards to the search warrants, it would show what they wanted and why and then there is the part where it says returns, what did they get from the house. That doesn't mean that what they got had evidence on it or was valuable, but it might give us some clues as to what the reasoning is. Another guest talking head said that Baez needs to see what the State's theory is as to what the cause of death was and further defense tests on the remains might have to be done to counter the State's claim. Looks like it is no time soon for a service as the State isn't going to tell them anyhting until pre trial discovery.
.....
Before, they did take some items of clothing from the house that belonged to Casey and they were looking for hairs as they had found a hair in the trunk with decompostion. They found nothing. 
...

[Leroy]

Good night monkeys. If anyone read my post to Deenie, please don't be offended and please Deenie don't take what I said personally.

Peace out monkeys. JSM

Good Nite JSM - your intentions are good.  Dont ever forget that!

Thanks Leroy! It's all good, sometimes JSM has to rant.

Make sure you behave after I leave. You seem to stir up trouble once I am gone 

Oh I know...my bad habit!  Nite and give Joe a hug for me! 

[no rose colored glasses]

There is a show on TV called "Intervention" which portrays Casey (the girl's name is even Casie)very closely. Her behaviors, her men, her drug use, etc.  I have always said she was using drugs and alcohol and as I watch this show, I am even more convinced.  

I totally agree with you, her first court appearance when she bounced in with that awful number shirt on, she looked higher than a kite to me.

[Deenie]

For All the Monkeys Tonite within this Discussion of Who and What and Feelings within the Caylee Cage- I have to Add this so its ..what it is Over and done with ..ending in good feelings. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBZVlPITTFY

And if this doesn't say it - I don't know what else Can express us More

My Extended Hugs to all in the Cage/members - even Lurkers ..

[joesamas mama]

ok, i will keep posting 'cause i feel soooo alone in here right now. (watching JVM too) does anyone else feel like, IF the A's would have come out in the beginnig & say, something like. we don't know what happened to our granddaughter, BUT "we will stand by our daughter" or something like that, we (the public) would have some sympanthy or more sympathy for the grandparent's i just think at least that way, at least they did something honest. sorry if this doesn't make sense, but do you know what i mean. i think, i would at least had a LITTLE respect for them. even though i think they should have done something a long time ago & KC may still be alive. i, & this is probably wrong, but i blame the grandparents just as much as KC!!!!!  jmo.

wendi

Wendi, I'm not watching that but yes, I truly believe if they had done something a long time ago, Caylee would be alive today. They knew KC lied about a babysitter, George even knew she had no job. IDK, I have been on the side of having a crazy brother/gf, thank God they have no children. But I will say one thing about them, they took care of their dog while they were living in their truck. He got fed before they would eat. Luckily they have both turned their crazy butts around and are productive citizens. I thank God every night for that!

JSM, I am really lost.  Lee and Mallory were living in their truck?  I read something earlier about George kicking Lee out when he moved back in?  Somemonkey HELP!!! 

Sorry Blurry. I should have said this better. MY brother and his gf were living in their truck with the dog. I was saying that I have been on the side of GA/CA that sometimes we are caught between a rock and a hard place. My brother's ordeal was what I was trying to say was my rock/hard place. Does that make sense. Sorry I am tired and confusing tonight!

[Sea Searcher]

Would someone  please tell us what's going on on NG? What about the search warrants? What were they looking for?

We will find out when the next doc dump comes this week. Body of the warrant will give reason/info to why or what they were looking for in the house to match items from the crime scene.

  WOW, that should paint a very interesting picture and hopefully answer a few questions monkeys need to know...I found that these doc/info/video dumps seem to happen on Thursdays..maybe I'm wrong but it always seems to be a busy day for news...

[crazybabyborg]

Rereading statements and came across Jamie Relander's that may add to Blink's front page post:

JR: Which she uhm, not that you bring to my attention, she did call me and say she couldn't hang out. She was with another friend in downtown. She had just
gotten a speeding ticket and that she uhm, she said she was just going to stay in
Orlando if we wanted to drive out there. And...

YM: And the re...the reason she didn't hang out was because she had just gotten a  speeding ticket?

JR: Right. She was in Orlando. She had to run with a friend to Orlando.

YM: Uh-hum (affirmative)

Now, this could just be Casey using a ticket as an excuse because she found something better to do...but Jamie states Casey was with a friend and got a ticket.  Made me think of Blink's post.  When asked by Yuri what is the timeframe this happened, she can't be specific, but thinks its in June.

Hi Guideposts, That could be so incriminating for Casey, if the dates match.  "Very Interesting"

Yes, it would be one more piece of the puzzle. 

Well, I'll give that a title:



Way to go, Guideposts! You and Blink are quite a team!!

[mytime]

I dislike the ANT family just as much as anyone here, but the time to get help for Casey would have been before she was 18, when they had some legal control. After that, they should have made a move ( lock her out, whatever )  to protect Caylee. 
I am sorry for the rant, been saving it up. I do feel like yelling at them still sometimes, but none of them are here any more. I just try to not be a know it all when it comes to what other ppl at my work / around here in real life or whatever should do in their own families. I just have to remember what we went through and what it did to us. 
Sometimes, there is no right thing that can be done.

My husband and I sought custody of his 2 children.  After a very long emotionally and financially drawn out battle, we finally prevailed!  Florida and in most states - want bio moms and children to remain united.  IMO, from our experience, the Anthony's had very little chance of getting custody.

I agree with you mytime...it takes an enormous amount of "provable" evidence of negelect and abuse, for the state to remove a child parental rights..especially a mother's..even then it's a long hard battle which has only a small chance of being won. Unfortunately, most of the child abuse that takes place is behind closed doors and when out in public, the mothers act completely different....the abuse is most often never seen until something catastrophic takes place.. I don't think G & C would have gotten custody based on what we've heard of KC's "public presentation" parenting skills..we've heard nothing but good things from KC's friends 

Even with enough provable evidence, it took us 2 years and over $200,000. Not to mention, the emotianal toll on the children!! 

If the Anthony's threw Casey out, Casey had every legal right to take Caylee!!  I am in no defending the Anthony's but I know in our case, it was sometimes easier to play the game! And I am not a game player!!

[Foggy Dew]

" from CBB"To your question, GG. I own a Rural Health Clinic that offers Medical Services primarily, but when I opened it, I brought the Psych Nurse Practitioner, and therapist with me that were on staff at the Community Mental Health Center where we all worked. The Psychiatrist came as well, but isn't here everyday. We happened to luck out today.

(BTW...... she's followed the case in the news, and has this big theory about why Casey killed Caylee. She would fit right in here and believes Casey should not ever be in society again, and that she'll actually do quite well in jail.)


Hi CBB, Can you share the Psychiatrist's theory with us?  Thank you.

You'd have to know her............she can really spin a yarn, but in a nutshell, she's summed Cindy up as passive agressive and Casey as historically borderline with recent movement into anti-social, and high level IQ. She said it's pretty common to see movement along the continuim after childbirth. Antisocial behavior has no real emotion (but can fake it very convincingly), and borderlines are all emotion, all the time. Anyway, she thinks Casey and Cindy were a toxic mix and can site a gazillion examples of how she figures Cindy pushed Casey's buttons, and vice versus. However, Cindy was in control because it was her house, her money, her food, and when Caylee came along, she claimed her too (according to Casey's perception, and my doc thinks Cindy probably pushed the buttons as well.) She thinks Casey had fantasized about killing Caylee for some time because Casey saw Caylee as making her life more miserable than ever and also saw her as an avenue that Cindy used to gain more control over her. Casey felt "entitled" to whatever she wanted (typical sociopath) and that heightened the conflict with anyone excercising control over her. Doc doesn't think Casey felt love for Caylee ever. She thinks that a prospect of a guy on the scene added to the fantasy of independence from Cindy and Caylee, and when that came along, she acted on her fantasy for purely selfish reasons and also to hit back at Cindy. The partying, etc. is just evidence that she had accomplished what she wanted. Oh, the doc can talk forever and include lots of details, but that's it in a nutshell.

She wants Casey to go to jail forever, and feels that Casey will adjust there and find other inmates to set up similar dynamics to what she had at home, and ultimately adjust far better than a lot of other inmates. Society does not need Casey Anthony in it!

CBB, re. Casey never feeling love for Caylee: something that's nagged at me is how long was it after Caylee's birth did she hold her.  I recall GA saying that CA held her first, but never heard anything more after that.

I don't "get" the deal of mothers who don't bond w/their offspring, but I can imagine that KC wasn't in tune w/the notion of having a child so the fact that she wasn't immediately placed in her mothers arms is a huge red flag re. what might have transpired in the delivery room (KC possibly rejecting her baby, thereby not bonding/CA holding the newborn) that culminated in a pattern of  neglect by a narcissistic mother and death of a 2 y/o toddler.

Some may think this is fanciful thinking, for normal mothers don't "get" not bonding w/their offspring.  But love is a wierd thing.  Why do we love some folks but not all?  Imho, its cause we lack a "bond".

I wonder if the poor little lamb wasn't doomed from the start.  So, so sad...

[Wyks]

Nite Monkeys.Sea it's good to see you here.Hope you feel better.


Sorry if any of my posts earlier today have offended anybody.
Later. 

Nite trimm, hope you sleep well!   

[guideposts]

Guidepost, monkeykisses to you

I thought about putting that in the piece, but at the time, I wanted to link it to what I thought was a text message out there referencing this as well, and well, I just forgot to go back to it.

I agree that it fits, and thank you for posting it. Awesome sleuthing Guideposts!  

Thank you.  Every clue helps! 

[Leroy]

CBB, re. Casey never feeling love for Caylee: something that's nagged at me is how long was it after Caylee's birth did she hold her.  I recall GA saying that CA held her first, but never heard anything more after that.

I don't "get" the deal of mothers who don't bond w/their offspring, but I can imagine that KC wasn't in tune w/the notion of having a child so the fact that she wasn't immediately placed in her mothers arms is a huge red flag re. what might have transpired in the delivery room (KC possibly rejecting her baby, thereby not bonding/CA holding the newborn) that culminated in a pattern of  neglect by a narcissistic mother and death of a 2 y/o toddler.

Some may think this is fanciful thinking, for normal mothers don't "get" not bonding w/their offspring.  But love is a wierd thing.  Why do we love some folks but not all?  Imho, its cause we lack a "bond".

I wonder if the poor little lamb wasn't doomed from the start.  So, so sad...

Foggy - ITA.  And you need to get dressed!!  lol

[higherhopes]

Good night monkeys. If anyone read my post to Deenie, please don't be offended and please Deenie don't take what I said personally.

Peace out monkeys. JSM

Good Nite JSM - your intentions are good.  Dont ever forget that!

Thanks Leroy! It's all good, sometimes JSM has to rant.

Make sure you behave after I leave. You seem to stir up trouble once I am gone 

Ill make Leroy behave JSM,   because you know I never mis-behave

[Mtnmom]

Does anyone feel the supposed miscarrage Casey had is gonna come into some sort play with the defense. Maybe a post-partum depression game plan?   

[Leroy]

Good night monkeys. If anyone read my post to Deenie, please don't be offended and please Deenie don't take what I said personally.

Peace out monkeys. JSM

Good Nite JSM - your intentions are good.  Dont ever forget that!

Thanks Leroy! It's all good, sometimes JSM has to rant.

Make sure you behave after I leave. You seem to stir up trouble once I am gone 

Ill make Leroy behave JSM,   because you know I never mis-behave