Caylee Marie Anthony #94 1/19/09 - 1/21/09

[no rose colored glasses]

You know, I feel compelled to say something. There's no way a mental defense is going to apply here in this case. No way, no how. It's interesting discusson, but Casey has exhibited all kinds of behavior to prove knowledge and understanding of a crime and she took measures to cover up her involvement. She's plenty sane for trial and conviction.

What do you think the defense will be? I'm not saying a mental defense is going to work, but I just have no idea what else they could use.

[guideposts]

Rereading statements and came across Jamie Relander's that may add to Blink's front page post:

JR: Which she uhm, not that you bring to my attention, she did call me and say she couldn't hang out. She was with another friend in downtown. She had just
gotten a speeding ticket and that she uhm, she said she was just going to stay in
Orlando if we wanted to drive out there. And...

YM: And the re...the reason she didn't hang out was because she had just gotten a  speeding ticket?

JR: Right. She was in Orlando. She had to run with a friend to Orlando.

YM: Uh-hum (affirmative)

Now, this could just be Casey using a ticket as an excuse because she found something better to do...but Jamie states Casey was with a friend and got a ticket.  Made me think of Blink's post.  When asked by Yuri what is the timeframe this happened, she can't be specific, but thinks its in June.

Well, I'll give that a title:



Way to go, Guideposts! You and Blink are quite a team!!

Blink is incredible at finding clues!  And thank you for the compliment, CBB.

PS....I know you make great avatars and want you to know I don't have one by choice.  I don't drink, I don't smoke, try very hard to keep my cursing to a minimum.  I'm running nekkid....it's my one vice.       

[TURBOTHINK]

I was reading here this afternoon and I know that we all have had losses on our lives.
.
I think that is what draws us here. Some off the cuff posts did sound not quite right.
I have done so myself, forgetting about some of the tradgedies in my own family.
We had what I would call a suicide of a cousin. We all saw it coming. Or we saw something bad happening to her. There had been a series of losses for her beginning with her soon to be ex hubby going on a vacation with his soon to be new wife. A divorce and a new beginning. The new beginning turned sour when she over extended herself physically and money wise. She started to go downhill, sleeping alot, ignoring the business. Went on for a couple of years. Denied she was in trouble. Stated taking OTC to sleep, pain meds. She would rally for a while, then relapse. My Dad was getting her the meds. Going and picking them up. I saw the shopping list one day and told him he was just helping her avoid the problem. We all begged her to go somewhere and get help.
I rounded up a mental heath place that was going to make a house call, but she wouldn't answer the door. Everyone did everything they could think of. We did look into a committment order, but her mother didn't think it had gone that far.
One day, she just didn't wake up. She was taken to the hospital in a coma and my Dad made the decision to pull the plug after consulting everyone. By this time, her mum was a basket case and was just concerned about getting her next drink. The cause of death was listed as a toxic level of drugs, not a suicide, just a toxic level that had shut her kidneys down. She was a beautiful person, she was only 39.
We fought in our family and did the coulda woulda shoulda and the blame thing.
It left us all feeling like we failed her, yet we really did everything we could think of, each and almost every one of us. We were never the same afterwards. I could not speak to her mother for years. In fact, I did not speak to her and she passed with me still feeling that SHE could have done something. It still haunts me when someone's name is the same or when I hear family members struggling with the same types of issues in their family.
When I hear people say well, you should do this, or you should have done that, or making a diagnosis on line, well, it brings it all back. We did everything we could and there was no shortage of money, people or resources to help her, but she didn't want the meddling in her life and would not even discuss it.
We did fail, but we did everything we could think of, yet the feeling that we failed this wonderful person lingers. And why wouldn't she listen to us, we only wanted the best for her. 
Sometimes we can do nothing to help the people close to us, no matter how much we want to or love them.
I am sorry for being O/T.
But maybe George and Cindy were in the same place, between that rock and a hard place after Caylee was born and before it came to the awful end.     
 

I am so sorry for your tragedy with your cousin, but with addiction there is nothing anyone can really do for them if they don't want to change themselves. It most likely was an accidental suicide on her part. Most addicts lose the ability to "get high" after a period of time of using and they will do more and more trying to "kick" it with alcohol and other drugs and sometimes, there is just a lethal combination with stops their heart.  They don't usually intend to do it, it just happens.

As long as an addict has an enabler who will provide then anything such as;  their money, drugs, place to live, etc. they don't stand much of a chance of stopping using their drug of choice. They use family members to get those things and manipulate them into believing they are helping when in reality the enabler is just helping the disease of addiction progress. Tough love is all that will work, and sometimes even that fails.

Unfortunately, many rely on mental help resources to get them help, and that usually just compounds the addiction. The addiction has to the the primary treatment and then address the mental health issues if there are any. Many times there are no underlying mental health issues once the use of the drugs and alcohol stop. In many people the bizarre behaviors, the stealing, the promiscuous sex, etc. end with time when the drug/alcohol use ends. Those are just the outward exhibition of the addiction.

Many times everyone can see it coming, but are helpless to change the outcome. Addiction counselors know hundreds of clients they wanted to recover, but were helpless when the real decision of the addict to use or not was presented.  

To believe anyone ise powerful enough or if they could say the right thing to the addict would  change another human being is to be in denial and put unnecessary stress on them and the family. The bottom line is NO ONE can get an addict clean, and alcoholic sober, or change another human being. As much as family members love them, they are totally helpless and need have no guilt when the addict dies.

There are ONLY three ways out of an addiction - Recovery (which they have to want with all their being) - Institutions (jails - mental hospitals) and death. There is NOTHING else and unfortunately there are NO OLD addicts. (without recovery)

I do work with the homeless, and many of them were sucessful members of society until the addiction took their lives. We think of homeless as street drunks, but I see many more ex-lawyers, ex-doctors, ex-nurses, etc. than I do people who choose to be there.

Please rethink that you could have done something to help her, because honestly, there is NOTHING you could have done differently in her case.  

((((hugs))))

(sorry for the O/T and the long post monkeys, but I heard do much pain in that post)

[crazybabyborg]

Rereading statements and came across Jamie Relander's that may add to Blink's front page post:

JR: Which she uhm, not that you bring to my attention, she did call me and say she couldn't hang out. She was with another friend in downtown. She had just
gotten a speeding ticket and that she uhm, she said she was just going to stay in
Orlando if we wanted to drive out there. And...

YM: And the re...the reason she didn't hang out was because she had just gotten a  speeding ticket?

JR: Right. She was in Orlando. She had to run with a friend to Orlando.

YM: Uh-hum (affirmative)

Now, this could just be Casey using a ticket as an excuse because she found something better to do...but Jamie states Casey was with a friend and got a ticket.  Made me think of Blink's post.  When asked by Yuri what is the timeframe this happened, she can't be specific, but thinks its in June.

Well, I'll give that a title:



Way to go, Guideposts! You and Blink are quite a team!!

Blink is incredible at finding clues!  And thank you for the compliment, CBB.

PS....I know you make great avatars and want you to know I don't have one by choice.  I don't drink, I don't smoke, try very hard to keep my cursing to a minimum.  I'm running nekkid....it's my one vice.       

 

You are a jewel, Guideposts, and you are certainly entitled to just one vice. I subscribe to you, BTW!   

[mytime]

I dislike the ANT family just as much as anyone here, but the time to get help for Casey would have been before she was 18, when they had some legal control. After that, they should have made a move ( lock her out, whatever )  to protect Caylee. 
I am sorry for the rant, been saving it up. I do feel like yelling at them still sometimes, but none of them are here any more. I just try to not be a know it all when it comes to what other ppl at my work / around here in real life or whatever should do in their own families. I just have to remember what we went through and what it did to us. 
Sometimes, there is no right thing that can be done.

My husband and I sought custody of his 2 children.  After a very long emotionally and financially drawn out battle, we finally prevailed!  Florida and in most states - want bio moms and children to remain united.  IMO, from our experience, the Anthony's had very little chance of getting custody.

I agree with you mytime...it takes an enormous amount of "provable" evidence of negelect and abuse, for the state to remove a child parental rights..especially a mother's..even then it's a long hard battle which has only a small chance of being won. Unfortunately, most of the child abuse that takes place is behind closed doors and when out in public, the mothers act completely different....the abuse is most often never seen until something catastrophic takes place.. I don't think G & C would have gotten custody based on what we've heard of KC's "public presentation" parenting skills..we've heard nothing but good things from KC's friends 

Even with enough provable evidence, it took us 2 years and over $200,000. Not to mention, the emotianal toll on the children!! 

If the Anthony's threw Casey out, Casey had every legal right to take Caylee!!  I am in no defending the Anthony's but I know in our case, it was sometimes easier to play the game! And I am not a game player!!

I admire your persistence mytime..most would give up when dealing with those kind of financial amounts..in a battle that is guarantied to be all uphill. It's the children who always suffer most during these situations and so sad to see the toll that it takes on them. So often children become pawns in a very nasty game..it was so good that your husband had you with him, otherwise all the money in the world probably wouldn't have helped him..I hope his/your two children are doing well... If only Casey would have given up Caylee for adoption or relinquished the responsibility of custody, which she obviously didn't want..Caylee would be with us today

Thank you SS for your kind words. 

Casey is like my children's bio mother and they only care about themselves!! I think one of the reasons I was so drawn to this case was the simalarities between Casey and her.  Even her own mother acknowledges it.  Unfortunatley, she does not see her own likeness to Cindy!! LOL  I get along with her for the sake of the kids but 

[Sea Searcher]

Sea Searcher and Mytime, both MIA and appearing at the same time???

Something seems awfully fishy here???

 

    We Bostanians have to stick together.  BTW SS, hope it warmed up some up there.  I swear you Northeners always bring the cold weather down here!  So I kicked them all out and sent them back up there!! 

  not a chance..we're in the below 0 phase of winter.. and hey, you guys blew all that hot air up here in december and almost ruined my Christmas.. 

I forgot to say Hi to all my monkey friends when I came in...sorry, I'm still not really up to posting but I had to pop in when I saw Bearly's post.. 

Hi HH...didn't want you to have to start the hip swinging again.. 
and I'm glad so many like the "E" thread 

There..that's all my O/T in one post 

[higherhopes]

Sea Searcher and Mytime, both MIA and appearing at the same time???

Something seems awfully fishy here???

 

    We Bostanians have to stick together.  BTW SS, hope it warmed up some up there.  I swear you Northeners always bring the cold weather down here!  So I kicked them all out and sent them back up there!! 

  not a chance..we're in the below 0 phase of winter.. and hey, you guys blew all that hot air up here in december and almost ruined my Christmas.. 

I forgot to say Hi to all my monkey friends when I came in...sorry, I'm still not really up to posting but I had to pop in when I saw Bearly's post.. 

Hi HH...didn't want you to have to start the hip swinging again.. 
and I'm glad so many like the "E" thread 

There..that's all my O/T in one post 

You better be glad you remembered, I was just getting up out of my chair and getting ready to ROCK OUT!

[always 1]

I wannna give a Monkey hug to everyone

I need more hugs than most people - may I have all the leftovers???

[Mtnmom]

Okie Dokie Im off to the Monkey Bunky.

HAGN all.

[mytime]

Rereading statements and came across Jamie Relander's that may add to Blink's front page post:

JR: Which she uhm, not that you bring to my attention, she did call me and say she couldn't hang out. She was with another friend in downtown. She had just
gotten a speeding ticket and that she uhm, she said she was just going to stay in
Orlando if we wanted to drive out there. And...

YM: And the re...the reason she didn't hang out was because she had just gotten a  speeding ticket?

JR: Right. She was in Orlando. She had to run with a friend to Orlando.

YM: Uh-hum (affirmative)

Now, this could just be Casey using a ticket as an excuse because she found something better to do...but Jamie states Casey was with a friend and got a ticket.  Made me think of Blink's post.  When asked by Yuri what is the timeframe this happened, she can't be specific, but thinks its in June.

Well, I'll give that a title:



Way to go, Guideposts! You and Blink are quite a team!!

Blink is incredible at finding clues!  And thank you for the compliment, CBB.

PS....I know you make great avatars and want you to know I don't have one by choice.  I don't drink, I don't smoke, try very hard to keep my cursing to a minimum.  I'm running nekkid....it's my one vice.       

   We may need a nudist cage soon!!   

[TURBOTHINK]

TV Guy

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/01/casey-anthony-1.html

It was an opening to the 6 p.m. news you wouldn't forget. The Casey Anthony case was the story Monday, and WFTV-Channel 9 anchor Bob Opsahl trumpeted the headline.

"Right now, you're the first to hear a stunning new development in the case against Casey," Opsahl said. "We uncovered bold new allegations that secret entertainment deals could be helping to pay for Casey's defense."

The big story: Could Casey's attorney Jose Baez be removed from the case because of a conflict of interest?

Reporter Mary Nguyen said Baez's spokesman, Todd Black, denied the allegations, yet added that Baez had brokered some deals on licensing fees.

The following came from WS, probably back in Oct.-Nov.  A VERY good sleuther posted this......

"Todd Black, in an early BB press release referenced a non-active/non-existant PR firm called AIM Productions in Nashville. Other employees/businesses at that same address show a Neal Pond, VP of Country Weekly Magaine, owned by American Media, Inc. a privately held company that owns The National Enquirer, Globe and Star magazines."

PERHAPS this is who the deal is with.

Guide you know what the Sickest of all ..Is
Is this - Ms Caylee now Found ( passed away) is going to be Worth More than anyone would pay out - If she was found Alive ...
Everyone who is a lech and a sleeze is going to try to profit off her death ..and its Insane .. It truly is insane.
All for the sanctity of media  .... makes me want to throw up

Deenie, you are correct.  Caylee has become a commodity.  Her life story and the continued cyclone activity surrounding her death are being sold like stocks & bond on Wall Street.  "Sleeze" is a gentle term to use for these people.

Forgive me if I am jumping the gun on this, but that information was posted in an initial investigation done by me and colleagues at WS..  We never posted that information publicly because it was preliminary.. WE have since published a comprehensive article on Todd Black, Red and I are working on it as we speak and will publish it here soon. I mention this because there is variances in the information that came to light as the investigation progressed and I dont want to see any "mis-info" out there.

Lastly, TB is not a nice guy, meaning if you polled the media in Orlando as to what they think of him, it would shock you. They knew the weight of his involvement and what it might mean, and people were pretty much told to back off, until now...

And I can't wait !!!!

[mytime]

I wannna give a Monkey hug to everyone

I need more hugs than most people - may I have all the leftovers???

aaawwwwwww poor A1 - out little needy kitty!!   

HI Always 1 - so glad to see you again!! 

[guideposts]

Hi Guideposts, Nice seeing you again.  I wish you would post more!  Would love to pick your brain!!  LOL

It's pretty small....so won't take long 

As always, good to see you, Mytime.  Dazzled up for Valentine Day, or are you entering a pageant? 

   Yes I am!! 

And why are you still nekkid?    

It's my only vice....and I'm too lazy to set up a photobucket account! 

[mytime]

Hi Guideposts, Nice seeing you again.  I wish you would post more!  Would love to pick your brain!!  LOL

It's pretty small....so won't take long 

As always, good to see you, Mytime.  Dazzled up for Valentine Day, or are you entering a pageant? 

   Yes I am!! 

And why are you still nekkid?    

It's my only vice....and I'm too lazy to set up a photobucket account! 

LOL - you don't need one silly super sluether monkey!!

[Bearlyhere]

Bearly - your mom is in my prayers!   I'll pray for the doctors that are helping her, too.     

Thank you!

[guideposts]

TV Guy

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/01/casey-anthony-1.html

It was an opening to the 6 p.m. news you wouldn't forget. The Casey Anthony case was the story Monday, and WFTV-Channel 9 anchor Bob Opsahl trumpeted the headline.

"Right now, you're the first to hear a stunning new development in the case against Casey," Opsahl said. "We uncovered bold new allegations that secret entertainment deals could be helping to pay for Casey's defense."

The big story: Could Casey's attorney Jose Baez be removed from the case because of a conflict of interest?

Reporter Mary Nguyen said Baez's spokesman, Todd Black, denied the allegations, yet added that Baez had brokered some deals on licensing fees.

Guide you know what the Sickest of all ..Is
Is this - Ms Caylee now Found ( passed away) is going to be Worth More than anyone would pay out - If she was found Alive ...
Everyone who is a lech and a sleeze is going to try to profit off her death ..and its Insane .. It truly is insane.
All for the sanctity of media  .... makes me want to throw up

Deenie, you are correct.  Caylee has become a commodity.  Her life story and the continued cyclone activity surrounding her death are being sold like stocks & bond on Wall Street.  "Sleeze" is a gentle term to use for these people.

Forgive me if I am jumping the gun on this, but that information was posted in an initial investigation done by me and colleagues at WS..  We never posted that information publicly because it was preliminary.. WE have since published a comprehensive article on Todd Black, Red and I are working on it as we speak and will publish it here soon. I mention this because there is variances in the information that came to light as the investigation progressed and I dont want to see any "mis-info" out there.

Lastly, TB is not a nice guy, meaning if you polled the media in Orlando as to what they think of him, it would shock you. They knew the weight of his involvement and what it might mean, and people were pretty much told to back off, until now...

Blink, I'll send Klass my notes, and she can send them on to you.   I know this came from WS.  I do not want to screw up any work you are doing.

[NO1ZMONKEY]

I wannna give a Monkey hug to everyone

I need more hugs than most people - may I have all the leftovers???

  Hey Ms. Saucy. haha. Monkey hug to you, straight outta its freshness pack, no leftovers! So what clothes do you think was found in the bag?i think us monkeys should make a wager..of nanners. Or better yet, who ever guesses closest will be my new avatar for as long as i like!! hehe. I think is KCsluts clothes. The other day i was throwing out old stew*gross* and i poured it into a trash bag, and had to place it on the floor for a second, so it lost its shape and slumped to the ground and got all over my clean floor, and instead of being mad i was like BINGO, thats why there was tape wrapped at the entrance of the bag, she was tired of getting stuff everywhere. *sorry* I think at one point she got some on her, thats why she is so disgusted with Caylee. seriously. JMHO

[Bearlyhere]

I was reading here this afternoon and I know that we all have had losses on our lives.
.
I think that is what draws us here. Some off the cuff posts did sound not quite right.
I have done so myself, forgetting about some of the tradgedies in my own family.
We had what I would call a suicide of a cousin. We all saw it coming. Or we saw something bad happening to her. There had been a series of losses for her beginning with her soon to be ex hubby going on a vacation with his soon to be new wife. A divorce and a new beginning. The new beginning turned sour when she over extended herself physically and money wise. She started to go downhill, sleeping alot, ignoring the business. Went on for a couple of years. Denied she was in trouble. Stated taking OTC to sleep, pain meds. She would rally for a while, then relapse. My Dad was getting her the meds. Going and picking them up. I saw the shopping list one day and told him he was just helping her avoid the problem. We all begged her to go somewhere and get help.
I rounded up a mental heath place that was going to make a house call, but she wouldn't answer the door. Everyone did everything they could think of. We did look into a committment order, but her mother didn't think it had gone that far.
One day, she just didn't wake up. She was taken to the hospital in a coma and my Dad made the decision to pull the plug after consulting everyone. By this time, her mum was a basket case and was just concerned about getting her next drink. The cause of death was listed as a toxic level of drugs, not a suicide, just a toxic level that had shut her kidneys down. She was a beautiful person, she was only 39.
We fought in our family and did the coulda woulda shoulda and the blame thing.
It left us all feeling like we failed her, yet we really did everything we could think of, each and almost every one of us. We were never the same afterwards. I could not speak to her mother for years. In fact, I did not speak to her and she passed with me still feeling that SHE could have done something. It still haunts me when someone's name is the same or when I hear family members struggling with the same types of issues in their family.
When I hear people say well, you should do this, or you should have done that, or making a diagnosis on line, well, it brings it all back. We did everything we could and there was no shortage of money, people or resources to help her, but she didn't want the meddling in her life and would not even discuss it.
We did fail, but we did everything we could think of, yet the feeling that we failed this wonderful person lingers. And why wouldn't she listen to us, we only wanted the best for her. 
Sometimes we can do nothing to help the people close to us, no matter how much we want to or love them.
I am sorry for being O/T.
But maybe George and Cindy were in the same place, between that rock and a hard place after Caylee was born and before it came to the awful end.     
 

I am so sorry for your tragedy with your cousin, but with addiction there is nothing anyone can really do for them if they don't want to change themselves. It most likely was an accidental suicide on her part. Most addicts lose the ability to "get high" after a period of time of using and they will do more and more trying to "kick" it with alcohol and other drugs and sometimes, there is just a lethal combination with stops their heart.  They don't usually intend to do it, it just happens.

As long as an addict has an enabler who will provide then anything such as;  their money, drugs, place to live, etc. they don't stand much of a chance of stopping using their drug of choice. They use family members to get those things and manipulate them into believing they are helping when in reality the enabler is just helping the disease of addiction progress. Tough love is all that will work, and sometimes even that fails.

Unfortunately, many rely on mental help resources to get them help, and that usually just compounds the addiction. The addiction has to the the primary treatment and then address the mental health issues if there are any. Many times there are no underlying mental health issues once the use of the drugs and alcohol stop. In many people the bizarre behaviors, the stealing, the promiscuous sex, etc. end with time when the drug/alcohol use ends. Those are just the outward exhibition of the addiction.

Many times everyone can see it coming, but are helpless to change the outcome. Addiction counselors know hundreds of clients they wanted to recover, but were helpless when the real decision of the addict to use or not was presented.  

To believe anyone ise powerful enough or if they could say the right thing to the addict would  change another human being is to be in denial and put unnecessary stress on them and the family. The bottom line is NO ONE can get an addict clean, and alcoholic sober, or change another human being. As much as family members love them, they are totally helpless and need have no guilt when the addict dies.

There are ONLY three ways out of an addiction - Recovery (which they have to want with all their being) - Institutions (jails - mental hospitals) and death. There is NOTHING else and unfortunately there are NO OLD addicts. (without recovery)

I do work with the homeless, and many of them were sucessful members of society until the addiction took their lives. We think of homeless as street drunks, but I see many more ex-lawyers, ex-doctors, ex-nurses, etc. than I do people who choose to be there.

Please rethink that you could have done something to help her, because honestly, there is NOTHING you could have done differently in her case.  

((((hugs))))

(sorry for the O/T and the long post monkeys, but I heard do much pain in that post)

 

[da sparkenator]

Klaas

Howdy!!!  I have a technical question (sort of).  If I change my user name, will my posts go to "0" again?

Thank you!

Karen

[da sparkenator]

Bearly - your mom is in my prayers!   I'll pray for the doctors that are helping her, too.     

Thank you!

Count me in for praying for your mom as well!

Karen