Caylee Marie Anthony #94 1/19/09 - 1/21/09

[blurrymonkey]

Hey everyone, am moving this week into my own apt, and was packing all afternoon.  And WOW!!  Just staggering in from catching up on the last thread.. 

Monken, Perri, and NoRose CG, I read what you wrote to me, thank you so much. 

My heart goes out to all our monkey family who have lost loved ones thru any means, and to those struggling in life.  Janetruth, if you are reading here, am hoping you come back in and post.  And to those who have perhaps pulled back from posting, please come back too, we need you in here as well.     

I think we could all use a big group monkey hug:

OMG, the little monkey peeking out!

Monkey hugs back and all around the cage. 

The feeling I get in this forum is that lil monkey peeking out represents all our more fragile monkeys.  We care about and protect each other in here.   

ITA.  And I think who the more fragile monkeys are can depend on the days and the circumstances.  Sometimes the seemingly stronger ones need to be the little protected one for a bit. 

Blurry is 

Thanks, Deenie.  Back atcha!

[nomorenekkiddogs]

I was reading here this afternoon and I know that we all have had losses on our lives.
.
I think that is what draws us here. Some off the cuff posts did sound not quite right.
I have done so myself, forgetting about some of the tradgedies in my own family.
We had what I would call a suicide of a cousin. We all saw it coming. Or we saw something bad happening to her. There had been a series of losses for her beginning with her soon to be ex hubby going on a vacation with his soon to be new wife. A divorce and a new beginning. The new beginning turned sour when she over extended herself physically and money wise. She started to go downhill, sleeping alot, ignoring the business. Went on for a couple of years. Denied she was in trouble. Stated taking OTC to sleep, pain meds. She would rally for a while, then relapse. My Dad was getting her the meds. Going and picking them up. I saw the shopping list one day and told him he was just helping her avoid the problem. We all begged her to go somewhere and get help.
I rounded up a mental heath place that was going to make a house call, but she wouldn't answer the door. Everyone did everything they could think of. We did look into a committment order, but her mother didn't think it had gone that far.
One day, she just didn't wake up. She was taken to the hospital in a coma and my Dad made the decision to pull the plug after consulting everyone. By this time, her mum was a basket case and was just concerned about getting her next drink. The cause of death was listed as a toxic level of drugs, not a suicide, just a toxic level that had shut her kidneys down. She was a beautiful person, she was only 39.
We fought in our family and did the coulda woulda shoulda and the blame thing.
It left us all feeling like we failed her, yet we really did everything we could think of, each and almost every one of us. We were never the same afterwards. I could not speak to her mother for years. In fact, I did not speak to her and she passed with me still feeling that SHE could have done something. It still haunts me when someone's name is the same or when I hear family members struggling with the same types of issues in their family.
When I hear people say well, you should do this, or you should have done that, or making a diagnosis on line, well, it brings it all back. We did everything we could and there was no shortage of money, people or resources to help her, but she didn't want the meddling in her life and would not even discuss it.
We did fail, but we did everything we could think of, yet the feeling that we failed this wonderful person lingers. And why wouldn't she listen to us, we only wanted the best for her. 
Sometimes we can do nothing to help the people close to us, no matter how much we want to or love them.
I am sorry for being O/T.
But maybe George and Cindy were in the same place, between that rock and a hard place after Caylee was born and before it came to the awful end.     
 

I am so sorry for your tragedy with your cousin, but with addiction there is nothing anyone can really do for them if they don't want to change themselves. It most likely was an accidental suicide on her part. Most addicts lose the ability to "get high" after a period of time of using and they will do more and more trying to "kick" it with alcohol and other drugs and sometimes, there is just a lethal combination with stops their heart.  They don't usually intend to do it, it just happens.

As long as an addict has an enabler who will provide then anything such as;  their money, drugs, place to live, etc. they don't stand much of a chance of stopping using their drug of choice. They use family members to get those things and manipulate them into believing they are helping when in reality the enabler is just helping the disease of addiction progress. Tough love is all that will work, and sometimes even that fails.

Unfortunately, many rely on mental help resources to get them help, and that usually just compounds the addiction. The addiction has to the the primary treatment and then address the mental health issues if there are any. Many times there are no underlying mental health issues once the use of the drugs and alcohol stop. In many people the bizarre behaviors, the stealing, the promiscuous sex, etc. end with time when the drug/alcohol use ends. Those are just the outward exhibition of the addiction.

Many times everyone can see it coming, but are helpless to change the outcome. Addiction counselors know hundreds of clients they wanted to recover, but were helpless when the real decision of the addict to use or not was presented.  

To believe anyone ise powerful enough or if they could say the right thing to the addict would  change another human being is to be in denial and put unnecessary stress on them and the family. The bottom line is NO ONE can get an addict clean, and alcoholic sober, or change another human being. As much as family members love them, they are totally helpless and need have no guilt when the addict dies.

There are ONLY three ways out of an addiction - Recovery (which they have to want with all their being) - Institutions (jails - mental hospitals) and death. There is NOTHING else and unfortunately there are NO OLD addicts. (without recovery)

I do work with the homeless, and many of them were sucessful members of society until the addiction took their lives. We think of homeless as street drunks, but I see many more ex-lawyers, ex-doctors, ex-nurses, etc. than I do people who choose to be there.

Please rethink that you could have done something to help her, because honestly, there is NOTHING you could have done differently in her case.  

((((hugs))))

(sorry for the O/T and the long post monkeys, but I heard do much pain in that post)

     SOOOOOO very true.  I grew up living with an alcoholic and then married one.   I was married for 10 years to him, he was the love of my life, and believe me I really tried to "save" him.  But no one, no one, can make them stop, not even with all the love in the world, can make them stop if they don't want to.  I finally left, and after several years of downturn and several stints in jail, he finally wised up and quit.  I am so glad he is still alive, and so are his kids.

[wendiw8780]

I met a woman today while I was out shopping and we got into a conversation about the Anthony case. Well I gave her the website info for the forum and also told her to read some of the interviews and documents to be informed fully. Well she made a comment to me that just has been bugging me. She only seemed to have general knowledge of the case but she mentioned that the mother had started a company called Identa or something like that and it was totally paying the defense fund. I just glided over it and later regretted not questioning where the info came from.
I come home and see the news article about Baez and money paying him coming into question and just thought that was weird.
I have looked in FL corp website but nothing else on there. Just thought I would mention it. Just probably a rumor or something.

Maybe something like>>
Ident-A-Kid
Ident-A-Kid Services of America
 - children's identification products & services
2810 Scherer Drive
Suite 100
St. Petersburg
Florida 33716

Telephone: +1 (727) 577-4646
Websites > Business > Franchises
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/websites/business/franchise/ident-a-kid/

Hmmm.  Interesting.  One question?  How would a indent-a-kid have helped the Anthony's find Caylee when she actually was never "missing".  She just was killed by her mom.  Hmmmm.  I have to think about this one.

sorry if this has been brought up. could the A's been buying a franchise. just wondering.

wendi

[guideposts]

Klaas - you have mail.  Please pass it on to Blink.  Thank you!

[klaasend]

Klaas

Howdy!!!  I have a technical question (sort of).  If I change my user name, will my posts go to "0" again?

Thank you!

Karen

No.  You mean change the name people see in the forum?  No, your posts will stay the same.  It does get confusing for others sometimes though. 

[Bearlyhere]

Rereading statements and came across Jamie Relander's that may add to Blink's front page post:

JR: Which she uhm, not that you bring to my attention, she did call me and say she couldn't hang out. She was with another friend in downtown. She had just
gotten a speeding ticket and that she uhm, she said she was just going to stay in
Orlando if we wanted to drive out there. And...

YM: And the re...the reason she didn't hang out was because she had just gotten a  speeding ticket?

JR: Right. She was in Orlando. She had to run with a friend to Orlando.

YM: Uh-hum (affirmative)

Now, this could just be Casey using a ticket as an excuse because she found something better to do...but Jamie states Casey was with a friend and got a ticket.  Made me think of Blink's post.  When asked by Yuri what is the timeframe this happened, she can't be specific, but thinks its in June.

Well, I'll give that a title:



Way to go, Guideposts! You and Blink are quite a team!!

Blink is incredible at finding clues!  And thank you for the compliment, CBB.

PS....I know you make great avatars and want you to know I don't have one by choice.  I don't drink, I don't smoke, try very hard to keep my cursing to a minimum.  I'm running nekkid....it's my one vice.       

   We may need a nudist cage soon!!   

                 

[blurrymonkey]

ok, i will keep posting 'cause i feel soooo alone in here right now. (watching JVM too) does anyone else feel like, IF the A's would have come out in the beginnig & say, something like. we don't know what happened to our granddaughter, BUT "we will stand by our daughter" or something like that, we (the public) would have some sympanthy or more sympathy for the grandparent's i just think at least that way, at least they did something honest. sorry if this doesn't make sense, but do you know what i mean. i think, i would at least had a LITTLE respect for them. even though i think they should have done something a long time ago & KC may still be alive. i, & this is probably wrong, but i blame the grandparents just as much as KC!!!!!  jmo.

wendi

Wendi, I'm not watching that but yes, I truly believe if they had done something a long time ago, Caylee would be alive today. They knew KC lied about a babysitter, George even knew she had no job. IDK, I have been on the side of having a crazy brother/gf, thank God they have no children. But I will say one thing about them, they took care of their dog while they were living in their truck. He got fed before they would eat. Luckily they have both turned their crazy butts around and are productive citizens. I thank God every night for that!

JSM, I am really lost.  Lee and Mallory were living in their truck?  I read something earlier about George kicking Lee out when he moved back in?  Somemonkey HELP!!! 

Sorry Blurry. I should have said this better. MY brother and his gf were living in their truck with the dog. I was saying that I have been on the side of GA/CA that sometimes we are caught between a rock and a hard place. My brother's ordeal was what I was trying to say was my rock/hard place. Does that make sense. Sorry I am tired and confusing tonight!

Thanks, JSM.  The tired and confusing is me, not you.  I lost my place, was scrolling back, reread your post, and realized how I had misinterpreted you.  (I hoped a mod could erase it, 'cause it's just clutter), but I'm behind and don't even know if they do that.  I also botched a post tonight in Musings, so it's time for this monkey to hush.

Sorry about their hard times and how that must have stressed your family, but it's great to hear they're doing well!

[Foggy Dew]

Foggy Dew

I'm glad to See U ... I did read what you just wrote ... 

I just wanted to say HI I look for you ... I seem to miss u when your online lately

I'm here, Deenie.  Just trying to wrap my brain around some of this info re. Caylee so don't post as much as my impulses would like ha ha.  I don't think I"m a true Scared Monkey.  Well, I'm scared and am a monkey, but not able to deal w/the knowledge that so many are lost and alone.  I see those two pics of Caylee that remind me so much of my older teen when she was a toddler.  They kind of keep me here.

As re. NG?  Well, I don't let her affect bug me.  I have bigger fish to fry.  And her "bombshell" utterances?  I just tune it out. I watch her show for the guests with whom I may or may not agree.  I just enjoy hearing folks' perspectives.  But the show itself is enough to turn a person w/a pacific personality into a raving looney.

I'd so love to hear folks finish a thought before she says something like, "...says you."  I wonder if she interrupts her friends/family when they are trying to articulate a story or if its all the director/producer that think(s) it makes for good tv. 

Whatev.  The alpha female thing is lost on me ha ha...and kind of demeaning to the guests I think.

But hey, she's the one making the big bucks so who am I to judge.



I strive not to sweat the small stuff though.   

[Bearlyhere]

Bearly - your mom is in my prayers!   I'll pray for the doctors that are helping her, too.     

Thank you!

Count me in for praying for your mom as well!

Karen

Thanks, Sparky.  I hope you don't change your name to something too different.

[da sparkenator]

Klaas

Howdy!!!  I have a technical question (sort of).  If I change my user name, will my posts go to "0" again?

Thank you!

Karen

No.  You mean change the name people see in the forum?  No, your posts will stay the same.  It does get confusing for others sometimes though. 

Well it's kind of a new years new me thing I wanna do . . . I'll still think about it.

[Deenie]

I keep getting blown out of my Computer .. Not via SM but my computer itself ..  makin me NUTS ... I keep losing internet connection ..arrr

Just doing a Monkey Drive By with Foggy Dew ... if she likes
I made this for you to use ...so your not Neked any longer

[Foggy Dew]

I dislike the ANT family just as much as anyone here, but the time to get help for Casey would have been before she was 18, when they had some legal control. After that, they should have made a move ( lock her out, whatever )  to protect Caylee. 
I am sorry for the rant, been saving it up. I do feel like yelling at them still sometimes, but none of them are here any more. I just try to not be a know it all when it comes to what other ppl at my work / around here in real life or whatever should do in their own families. I just have to remember what we went through and what it did to us. 
Sometimes, there is no right thing that can be done.

My husband and I sought custody of his 2 children.  After a very long emotionally and financially drawn out battle, we finally prevailed!  Florida and in most states - want bio moms and children to remain united.  IMO, from our experience, the Anthony's had very little chance of getting custody.

I agree with you mytime...it takes an enormous amount of "provable" evidence of negelect and abuse, for the state to remove a child parental rights..especially a mother's..even then it's a long hard battle which has only a small chance of being won. Unfortunately, most of the child abuse that takes place is behind closed doors and when out in public, the mothers act completely different....the abuse is most often never seen until something catastrophic takes place.. I don't think G & C would have gotten custody based on what we've heard of KC's "public presentation" parenting skills..we've heard nothing but good things from KC's friends 

Now see that's one thing that's been bugging me.  Surely there are folks from her past who listened to their 6th sense and chose to steer clear of her.  Those are the folks I want to hear from--the smart ones who weren't sucked into her game.

[nomorenekkiddogs]

Gnite monkeys,  see ya in the morn


 

[NO1ZMONKEY]

Klaas

Howdy!!!  I have a technical question (sort of).  If I change my user name, will my posts go to "0" again?

Thank you!

Karen

No.  You mean change the name people see in the forum?  No, your posts will stay the same.  It does get confusing for others sometimes though. 

Well it's kind of a new years new me thing I wanna do . . . I'll still think about it.

   Da SparK! u inspired me to change my name! i didnt even know you could, so thank you for asking, i was never happy that i chose that name and i thought i was stuck with it. It was just an old email addy that i made when my bf passed, and when i became a scared monkey i didnt realize how many times i would see the name over, and over. So new year, new monkey addy! TY for the muse!   

[Tamikosmom]

Duuuucky ... where are you?   Duuuucky ... time to go home!   Duuucky!

mytime ... I am not amused!!!!

 

Janet

[Deenie]

I dislike the ANT family just as much as anyone here, but the time to get help for Casey would have been before she was 18, when they had some legal control. After that, they should have made a move ( lock her out, whatever )  to protect Caylee. 
I am sorry for the rant, been saving it up. I do feel like yelling at them still sometimes, but none of them are here any more. I just try to not be a know it all when it comes to what other ppl at my work / around here in real life or whatever should do in their own families. I just have to remember what we went through and what it did to us. 
Sometimes, there is no right thing that can be done.

My husband and I sought custody of his 2 children.  After a very long emotionally and financially drawn out battle, we finally prevailed!  Florida and in most states - want bio moms and children to remain united.  IMO, from our experience, the Anthony's had very little chance of getting custody.

I agree with you mytime...it takes an enormous amount of "provable" evidence of negelect and abuse, for the state to remove a child parental rights..especially a mother's..even then it's a long hard battle which has only a small chance of being won. Unfortunately, most of the child abuse that takes place is behind closed doors and when out in public, the mothers act completely different....the abuse is most often never seen until something catastrophic takes place.. I don't think G & C would have gotten custody based on what we've heard of KC's "public presentation" parenting skills..we've heard nothing but good things from KC's friends 

Now see that's one thing that's been bugging me.  Surely there are folks from her past who listened to their 6th sense and chose to steer clear of her.  Those are the folks I want to hear from--the smart ones who weren't sucked into her game.

Me too ..where are her Friends .. Like I have said before about Casey ..she only had Friends in Need ..who became her friends indeed. For Partying.

Others knew better and that's why she sits without anyone in her corner.

My best friend was married right out of High School and had a Baby shortly after - she had so many friends " female friends" supporting her and they never left her ..Her being not yet 19 when her first child was born. We as a circle of friends never left her side, and would not. It all goes without saying .. what you give is what you get in return .. my thoughts anyway..

[Foggy Dew]

CBB, re. Casey never feeling love for Caylee: something that's nagged at me is how long was it after Caylee's birth did she hold her.  I recall GA saying that CA held her first, but never heard anything more after that.

I don't "get" the deal of mothers who don't bond w/their offspring, but I can imagine that KC wasn't in tune w/the notion of having a child so the fact that she wasn't immediately placed in her mothers arms is a huge red flag re. what might have transpired in the delivery room (KC possibly rejecting her baby, thereby not bonding/CA holding the newborn) that culminated in a pattern of  neglect by a narcissistic mother and death of a 2 y/o toddler.

Some may think this is fanciful thinking, for normal mothers don't "get" not bonding w/their offspring.  But love is a wierd thing.  Why do we love some folks but not all?  Imho, its cause we lack a "bond".

I wonder if the poor little lamb wasn't doomed from the start.  So, so sad...

Foggy - ITA.  And you need to get dressed!!  lol

Shleroy, what do you mean I need to get dressed ha ha?  I'm wearing two layers at last count and if I push away from my desk, two snuggly, furry doggies drape themselves over me as well.

[mytime]

Duuuucky ... where are you?   Duuuucky ... time to go home!   Duuucky!

mytime ... I am not amused!!!!

 

Janet

Janet,

We may need to talk!  Duckie is upset because you spend all you time at NH!! 
Just saying!!

[Bearlyhere]

Gnite monkeys,  see ya in the morn


 

 

[rmcalo]

Hey everyone, am moving this week into my own apt, and was packing all afternoon.  And WOW!!  Just staggering in from catching up on the last thread.. 

Monken, Perri, and NoRose CG, I read what you wrote to me, thank you so much. 

My heart goes out to all our monkey family who have lost loved ones thru any means, and to those struggling in life.  Janetruth, if you are reading here, am hoping you come back in and post.  And to those who have perhaps pulled back from posting, please come back too, we need you in here as well.     

I think we could all use a big group monkey hug:

OMG, the little monkey peeking out!

Monkey hugs back and all around the cage. 

The feeling I get in this forum is that lil monkey peeking out represents all our more fragile monkeys.  We care about and protect each other in here.   

ITA.  And I think who the more fragile monkeys are can depend on the days and the circumstances.  Sometimes the seemingly stronger ones need to be the little protected one for a bit. 

Blurry is 

Thanks, Deenie.  Back atcha!

That's a great photo. I love it. I haven't had much time to post lately because baby and I are now BOTH sick. We have the "crud" that all the other monkeys had been talking about the last few weeks . . . But, anyway, I just want to tell all of you how much I enjoy reading your posts and what great people you all seem to be. Everyone here has such wonderful insight on life and human relationships. I wish anyone who has suffered or is suffering in ANY WAY AT ALL that he/she will receive much comfort and peace. Losing a loved one is a terrible thing, no matter how it happens.

I lost a good friend when I was 20 years old. She was a source of much fun and good friendship beginning when I was 9 years old. She lived on a lake and would take me canoeing and sailing with her family. We also ice-skated on the lake in the winter. When we were both 20 and away at college, she was hit by a drunk driver and died. Sudden deaths like that are always hard to contend with. That's one of the reasons that the topic of suicide, I think, struck such a tender cord on this forum.