Caylee Marie Anthony #97 1/23/09 - 1/24/09

[mytime]

There is something that has played around in my head all day. I think most of us agree that the heart on the duct tape is shocking. It brings Caylee's death to a visual. You can see Casey pressing that heart over her daughter's taped mouth. That's a picture that is REALLY hard for me to get out of my mind. I think that would get to George, too.

But there's something else. When Caylee was confirmed dead, I guarantee you that lots of people at church and elsewhere expressed their sympathy to George and Cindy with words of how Caylee was free, and safe, and happy. People have assured them that Caylee loved them, and that she was at total peace and in a place of total love.

Those sentiments can play tricks on people suffering from real depression. George could not protect Caylee anymore, she was gone and it was too late. But George said, he wanted to go be with Caylee. That makes sense in a twisted way. He may have needed to "see" for himself that she was alright, and needed that reassurance more than ever after the heart thing. He may also have wanted to be in such a peaceful place away from the torment of "what if's" and the constant pullings of Cindy. He may have just felt if he could hold Caylee in such a place, he could be whole again.

I don't know, it's just speculation.

CBB - I always love reading your posts!   This was another great one!!

[cecilita]

There is something that has played around in my head all day. I think most of us agree that the heart on the duct tape is shocking. It brings Caylee's death to a visual. You can see Casey pressing that heart over her daughter's taped mouth. That's a picture that is REALLY hard for me to get out of my mind. I think that would get to George, too.

But there's something else. When Caylee was confirmed dead, I guarantee you that lots of people at church and elsewhere expressed their sympathy to George and Cindy with words of how Caylee was free, and safe, and happy. People have assured them that Caylee loved them, and that she was at total peace and in a place of total love.

Those sentiments can play tricks on people suffering from real depression. George could not protect Caylee anymore, she was gone and it was too late. But George said, he wanted to go be with Caylee. That makes sense in a twisted way. He may have needed to "see" for himself that she was alright, and needed that reassurance more than ever after the heart thing. He may also have wanted to be in such a peaceful place away from the torment of "what if's" and the constant pullings of Cindy. He may have just felt if he could hold Caylee in such a place, he could be whole again.

I don't know, it's just speculation.

I think all his drama is because he wants to show that he thinks somebody else killed caylee and he did not help to destroy evidence

[klaasend]

klaas, can you post the pic of caylee with the little scarf (kerchif) in her hair

Here's one

[peanut]

CBB, I get what your saying.  George said he wanted to be with Caylee.  I don't doubt that for one minute.  I think he ached to be with that little girl and hold her again.  On the other hand, I really don't think George had the courage to commit suicide to "be with Caylee."  He wanted to be with her, but that does not mean that he had the strength and will to take his own life to "be with her."  When George wrote this, he wanted to be with Caylee, but that is not the same thing as deliberately taking the actions to kill himself and achieve this.  Frankly, he's too big of a coward to take his own life.

can we please agree not to judge what makes people really suicidal?

[crazybabyborg]

Evening Monkeys,

Does anyone have the prison visitors log for Casey? I want to know what "visiting hours" are and under what circumstances attorneys are granted exemptions. According to the reporter in the link below, Baez was with Casey until 12midnight Thursday night. Is this typical for attorney-client visits? or typical for Baez-Casey visits?

http://www.clickorlando.com/video/18549643/index.html (relevant statement at approx 3 minute mark)

Brachiate   

Hi Brachiate!! I heard that too, and wondered how the heck Baez managed that!! Surely the policies don't include midnight visits!!   

[AZLady]

ya how can you tell its real or pr? *coughbaezbozocough*

In the long run, it's fairly obvious.  Personal integrity is just that--personal.  You know if you are acting with integrity or not.  You might fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool yourself.  In the end, the world sees.

[peanut]

Evening Monkeys,

Does anyone have the prison visitors log for Casey? I want to know what "visiting hours" are and under what circumstances attorneys are granted exemptions. According to the reporter in the link below, Baez was with Casey until 12midnight Thursday night. Is this typical for attorney-client visits? or typical for Baez-Casey visits?

http://www.clickorlando.com/video/18549643/index.html (relevant statement at approx 3 minute mark)

Brachiate   

Hi Brachiate!! I heard that too, and wondered how the heck Baez managed that!! Surely the policies don't include midnight visits!!   

sure it does. its called convict cuddling. its all hes good for. or make that convict coddling.

[cecilita]

CBB, I get what your saying.  George said he wanted to be with Caylee.  I don't doubt that for one minute.  I think he ached to be with that little girl and hold her again.  On the other hand, I really don't think George had the courage to commit suicide to "be with Caylee."  He wanted to be with her, but that does not mean that he had the strength and will to take his own life to "be with her."  When George wrote this, he wanted to be with Caylee, but that is not the same thing as deliberately taking the actions to kill himself and achieve this.  Frankly, he's too big of a coward to take his own life.

can we please agree not to judge what makes people really suicidal?

if it was a suicidal note should say i will be with caylee now

[dottie]

 
Coming out of lurking (still 20 pages back) to thank a few for their opinions and comments.  I had to leave a few days ago because things were just hitting to close to home and it's really hard to read some of the statments.

Thank you Dolce for having the courage to stay in and continue to voice your opinions.  I agree, there is nothing funny or to be celebrated
about a persons pain (wether self induced or not) that would lead them to take their own life.  I find those opinions quite disturbing.

   Nobody, not one of us here can know with certainty what GA envolvement and or mind set was 6 months ago or today.  I guess for me it would make it a little easier if these opinions were stated with IMO not as facts.  I wrote to a sweet monkey that e-mailed me after I left that from experience I can tell you that things are not always as they seem in anybodys home and if at a few different points in my sons illness you may have thought that I was a raging lunatic. Mental illness in a family affect everyone and personality disorders are considered a brain illness (not legal) but none the less an illness. My heart goes out to anyone that has had to live with any of these illness or disorders and for those of you that haven't I hope you never have to find out.

IMO, I think all the A's probably have varring degrees of gulit in Caylees death and it breaks my heart for little Caylee.  Justice for Caylee is the priority here but I do have sympathy for George and pray God will touch his heart and give him peace.  IMO, George did not murder his grandaughter, he did lie, lying is a sin, we are all sinners but do we deserve to die for our lies. I think we sometimes forget, "THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I ".Thanks also to Garden Gnome, Peanut, anothermon KCJackie, Luckycharms,lovin and I'm sure others I have missed.  I appreciate your opinions.

[Desdemona]

Hello Monkeys,  very wierd stuff going on in the past 24 hours huh!.......Anyway, I just wanted to say, I understand where some would have differences of opinions about George's suicide attemp and how everything got heated with this discussion.
     
      Let me say first of all that the past actions of this family is what makes it so hard to feel any sympathy for them as we would for anyone else in the same circumstances,  IMO,  if George was gonna committ suicide and really had that on his mind, I believe he wouldnt be here right now!
       I think if this was what he really wanted to do, Cindy nor anyone else would have known anything about it, at least not until his body was found.   
       I dont know what he was doing nor why he was doing it, but I do know that if he wanted to be dead, then he would be, and so I can only speculate that he was trying to accomplish something other than suicide!

Hi, HH !

I said I wasn't going to debate anything about this, but when I read your post, I decided to go ahead and tell you Monkeys that a family member attempted to committed suicide in just this way -- in a motel room -- years ago after coming up missing one day.  Right down to driving out of town without telling anyone, phone calls saying I don't want to live any more, not telling anyone the location, having friendly conversation with the motel manager, buying junk food and alcohol for the "last meal," multiple bottles of prescription pills, long suicide note crafted while at the motel, etc. 

If my family member had been found even a minute or two later, it would have been a 100% successful suicide attempt.  As it was, it was about 90% successful.  When found, my family member had no vital signs and had to be resuscitated... wasn't expected to survive at all.  Permanent brain damage and cannot function in society any more.  Disabled.  Requires round-the-clock care.

If there had been GPS back then, and my family member had been located sooner and intercepted like George was... it would have been a very different outcome... and we could very well have been speculating whether it was a "serious" attempt or just a ploy for attention.  As it turned out, there was no doubt.

I was so re-living it last night.  It was kind of traumatic, the whole flashback thing.  That happened years ago, but last night brought it all back in an instant.

Anyway, no debate, just read your friendly way of wording this and decided to put my personal perspective out there... see what you think.

[crazybabyborg]

There is something that has played around in my head all day. I think most of us agree that the heart on the duct tape is shocking. It brings Caylee's death to a visual. You can see Casey pressing that heart over her daughter's taped mouth. That's a picture that is REALLY hard for me to get out of my mind. I think that would get to George, too.

But there's something else. When Caylee was confirmed dead, I guarantee you that lots of people at church and elsewhere expressed their sympathy to George and Cindy with words of how Caylee was free, and safe, and happy. People have assured them that Caylee loved them, and that she was at total peace and in a place of total love.

Those sentiments can play tricks on people suffering from real depression. George could not protect Caylee anymore, she was gone and it was too late. But George said, he wanted to go be with Caylee. That makes sense in a twisted way. He may have needed to "see" for himself that she was alright, and needed that reassurance more than ever after the heart thing. He may also have wanted to be in such a peaceful place away from the torment of "what if's" and the constant pullings of Cindy. He may have just felt if he could hold Caylee in such a place, he could be whole again.

I don't know, it's just speculation.

CBB - I always love reading your posts!   This was another great one!!

  OK, Mytime......what do you want??? 

Thanks, and right back at you!! 

[monkeymike]

CBB, Great post. Thanks.



Reader more so, than a poster.

[mytime]

Des, that is so true.  Knowing and saying the truth is the only way the Anthony's can recover their lives.  It is apparent that George has reached his limit and can't deal with the stress any longer.  My hope is that professional help will guide him to the realization that only by being honest with himself, as well as the rest of the world, will he find peace and lessen his stress.  It has come to the point that there are only two choices for any of the Anthony's:  honesty within and with the world or continue on a path of destruction.  They are like addicts who have to reach rock bottom and then realize that only personal honesty and integrity will save them.  Perhaps George has reached his rock-bottom, but somehow, I doubt it.  I still think they all have a lot more falling to do before they see the way out.

i dont understand. what difference does it make to case? i mean sure i think people just want them to wake up out of denial but him coming out and saying my daughter is lying skank babykiller isnt going to change the prosecutions case, all itll do is semi appease people who want to shoot them for being blinded by loyalty.

I think you misread my post.  I wrote: "Knowing and saying the truth is the only way the Anthony's can recover their lives."  It won't make any difference in this case.  The prosecution has this case nailed with sufficient evidence to convict.  I'm sure of that.  I was talking about the obvious stress and unhappiness we've seen in George and Cindy.  The only way George and Cindy will ever find any peace and a semblance of a peaceful life is to make the choice to be honest with themselves and with the world.  Actually, I think that is the best path to happiness for everyone.  George and Cindy are suffering from the results of their own choices.   I see this.  I also think that their choice now is simple (but not easy for them).  Honesty and integrity within and with the world is their only way out of suffering.

Hi AZLady!  I have to say that I agree with you!  However, they will need to find forgiveness too.  That may not be a popular word right now but forgiving Casey and themselves will be necessary for their road to healing and recovery!!  IMO

[Desdemona]

Des, that is so true.  Knowing and saying the truth is the only way the Anthony's can recover their lives.  It is apparent that George has reached his limit and can't deal with the stress any longer.  My hope is that professional help will guide him to the realization that only by being honest with himself, as well as the rest of the world, will he find peace and lessen his stress.  It has come to the point that there are only two choices for any of the Anthony's:  honesty within and with the world or continue on a path of destruction.  They are like addicts who have to reach rock bottom and then realize that only personal honesty and integrity will save them.  Perhaps George has reached his rock-bottom, but somehow, I doubt it.  I still think they all have a lot more falling to do before they see the way out.

Right.  Case in point:  Klaas's post about George's alleged claims in his alleged suicide note, that he doesn't think Casey did it....  Klaas is right, this really does work against the sympathy factor...

[Puzzler]

What time was George actually last seen?  According to the 911 call from the lawyer, he was last seen at 8:30am. In the police report, CA said he was last seen at 10:30am.  Why a change/discrepancy with the times?

George left and came back and left again

[peanut]

 
Coming out of lurking (still 20 pages back) to thank a few for their opinions and comments.  I had to leave a few days ago because things were just hitting to close to home and it's really hard to read some of the statments.

Thank you Dolce for having the courage to stay in and continue to voice your opinions.  I agree, there is nothing funny or to be celebrated
about a persons pain (wether self induced or not) that would lead them to take their own life.  I find those opinions quite disturbing.

   Nobody, not one of us here can know with certainty what GA envolvement and or mind set was 6 months ago or today.  I guess for me it would make it a little easier if these opinions were stated with IMO not as facts.  I wrote to a sweet monkey that e-mailed me after I left that from experience I can tell you that things are not always as they seem in anybodys home and if at a few different points in my sons illness you may have thought that I was a raging lunatic. Mental illness in a family affect everyone and personality disorders are considered a brain illness (not legal) but none the less an illness. My heart goes out to anyone that has had to live with any of these illness or disorders and for those of you that haven't I hope you never have to find out.

IMO, I think all the A's probably have varring degrees of gulit in Caylees death and it breaks my heart for little Caylee.  Justice for Caylee is the priority here but I do have sympathy for George and pray God will touch his heart and give him peace.  IMO, George did not murder his grandaughter, he did lie, lying is a sin, we are all sinners but do we deserve to die for our lies. I think we sometimes forget, "THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I ".Thanks also to Garden Gnome, Peanut, anothermon KCJackie, Luckycharms,lovin and I'm sure others I have missed.  I appreciate your opinions.

*hugs* dottie. i dont think some people realize how much, pain, guilt and shame are involved. and i like you hope they never ever find out.

[Desdemona]

<snipped by Desi>
Guess my big girl panties just aren't big enough sometimes...

hell mine arent either. i allowed myself to get them twisted into a knot this morning.

 

[AZLady]

CBB, I get what your saying.  George said he wanted to be with Caylee.  I don't doubt that for one minute.  I think he ached to be with that little girl and hold her again.  On the other hand, I really don't think George had the courage to commit suicide to "be with Caylee."  He wanted to be with her, but that does not mean that he had the strength and will to take his own life to "be with her."  When George wrote this, he wanted to be with Caylee, but that is not the same thing as deliberately taking the actions to kill himself and achieve this.  Frankly, he's too big of a coward to take his own life.

can we please agree not to judge what makes people really suicidal?

Huh?  I'm simply pointing there is a difference between "wanting" and actually taking action to obtain something.  I think people might misinterpret George saying he "wanted to be with Caylee" to mean that he wanted to commit suicide.  These two phrases may not mean the same thing.  I don't presume to judge what makes people suicidal. 

[peanut]

CBB, I get what your saying.  George said he wanted to be with Caylee.  I don't doubt that for one minute.  I think he ached to be with that little girl and hold her again.  On the other hand, I really don't think George had the courage to commit suicide to "be with Caylee."  He wanted to be with her, but that does not mean that he had the strength and will to take his own life to "be with her."  When George wrote this, he wanted to be with Caylee, but that is not the same thing as deliberately taking the actions to kill himself and achieve this.  Frankly, he's too big of a coward to take his own life.

can we please agree not to judge what makes people really suicidal?

Huh?  I'm simply pointing there is a difference between "wanting" and actually taking action to obtain something.  I think people might misinterpret George saying he "wanted to be with Caylee" to mean that he wanted to commit suicide.  These two phrases may not mean the same thing.  I don't presume to judge what makes people suicidal. 

but..you just said hes too big a coward to do it. isnt that a judgement?

[Foggy Dew]

<respectfully snipped for length by Desi>

As I said (in other words) in an earlier post when I ceased lurking and joined up, if any of the family or others are criminally liable for whatever, LE and the State will deal w/them when the time is right.

I think describing a member of the family as a molester, sociopathic, and any number of labels is counter-productive, though I do understand folks need to wrap their brains around all that is transpired. 

And of course I understand we have a collective need to vent for this case is so heartrending.  But imho, name calling and diagnosing what we consider each family members pathology is just that: venting.  None of us is there.  And we certainly aren't privileged to know all that LE/State "has" to take this thing to trial.  But my heart sank (again) when I read yesterday morn that GA was suspected of being suicidal.

I've been watching this case from the outset, but now I'm gonna put my trust in LE and the State and refrain from judging them for now.  Of course I have opinions about this heartrending tragedy, but again--I'm not there. 

Rest in peace Caylee.

 

Thank you for this measured and thoughtful post, Foggy.  It helped me tonight.

Back at you, Des.  I appreciate the passion for justice that we all feel...but it seems that some take different paths to get there.  Myself, I'm thinking LE/State has an ample file of evidence on alleged perp so I'm gonna kick back and patiently await the trial. 

Don't get me wrong--I'm a country girl w/an attitude prob and would love to blow off some steam in a face-to-face w/the principals in this case.  But it wouldn't buy me any peace of mind.  I'd be better off just counting my blessings and hope and pray that my own child knows sympathy/empathy for a helpless human or animal--something that appears to be lacking in the makeup of alleged perp. 

Des, I want to fly off the handle and scream epithets re. what's happened to wee Caylee.  I'd even love to pummel some of the players in this pathetic mess--and I've never pummeled any living creature.

But you know what gets me too?  These folks were living you-know-what to elbow and the neighbors didn't hear much--or their concerns re. hearing family battles weren't notable enough to call for help.  What is that all about?  NG said something on Dr Phil Fri re. there not being a Good Samaritan rule for Americans.  And here I thought empathy was instilled in one from jump street--when one is a wee one.

When Susan Smith (for example) killed her boys it was kind of cut and dried.  She was easy to detest. And I guess this case is pretty cut and dried too, but there is something much more awe-inspiring about this alleged perp.  I think it spooks some to a depth many have never considered.   And frustration begets anger imho.

I'm not gonna get bogged down in anger with any of the players.  I am gonna kick back and wait for the person who is alleged to have ended the life of the sweet baby to go to trial.  I'm not too concerned about other players being indicted for this crime or that.  Folks'll get "theirs" as The Law in Orlando sees fit. 

In the meantime, I'm gonna do like I've always done, live like the lyrics from a blast-from-the-past Todd Rundgren song recommend:  "...Save your regrets for the dead, but for the living, give them love, give them bread...one more hungry mouth to be fed, give them love, give them bread..."

If folks feel so passionately about truth, justice, and the American way, help out kids however and whenever one can.  In Caylee's memory, let's strive to look out for the helpless ones a bit more.

God rest and keep Miss Caylee...