Caylee Marie Anthony #97 1/23/09 - 1/24/09

[mytime]

There is something that has played around in my head all day. I think most of us agree that the heart on the duct tape is shocking. It brings Caylee's death to a visual. You can see Casey pressing that heart over her daughter's taped mouth. That's a picture that is REALLY hard for me to get out of my mind. I think that would get to George, too.

But there's something else. When Caylee was confirmed dead, I guarantee you that lots of people at church and elsewhere expressed their sympathy to George and Cindy with words of how Caylee was free, and safe, and happy. People have assured them that Caylee loved them, and that she was at total peace and in a place of total love.

Those sentiments can play tricks on people suffering from real depression. George could not protect Caylee anymore, she was gone and it was too late. But George said, he wanted to go be with Caylee. That makes sense in a twisted way. He may have needed to "see" for himself that she was alright, and needed that reassurance more than ever after the heart thing. He may also have wanted to be in such a peaceful place away from the torment of "what if's" and the constant pullings of Cindy. He may have just felt if he could hold Caylee in such a place, he could be whole again.

I don't know, it's just speculation.

CBB - I always love reading your posts!   This was another great one!!

  OK, Mytime......what do you want??? 

Thanks, and right back at you!! 

LOL - I get no respect!!  Maybe I should change my name to Rodney!! 

[Desdemona]

well gang... i guess i am gonna head on outta here...
my contacts are sticken to my eyes.... i tried to read all that link that rmcalo had ... and my eyes were nearly crossing with the sideways pages..

to be honest....i am just fried with this case...
i really had thought that casey had somehow snapped.. lost her temper.. heck even accidental overdose.. SOMETHING .. ANYTHING... something other than the sick picture i have in my head now of a tiny little baby girl with DUCT TAPE.. AND heart STICKER on her mouth... anything.. ANY THING other than that horrific picture of what must have happened...

so ... for the time being... i cant think of that little song.. YOU ARE MY SUNSHINE... those little girly things.. POOH and HEARTS... i cant think of DUCT TAPE or garbage bags with YELLOW ties... i just keep thinking that i should stop thinking about it ALL...

and yet i cant...

caylee deserves that we dont look away...

 
And so we won't, but we can close our eyes and rest, restore ourselves and regain our strength when needed...Goodnight, Kim...

[peanut]

<respectfully snipped for length by Desi>

As I said (in other words) in an earlier post when I ceased lurking and joined up, if any of the family or others are criminally liable for whatever, LE and the State will deal w/them when the time is right.

I think describing a member of the family as a molester, sociopathic, and any number of labels is counter-productive, though I do understand folks need to wrap their brains around all that is transpired. 

And of course I understand we have a collective need to vent for this case is so heartrending.  But imho, name calling and diagnosing what we consider each family members pathology is just that: venting.  None of us is there.  And we certainly aren't privileged to know all that LE/State "has" to take this thing to trial.  But my heart sank (again) when I read yesterday morn that GA was suspected of being suicidal.

I've been watching this case from the outset, but now I'm gonna put my trust in LE and the State and refrain from judging them for now.  Of course I have opinions about this heartrending tragedy, but again--I'm not there. 

Rest in peace Caylee.

 

Thank you for this measured and thoughtful post, Foggy.  It helped me tonight.

Back at you, Des.  I appreciate the passion for justice that we all feel...but it seems that some take different paths to get there.  Myself, I'm thinking LE/State has an ample file of evidence on alleged perp so I'm gonna kick back and patiently await the trial. 

Don't get me wrong--I'm a country girl w/an attitude prob and would love to blow off some steam in a face-to-face w/the principals in this case.  But it wouldn't buy me any peace of mind.  I'd be better off just counting my blessings and hope and pray that my own child knows sympathy/empathy for a helpless human or animal--something that appears to be lacking in the makeup of alleged perp. 

Des, I want to fly off the handle and scream epithets re. what's happened to wee Caylee.  I'd even love to pummel some of the players in this pathetic mess--and I've never pummeled any living creature.

But you know what gets me too?  These folks were living you-know-what to elbow and the neighbors didn't hear much--or their concerns re. hearing family battles weren't notable enough to call for help.  What is that all about?  NG said something on Dr Phil Fri re. there not being a Good Samaritan rule for Americans.  And here I thought empathy was instilled in one from jump street--when one is a wee one.

When Susan Smith (for example) killed her boys it was kind of cut and dried.  She was easy to detest. And I guess this case is pretty cut and dried too, but there is something much more awe-inspiring about this alleged perp.  I think it spooks some to a depth many have never considered.   And frustration begets anger imho.

I'm not gonna get bogged down in anger with any of the players.  I am gonna kick back and wait for the person who is alleged to have ended the life of the sweet baby to go to trial.  I'm not too concerned about other players being indicted for this crime or that.  Folks'll get "theirs" as The Law in Orlando sees fit. 

In the meantime, I'm gonna do like I've always done, live like the lyrics from a blast-from-the-past Todd Rundgren song recommend:  "...Save your regrets for the dead, but for the living, give them love, give them bread...one more hungry mouth to be fed, give them love, give them bread..."

If folks feel so passionately about truth, justice, and the American way, help out kids however and whenever one can.  In Caylee's memory, let's strive to look out for the helpless ones a bit more.

God rest and keep Miss Caylee...

wow foggy, good for you. the states going to put that cow away for good. ijust hope itll be in generalpopulation, the states already spent way too much money on her sicko ass.

[heykim]

well gang... i guess i am gonna head on outta here...
my contacts are sticken to my eyes.... i tried to read all that link that rmcalo had ... and my eyes were nearly crossing with the sideways pages..

to be honest....i am just fried with this case...
i really had thought that casey had somehow snapped.. lost her temper.. heck even accidental overdose.. SOMETHING .. ANYTHING... something other than the sick picture i have in my head now of a tiny little baby girl with DUCT TAPE.. AND heart STICKER on her mouth... anything.. ANY THING other than that horrific picture of what must have happened...

so ... for the time being... i cant think of that little song.. YOU ARE MY SUNSHINE... those little girly things.. POOH and HEARTS... i cant think of DUCT TAPE or garbage bags with YELLOW ties... i just keep thinking that i should stop thinking about it ALL...

and yet i cant...

caylee deserves that we dont look away...

Night, heykim!! Get some sleep and take care of your eyes! There will be support here for Caylee's memory until it's over. Just visit Natalee's thread...........you'll see it!  Sleep Well!

thx kiddo... i got to tuck my little grandson in bed.. tell him a "story" (he likes me to make up stories about him and his big brother (who had to move to another far away state with his dad ...) about happy times.... instead of reading a book..

anywho...

i will be back tomorrow... and the next day... and as many days as it takes ... till SOME sort of justice is done... and that baby is laid to rest....


nite everyone!

[AZLady]

Des, that is so true.  Knowing and saying the truth is the only way the Anthony's can recover their lives.  It is apparent that George has reached his limit and can't deal with the stress any longer.  My hope is that professional help will guide him to the realization that only by being honest with himself, as well as the rest of the world, will he find peace and lessen his stress.  It has come to the point that there are only two choices for any of the Anthony's:  honesty within and with the world or continue on a path of destruction.  They are like addicts who have to reach rock bottom and then realize that only personal honesty and integrity will save them.  Perhaps George has reached his rock-bottom, but somehow, I doubt it.  I still think they all have a lot more falling to do before they see the way out.

i dont understand. what difference does it make to case? i mean sure i think people just want them to wake up out of denial but him coming out and saying my daughter is lying skank babykiller isnt going to change the prosecutions case, all itll do is semi appease people who want to shoot them for being blinded by loyalty.

I think you misread my post.  I wrote: "Knowing and saying the truth is the only way the Anthony's can recover their lives."  It won't make any difference in this case.  The prosecution has this case nailed with sufficient evidence to convict.  I'm sure of that.  I was talking about the obvious stress and unhappiness we've seen in George and Cindy.  The only way George and Cindy will ever find any peace and a semblance of a peaceful life is to make the choice to be honest with themselves and with the world.  Actually, I think that is the best path to happiness for everyone.  George and Cindy are suffering from the results of their own choices.   I see this.  I also think that their choice now is simple (but not easy for them).  Honesty and integrity within and with the world is their only way out of suffering.

Hi AZLady!  I have to say that I agree with you!  However, they will need to find forgiveness too.  That may not be a popular word right now but forgiving Casey and themselves will be necessary for their road to healing and recovery!!  IMO

Hey MyTime!  So true!  Forgiveness will be necessary and that will be difficult.  While I do not condone their actions, I can see their pain, and I feel sad for that.  It's hard to see such pain and not ache for them.  This in no way takes away their responsibility for their actions.  But, I am human, too, and whenever I see human pain like this it makes me hurt.

[Desdemona]

*waves hand* i was cranky! ijust got so damn frustrated that people kept saying fuhrman said george saw the body. thats not what he said. i kept quoting him but conspiracy theories kept going.

I saw that.  Let me apologize for not jumping in.  I was kind of in a daze reading through all the "debate".

But I did see it.  It was kind of like a feeding frenzy or something.  The point was that Fuhrman speculated that Caylee was not put into the trunk until after the 24th, when George saw the trunk without Caylee in it.  (Also b/c the 25th is when Amy said Casey first mentioned to her that her car smelled really bad.)

I do think it's not totally impossible that Caylee could have been in the trunk on the 24th, and George might not have seen anything.  If she were under the spare tire cover, or inside something or covered up, you know... It would explain his version of the story, about how paranoid Casey seemed about letting her dad get near the trunk... but he said it was because of the gas cans, so who knows?

he maybe smelled a dead body that day...Casey never felt guilty when stoled money in front to them(money, credit cards) GA will know that her reaction was for the smell of dead body and not for the gas cans

guys. he said the body had been put in the car after george saw it. it refers to the car.

Oh dear.  What have I done now.... Not me, Peanut!  I really did get it, see my bold above! 

(*sigh* Sorry for mentioning that speculation again... can of worms reopened ... oh, poor Peanut!)

[ISpy]

Against my better judgment I had to post what I am thinking at the moment. Everyone on this board comes here for one thing, justice for Caylee.

I was actually a bit surprised while I was reading in the previous thread the comments on George being a pathological liar, deflecting and possibly setting this attempt up to cause doubt. I take this to be speculation based on emotions, emotions that run deep when we see this sweet little girl and wish so much that she had a different set of circumstances. We can barely speculate on what's wrong with Casey let alone the members of her family.

Ask yourself a question. If he had successfully killed himself, would everyone here be talking about him being a pathological liar that should burn in hell?

If the answer to that is yes then we must be very judgmental as a human race.

Let me preface this by saying, I do not like the way Cindy & George have behaved or what they have said.  I do not believe they are entirely innocent in any respect because they have been caught in far too many lies.
Having said that, my prayer for George tonight is that he will know that the truth will set him free: both the truth of facing the reality that KC killed Caylee (IMO) and the truth of what his life has become and his need for Jesus.  I pray the same for Cindy.  Ezekiel 18:32 "For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord.  Repent and live!".    Matthew 18:14 (Jesus speaking) "in the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost."

[Desdemona]

I heard that GA went to a job interview that morning of his disappearance.....

Yeah, must have really bombed that interview by the looks of it, eh?
(Sorry, bad taste, I know...)
 

[JuJu]

thank you Klaas....that photo is heart wrenching......it's about the eyes, there is no light in them.  eyes that have seen too much, i see fear in them, they are begging for someone to save her.  i don't know if it was the chloroform, but i can't help but think she was being drugged........and God knows what else.   above everything else that has came out the last couple of days, i think it is the heart sticker that has affected us most......how dare that bitch kill that baby and then put that sticker there, but then, she drove around with her in the trunk of that car for days, threw her away like she was garbage. HELL IS NOT HOT ENOUGH FOR HER.  it has just been too much today, i am going to try to get some sleep.

[peanut]

*waves hand* i was cranky! ijust got so damn frustrated that people kept saying fuhrman said george saw the body. thats not what he said. i kept quoting him but conspiracy theories kept going.

I saw that.  Let me apologize for not jumping in.  I was kind of in a daze reading through all the "debate".

But I did see it.  It was kind of like a feeding frenzy or something.  The point was that Fuhrman speculated that Caylee was not put into the trunk until after the 24th, when George saw the trunk without Caylee in it.  (Also b/c the 25th is when Amy said Casey first mentioned to her that her car smelled really bad.)

I do think it's not totally impossible that Caylee could have been in the trunk on the 24th, and George might not have seen anything.  If she were under the spare tire cover, or inside something or covered up, you know... It would explain his version of the story, about how paranoid Casey seemed about letting her dad get near the trunk... but he said it was because of the gas cans, so who knows?

he maybe smelled a dead body that day...Casey never felt guilty when stoled money in front to them(money, credit cards) GA will know that her reaction was for the smell of dead body and not for the gas cans

guys. he said the body had been put in the car after george saw it. it refers to the car.

Oh dear.  What have I done now.... Not me, Peanut!  I really did get it, see my bold above! 

(*sigh* Sorry for mentioning that speculation again... can of worms reopened ... oh, poor Peanut!)

haha no des, i posted a single post right after that saying i misread.*squishes des in a hug*

[higherhopes]

Hello Monkeys,  very wierd stuff going on in the past 24 hours huh!.......Anyway, I just wanted to say, I understand where some would have differences of opinions about George's suicide attemp and how everything got heated with this discussion.
     
      Let me say first of all that the past actions of this family is what makes it so hard to feel any sympathy for them as we would for anyone else in the same circumstances,  IMO,  if George was gonna committ suicide and really had that on his mind, I believe he wouldnt be here right now!
       I think if this was what he really wanted to do, Cindy nor anyone else would have known anything about it, at least not until his body was found.   
       I dont know what he was doing nor why he was doing it, but I do know that if he wanted to be dead, then he would be, and so I can only speculate that he was trying to accomplish something other than suicide!

Hi, HH !

I said I wasn't going to debate anything about this, but when I read your post, I decided to go ahead and tell you Monkeys that a family member attempted to committed suicide in just this way -- in a motel room -- years ago after coming up missing one day.  Right down to driving out of town without telling anyone, phone calls saying I don't want to live any more, not telling anyone the location, having friendly conversation with the motel manager, buying junk food and alcohol for the "last meal," multiple bottles of prescription pills, long suicide note crafted while at the motel, etc. 

If my family member had been found even a minute or two later, it would have been a 100% successful suicide attempt.  As it was, it was about 90% successful.  When found, my family member had no vital signs and had to be resuscitated... wasn't expected to survive at all.  Permanent brain damage and cannot function in society any more.  Disabled.  Requires round-the-clock care.

If there had been GPS back then, and my family member had been located sooner and intercepted like George was... it would have been a very different outcome... and we could very well have been speculating whether it was a "serious" attempt or just a ploy for attention.  As it turned out, there was no doubt.

I was so re-living it last night.  It was kind of traumatic, the whole flashback thing.  That happened years ago, but last night brought it all back in an instant.

Anyway, no debate, just read your friendly way of wording this and decided to put my personal perspective out there... see what you think.

I understand that your family member may have used this method for his way out and it almost worked, but I still think that with George, he knew that if he sent text messages, they could be monitored to find him. hell this entire case that he is smack in the middle of has been all about those pings and being traced, so thats one thing that doesnt hold up for me,  another thing is that he knew how high profile himself and his family were and that as soon as LE was called it would be on,  Its just my opinion that George was crying out for something but not serious about suicide!.......

[cecilita]

I heard that GA went to a job interview that morning of his disappearance.....

Yeah, must have really bombed that interview by the looks of it, eh?
(Sorry, bad taste, I know...)
 

Honestly I thought the same.....in his situation everything is possible

[AZLady]

HH, I agree.  George was crying out.  He was despondent enough to contemplate suicide.  We don't know what was actually in his mind and heart.  We can only see his actions and hear his words.  He appears to have come to the end of his rope and was telling people that.  He also said repeatedly that he just wanted to be left alone.  I hope he can find peace some day.

[crazybabyborg]

Guys, we can debate opinions about suicide until the cows come home, but the thing is, it won't give us answers. THERE ARE VARIOUS REASONS why people take their own life. Some just want freedom from pain, some punish others, some reach that point because they are convinced they are so messed up, it's the only gift they can give to their loved ones. Some reasons are selfish, others are tragically sad. Sometimes suicide is a symptom of an illness.

There are so many myths about it. The most prominent is that people who talk about it don't do it. That could not be further from the truth. I held in my hand today, an autopsy report confirming suicide, and held a friend who was looking at the report about her Mother. She had talked about it, on occasion, for the entire 5 years I knew her, and my friend says she would take bouts of talkng about it for 15 years.

The only unchangable truth about suicide there is, is that it almost always leaves those left behind with more pain. Because of that, I think we need to be very mindful of the experiences within this thread. Let's be sure not to reopen a wound unintentionally, and don't let carelessness cause us to do what we would never do if we had just known and understood.   

[AZLady]

I heard that GA went to a job interview that morning of his disappearance.....

Yeah, must have really bombed that interview by the looks of it, eh?
(Sorry, bad taste, I know...)
 

Honestly I thought the same.....in his situation everything is possible

One more thing that contributed to his despondency. 

[crazybabyborg]

HH, I agree.  George was crying out.  He was despondent enough to contemplate suicide.  We don't know what was actually in his mind and heart.  We can only see his actions and hear his words.  He appears to have come to the end of his rope and was telling people that.  He also said repeatedly that he just wanted to be left alone.  I hope he can find peace some day.

You and I are on the same page, AZ. No surprise there!

[Fuzzball]

Des, that is so true.  Knowing and saying the truth is the only way the Anthony's can recover their lives.  It is apparent that George has reached his limit and can't deal with the stress any longer.  My hope is that professional help will guide him to the realization that only by being honest with himself, as well as the rest of the world, will he find peace and lessen his stress.  It has come to the point that there are only two choices for any of the Anthony's:  honesty within and with the world or continue on a path of destruction.  They are like addicts who have to reach rock bottom and then realize that only personal honesty and integrity will save them.  Perhaps George has reached his rock-bottom, but somehow, I doubt it.  I still think they all have a lot more falling to do before they see the way out.

i dont understand. what difference does it make to case? i mean sure i think people just want them to wake up out of denial but him coming out and saying my daughter is lying skank babykiller isnt going to change the prosecutions case, all itll do is semi appease people who want to shoot them for being blinded by loyalty.

peanut, you have such a good point here. I think this is equally true for all three of the Anthony family members. And you're right--George already spoke his mind pretty freely a number of times, with law enforcement. He mentioned his thoughts about the decomp, he has discussed Casey's lying and stealing, and he's said that he thought Caylee probably was dead, that Casey "finally ripped off the wrong guy."

[peanut]

Hello Monkeys,  very wierd stuff going on in the past 24 hours huh!.......Anyway, I just wanted to say, I understand where some would have differences of opinions about George's suicide attemp and how everything got heated with this discussion.
     
      Let me say first of all that the past actions of this family is what makes it so hard to feel any sympathy for them as we would for anyone else in the same circumstances,  IMO,  if George was gonna committ suicide and really had that on his mind, I believe he wouldnt be here right now!
       I think if this was what he really wanted to do, Cindy nor anyone else would have known anything about it, at least not until his body was found.   
       I dont know what he was doing nor why he was doing it, but I do know that if he wanted to be dead, then he would be, and so I can only speculate that he was trying to accomplish something other than suicide!

Hi, HH !

I said I wasn't going to debate anything about this, but when I read your post, I decided to go ahead and tell you Monkeys that a family member attempted to committed suicide in just this way -- in a motel room -- years ago after coming up missing one day.  Right down to driving out of town without telling anyone, phone calls saying I don't want to live any more, not telling anyone the location, having friendly conversation with the motel manager, buying junk food and alcohol for the "last meal," multiple bottles of prescription pills, long suicide note crafted while at the motel, etc. 

If my family member had been found even a minute or two later, it would have been a 100% successful suicide attempt.  As it was, it was about 90% successful.  When found, my family member had no vital signs and had to be resuscitated... wasn't expected to survive at all.  Permanent brain damage and cannot function in society any more.  Disabled.  Requires round-the-clock care.

If there had been GPS back then, and my family member had been located sooner and intercepted like George was... it would have been a very different outcome... and we could very well have been speculating whether it was a "serious" attempt or just a ploy for attention.  As it turned out, there was no doubt.

I was so re-living it last night.  It was kind of traumatic, the whole flashback thing.  That happened years ago, but last night brought it all back in an instant.

Anyway, no debate, just read your friendly way of wording this and decided to put my personal perspective out there... see what you think.

I understand that your family member may have used this method for his way out and it almost worked, but I still think that with George, he knew that if he sent text messages, they could be monitored to find him. hell this entire case that he is smack in the middle of has been all about those pings and being traced, so thats one thing that doesnt hold up for me,  another thing is that he knew how high profile himself and his family were and that as soon as LE was called it would be on,  Its just my opinion that George was crying out for something but not serious about suicide!.......

omg! des, im so so sorry. i think its important to remember that noone but god can truly know the level of pain it entails and even if you dont feel sorry for the person it doesnt diminish the anguish they and those who love them feel.

[Desdemona]

haha no des, i posted a single post right after that saying i misread.*squishes des in a hug*

Yep, saw it, AFTER I posted this... too late!

Thanks for the "squish" anyway, I really truly needed it tonight.

(Leave it to Peanut the "gigglesnorter" to turn a hug into a "squish!"  Love it!)

[peanut]

Des, that is so true.  Knowing and saying the truth is the only way the Anthony's can recover their lives.  It is apparent that George has reached his limit and can't deal with the stress any longer.  My hope is that professional help will guide him to the realization that only by being honest with himself, as well as the rest of the world, will he find peace and lessen his stress.  It has come to the point that there are only two choices for any of the Anthony's:  honesty within and with the world or continue on a path of destruction.  They are like addicts who have to reach rock bottom and then realize that only personal honesty and integrity will save them.  Perhaps George has reached his rock-bottom, but somehow, I doubt it.  I still think they all have a lot more falling to do before they see the way out.

i dont understand. what difference does it make to case? i mean sure i think people just want them to wake up out of denial but him coming out and saying my daughter is lying skank babykiller isnt going to change the prosecutions cjavascript:void(0);ase, all itll do is semi appease people who want to shoot them for being blinded by loyalty.

peanut, you have such a good point here. I think this is equally true for all three of the Anthony family members. And you're right--George already spoke his mind pretty freely a number of times, with law enforcement. He mentioned his thoughts about the decomp, he has discussed Casey's lying and stealing, and he's said that he thought Caylee probably was dead, that Casey "finally ripped off the wrong guy."

mwah fuzzy!(thats a smooch)