Caylee Marie Anthony #98 1/24/09 - 1/26/09

[Dolce]

O/T but it keeps making me laugh so I thought I would share...

This little dancing monkey ----->      

Dances in tune with the song "Just Dance" by Lady Gaga....it cracks me up!

[Dolce]

I have a lot of confidence in jurors as I think they take their responsibility very seriously.  This will be a heart wrenching case for the jurors.
They take an oath to consider only the evidence presented to them. 

Are you feeling better today Dolce?  Hope so. 

I understand the oath, and I would do my best if a juror to uphold it, but it would still plague my mind and thoughts.  I would not make a very good unbiased juror.

Yes feeling much better thank you!  Getting ready to go to lunch with family.

[Steel Monkey]

I have a lot of confidence in jurors as I think they take their responsibility very seriously.  This will be a heart wrenching case for the jurors.
They take an oath to consider only the evidence presented to them. 

Are you feeling better today Dolce?  Hope so. 

I understand the oath, and I would do my best if a juror to uphold it, but it would still plague my mind and thoughts.  I would not make a very good unbiased juror.

Yes feeling much better thank you!  Getting ready to go to lunch with family.

I pray that the jurors follow instructions.  I have been in too many jury rooms where one individual will keep coming back to something he/she had heard on tv, or read in the papers.  This informatin, of course, is not part of the evidence.  But they get stuck on it.  Days of eleven jurors trying to move one juror back to the facts is a hard thing to do if the one juror is stuck on reasonable doubt evidence that never made it into the court room.

[stephersmbucks]

I respectfully disagree that suicide invalidates life insurance. If you have had the policy for a long enough period of time, the cause of death doesn't matter. I can say this based on the fact that my brother committed suicide and his life insurance did pay. It was a policy that was about 10 years old. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, that with a standard life insurance policy, the suicide clause is void after 2 years.

That is not entirely true.  Suicide and insurance pay out is based completely on the insurance company wether they wish to pay out or not.  Some pay nothing, regardless of the length of time the policy was in place, some pay after a period of 2-5 years, and some pay right away. 
(I am basing this on the knowledge I received from my mother when her brother took a shotgun to the mouth in front of my aunt.  Not only were they left to clean up the mess, but also pay for the funeral as the insurance did not pay out at the time.  The reason above was given, and to this day I have always thought it was ridiculous...the need of the family left behind is still there, and that was the entire purpose of a life insurance policy to begin with.)

morning dolce >->> I agree, as I have had three uncles kill them selves.. One at home, one in the woods under his fav tree, and one hung himself in a hotel room.. No insurances were paid out for any of them. The family was left to deal with everything alone....mio

I apoligize, I was just going based on my own experience and thinking about it, the pay out may have been because my father was the attorney for the insurance agent. Maybe some strings were pulled. Plus it was a small policy, $5,000, which barely covered the funeral expences. I'm sorry for everybodies loses.

[no rose colored glasses]

I have a lot of confidence in jurors as I think they take their responsibility very seriously.  This will be a heart wrenching case for the jurors.
They take an oath to consider only the evidence presented to them. 

Are you feeling better today Dolce?  Hope so. 

I understand the oath, and I would do my best if a juror to uphold it, but it would still plague my mind and thoughts.  I would not make a very good unbiased juror.

Yes feeling much better thank you!  Getting ready to go to lunch with family.

I pray that the jurors follow instructions.  I have been in too many jury rooms where one individual will keep coming back to something he/she had heard on tv, or read in the papers.  This informatin, of course, is not part of the evidence.  But they get stuck on it.  Days of eleven jurors trying to move one juror back to the facts is a hard thing to do if the one juror is stuck on reasonable doubt evidence that never made it into the court room.

I also think they need to make jury instructions easier to understand, that might help matters.

[crazybabyborg]

This admission to the Psych unit is not going to get GA a disability check. First, I'm sure the primary diagnosis is depression.....lots of modifiers to that diagnosis; with or without psychosis, etc., but the onset was clearly circumstantial. That's going to be in the record.

That's a very treatable diagnosis, with a good outcome prognosis and by nature and statistics, when the circumstances are lessened, so is the depression, particularly if there is treatment intervention. The Social Security Administration keeps up with this stuff, and there's no way this is going to give GA a disability check. It simply cannot be demonstrated that this is a chronic, untreatable condition for George.

[strayze]

Steel Monkey...that's what I keep wondering, what will the defense be? The nanny defense would be insane to go with, and now it looks like Baez might attempt to make Morales the fall guy. I'm still thinking it will be some mental defect strategy, I don't think it will work, but I don't know what else they could go with.

I am curious with you NRCG.  I think though Baez would be even more of a dumbass if he tried the mental capacity defense as he already proclaimed that she was not mental when the first DP attorney had been brought in.  The first DP attorney wanted her to undergo a psych eval and testing, Baez said no way as she was perfectly sain and healthy.  If he were to renig on that for sure the prosecution would be all over it with a recording of his original claim of her sanity being intact.  Then again, he is just that stupid, so you could be right on target with this.  The man has a head full of hot air.

IMO if Jose was planning on a mental defect defense he would have had her seeing doctors for that while in jail.So far no doctors are visiting her(or would they transport her to the doc's offices?)going by her visitor logs.IF Jose is going for this type of defense,he better get cracking to establish it.

There are many mental illnesses of various classifications, of which many are not treatable.  In order to mount a "mental" defense, it could only be done by someone affected by a psychotic illness, one who truly does not know right from wrong.  Few mental illnesses fit that description, and in the ncase of Casey, she truly knows right from wrong as she has been covering up her horrific muderess act.  If she fit the description of those who can use the mental defense, she would have talked about the murder.

[no rose colored glasses]

This admission to the Psych unit is not going to get GA a disability check. First, I'm sure the primary diagnosis is depression.....lots of modifiers to that diagnosis; with or without psychosis, etc., but the onset was clearly circumstantial. That's going to be in the record.

That's a very treatable diagnosis, with a good outcome prognosis and by nature and statistics, when the circumstances are lessened, so is the depression, particularly if there is treatment intervention. The Social Security Administration keeps up with this stuff, and there's no way this is going to give GA a disability check. It simply cannot be demonstrated that this is a chronic, untreatable condition for George.

And one thing I'm wondering if George might have done this for Casey to crack, I know it is not likely, but maybe somewhere in his head he thought that. Have some sympathy for him.

[Ono]

Tony was talking to her most of the evening of June 15 th into the 16 th.
She was driving around. That was proven by the pings. Why didn't she go to Tony's ? Tony didn't want the kid there overnights. She must had had Caylee in the car.
He has not as far as I know, talked about that evening.
He has said he had no problems with Caylee or Casey having a kid, but the dope smoking and the party atmosphere at his apartment wasn't suitable for Caylee.
Monday, she has no sitter, no Cindy, George went to work. Jesse not answereing calls.
She wants to go over to Tony's.
She sedates the kid with kiddy cough meds and puts the duct tape over the kids mouth so that the kid can't cry when she wakes up. Makes a game of it with the heart sticker. Puts her in the trunk ?
Goes to Tony's.
Next day, June 17th she finds Caylee dead.
Goes into hide /cover-up mode.
Life goes on for Casey.
..
One of the things asked for in discovery is the timeline Tony was going to put together for LE. That should be coming soon as it was asked for on January 7th.   
 

Hi Kat!  This sounds reasonable...so, George lied about seeing Casey & Caylee leave the house Monday morning as he watched a cooking show and soon it will become very obvious to all that he did lie.  [ How well I remember Scott Peterson lying about watching a cooking show also. ]  If they have received word that they are not getting immunity then possibly that is one of the things which made George freak out ? 

I am curious as to whether or not the Milsteads were to attend that meeting with Conway at the Anthony's house that George missed.  And who else was in attendance ?  What was the pow wow all about that George ran from ?

[Steel Monkey]

This admission to the Psych unit is not going to get GA a disability check. First, I'm sure the primary diagnosis is depression.....lots of modifiers to that diagnosis; with or without psychosis, etc., but the onset was clearly circumstantial. That's going to be in the record.

That's a very treatable diagnosis, with a good outcome prognosis and by nature and statistics, when the circumstances are lessened, so is the depression, particularly if there is treatment intervention. The Social Security Administration keeps up with this stuff, and there's no way this is going to give GA a disability check. It simply cannot be demonstrated that this is a chronic, untreatable condition for George.

And one thing I'm wondering if George might have done this for Casey to crack, I know it is not likely, but maybe somewhere in his head he thought that. Have some sympathy for him.

I like that idea NRCG.  But if that were the case, wouldn't he have implicated her in the suicide letter, or at least questioned whether or not she was involved.  He seemed to have done everything but that.

[Hudsunn]

The main sticking point for the public and the jury, IMO, is that Casey did not report the child was missing and in fact, probably never would have reported it.  The only reason we know that Caylee is missing and dead is because Cindy called 911.  Casey did not do that and did not want Cindy to do it, either. 

I don't see how Baez can blame the murder on anyone else because Casey herself said that Zanny took the child, and since Zanny does not exist, it is Casey who lied about that vital information concerning the child's disappearance.

In order to "blame" the murder on someone else, he would have to establish that the person got so angry at Casey that he/she kidnapped and killed the child. 

How can he say that any of the friends did it when Casey remained friends with them all, even living with Tony AFTER Caylee disappeared. 

No, that would not work.  I don't think that Jesse, Tony, Amy or any of the other friends would be suitable as "possible suspects" since all have been interviewed by the cops, Jesse and perhaps some others took polygraph tests, some had alibis I am sure and all were on friendly terms with Casey up until she was arrested.

IMO, Baez can go two ways in defending Casey and two ways only :

  1.  ABUSE EXCUSE --  Casey was traumatized by the fact that her father or brother or some stranger raped her and therefore she associated Caylee with the rape and in her mind, if she could get rid of Caylee, she could get rid of the stigma and trauma of the rape.

      George's suicide attempt plays into this defense.  Baez could say that George attempted suicide because he knew the fact of his molestation of Casey and/or fathering of Caylee was going to come out in the National Enquirer.  He could say that George felt tremendous guilt and shame and did not want to face the public condemnation and perhaps the criminal charges that would result. 

      He could paint Casey as a kind of martry, a traumatized girl who did not want to let the dirty family secrets come out and who still tried to protect her family even after she had been abused within the family.  It would not get her off completely but it might result in a sympathetic jury who would give her a light sentence.

   
 2.  CASEY FEARED HER MOTHER AND DID NOT WANT HER MOTHER TO RAISE CAYLEE --  When her mother threatened to take Caylee for good, Casey went into some sort of emotional state that made her feel Caylee would be better off dead and that she (Casey) could never be free of her mom without also being free of Caylee.

      I don't think it would be hard to show that Cindy was a domineering mother who ruled Casey's life and who wanted Caylee for herself. 

One thing is certain:  The incest rumor that has flown around the internet is now out in the National Enquirer.  It will be interesting to see what Cindy, George and Lee do about that.  Will they finally vehemently deny these rumors or will they say little or nothing about them?  Will they threaten to sue? 

     The National Enquirer has not claimed that those things happened, just that some people SAID Casey told them that she had been abused sexually by either George or Lee or had been raped by someone.  I doubt the NE can be sued for printing that.

    But what the Anthonys and Baez and Casey herself say now will give us a good sense of where they are going.

   1.  Will Lee and George step forward to say that they never in any way sexually abused Casey?  Will they ask their lawyers to categorically deny the claims that Casey made to Tony and others?  Or will they remain silent or be lukewarm in their denials?

   2.  Will Casey herself or Baez issue denials that she ever made these statements?  Will Casey go out of her way to say that her father and brother never abused her?  Or will they just let those accusations float out there in the public?

[no rose colored glasses]

This admission to the Psych unit is not going to get GA a disability check. First, I'm sure the primary diagnosis is depression.....lots of modifiers to that diagnosis; with or without psychosis, etc., but the onset was clearly circumstantial. That's going to be in the record.

That's a very treatable diagnosis, with a good outcome prognosis and by nature and statistics, when the circumstances are lessened, so is the depression, particularly if there is treatment intervention. The Social Security Administration keeps up with this stuff, and there's no way this is going to give GA a disability check. It simply cannot be demonstrated that this is a chronic, untreatable condition for George.

And one thing I'm wondering if George might have done this for Casey to crack, I know it is not likely, but maybe somewhere in his head he thought that. Have some sympathy for him.

I like that idea NRCG.  But if that were the case, wouldn't he have implicated her in the suicide letter, or at least questioned whether or not she was involved.  He seemed to have done everything but that.

I know I'm grasping at straws, I still wonder if that visit btw George and Casey would have happened, would there have been resolution. I guess we will never no.

[Searching]

Hi Monkeys.. I see a lot of talk of Caylee being a product of rape. 1, with KC being well,um,very active, I just do not buy it. second, let me tell you monkeys a story..

There is a very beautiful lady with a college education, married,owns her own home and has 2 beautiful daughters.She is in her 20's now. She is a great person,loving mother and very strong woman, She was also born to a 14 year old girl,she was the product of rape, She is also my daughter and I love her more then life itself. I have always loved her,even while carrying her. There was not 1 day,not 1 second she was ever looked at as a bad choice,a bad day, a bad time a bad result. She has been loved by everyone in my family since day one,including me.

This is why I do not buy into the excuse of rape being a motive.. sorry Monkeys,but I kept seeing that and it was starting to bother me.back to lurking I go

[Ono]

I just can't imagine any reason for a "legit" suicide note to be made public.    Doesn't make sense to me.   Unless the note was a scam.   

Has it been made public?  I had not seen that yet.  All I have seen so far is that George is to stay in the hospital until Monday.  Where can I find the note or info on the note itself?  I thought that not even Conway had seen the note....I am out of the loop.

No. Last night Geraldo - as a teaser for his show - said something about having the suicide note to show.   But, Conway was on his show last night - and Geraldo asked him if he had the note, and Conway said "no". 

I personally don't want to know everything George put in the note.  I think it is just way too personal and I hope they don't release it to the public.   And, I truly hope George gets the help he needs.

Geraldo is a disgrace.  If he though he could 'up' his ratings he would walk down Fifth Avenue stark naked.   

[Steel Monkey]

The main sticking point for the public and the jury, IMO, is that Casey did not report the child was missing and in fact, probably never would have reported it.  The only reason we know that Caylee is missing and dead is because Cindy called 911.  Casey did not do that and did not want Cindy to do it, either. 

I don't see how Baez can blame the murder on anyone else because Casey herself said that Zanny took the child, and since Zanny does not exist, it is Casey who lied about that vital information concerning the child's disappearance.

In order to "blame" the murder on someone else, he would have to establish that the person got so angry at Casey that he/she kidnapped and killed the child. 

How can he say that any of the friends did it when Casey remained friends with them all, even living with Tony AFTER Caylee disappeared. 

No, that would not work.  I don't think that Jesse, Tony, Amy or any of the other friends would be suitable as "possible suspects" since all have been interviewed by the cops, Jesse and perhaps some others took polygraph tests, some had alibis I am sure and all were on friendly terms with Casey up until she was arrested.

IMO, Baez can go two ways in defending Casey and two ways only :

  1.  ABUSE EXCUSE --  Casey was traumatized by the fact that her father or brother or some stranger raped her and therefore she associated Caylee with the rape and in her mind, if she could get rid of Caylee, she could get rid of the stigma and trauma of the rape.

      George's suicide attempt plays into this defense.  Baez could say that George attempted suicide because he knew the fact of his molestation of Casey and/or fathering of Caylee was going to come out in the National Enquirer.  He could say that George felt tremendous guilt and shame and did not want to face the public condemnation and perhaps the criminal charges that would result. 

      He could paint Casey as a kind of martry, a traumatized girl who did not want to let the dirty family secrets come out and who still tried to protect her family even after she had been abused within the family.  It would not get her off completely but it might result in a sympathetic jury who would give her a light sentence.

   
 2.  CASEY FEARED HER MOTHER AND DID NOT WANT HER MOTHER TO RAISE CAYLEE --  When her mother threatened to take Caylee for good, Casey went into some sort of emotional state that made her feel Caylee would be better off dead and that she (Casey) could never be free of her mom without also being free of Caylee.

      I don't think it would be hard to show that Cindy was a domineering mother who ruled Casey's life and who wanted Caylee for herself. 

One thing is certain:  The incest rumor that has flown around the internet is now out in the National Enquirer.  It will be interesting to see what Cindy, George and Lee do about that.  Will they finally vehemently deny these rumors or will they say little or nothing about them?  Will they threaten to sue? 

     The National Enquirer has not claimed that those things happened, just that some people SAID Casey told them that she had been abused sexually by either George or Lee or had been raped by someone.  I doubt the NE can be sued for printing that.

    But what the Anthonys and Baez and Casey herself say now will give us a good sense of where they are going.

   1.  Will Lee and George step forward to say that they never in any way sexually abused Casey?  Will they ask their lawyers to categorically deny the claims that Casey made to Tony and others?  Or will they remain silent or be lukewarm in their denials?

   2.  Will Casey herself or Baez issue denials that she ever made these statements?  Will Casey go out of her way to say that her father and brother never abused her?  Or will they just let those accusations float out there in the public?

Wonderful, thought provoking post as usual Hudsunn.

In order for either of those defenses to work, KC will have to admit killing her daughter.  Do you think that she would be willing to do this?  Even if Baez says it's the only way, I find it hard for her to roll over after all of this time.

I am particularly impressed with your thoughts on the National Enquire story.  Exactly how the family responds (and they have to respond now that it is off the net, and out in "the main stream media").  Baez and Conway are going to have to get together to decide how to "spin" this one.

[Kat_Gram]

They won't even respond to that claptrap in the NE.
What ppl said is in their police statements. The NE is just a TMZ kind of blog printed out for sale.

[flamom]

This admission to the Psych unit is not going to get GA a disability check. First, I'm sure the primary diagnosis is depression.....lots of modifiers to that diagnosis; with or without psychosis, etc., but the onset was clearly circumstantial. That's going to be in the record.

That's a very treatable diagnosis, with a good outcome prognosis and by nature and statistics, when the circumstances are lessened, so is the depression, particularly if there is treatment intervention. The Social Security Administration keeps up with this stuff, and there's no way this is going to give GA a disability check. It simply cannot be demonstrated that this is a chronic, untreatable condition for George.

I respectfully disagree with you. There may be other events in George's past that may be entered into his current record by a psychiatrist who records his history. What the doctor documents is vital to the outcome of a person's claim. It seems to me that he can very well claim a long history of depression based on health, injury, family and self esteem issues. While there are certainly extrinsic causes of his depression, we do not know the intrinsic factors...and the family history

[crazybabyborg]

The main sticking point for the public and the jury, IMO, is that Casey did not report the child was missing and in fact, probably never would have reported it.  The only reason we know that Caylee is missing and dead is because Cindy called 911.  Casey did not do that and did not want Cindy to do it, either. 

I don't see how Baez can blame the murder on anyone else because Casey herself said that Zanny took the child, and since Zanny does not exist, it is Casey who lied about that vital information concerning the child's disappearance.
In order to "blame" the murder on someone else, he would have to establish that the person got so angry at Casey that he/she kidnapped and killed the child. 

How can he say that any of the friends did it when Casey remained friends with them all, even living with Tony AFTER Caylee disappeared. 

No, that would not work.  I don't think that Jesse, Tony, Amy or any of the other friends would be suitable as "possible suspects" since all have been interviewed by the cops, Jesse and perhaps some others took polygraph tests, some had alibis I am sure and all were on friendly terms with Casey up until she was arrested.

IMO, Baez can go two ways in defending Casey and two ways only :

  1.  ABUSE EXCUSE --  Casey was traumatized by the fact that her father or brother or some stranger raped her and therefore she associated Caylee with the rape and in her mind, if she could get rid of Caylee, she could get rid of the stigma and trauma of the rape.

      George's suicide attempt plays into this defense.  Baez could say that George attempted suicide because he knew the fact of his molestation of Casey and/or fathering of Caylee was going to come out in the National Enquirer.  He could say that George felt tremendous guilt and shame and did not want to face the public condemnation and perhaps the criminal charges that would result. 

      He could paint Casey as a kind of martry, a traumatized girl who did not want to let the dirty family secrets come out and who still tried to protect her family even after she had been abused within the family.  It would not get her off completely but it might result in a sympathetic jury who would give her a light sentence.

That also answers one of the hardest questions the defense will have to answer: Why didn't you tell at least your family and go to them for help?
   
 2.  CASEY FEARED HER MOTHER AND DID NOT WANT HER MOTHER TO RAISE CAYLEE --  When her mother threatened to take Caylee for good, Casey went into some sort of emotional state that made her feel Caylee would be better off dead and that she (Casey) could never be free of her mom without also being free of Caylee.

      I don't think it would be hard to show that Cindy was a domineering mother who ruled Casey's life and who wanted Caylee for herself. 

One thing is certain:  The incest rumor that has flown around the internet is now out in the National Enquirer.  It will be interesting to see what Cindy, George and Lee do about that.  Will they finally vehemently deny these rumors or will they say little or nothing about them?  Will they threaten to sue? 

     The National Enquirer has not claimed that those things happened, just that some people SAID Casey told them that she had been abused sexually by either George or Lee or had been raped by someone.  I doubt the NE can be sued for printing that.

    But what the Anthonys and Baez and Casey herself say now will give us a good sense of where they are going.

   1.  Will Lee and George step forward to say that they never in any way sexually abused Casey?  Will they ask their lawyers to categorically deny the claims that Casey made to Tony and others?  Or will they remain silent or be lukewarm in their denials?

   2.  Will Casey herself or Baez issue denials that she ever made these statements?  Will Casey go out of her way to say that her father and brother never abused her?  Or will they just let those accusations float out there in the public?

This is where the immunity being sought comes into play. If the family is willing to allow themselves to be painted in a horrible light, and even be willing to shift suspicion on themselves, while under protection of immunity, then Casey's defense has a little room they do not now have.

My comments in red. Good post, Hudsunn!

[Hudsunn]

Searching, your personal story is a lovely one and speaks to your own courage, emotional stability, and capacity to love.  Not everyone has those character traits.  Imagine if you had been a selfish, emotionally immature person without the capacity to love a child as fully as you did.  Many women cannot get over a rape, whether or not it produces a child.  Even people who appose abortion often say that they favor it in cases of rape.  Your situation is inspiring and unique, but it may not apply to everyone who goes through that situation.

I do not automatically accept that Casey was ever raped just because she said it.  She is a chronic liar and nothing she says can be fully trusted or believed.  Nor do I automatically accept that either Lee or George molested her.  Those are her claims, and they may be totally untrue.

But Baez might go in that direction as part of a defense.  His avenues of defense are very limited, as far as we know, so he may try the traumatization or abuse excuses.

[no rose colored glasses]

Hudsunn.. You brought up some great points, and the questions at the end of your post, are very interesting. So far Lee has not commented about abuse towards Casey, and those docs have been out for awhile, so I will figure his attorney has told Lee not to comment, and he at least knows how to follow advice. If these accusations are false, how awful for Lee, I don't like the guy at all, I don't trust him, but I also don't like accusations of that nature thrown at somebody, and he can't fight back if his lawyer has told him not to.