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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #796 1/27/09 - 1/30/09  (Read 219673 times)
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Ree
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« Reply #620 on: January 29, 2009, 06:39:48 PM »

Klass, I have to leave early this evening and not sure if I'll be back today.  You can provide my email to Jen if she takes us up on our offer.
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snoopy
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« Reply #621 on: January 29, 2009, 06:41:22 PM »

Keepthefaith is a boy monkey?  Well hells bells.  How did I miss that.  Howdy monkeys.  Yes I'm way way behind.  And by time I catch ya'll be gone to bed.  Haha. 

Howdy snoopy!  Yes KTF shocked some of us, but not Magnolia...she had him figured out! 

Nothing gets past our sweet Magnolia.  Nothing.

Howdy ya'll.  And yes I'm way behind again.  lol
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Anna
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« Reply #622 on: January 29, 2009, 06:42:03 PM »

I think a lot to this is Following Schaeffer and the money,UnderwaterExpeditions and Trahan,Silvetti and those GeoLab companies,as well as where Kyle is working?I truly believe if we can pinpoint that as well as some of the business relationships it will come together.How to do that is the question.I think you have to let those Traitors continue to play there hands in terms of looking for the big payday of OIL contracts.It will happen!

My opinion:
I think Kyle entered with a honest heart. I think he got a little side tracked, but still thought he was "on the good side". It wasn't until about late Spring - early Summer when his financial responsibilities started to rely back on those he is "protecting" now. It's sad.

Yes, we all looked forward so to his posts.  He does have a flair for writing, almost lyrical.  And we were so grateful for anyone doing anything to help this family.  All the other stuff I didn't even notice until Private Eye posted that and even then didn't understand what I was reading.

I am sorry this happened because Kyle is very young.  He may have been caught talking about his boss in a way he quickly came to regret.  We have all done that at one time or another, just never, ever put it in writing, lol!

They already have worked for Dutch corps so did that come about as a result of their mapping?  Would be hard to say or know as it is a very small and esoteric line of work.  But for sure, they will be encountering Dutch oil companies throughout the world and for a very long time.

Guess it's not a smart thing to do to be dissing the potential client.  Also about that donation from AHATA, now I wonder how much exactly that would involve?  Was it in exchange for anything?  Like maybe allowing only ALE to have access to the contents of the trap?

So many questions, no way to answer them.

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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

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wreck
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« Reply #623 on: January 29, 2009, 06:42:34 PM »

Has Greta said ANYTHING about Natalee since the week she was supposedly going there?? Did she completely abandon the "sold into slavery" angle? She went from 100mph to 0 overnight! 
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Tibrogargan
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« Reply #624 on: January 29, 2009, 06:43:21 PM »

A-1, I hope I don't offend you but I agree with Janet.  I don't understand how anyone can be a member at C&G which bashes SM, Klaas, and other monkeys and then come here and post.  In other words, for me at least, I could not be a member at both places becuase I could not stand by and condone the bashing of SM.

MOO


KYcat - just to clarify - the front forum appeared somewhat normal for a long time.  It has only been in the past few weeks, probably coinciding with the nasty drive by posts they have been making, that the hatred of SM spilled out into the front forum and it became increasingly obvious that all members had to toe their line or be deleted.  Of course it was never clearly stated to anyone - in fact in my case it was denied more than once - that they were gathered there solely to discredit SM and Klaas.

I don't have inside information or fully understand how all this happened, but I just had to say that the concept of a site existing for the sole purpose of discrediting Scared Monkeys and the selfless hours put in by Klaas, is a pretty damning commentary about the participants there.

I'll hold up the objectives of this forum and particularly this thread to the light of day, anytime, anywhere, and to anyone.

We stand with the girl, and her family. We stand against the corruption and evil that both brought her life to an end, and have been at work to obscure the truth regarding it. It's ALL about Natalee!

I want no part of any entity that has formed against those principles at Scared Monkeys.

One is based in compassion, and the other is based in contempt. I know which is stronger, and I'm honored to stand with you all in that place of strength.


CBB the original invitation that we received from someone we had considered a friend of SM and ourselves stated that it was to be a forum investigating and supporting Natalee's case, with additonal contacts giving more information.  Janet's comment that it resembled a cult is the most accurate description.

Because the forum owner left another site after being unable to gain access to their particular hidey hole it was stated more than once that this owner would not allow any hidden areas on her forum.  All members would have access to all areas.  Those of us that joined at our friend's invitation did so to support her in her new venture rather than the forum.  Everything changed after another ex-monkey demanded and was given complete control of a hidey hole and who would be permitted to access it. After a while it became obvious to most of us that there had to be a secret area as the post count for a lot of the members grew at an amazing rate when they posted very little in the front forum.  I questioned our friend several times about this and she always denied any other area.  Since then this friend has become so different in her attitude to many of us and all I can assume is that she has decided to follow the herd rather than lose her status as a co-owner of a forum.

It is also distressing to me to see so many people I did consider to be internet friends be swayed by a small group of trouble makers who have upset more than one forum in the recent past.  A lot of you would be shocked at who are members there (Janet would need a tablet and a lie-down) and which of those work behind the scenes instigating the nasty posts that their flunkies carry over here and post on their behalf. 

I am proud to no longer be associated with any of them.
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jen3560
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« Reply #625 on: January 29, 2009, 06:49:10 PM »

So, Freebirds are no more.  Monkey's can act like birds.  What can we do as a group to do something like the Freebirds would have done?  I can volunteer some time, if somebody wants to be the leader.

Well let me tell you what the Freebird's plan was for this information:

We assimilated the information
We created a document containing it - only the facts as they were presented to us, followed by a list of questions at the bottom
We were then going to

a - post it at our blog
b - Send it to SM for posting 
c - Send it to the BOYCOTT ARUBA site for posting
d - send it to ALL media outlets (including Endemol - DeVries in the NL)

... and the understanding was that Kyle Kingsman would first share the document with Beth Holloway and the FBI.

Do I have that right jen?

Janet

Close.  The understanding was that Kyle had ALREADY shared this with Beth and the FBI.  Which turned out not to be the case.
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #626 on: January 29, 2009, 06:49:47 PM »

Has Greta said ANYTHING about Natalee since the week she was supposedly going there?? Did she completely abandon the "sold into slavery" angle? She went from 100mph to 0 overnight! 

I've wondered that for some time now.I went flyin out the front window the stop was so abrupt. Still pondering those Tj Ward tapes,Antonio Carlo & Paulus,as well as The Mansur's..What and when did they know it is my question.
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« Reply #627 on: January 29, 2009, 06:50:19 PM »

Klass, I have to leave early this evening and not sure if I'll be back today.  You can provide my email to Jen if she takes us up on our offer.

Sure Ree
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« Reply #628 on: January 29, 2009, 06:51:23 PM »

Has Greta said ANYTHING about Natalee since the week she was supposedly going there?? Did she completely abandon the "sold into slavery" angle? She went from 100mph to 0 overnight! 

Yep and what happened to JQK meeting with Brinkman and MOS the first part of January? 
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Seamonkey
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« Reply #629 on: January 29, 2009, 06:52:01 PM »

A-1, I hope I don't offend you but I agree with Janet.  I don't understand how anyone can be a member at C&G which bashes SM, Klaas, and other monkeys and then come here and post.  In other words, for me at least, I could not be a member at both places becuase I could not stand by and condone the bashing of SM.

MOO


KYcat - just to clarify - the front forum appeared somewhat normal for a long time.  It has only been in the past few weeks, probably coinciding with the nasty drive by posts they have been making, that the hatred of SM spilled out into the front forum and it became increasingly obvious that all members had to toe their line or be deleted.  Of course it was never clearly stated to anyone - in fact in my case it was denied more than once - that they were gathered there solely to discredit SM and Klaas.

I don't have inside information or fully understand how all this happened, but I just had to say that the concept of a site existing for the sole purpose of discrediting Scared Monkeys and the selfless hours put in by Klaas, is a pretty damning commentary about the participants there.

I'll hold up the objectives of this forum and particularly this thread to the light of day, anytime, anywhere, and to anyone.

We stand with the girl, and her family. We stand against the corruption and evil that both brought her life to an end, and have been at work to obscure the truth regarding it. It's ALL about Natalee!

I want no part of any entity that has formed against those principles at Scared Monkeys.

One is based in compassion, and the other is based in contempt. I know which is stronger, and I'm honored to stand with you all in that place of strength.


CBB the original invitation that we received from someone we had considered a friend of SM and ourselves stated that it was to be a forum investigating and supporting Natalee's case, with additonal contacts giving more information.  Janet's comment that it resembled a cult is the most accurate description.

Because the forum owner left another site after being unable to gain access to their particular hidey hole it was stated more than once that this owner would not allow any hidden areas on her forum.  All members would have access to all areas.  Those of us that joined at our friend's invitation did so to support her in her new venture rather than the forum.  Everything changed after another ex-monkey demanded and was given complete control of a hidey hole and who would be permitted to access it. After a while it became obvious to most of us that there had to be a secret area as the post count for a lot of the members grew at an amazing rate when they posted very little in the front forum.  I questioned our friend several times about this and she always denied any other area.  Since then this friend has become so different in her attitude to many of us and all I can assume is that she has decided to follow the herd rather than lose her status as a co-owner of a forum.

It is also distressing to me to see so many people I did consider to be internet friends be swayed by a small group of trouble makers who have upset more than one forum in the recent past.  A lot of you would be shocked at who are members there (Janet would need a tablet and a lie-down) and which of those work behind the scenes instigating the nasty posts that their flunkies carry over here and post on their behalf. 

I am proud to no longer be associated with any of them.


  Hiya tib, so true all of it.. Smile
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #630 on: January 29, 2009, 06:54:19 PM »

Has Greta said ANYTHING about Natalee since the week she was supposedly going there?? Did she completely abandon the "sold into slavery" angle? She went from 100mph to 0 overnight! 

Yep and what happened to JQK meeting with Brinkman and MOS the first part of January? 

Kermit said that Brinkman didn't leave empty-handed!FWIW
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ospainter
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« Reply #631 on: January 29, 2009, 06:54:28 PM »

A-1, I hope I don't offend you but I agree with Janet.  I don't understand how anyone can be a member at C&G which bashes SM, Klaas, and other monkeys and then come here and post.  In other words, for me at least, I could not be a member at both places becuase I could not stand by and condone the bashing of SM.

MOO


KYcat - just to clarify - the front forum appeared somewhat normal for a long time.  It has only been in the past few weeks, probably coinciding with the nasty drive by posts they have been making, that the hatred of SM spilled out into the front forum and it became increasingly obvious that all members had to toe their line or be deleted.  Of course it was never clearly stated to anyone - in fact in my case it was denied more than once - that they were gathered there solely to discredit SM and Klaas.

I don't have inside information or fully understand how all this happened, but I just had to say that the concept of a site existing for the sole purpose of discrediting Scared Monkeys and the selfless hours put in by Klaas, is a pretty damning commentary about the participants there.

I'll hold up the objectives of this forum and particularly this thread to the light of day, anytime, anywhere, and to anyone.

We stand with the girl, and her family. We stand against the corruption and evil that both brought her life to an end, and have been at work to obscure the truth regarding it. It's ALL about Natalee!

I want no part of any entity that has formed against those principles at Scared Monkeys.

One is based in compassion, and the other is based in contempt. I know which is stronger, and I'm honored to stand with you all in that place of strength.


CBB the original invitation that we received from someone we had considered a friend of SM and ourselves stated that it was to be a forum investigating and supporting Natalee's case, with additonal contacts giving more information.  Janet's comment that it resembled a cult is the most accurate description.

Because the forum owner left another site after being unable to gain access to their particular hidey hole it was stated more than once that this owner would not allow any hidden areas on her forum.  All members would have access to all areas.  Those of us that joined at our friend's invitation did so to support her in her new venture rather than the forum.  Everything changed after another ex-monkey demanded and was given complete control of a hidey hole and who would be permitted to access it. After a while it became obvious to most of us that there had to be a secret area as the post count for a lot of the members grew at an amazing rate when they posted very little in the front forum.  I questioned our friend several times about this and she always denied any other area.  Since then this friend has become so different in her attitude to many of us and all I can assume is that she has decided to follow the herd rather than lose her status as a co-owner of a forum.

It is also distressing to me to see so many people I did consider to be internet friends be swayed by a small group of trouble makers who have upset more than one forum in the recent past.  A lot of you would be shocked at who are members there (Janet would need a tablet and a lie-down) and which of those work behind the scenes instigating the nasty posts that their flunkies carry over here and post on their behalf. 

I am proud to no longer be associated with any of them.


Tib

And those flunkies don't realize those sending them here don't even like them..Remember???????????????
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jen3560
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« Reply #632 on: January 29, 2009, 06:54:56 PM »

So, Freebirds are no more.  Monkey's can act like birds.  What can we do as a group to do something like the Freebirds would have done?  I can volunteer some time, if somebody wants to be the leader.

Well let me tell you what the Freebird's plan was for this information:

We assimilated the information
We created a document containing it - only the facts as they were presented to us, followed by a list of questions at the bottom
We were then going to

a - post it at our blog
b - Send it to SM for posting 
c - Send it to the BOYCOTT ARUBA site for posting
d - send it to ALL media outlets (including Endemol - DeVries in the NL)

I in with ya. Just a question.  What is the legal ramifications doing this here on SM versus what the Freebirds were doing on their site?


Is it even still possible to make a formal compilation with the threat of  legal action?  What did the Freebird attorney say about this?



This is a good question.  I would have to defer to the Owner(s) of this site to make a judgement call regarding what, if anything, SM wants to do with it.

Freebirds would have prevailed in any civil litigation brought forth, but the expense of litigating was the problem.

Our TOS read similar to those here, and it was mostly our TOS that would have put us in the position to prevail.
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Seamonkey
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« Reply #633 on: January 29, 2009, 06:56:26 PM »

Yes os, lol and wonder what they will think now ??? 
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jen3560
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« Reply #634 on: January 29, 2009, 06:58:59 PM »

So, Freebirds are no more.  Monkey's can act like birds.  What can we do as a group to do something like the Freebirds would have done?  I can volunteer some time, if somebody wants to be the leader.

Well let me tell you what the Freebird's plan was for this information:

We assimilated the information
We created a document containing it - only the facts as they were presented to us, followed by a list of questions at the bottom
We were then going to

a - post it at our blog
b - Send it to SM for posting 
c - Send it to the BOYCOTT ARUBA site for posting
d - send it to ALL media outlets (including Endemol - DeVries in the NL)

I in with ya. Just a question.  What is the legal ramifications doing this here on SM versus what the Freebirds were doing on their site?


Is it even still possible to make a formal compilation with the threat of  legal action?  What did the Freebird attorney say about this?



I don't see how it could be an issue.  Kyle has no binding agreement of privacy with SM.  Jen didn't come here and suggest we become Freebirds.  I asked a former Frebird what we could do to keep their spirit alive.  Kyle's posts have already been outted.

Jen, would you be interested in being our fearless leader, becuase I think Klass has a full plate being our herder.

I personally think (without consulting counsel) that any former Freebird who would participate in putting something "official" forward could give actionable cause to Kyle.  Simply because of the originating circumstances.

But your point about SM and a lack of binding agreement with Kyle is a good one.......
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Blue Moon
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« Reply #635 on: January 29, 2009, 06:59:36 PM »

Has Greta said ANYTHING about Natalee since the week she was supposedly going there?? Did she completely abandon the "sold into slavery" angle? She went from 100mph to 0 overnight! 

Yep and what happened to JQK meeting with Brinkman and MOS the first part of January? 

Did we ever find out if in fact JQK and Mark Fuhrman were in Aruba.  I thought it was only reported by "Glenda" which doesn't make it true at all.
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Tibrogargan
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« Reply #636 on: January 29, 2009, 07:00:06 PM »

Yes os, lol and wonder what they will think now ??? 

Hi Seamonkey - I think you do not have to like someone to use them - just let them think you like them.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #637 on: January 29, 2009, 07:01:11 PM »

I think a lot to this is Following Schaeffer and the money,UnderwaterExpeditions and Trahan,Silvetti and those GeoLab companies,as well as where Kyle is working?I truly believe if we can pinpoint that as well as some of the business relationships it will come together.How to do that is the question.I think you have to let those Traitors continue to play there hands in terms of looking for the big payday of OIL contracts.It will happen!

My opinion:
I think Kyle entered with a honest heart. I think he got a little side tracked, but still thought he was "on the good side". It wasn't until about late Spring - early Summer when his financial responsibilities started to rely back on those he is "protecting" now. It's sad.

To some extent I agree with you Wreck.

I believe that sometime between the discovery of the cage and the December 30th dive that ALE become actively involved and ... John Silvetti was provided with an incentive to take a back seat ... look the other way as far as being a participant in the recovery efforts.

However ... Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller became problems.  They had both seen the ROV images and ... Kyle Kingman whose professional expertise encompasses analysing ROV images determined Natalee Holloway remains could possibly be in that cage/trap.

Also ... the lack of a chain of custody was very troubling to Kyle Kingman.  His original intentions were to to share his concerns regarding the happenings encompassing the recovery with Beth Holloway and the FBI upon returning home.

Kyle approached the Natalee's Freebirds for assistance in compiling a document that could be submitted to Beth Holloway and the FBI but ... somewhere along the line he had a change of heart.  Beth Holloway took a back seat and ... network negotiations with Louis Shaefer (ROV copyright) and Tim Trahan (diver) was where it was at.

It is my understanding that at some point in time the the Natalee's Freebirds' made the decision to send the compiled information to Beth Holloway, the FBI and John Kelly.  The Natalee's Freebirds were threatened with legal actions.  This is when Kermit made the decision to leave the coop and ... with the permission of Beth Holloway ... took the risk and exposed Kyle Kingman's own words and the ROV images on the Natalee Holloway forum at the SM site.

Consider copyright issue and network negotiations encompassing the ROV images ... I believe that exposure any further that the SM site would certainly result in legal litagation.

My prayer is the Beth Holloway, John Kelly and the FBI are working behind the scenes in regards to the what was recovered from the cage/trap by the enemy ... the enemy who has denied Natalee Holloway justice since the getgo.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGSMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »


We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care. Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing. Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857;topicseen#msg366857


PRIVATE EYE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »


If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


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jen3560
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« Reply #638 on: January 29, 2009, 07:01:11 PM »



Thanks Ree.  Better safe than sorry.

Another question.  The person who was against outing Kyle at Freebirds---are they now at CnG's famous site?

Yes.  And I've recently learned he/she was a member there before he/she left Freebirds.
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jen3560
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« Reply #639 on: January 29, 2009, 07:04:30 PM »


My opinion:
I think Kyle entered with a honest heart. I think he got a little side tracked, but still thought he was "on the good side". It wasn't until about late Spring - early mid Summer when his financial responsibilities started to rely back on those he is "protecting" now. It's sad.

I think this is 100% correct.  Though it may not have solely been financial responsibilities
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