Natalee Case Discussion #796 1/27/09 - 1/30/09

[Tamikosmom]

I think the Faith part, Janet.  It took me a while....

Thanks you 2NJSons_Mom

Janet

[2NJSons_Mom]

Don't be hard on yourself, Blue Moon.  You have popcorn.   

[ospainter]

From: LEAK  Thu Mar 06, 2008
hiya Caps emailed Dave & he didn't understand what he was trying to say. Lala's Mom then emailed Dave & explained what Caps was trying to say. Dave emailed her back & the next thing we know they got permission to search Monserat pond based on Caps & a witness he had found. The witness contacted Helen Lejuez & then she contacted ALE for him. He (the witness) has given a statement & this is why the search was granted. I know they used side scan sonar & were waiting for Kyle (or someone) to look at the pics. Caps told lala's they were going to drain Monserat pond for further searching. Will let you know what I find out.
I do not trust Faith, Blonde or Hotshot any further than I can throw them.
Lala's has warned Caps about Hotshot so he won't tell her anything. LOL


Leak said:Clyde Burke is Caps friend & who some of us felt may be Simian.
I can't answer all the questions about Caps cause I just don't know. He does not email with me but he does with Lalas.

LEAK: "Tue Mar 18, 2008
Here is a portion of a Capslock email:
I have spoken to John and he is in contact with MOS. but with the Government on strike, nobody is working. Polis department
has minimum service now just to maintain tranquility on the island.


LEAK: " I have access to a witness statement from this "pond witness". Sure seems from what I see that what he said & what is being translated on some boards are very different."


LEAK: "Caps knows a few ALE
I know he knows Clyde Burke.

John stayed and kept an eye on the side with the ALE till before the strike begin. 2 days the before venezuala crisis, John and some one scanned the pond.

Lala's is not refering to me is she Kermit??

Keepthefaith ... what part of Kermit's post causes you to think mybe Lala is refering to you.

Janet

Oh I get it.

Keepthefaith ... the "Faith" that Lala is referring to is a girl Monkey.

Janet

Isn't that the "leak" saying that about Faith and not Lalas?? or am I reading it wrong..

[2NJSons_Mom]

Klaas,

Has SIGuido registered here, yet?   

[2NJSons_Mom]

OS,

I understood LEAK said it to Lala's.

[jen3560]

Here is something to think long and hard about.

If it required Helen LeJuez to make contact with ALE on behalf of the witness, yet Caps is friends with Clyde Burke.......

Well.  What does that tell you about Clyde Burke's role in this, and therefore Caps' trustworthiness?  Especially in light of the fact that Caps himself made allusions to it being Clyde Burke that helped him understand the Shango/Simian stuff?

If Clyde Burke (and therefore Caps) was on the up and up................why did Helen LeJuez have to make contact with ALE after having spoken to this witness?

After all, this witness was brought to her by Caps (and John Silvetti, don't forget), who is friends with Clyde Burke, with whom Caps had obviously been discussing things with (ie, his post re Shango/Simian).

Wouldn't the logical sequence of events have been for Caps to take this witness directly to Clyde Burke?  Why the subterfuge of having the attorney contact ALE on behalf of the witness??

From: LEAK  Thu Mar 06, 2008
hiya Caps emailed Dave & he didn't understand what he was trying to say. Lala's Mom then emailed Dave & explained what Caps was trying to say. Dave emailed her back & the next thing we know they got permission to search Monserat pond based on Caps & a witness he had found. The witness contacted Helen Lejuez & then she contacted ALE for him. He (the witness) has given a statement & this is why the search was granted. I know they used side scan sonar & were waiting for Kyle (or someone) to look at the pics. Caps told lala's they were going to drain Monserat pond for further searching. Will let you know what I find out.
 

[Blue Moon]

Wreck, I tend to agree with you.  I have read here from the beginning and I believe some have gotten in over their heads with all this BECAUSE they do want Justice for Natalee.  It is still not an excuse for the bashing of SM and Klaas or Kermit or Janet (and I could go on and on).

[Seamonkey]

I wonder why this "leak " is so highly protected no one can know the name..enough is bein said of this "leak" certainly it has another name people are more familiar with...not a real name even..but a user name..whats the big secret in this person's identity at this point?

[ospainter]

OS,

I understood LEAK said it to Lala's.

ty

OS

[2NJSons_Mom]

Here is something to think long and hard about.

If it required Helen LeJuez to make contact with ALE on behalf of the witness, yet Caps is friends with Clyde Burke.......

Well.  What does that tell you about Clyde Burke's role in this, and therefore Caps' trustworthiness?  Especially in light of the fact that Caps himself made allusions to it being Clyde Burke that helped him understand the Shango/Simian stuff?

If Clyde Burke (and therefore Caps) was on the up and up................why did Helen LeJuez have to make contact with ALE after having spoken to this witness?

After all, this witness was brought to her by Caps (and John Silvetti, don't forget), who is friends with Clyde Burke, with whom Caps had obviously been discussing things with (ie, his post re Shango/Simian).

Wouldn't the logical sequence of events have been for Caps to take this witness directly to Clyde Burke?  Why the subterfuge of having the attorney contact ALE on behalf of the witness??

From: LEAK  Thu Mar 06, 2008
hiya Caps emailed Dave & he didn't understand what he was trying to say. Lala's Mom then emailed Dave & explained what Caps was trying to say. Dave emailed her back & the next thing we know they got permission to search Monserat pond based on Caps & a witness he had found. The witness contacted Helen Lejuez & then she contacted ALE for him. He (the witness) has given a statement & this is why the search was granted. I know they used side scan sonar & were waiting for Kyle (or someone) to look at the pics. Caps told lala's they were going to drain Monserat pond for further searching. Will let you know what I find out.
 

Wouldn't this offer the witness some sort of counsel and thus cover the story that he was fearful, etc.?  Just thinking about covering of all portions of that storyline.

[wreck]

Wreck, I tend to agree with you.  I have read here from the beginning and I believe some have gotten in over their heads with all this BECAUSE they do want Justice for Natalee.  It is still not an excuse for the bashing of SM and Klaas or Kermit or Janet (and I could go on and on).

Absolutely!

[jen3560]

Here is something to think long and hard about.

If it required Helen LeJuez to make contact with ALE on behalf of the witness, yet Caps is friends with Clyde Burke.......

Well.  What does that tell you about Clyde Burke's role in this, and therefore Caps' trustworthiness?  Especially in light of the fact that Caps himself made allusions to it being Clyde Burke that helped him understand the Shango/Simian stuff?

If Clyde Burke (and therefore Caps) was on the up and up................why did Helen LeJuez have to make contact with ALE after having spoken to this witness?

After all, this witness was brought to her by Caps (and John Silvetti, don't forget), who is friends with Clyde Burke, with whom Caps had obviously been discussing things with (ie, his post re Shango/Simian).

Wouldn't the logical sequence of events have been for Caps to take this witness directly to Clyde Burke?  Why the subterfuge of having the attorney contact ALE on behalf of the witness??

From: LEAK  Thu Mar 06, 2008
hiya Caps emailed Dave & he didn't understand what he was trying to say. Lala's Mom then emailed Dave & explained what Caps was trying to say. Dave emailed her back & the next thing we know they got permission to search Monserat pond based on Caps & a witness he had found. The witness contacted Helen Lejuez & then she contacted ALE for him. He (the witness) has given a statement & this is why the search was granted. I know they used side scan sonar & were waiting for Kyle (or someone) to look at the pics. Caps told lala's they were going to drain Monserat pond for further searching. Will let you know what I find out.
 

Wouldn't this offer the witness some sort of counsel and thus cover the story that he was fearful, etc.?  Just thinking about covering of all portions of that storyline.

Yes - it certainly could.  And that's a good point.

But remember, Caps has an uncle who is an attorney.

An attorney for an uncle, and a friend within ALE.  What more assurance could a witness want?

After all, the witness supposedly approached Caps with his story.....................why Caps?  Of all people? 

Surely that meant this witness felt he was safe telling Caps? 
Surely when the witness mentioned wanting counsel and being fearful - Caps would have assuaged his fears by sharing with him the "in" he had with ALE, and the relative of his who could provide legal advice?

[klaasend]

Klaas,

Has SIGuido registered here, yet?   

  Not under that name but they are a member of SM 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Here is something to think long and hard about.

If it required Helen LeJuez to make contact with ALE on behalf of the witness, yet Caps is friends with Clyde Burke.......

Well.  What does that tell you about Clyde Burke's role in this, and therefore Caps' trustworthiness?  Especially in light of the fact that Caps himself made allusions to it being Clyde Burke that helped him understand the Shango/Simian stuff?

If Clyde Burke (and therefore Caps) was on the up and up................why did Helen LeJuez have to make contact with ALE after having spoken to this witness?

After all, this witness was brought to her by Caps (and John Silvetti, don't forget), who is friends with Clyde Burke, with whom Caps had obviously been discussing things with (ie, his post re Shango/Simian).

Wouldn't the logical sequence of events have been for Caps to take this witness directly to Clyde Burke?  Why the subterfuge of having the attorney contact ALE on behalf of the witness??

From: LEAK  Thu Mar 06, 2008
hiya Caps emailed Dave & he didn't understand what he was trying to say. Lala's Mom then emailed Dave & explained what Caps was trying to say. Dave emailed her back & the next thing we know they got permission to search Monserat pond based on Caps & a witness he had found. The witness contacted Helen Lejuez & then she contacted ALE for him. He (the witness) has given a statement & this is why the search was granted. I know they used side scan sonar & were waiting for Kyle (or someone) to look at the pics. Caps told lala's they were going to drain Monserat pond for further searching. Will let you know what I find out.
 

Wouldn't this offer the witness some sort of counsel and thus cover the story that he was fearful, etc.?  Just thinking about covering of all portions of that storyline.

Yes - it certainly could.  And that's a good point.

But remember, Caps has an uncle who is an attorney.

An attorney for an uncle, and a friend within ALE.  What more assurance could a witness want?

After all, the witness supposedly approached Caps with his story.....................why Caps?  Of all people? 

Surely that meant this witness felt he was safe telling Caps? 
Surely when the witness mentioned wanting counsel and being fearful - Caps would have assuaged his fears by sharing with him the "in" he had with ALE, and the relative of his who could provide legal advice?

I follow you, completely, but was trying to think of this as if it were part of a plan.  Was Dave encouraged to have Lejeuz speak to the witness on his behalf beforehand?   Lejeuz may have been more preferred than Caps' uncle or his friend in ALE. 

Throwing questions out there...shoot them down...it's okay by me. 

[texasmom]

I think you could be right 2NJ.   

[Tamikosmom]

Are you really serious?  These former SM's would be protecting the VanderSloots? I would never have thought that. Guess nothing would shock me though at this point.

I hope kerm doesn't mind me butting into this one.

Of course!!  Who benefits the most by the attempted discrediting of this information?  When that didn't work, the attempted discrediting of the messengers.

This is all much bigger than I thought.  I am shocked.  You really do not know people who post on websites like you think you do.  This misconception must always be remembered by anyone who posts on any website.

For some of them, I don't think that was ever their intention.  I believe they just didn't *think* before they took action.

Being suckered in by someone's song and dance in a "I know but I can't tell" way, along with cryptic messages and "I'm from Aruba" just seems to have gotten in the way of logic and common sense - to the detriment of facts and truth.

I think pride and ego has played a factor for some as well.

I agree, but I think it is more like ALL of them instead of just "some". These are not bad people ( they want justice for Natalee - just like us). I think they have been horribly mislead.

Mislead or not.  They cannot be given a free pass.  Bottom Line:  They are indirectly  participants in John Silvette's betrayal to the family of Natalee Holloway.

I cannot comprehend the mentality.  All those who now upholding John Silvetti, Kyle Kingman or Tim Trahan would be taking an entirely different position if there had been a possibility that their loved one could have been in that trap/cage.  I believe condemnation would be where it was at if ... the opportunity to bring their loved one home may have been forever.

Janet

____

REMINDER:

THE PERSISTENCE DECEPTION - JOHN SILVETTI


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle:  John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle:   He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle:   The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.
 
Kyle:  They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle: Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days. (05/08/08)

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that. (06/10/08)


 

[jen3560]

I follow you, completely, but was trying to think of this as if it were part of a plan.  Was Dave encouraged to have Lejeuz speak to the witness on his behalf beforehand?   Lejeuz may have been more preferred than Caps' uncle or his friend in ALE. 

Throwing questions out there...shoot them down...it's okay by me. 

I'm with you - trust me.  I appreciate the dialogue.

Now, I've heard three different stories about who spoke to this witness on Dave's behalf.  All 3 have come from the cng crew - so take your pick on which one you like best 

1 - Dave asked Tim Miller to speak with this witness for him - not possible, as Tim was no longer on the boat (or Aruba) when this happened

2 - Dave asked Helen Lejuez to speak with this witness for him - possible, but then where does Silvetti fit in, as Kyle told us this guy and his attorney  approached Persistence, and would ONLY speak to Persistence folks - and no family member or ALE knew of this guy at that point.

3 - Hot Shot put this witness in touch with Silvetti  - this story matches what Kyle told us (but remember, he had his attorney at his side for this first time meeting)

And with that, I must leave the cage for the night.

Goodnight monkeys!!

[2NJSons_Mom]

I think you could be right 2NJ.   

Remember, Caps anonymity was of the utmost for his safety.  Why put his uncle in harms way....the bad guys are on that island, as we all know. 

Did I sound like a drive by?     

[Keepthefaith]

I think you could be right 2NJ.   

Remember, Caps anonymity was of the utmost for his safety.  Why put his uncle in harms way....the bad guys are on that island, as we all know. 

Did I sound like a drive by?     

Protect CapsLockWizard from the people that are his friends!Logic doesn't dictate.

[klaasend]

I think you could be right 2NJ.   

Remember, Caps anonymity was of the utmost for his safety.  Why put his uncle in harms way....the bad guys are on that island, as we all know. 

Did I sound like a drive by?