Natalee Case Discussion #796 1/27/09 - 1/30/09

[vms]

Sure email me the link please. 

smklaas@hotmail.com

Sent.

[Magnolia]

vms, I saw you trying to discredit Kermit before he posted
any of the information that Kyle had posted at Freebirds.
Did you draw the short straw today to come and bash
Kermit?
It doesn't change Kyle's words and his failure to act
in Natalee's best interest.

[sharon]

 

 

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT...IT DOES!!!
Justice for Natalee Holloway
Peace for her family and loved ones

[Anna]

goodnight, all.  So good to see so many of our friends. It was just about this time 4 years ago that Natalee was thinking about approaching her mother and daddy about a trip to Aruba and thinking of all the fun she would have.  Such a short time in a lifetime but such a long time in a friendship.

Goodnight, Anna, San, Klaas, None, Art, Os and all those who love justice and especially those who have fought so hard for justice for those who had no one else to fight for them, e.g., Caylee and Natalee.

Tylergal,  Please come back and post often!

You are missed by many including me.

[Tamikosmom]

HT Carpe



Where is Carpe?  I hope he's not over in Chatter&GrumblerLand !  If he is, somebody seriously drugged him and took him to a place he would never go on his own!  I'd like to know what Carpe would have to say about the revelations concerning the Persistence; but I bet it might curl my ears.  I miss him.

 

 

I believe that many Monkeys who are at CnG will come to the realization that all is not what it seems in the Land of OZ and ... will return to the cage.

A1 came home.

Janet

++++++

A1 ... I meant why were you a member of a forum the bashed Scared Monkeys ... bashed Klaas ... bashed those that were attempting to expose the truth ... according to Kyle Kingman's own words ... encompassing John Silvetti's betrayal of Natalee Holloway's family.

Why did you have to be banned prior to leaving?

A1 ... you know I love ya.  I just do not understand.

Janet

Gosh Janet, I dont know how to answer that.  That's why I havent said anything.  I truly thought the people who invited me there cared about me, I had talked to them on the phone, been invited to their homes.....Im sorry, I dont know how to answer that.  I love children, I want them found and brought home.  Thats why Im here, that's why I was there......that's the only answer I can give you.

[Vicki]

 

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT...IT DOES!!!
Justice for Natalee Holloway
Peace for her family and loved ones

Thank you Sharon for this...Isnt this why we are all here almost 4 years later???? PRAY for the boycotters this weekend in ST LOUIS....They are standing up for JUSTICE and Natalee...

[Ree]

VMS, I speak for only myself, but I personally don't care what Kermit's occupation is.  IMO the emails she posted speak for themselves.  I have no problem with any of the emails posted, but I do take issue with the crap SS posted yesterday.

[Tamikosmom]

I agree, but I think it is more like ALL of them instead of just "some". These are not bad people ( they want justice for Natalee - just like us). I think they have been horribly mislead.

Misled or not.  They cannot be given a free pass.  Bottom Line:  They are indirectly  participants in John Silvette's betrayal to the family of Natalee Holloway.

I cannot comprehend the mentality.  All those who now upholding John Silvetti, Kyle Kingman or Tim Trahan would be taking an entirely different position if there had been a possibility that their loved one could have been in that trap/cage.  I believe condemnation would be where it was at if ... the opportunity to bring their loved one home may have been lost forever.

Janet

____

REMINDER:

THE PERSISTENCE DECEPTION - JOHN SILVETTI


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle:  John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle:   He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle:   The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.
 
Kyle:  They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle: Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days. (05/08/08)

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that. (06/10/08)

BUMP

In my own opinion the Persistence must remain of great interest to the search for JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!We will never know what was in that trap because of John Silvetti in my opinion.If you can't deduce that logically from Kyle's own words i'm sorry!Just my opinion.


KEEPTHEFAITH

Keepthefaith ... we are ... as "Anne of Green Gables" would say ... kindred spirits!!

Janet

[Anna]

Does anyone know if any divers dived on any of the other targets, those other than the fish trap that only ALE had access to?

I don't mean with the ROV camera but actual live divers.

[SS]

VMS, I speak for only myself, but I personally don't care what Kermit's occupation is.  IMO the emails she posted speak for themselves.  I have no problem with any of the emails posted, but I do take issue with the crap SS posted yesterday.

Ree - I have presented facts.  Please check your facts.  I have not posted emails.  If you will check back through the threads, you will see that each of these statements are directly from posts made on SM in the NAH thread.  These are not emails.  I do not post emails.  These are SM discussions.

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #796 1/27/09 -
« Reply #440 on: January 29, 2009, 12:51:17 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
January 6, 2009

Lifesong:
Kermit -

While you're here....

I think you may have missed this from a post I made on 12/18. The sentiments are important to me, so I've copied them over:


Quote

<snipped>

4. Kermit - Thank you for your service to our country. I mean it, Thank You. Thank you for your sacrifice, your dedication, and your hard work throughout the course of your career. Every president we elect is my president. Thanks also on behalf of my 12 year old daughter for continuing to break down and hold open the doors for women to advance professionally. Equality is still elusive, but you've made lasting contributions and that should also be acknowledged.

No response necessary, dear frog, just thank you!! (Monkey Wink)



Kermit:
Oh my goodness. Thank you. I had not seen that post. I'm humbled and I thank you for saying that. It means a lot.

January 02, 2009

ldstlou:
another legit question...so you were secret service...and you "took down" the president you were working for? Can you explain how


Kermit:
No I won't explain it to you because it's not relevant to Bringing Natalee Home.
A picture is worth a thousand words though.

January 3, 2009

Kermit wrote"
Good night monkeys, the pond awaits me tired frog legs.

I hope the posts help to clear up anything that may not be very clear up till now.

Thank you for your support Monkeys.
Thank you for the kind words.
Thank you for making me laugh when I wanted to .....well you know.

And thank you Patriot for your kind words, it touched my heart. It really did, in ways you don't know.
I've done a lot for our country, fighting the bad guys and exposing the truth you are the first person who said that to me. Means a lot. Thank you very much.

 "I can only tell you from my own experience, it's not like I knew what Kenneth Starr was going to do next"

[Anna]

Does anyone have any information that anyone other than ALE had actual access and took samples of the contents of the fish trap shown on Dateline?

Any clue at all that this was not the case?

[Anna]

So posting what you think is someone's life history/personal information and that of their children is OK but posting emails is not?

I think posting personal information is much worse, IMO.

It is the words of OE that create the problem, not who posted them.  Most of what was posted was also posted here in this forum.  We just didn't pay that much attention at the time except for a few alert monkeys.

[Tamikosmom]

So I am gathering that SS believes that Kermit was NOT an agent???

FTR, the pictures Kermit posted are not pictures of a Secret Service agent, FBI agent, CIA agent, or any other kind of agent.

vms

What has Kermit's personal life have to do with the topic at hand ... Kyle Kingman's own words ... words that expose John Silvetti's betrayal to the family of Natalee Holloway ... words that imply that the opportunity to bring an American citizen home to rest on US soil was forever lost?

In a nutshell!  Kermit shared posts that Kyle Kingman submitted to the Natalee's Freebirds' site and ... the former administration (jen) of the Natalee's Freebirds' site confirmed those posts.

Janet

+++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:[/b]  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle:  John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle:   He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle:   The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.
 
Kyle:  They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle: Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days. (05/08/08)

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that. (06/10/08)

[sharon]

So posting what you think is someone's life history/personal information and that of their children is OK but posting emails is not?

I think posting personal information is much worse, IMO.

It is the words of OE that create the problem, not who posted them.  Most of what was posted was also posted here in this forum.  We just didn't pay that much attention at the time except for a few alert monkeys.

I'm beginning to think we need a different thread for the moaners and the groaners to attack our posters on. It would help keep the focus on Natalee in this one. imo

It's not like our attacked posters can 'take the fight' over there 


Anna -- iirc -- the remaining 100+ targets were spotted (technical, aren't I) and then had ROV dives -- prior to being determined 'viable'.

None of them had live divers as the company apparently only had enough money to identify them as 'viable'.

Janet, or one of our much more organized than I Monkeys, can probably find a few quotes to that effect. Posted here, as well as some posts from BFN

[Keepthefaith]

Goood Morning Monkeys!The discredit Kermit campaign has started quite early this morning!

I'll ask again but i'm sure i'll get no answer again!Who is copying and pasting for CnG today??

[Keepthefaith]

So I am gathering that SS believes that Kermit was NOT an agent???

FTR, the pictures Kermit posted are not pictures of a Secret Service agent, FBI agent, CIA agent, or any other kind of agent.

vms

What has Kermit's personal life have to do with the topic at hand ... Kyle Kingman's own words ... words that expose John Silvetti's betrayal to the family of Natalee Holloway ... words that imply that the opportunity to bring an American citizen home to rest on US soil was forever lost?

In a nutshell!  Kermit shared posts that Kyle Kingman submitted to the Natalee's Freebirds' site and ... the former administration (jen) of the Natalee's Freebirds' site confirmed those posts.

Janet

+++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:[/b]  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle:  John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle:   He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle:   The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.
 
Kyle:  They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle: Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days. (05/08/08)

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that. (06/10/08)

Great question Janet.It doesn't!The statements made by Kyle,as well as the Persistence are what they are.Not one person can change,manipulate,and or misconstrue what Kyle said!

[Lifesong]

I'm about to leave for the office, but I have a question and will check back later to hopefully see an answer.  It's a serious question, I'm not being nasty.  If the answer purports to go to credibility, I'll consider that BS.  IMO, Kermit's credibility was earned from the documentation of facts and is not dependent on gender or occupation so that just doesn't hold water. 


Can someone please explain to me what Kermit's gender or occupation has to do with Natalee Holloway, her vicious murder, and the government-sanctioned coverup thereof?

 
It just seems to me that good people are letting themselves be used as pawns to serve the purpose of some ex-monkey's twisted internet power-trip in trying to create a forum war and it has very, very little to do with the Natalee and/or her family.  Maybe if I can get a clear answer to this question I won't feel this way anymore.

Anyone?  Anyone?

[ldstlou]

I'm about to leave for the office, but I have a question and will check back later to hopefully see an answer.  It's a serious question, I'm not being nasty.  If the answer purports to go to credibility, I'll consider that BS.  IMO, Kermit's credibility was earned from the documentation of facts and is not dependent on gender or occupation so that just doesn't hold water. 


Can someone please explain to me what Kermit's gender or occupation has to do with Natalee Holloway, her vicious murder, and the government-sanctioned coverup thereof?

 
It just seems to me that good people are letting themselves be used as pawns to serve the purpose of some ex-monkey's twisted internet power-trip in trying to create a forum war and it has very, very little to do with the Natalee and/or her family.  Maybe if I can get a clear answer to this question I won't feel this way anymore.

Anyone?  Anyone?

walk away Lisa...walk away from the key board!! lol
You know this one will get you into deep sheet!!

See that!! I am being good today!! )

[Magnolia]

Does anyone know if any divers dived on any of the other targets, those other than the fish trap that only ALE had access to?

I don't mean with the ROV camera but actual live divers.

I remember Kyle saying that they were going to fly in a team of
divers to dive on the other sites because Tim Traham was the
only diver they had on the Persistence and he had left.
Then Kyle said that the Persistence was not the right boat
for diving and they needed a much smaller boat.
That is about when they all left Aruba. 

[2NJSons_Mom]

So posting what you think is someone's life history/personal information and that of their children is OK but posting emails is not?

I think posting personal information is much worse, IMO.

It is the words of OE that create the problem, not who posted them.  Most of what was posted was also posted here in this forum.  We just didn't pay that much attention at the time except for a few alert monkeys.

I'm beginning to think we need a different thread for the moaners and the groaners to attack our posters on. It would help keep the focus on Natalee in this one. imo
It's not like our attacked posters can 'take the fight' over there 


Anna -- iirc -- the remaining 100+ targets were spotted (technical, aren't I) and then had ROV dives -- prior to being determined 'viable'.

None of them had live divers as the company apparently only had enough money to identify them as 'viable'.

Janet, or one of our much more organized than I Monkeys, can probably find a few quotes to that effect. Posted here, as well as some posts from BFN

Somehow, I doubt that a separate thread would be utilized as described and would overflow back to here, but I do agree that this thread has become a place where amicable discussion or debate regarding Natalee's case has been compromised.