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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #796 1/27/09 - 1/30/09  (Read 219682 times)
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Lifesong
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« Reply #920 on: January 30, 2009, 12:05:24 PM »

Does anyone know if any divers dived on any of the other targets, those other than the fish trap that only ALE had access to?

I don't mean with the ROV camera but actual live divers.

I remember Kyle saying that they were going to fly in a team of
divers to dive on the other sites because Tim Traham was the
only diver they had on the Persistence and he had left.
Then Kyle said that the Persistence was not the right boat
for diving and they needed a much smaller boat.
That is about when they all left Aruba. 


But....but....

Didn't Jossy say his son was on the Persistence every day?  And don't we know he's a diver?

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Magnolia
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« Reply #921 on: January 30, 2009, 12:10:12 PM »

Does anyone know if any divers dived on any of the other targets, those other than the fish trap that only ALE had access to?

I don't mean with the ROV camera but actual live divers.

I remember Kyle saying that they were going to fly in a team of
divers to dive on the other sites because Tim Traham was the
only diver they had on the Persistence and he had left.
Then Kyle said that the Persistence was not the right boat
for diving and they needed a much smaller boat.
That is about when they all left Aruba. 


But....but....

Didn't Jossy say his son was on the Persistence every day?  And don't we know he's a diver?



I think that they were talking of American divers, but I could be wrong.
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Anna
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« Reply #922 on: January 30, 2009, 12:12:33 PM »


.
Anyone??  Anyone??  Ferris?  Ferris Buehler?

 
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Anna
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« Reply #923 on: January 30, 2009, 12:14:04 PM »



I would like to know if ANY diver of any nationality was allowed to dive on the trap and take samples, any one that did not dive from and return to the ALE police boat.  Anyone who took samples that were not given directly to ALE and only to ALE.

For me, that's the problem.

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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Keepthefaith
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« Reply #924 on: January 30, 2009, 12:16:52 PM »

vms, I saw you trying to discredit Kermit before he posted
any of the information that Kyle had posted at Freebirds.
Did you draw the short straw today to come and bash
Kermit?
It doesn't change Kyle's words and his failure to act
in Natalee's best interest.


 
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #925 on: January 30, 2009, 12:18:34 PM »



I would like to know if ANY diver of any nationality was allowed to dive on the trap and take samples, any one that did not dive from and return to the ALE police boat.  Anyone who took samples that were not given directly to ALE and only to ALE.

For me, that's the problem.



Would you not bring more divers down there to begin with for the potential that you may need to dive on more then one target?
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #926 on: January 30, 2009, 12:21:15 PM »

PRIVATE EYE

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


In terms of fixing a game.Isn't a game fixed before it starts?
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Magnolia
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« Reply #927 on: January 30, 2009, 12:25:23 PM »



I would like to know if ANY diver of any nationality was allowed to dive on the trap and take samples, any one that did not dive from and return to the ALE police boat.  Anyone who took samples that were not given directly to ALE and only to ALE.

For me, that's the problem.



According to Kyle...NO.  The Aruban divers came in their own boat
and retreived the contents of the cage directly to their own boat.
However, we know that Tim Trahan did dive on the site and give
the thumbs down signal.
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jen3560
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« Reply #928 on: January 30, 2009, 12:25:38 PM »

Does anyone know if any divers dived on any of the other targets, those other than the fish trap that only ALE had access to?

I don't mean with the ROV camera but actual live divers.

Anna,

Nothing that I have read/seen/been told indicates there was ever any other personnel dives on anything.
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always 1
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« Reply #929 on: January 30, 2009, 12:26:25 PM »

Sea Monkey, I see you up there, was reading here yesterday and wondered if you got tossed as well, (you dont have to answer)
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Anna
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« Reply #930 on: January 30, 2009, 12:28:15 PM »

PRIVATE EYE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


In terms of fixing a game.Isn't a game fixed before it starts?


I would think so.  It is hard to fix a game in mid point.  But in this instance, I am not so sure this is not what happened.  Originally the search was only going to be for 2 to 3 weeks.  What happened to cause it to be prolonged for such a long time?  Did something happen to change the original intent of the search or what?  From 2 weeks to 4 months is a tremendous change of plans.  What brought this about exactly?

Or was that the intent all along?  I don't know.  I also don't knnow who or what determined the length of the search but do know that donations were being solicitated even as they were packing up and leaving and the abrupt departure was not expected.

.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
jen3560
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« Reply #931 on: January 30, 2009, 12:30:27 PM »

PRIVATE EYE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


In terms of fixing a game.Isn't a game fixed before it starts?


I would think so.  It is hard to fix a game in mid point.  But in this instance, I am not so sure this is not what happened.  Originally the search was only going to be for 2 to 3 weeks.  What happened to cause it to be prolonged for such a long time?  Did something happen to change the original intent of the search or what?  From 2 weeks to 4 months is a tremendous change of plans.  What brought this about exactly?

Or was that the intent all along?  I don't know.  I also don't knnow who or what determined the length of the search but do know that donations were being solicitated even as they were packing up and leaving and the abrupt departure was not expected.

.

From what Kyle told us - the reason the project was extended was AFTER they found the cage, Richardson encouraged them to explore further out, in deeper waters.

Silvetti immediately followed that direction, abandonded the cage, and began mapping searching out in deeper waters.
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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #932 on: January 30, 2009, 12:32:18 PM »



I would like to know if ANY diver of any nationality was allowed to dive on the trap and take samples, any one that did not dive from and return to the ALE police boat.  Anyone who took samples that were not given directly to ALE and only to ALE.

For me, that's the problem.



Caps posted a rebuttal to Kermit on Dec. 3, 2008 and stated that he'd been to the cage site the week before.  How he or anyone else outside of ALE or Persistence crew would know where it was is a question.  Whether anything was taken or touched in the past year, before or during the search another question.

Caps post, here, midway on the page:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838;topicseen#msg564838
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #933 on: January 30, 2009, 12:33:54 PM »

PRIVATE EYE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


In terms of fixing a game.Isn't a game fixed before it starts?


I would think so.  It is hard to fix a game in mid point.  But in this instance, I am not so sure this is not what happened.  Originally the search was only going to be for 2 to 3 weeks.  What happened to cause it to be prolonged for such a long time?  Did something happen to change the original intent of the search or what?  From 2 weeks to 4 months is a tremendous change of plans.  What brought this about exactly?

Or was that the intent all along?  I don't know.  I also don't knnow who or what determined the length of the search but do know that donations were being solicitated even as they were packing up and leaving and the abrupt departure was not expected.

.

For me it is all very suspect.Not physically diving on targets,One diver on the Persistence(was that for show?),Soliciting donations when your not searching(i mean mapping the floor) anymore,and the Grand Finale of allowing the ALE to confiscate the remains of the cage without any regards for CHAIN OF CUSTODY!

KEEPTHEFAITH
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« Reply #934 on: January 30, 2009, 12:36:38 PM »



I would like to know if ANY diver of any nationality was allowed to dive on the trap and take samples, any one that did not dive from and return to the ALE police boat.  Anyone who took samples that were not given directly to ALE and only to ALE.

For me, that's the problem.



Caps posted a rebuttal to Kermit on Dec. 3, 2008 and stated that he'd been to the cage site the week before.  How he or anyone else outside of ALE or Persistence crew would know where it was is a question.  Whether anything was taken or touched in the past year, before or during the search another question.

Caps post, here, midway on the page:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838;topicseen#msg564838

If CapsLockWizard truly had Natalee's best interest at heart don't you think he would have taken a underwater camera,as well as photographs of the cage?
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Anna
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« Reply #935 on: January 30, 2009, 12:39:38 PM »

Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”


Did Kyle say the above or not?
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« Reply #936 on: January 30, 2009, 12:43:30 PM »



I would like to know if ANY diver of any nationality was allowed to dive on the trap and take samples, any one that did not dive from and return to the ALE police boat.  Anyone who took samples that were not given directly to ALE and only to ALE.

For me, that's the problem.



Caps posted a rebuttal to Kermit on Dec. 3, 2008 and stated that he'd been to the cage site the week before.  How he or anyone else outside of ALE or Persistence crew would know where it was is a question.  Whether anything was taken or touched in the past year, before or during the search another question.

Caps post, here, midway on the page:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838;topicseen#msg564838


Yes, that is an interesting post, 2 NJ.  I wonder why Caps would bother to go there and dive in 90 ft of water if he thought Natalee had been cut up in little pieces and placed all over the island.

Maybe he will come on an post an answer to that as I am sure others wonder as well.

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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
sharon
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« Reply #937 on: January 30, 2009, 12:43:31 PM »



I would like to know if ANY diver of any nationality was allowed to dive on the trap and take samples, any one that did not dive from and return to the ALE police boat.  Anyone who took samples that were not given directly to ALE and only to ALE.

For me, that's the problem.



Caps posted a rebuttal to Kermit on Dec. 3, 2008 and stated that he'd been to the cage site the week before.  How he or anyone else outside of ALE or Persistence crew would know where it was is a question.  Whether anything was taken or touched in the past year, before or during the search another question.

Caps post, here, midway on the page:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838;topicseen#msg564838

I was always curious as to how he new EXACTLY where to dive for the cage

It's a pretty big ocean out there. 

Or is this the newest 'dive spot' ??
.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #938 on: January 30, 2009, 12:43:42 PM »



I would like to know if ANY diver of any nationality was allowed to dive on the trap and take samples, any one that did not dive from and return to the ALE police boat.  Anyone who took samples that were not given directly to ALE and only to ALE.

For me, that's the problem.



According to Kyle...NO.  The Aruban divers came in their own boat
and retreived the contents of the cage directly to their own boat.
However, we know that Tim Trahan did dive on the site and give
the thumbs down signal.


Considering Beth Holloway and the FBI have received from the Natalee's Freebirds all of the info that Kyle Kingman shared in his own words regarding John Silvetti's participation in the finale' to the great Aruba coverup ... I would assume that any investigation by the FBI that is going on behind the sences would dictate that both Kyle Kingman and Tim Trahan are questioned.

Tim Tehran is the key to exposing with certainty this entire conspiracy.  I do not think for one moment that Tim would be in negotiations with major networks if he could not back up the ROV images with a first hand account of what he observed in that December 30, 2008 dive.

This is why Louis Shaeffer (ROV copyright), Kyle Kingsman (ROV analyst) and Tim Tahran (diver) are thisclose in regards to the network negotiations.

Obviously, Tim Trahan did not anticipate the leak of the ROV images on the internet by Kyle Kingman when he stated following the December 30, 2008 dive that there was "nothing" in the trap/cage.

Then when you stop and consider Tim Trahan, Kyle Kingman and Louis Shaefer's attempts at major network deals ... logic dictates Trahan was not being truthful there was "something" in that cage/trap.

Janet
_______


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:
On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John is left out of the loop.


The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008


On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.

The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat)

Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap.

They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.

The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap.

The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat)

No it's thumbs down.

Negative, not it.

Crushing disppointment.

(On the boat)

Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/
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jen3560
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« Reply #939 on: January 30, 2009, 12:43:50 PM »

Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”


Did Kyle say the above or not?

He absolutely did.
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